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Inflation is upon us, and probably here to stay. You can look at this as a negative or see it as an opportunity. It’s all about how you position your business for the future. Join us for a conversation with Spencer Powel from Builder Funnel Academy.

Show highlights include:

  • Why treating your services like products makes it easier to raise your prices alongside inflation (5:47) 
  • How to make your construction business more profitable while accepting less projects and bringing in less revenue (6:28) 
  • The counterintuitive reason scaling your business can make you less profitable (7:15) 
  • How to fend off inflationary periods (without raising your prices) (9:11)
  • It’s uncomfortable to tell your clients about price increases but it is a conversation that has to happen. You need to keep your business financially sound and profitable (12:50)
  • The “Selfishness Secret” that provides more value to your customers and allows you to charge more (13:35) 
  • The “pricing into the future” model for to beat inflation (16:20) 
  • How remote work creates a massive opportunity for your construction business (24:36) 

If you’d like to chat with Spencer and see how his team can turn your website into a lead generation machine, go to https://builderfunnel.com

To get the most out of this podcast, or connect with Duane and Dave, head over to https://buildernuggets.com and join our active community of like-minded builders and remodelers.

Read Full Transcript

So I sat there and I thought to myself, wow, what an impact, not smiling had

Welcome to builder nuggets hosted by Dwayne Johns and Dave young. Hey, our mission is simple, build freedom. We are a couple of entrepreneurs turned business coaches who have dedicated ourselves to helping our builder remodeler clients create the most rewarding businesses in the industry. My co-host Dwayne has been a successful builder and remodeler for over 30 years. He's seen the highs and the lows. From the beginning though, Dwayne has been on a quest to find a better way to run a contracting business. In 2016, he found that better way. That's how I met Dave, a lifelong entrepreneur and visionary who measures his success by the success of those around him. He reached out one day with a formula on how to transform my business and the rest is history. Since then, we've teamed up to help hundreds of contractors like you build better businesses and better lives. Now we've decided to open up our network and share our secrets so we can start moving the needle with you. It's collaboration over competition. Each week, we bring together industry peers and experts who share their stories so that we can all build freedom together.

(01:06): Many of you are familiar with today's guest. He has proven his expertise by helping hundreds of builders or modelers and contractors in the USA and Canada generate leads and close more sales by using the power of their own online presence. He joined us on episode 46 and shared some strategies and tactics for online. My marketing that have helped hundreds of builders and remodelers turn their websites into lead generating machines that work 24 7. It's my pleasure to welcome fellow podcaster and founder of builder funnel academy, back to the builder nuggets community. Welcome Spencer. Hey, thanks guys. Glad to be here. Yeah, man. Thanks for taking the time. It's always great to have y'all on, but listening to some of your stuff as well. So for the listeners, our builder nuggets listeners out there, maybe just give 'em a quick little recap of who you are, what you do and what you've been up to since we spoke LA back in the fall. Yeah. quick rundown. My family's been in residential construction for 110 years out in the Seattle market. And I got a into this this wacky world of construction from the digital marketing side in 2010, helped my uncles go from 2 million to 12 or 10 million in four years, their remodeling division. And we just said, Hey, let's go help some more people grow and figure out the whole digital marketing thing. So built an agency around that and, and been doing that for 12 years now.

(02:25): Yeah, since we last spoke, we actually made a couple of big shifts in our business. One just helping people really focus on strategy versus just jumping right to tactics. And so we're super excited about that. Just getting people, thinking more long term building systems, putting together a framework and not just like throw own a bunch of stuff at the, the marketing wall and then building community, you know, like we've got so many big challenges going on right now. We've got the answers out there, but we gotta pull 'em together and we gotta crowdsource that a little bit. So we're excited to just be kind of fostering and developing that as well. Yeah. That's cool stuff. You're talking our language here. I mean, we talk a lot about strategy and having plans in place before you just kind of dive into anything, whatever aspect that might be in your business.

(03:09): That's that's important. You and I had spoke a little while ago and around, well, I think we probably bounced a dozen or more top off that we could dive into, but the one that both of us sort of landed on was, you know, the last few years have really been like no other. When I look back at construction, I mean, I've been in construction 30 plus years. Yeah. We've had COVID, we've had some other things, but I, in a way I feel this is some uncharted territory. I mean, I think inflation is probably here to stay and I don't think, I don't think you could even say that since maybe the seventies, you know, that inflation is really that much of a, a, a, an issue material shortages, you know, labor struggles that stuff's not going away yet at the same time demand is through roof.

(03:53): And there's probably gonna be a ton of other post COVID factors. But I think, you know, the big thing is, yeah, these things are key year and we can all look at these as man. These are monumental challenges or you could spin 'em into an opportunity, you know? So what, from your perspective, what, what's your view on that? I get really into this topic of like inflation and, and and how it's impacting our businesses and our industry, but also just from like a personal standpoint, I'm big in, into like investing in wealth building and, you know, that sort of bucket and personal finance, and then obviously run and operate my own business. And so I think like looking at the, at that blend and trying to find like the opportunities there, I mean, a few things that, that I've been thinking a lot about is when you think about, you know, the, the businesses that we're all in, you know, they're very project heavy, they're very labor intensive, you know, supply intensive, all these kind of things.

(04:50): There's a lot of risk, right. And, and you carry a lot of sometimes financial burden, you know, depending on your billing structure and all that kind of stuff. So if, if you're running for some good you years, I, I think a general strategy to think about is like taking chips off the table and putting those into other productive assets, whether that's, you know, real estate or stock market or crypto, or, you know, whatever you're into, but things that are gonna help hedge against inflation or protect you, or even benefit, like we've all seen an anybody that owns their own home. Or if you have some rental properties, you know, I've seen all of those just balloon in the last two years. And it's just cuz you're riding, you know, the inflation train. So I think about those types of things, just from like a very macro, like I have a business and I'm trying to build time freedom in my life.

(05:37): Like what should I be thinking about? And then kind of just like in the weeds on the business, this side, it's funny because I feel like you look at like products, you go to the grocery store and you're like, I've got, I'm buying Coke and chicken and you know, whatever, all my normal stuff, like those guys are all raising their prices. Right. And they're not up 7.5%, they're up 40%. They're up a hundred percent, you know, and we just do it, right? Like we just go there and we buy it cuz we need it. And we have to, but for whatever reason, when it comes to services, we're all hesitant to raise our prices. But we have to do the same thing. Like our labor costs are going up. Obviously our material costs are going up, so we to move those up. But like when you've got a supply and demand ratio, like we have now high, high demand, low supply, you can justify those prices too.

(06:26): And that's how you remain hyper profitable. And so I think we need to just remove some of the fear of around raising prices and recognize that like, yeah, you might turn away some projects, but like, Hey, if you do the same revenue, but you're four times as profitable, you're gonna be much happier. You know? So those are just some initial thoughts. Like kick it off, I guess can either look at that as you know, it's pretty black and white. Do you exhaust all your energy on trying to, you know, stay what you think is competitive and land every job, losing money or dial it back a little bit, really focus on it. Think about, yes, I do have to raise my prices. This is justified. Run it through your, your accounting systems, figure out what's what, like you said, and end up in a, in a more stress, free, more profitable environment.

(07:11): I think that is tremendous advice. Yeah. And I mean, I, I talk to somebody last year and they were wrapping up the year and they were, they were do, they were gonna do 5 million. And I think that was like significant growth over the prior year where they were, you know, three and a half or something like that. They broke even, right? Like man, what a bummer that you, you like growing is tough. It takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of work. You're scaling, you're training people. You're, you know, dealing with more projects than you're used to. You're trying to figure out, you know, all the supply chain issues that we've had and then to come out break and even like, I, I just, I don't wanna see that, you know, so I want, I'm trying to encourage people like raise those prices, raise them aggressively.

(07:58): And if you start getting more OS and you're really starting to feel like you're slowing your business down or like you're not landing any projects, like now you kind of know where the wall is, but I don't think most people are doing that. Right. Like we're not all pushing the limits and you don't have to push it all the way to that point. So, no, and like I said, I mean, I think that's the thing that I don't wanna say concerns me because is it's more a matter of just being very proactive and looking at what's coming. But I mean, I don't think that the vast majority of builders or modelers out there have really ever seen a length or, or drawn out inflationary period. It just hasn't even been in our overall economy for close to 40 years, you know, but I, I do honestly think, I think it's here to stay.

(08:38): I don't think the level of rise, I don't think the inflation's gonna to go up like it has over the last couple years, but I don't see it going, you know, turning around and becoming deflationary. I think things are just gonna continue to cost more and more. So what kind of things specifically on that, in on an inflation topic, do you think that builders really should be thinking out? Obviously we stated one, you know, raising prices, but what do you think? I mean, what other things do you think we need to as builders, remodelers be focused on business owners here. I mean, when you've gotten inflationary environment and if you think about what that means is just means like, Hey, the value of the dollar is going down compared to the supply of goods and services, right. That are out there. So, Hey, if we have the same supply of builders and remodelers that we did two years ago, roughly the same number of businesses serving all of these people, even if demand stayed the same, we've got, had all of this money printing and it is been a lot in the last two years, but it's really been, you know, since the great recession, it's been like 10 or 12 years of stimulus at different times.

(09:45): And, and so you look at the devalue of the dollar, like your prices have to go up no matter what, even if you don't have excess demand or a, a favorable ratio between demand and supply. And so that's what I really look at is okay, like if the value of the, the dollars going down, that just means it's gonna take more dollars to buy the same thing. And that's why we're paying more at the gas pump in the grocery store and all that. And then the other thing to think about too is, you know, wages, you know, and that you've got for your team in addition to the cost of raw materials. And so on the wage side, you know, people are expecting raises and if inflation used to be two or 3%, and now it's seven and a half, you know, you're going, okay.

(10:33): So if my, you know, my payroll needs a to go up by 8% or 10% this year, what does that mean? And, and all of the answers kind of drive towards like, you have to raise prices or you have to get more efficient and, and then, you know, jam more dollars into the same time and like efficiency can be gained, but where there isn't heavy use of like technology and AI and automation yet in automation, like those things drive efficiency. But right now for us, the, I think the, the playbook is raised prices because you look at an iPhone and you're going, yeah, an iPhone's expensive, what, 1500 bucks or two grand for like this thing. But it's like it replaced a video camera, a phone, you know, storage, a music player. Like if you added up all those individual items, it would be way more than the cost of the phone.

(11:30): And so efficiency actually drove the price down into one item, but like we're not really building that type of efficiency in yet. So the other things of, you know, constantly being vigilant around with, with your trades, your sub suppliers, knowing what's going on, communicating that stuff to your homeowners, not getting caught in a position where, you know, you said one thing and it turned out to be another, you know, that's, in some cases we all know cultures are changing on a 24 hour basis. So, you know, you have to stay on top of that. And that probably will begin to settle down towards the end of this year. But, you know, when it comes to raising prices, I mean, I, you think, as you said earlier, you know, there's, there's people that are, their prices are going up double, triple digit percentages, and here we are going well, do I raise my markup?

(12:10): You know, do I raise my margin? You almost feel like you're limited into what you can do about it. And I think you've gotta think about everything you gotta think about your hourly rates for all your employees. You gotta really be making sure you're capturing as best possible whatever model you might fall on, but try to make sure you're getting paid for all of the billable time, you know, for everybody in your company. And yeah, the focus on origins, I mean, but you know, the flip side to that is, you know, it's gonna be time to provide more value to the client. You know, the clients are gonna start to challenge all of us probably more and more on these prices. You can sit here and point the figure, all these other reasons. It's still gonna come back to the contractor, sitting at the table, trying to sign the contract with the homeowner.

(12:50): You know, you're just more expensive, even all these other things, maybe expensive. So yeah, I mean, I, I agree. Have you seen in some folks or builders you you've talked with, have you seen struggles in their ability to, to raise prices or J is it just a matter of being uncomfortable in raising the price? Good question. I, and honestly the, the sense and the vibes I'm getting is it's, it's more just uncomfortable cause yeah, because if you think about like milk doubling and it's like two to $4, but you think about a kitchen remodel doubling, and it's like 50 grand to a hundred grand, like that's a different conversation that you're having with somebody. And so, you know, or, or the price of a new home, you know, and we've seen those go up, you know, big numbers too. And so I, I think they're is a level of discomfort and being like, yeah, whenever I quoted this for the past four years, it was always like in this range.

(13:41): And, and now it has to be like way more than that. And that feels maybe a little bit like you're sticking it to the customer and you don't wanna be that person. You know, usually it comes from a place of goodheartedness. I feel like, you know, cuz you're like, Hey, I'm looking out for the customer. And I would argue that you need to look out for yourself so that you can take great care of the customer. Because if you're, if you've got razor thin margins, you're gonna deliver a bad experience. Like you're not gonna, you know, wanna be at the job site all the time. Like you're not gonna, you know, you're cuz you're gonna be squeezing, you know, you your see there. And so I, I think you hit on the few things is like, what's your overhead looking? Like, what is your, what are the actual prices looking like right now?

(14:24): And then how did you quote the job? Did you quote it with the right margin in there? You know, and if you're running off of, depending on how I know everyone does it differently, you know, some people look at markup and and all those different things, but if you're using percentages, like it should hold, you know, as long as you're using you, you've got your inputs. Correct. So it can't just be as simple as saying, oh, well I'll raise my mark up a little bit. Or, you know, because if you're looking at things right, you should be able to maintain your margins on, on product, on, on, you know, services trades. But you know, you've gotta look at, you've got so many other behind the scenes cost your overhead. Your insurance is probably going higher. Your, you know, your utility bills going higher fuel interest rates are gonna start to kick up hourly RA wages, wages, as I said, and those are just gonna continue to go up.

(15:14): So you gotta make sure that you're covering and more, you don't just wanna, you know, inherently, you're gonna have to make sure you're coming out of this on the plus side, you know, and also hedging for what's gonna happen six months, 12 months from now. So yeah, I mean, I think I definitely encourage folks to go out there, take a hard look at your, at your number. Sit down with your accounting team. If you have one accountant, whatever that might be, you know, and really do a deep dive so that you're not only figuring out what you need to do to in, in some cases probably just get caught up, but get ahead of it. As I said, for the next 12 months or, or beyond other things in this new environment that, that you had mentioned were the shortage of new homes and the demand and, and different ways to capitalize on that.

(15:52): What are you, what are you seeing there? We're millions of homes short, you know, still catching up from the great recession. So if you think about that part of it again, it's a supply demand sort of thing. I mean, we've seen just in our neighborhood, we, we built and finished in April of 21. And just in that same community in a span of 12 months, we saw stuff jumping up like a hundred grand, you know, in terms of a, a price point. And so I feel like there there's a little bit of this. You kind of mentioned it's like pricing in the future. And so if we we've got like, you're going under contract and we obviously all learned that we need to have some clauses in there that if like material costs a skyrocket, like there's, Hey, we're not on the hook for that.

(16:36): We're not going to eat that. But even that aside you look at, okay, by the time I get to production, after I go through design and production, like my trades might be charging more or I might have given my team raises, you know, and that sort of thing. And it, and it could be six or nine months between contract signing. And when you actually start and now your inputs are different. So I think staying pricing in the future is a smart move, but I mean, yeah, just looking at the macro landscape, if you got millions of homes short, it's tough to, you know, people are on wait list for new homes and then they're also, you know, having to wait a long time to get in and then resale is still like bidding wars. So then a lot of people I think are gonna look at okay, do I remodel instead because that whole new construction is, is a nightmare.

(17:23): And so I think the next couple years will be really, really strong for both sides. You know, whether it's new, new construction or remodel. And so the posted of 7.5% cannot be the real number. Like the, if you look at how that number is, like, if you look at how that number is made up and what goes into it, it's like they spot. Yeah. And they'll say things. Yeah. Things like, like, like fuel and food and all the stuff you need every day. Isn't, isn't figured in that number. Right. And so you gotta figure we're closer to like 15, 20%. And so I, I would just get overly aggressive with, with how you're factoring that into what you're doing. And it's really not, I, I don't feel like it's taking advantage of people. It's really just pricing it into the real. And because you said, like you said, this is uncharted territory, it feels weird, but that's literally how capitalism works is there's supply and demand. And if there're low supply and high demand, like price goes way, way up. So, and, and if you, you know, don't don't raise prices or you don't take actions to be a strong company and maintain your margins, you're just, you're gonna end up going outta business. And that doesn't do the client any benefit either. You know, you, everyone's gotta stay in a strong position through this

(18:37): Wanna level up, connect with us to share your stories, ideas, challenges, and successes. The builder nuggets community is built on your experiences. It takes less than a minute to connect with us@buildernuggets.com, Facebook or Instagram Want access to the resources that can take you and your team to the next level. One call could change everything We talked earlier about. You can look at it as a challenger, an opportunity. I mean, it's, it's apparent that the demand at all levels is gonna stay high for the well, the, at least the, the near future. So what do you think are some, some ways people, people can position themselves because obviously you're not just gonna throw this on the table and say, okay, Mr. Homeowner, I've just raised my price is 30%. You know, there's ways that you have to provide value. So what, what, what are some things that a builder remodeler can be doing in their messaging and the way they present stuff to the client that lets them know their, you know, they're advocating for the client, they're trying to make sure they're protecting the client, getting the client the best value. What sort of things do you think they could be thinking about?

(19:38): Yeah, I think it's experience and expectations, you know, so we obviously don't wanna be the, the low cost provider. That's not the game to be in. So we're kind of, we're, we're selling this experience that results in the finished product. And I think there's lots of different things you can do to make it a great experience. And it ties in with the other E which was expectations. So it's like I, I'm a big believer in transparency, so, Hey, Hey, Mr. Homeowner, like this is crazy right now, right? Like lumber prices are all over the board, you know, things are happening, but you know what, like we've navigated the, this the last 18 months. Like here's what we're doing with our clients. We talk about what the price is today. We, you know, when we go to order that we're gonna revisit it with you and, you know, if prices adjusted like, Hey, we might need to spa in some more, if price has gone up, but like, that's something that's out of your control outta my control.

(20:36): It's the environment we're in. I know you, you know, this project's super important to you and it's my job to make sure that we look for the best value in the products it's out of our hands. And we want to get you to the finished end result that you're looking for and just keep you in the loop every step of the way. And like letting 'em know, there's unknowns. Like we can't, we can't lock in these prices cuz if we did like, we'd be outta business. And if we're outta business, like you're halfway through your project and nothing happens. And so like, I don't think there's anything wrong with having some of those honest conversations. And I think that actually builds, builds more credibility and I think it increases your chance of getting the sale. And so I, I know everyone has different levels of what they include in their contracts and all and all that.

(21:23): But I think you can, you can either be a little more vague or a little more specific depending on what you do put into your stuff, but still communicating those overall principles. And, and I think sharing stories of like projects that you have completed during the pandemic and like how it went for customers and like things that you've learned and, and Hey, yeah, we quickly learned that this wasn't gonna work. So now we do X and people are like, oh, they're actually thinking about it. You know? And sometimes it's just basic communication, but I think it, it does come back to a lot of just like expectations. Like this is what it's gonna look like. It's gonna be a little bumpy, but we're gonna make it as smooth as we can for you. I think the savvy homeowners out there, they, they understand this is a pretty uncertain climate we're in.

(22:05): And I think if you're coming to the table as a true professional and giving them some, some real guidance as to where we are being real with them, you know, I think that's what people want right now. I think they really just be straight up and, and let people know what, if something's not available, you have to tell 'em right away. It's not available. Yeah. Tough decisions have to be made from the very beginning position yourself that way. Talk to 'em about the, you know, rising what you're doing as a company to keep yourself, you know, strong and in the game. I mean, that stuff, I think is all really beneficial and gonna set you up for just being able to compete better as, as, as I said, because I, I do believe as we start to continue to move forward, probably towards the end of this year, things are going to tighten up to a certain degree.

(22:45): I think people are going to challenge the cost of everything. Probably it'd be time for all of us to, to work again, to make the sale so to speak. You know, so you, you, you, you better have some tools in your arsenal to, you know, to, to show some value for that client. And as a marketer, like I always think about these types of pieces too. Like these are great videos to put on your website. Like they're great to include in your email, campaigns are going out to prospects. Like if, if you become the educator on what's happening in the market, like we're all like you and I are talking about this. And everyone listening is probably like, yeah, I know there's supply problems. And you know, I know there's, you know, rising costs, but like the clients don't always have their finger on the pulse.

(23:29): Like they're kind of aware, but no, but as soon as you start communicating it, literally you're just transposing what you already know, and you're just punting it out to your customer. And they're like, wow, this, this person really knows what they're talking about. Like, they're on top of the, the industry they know what's going on. And so it's a funny thing, cuz it's just sharing your normal knowledge, but it becomes expert knowledge to them. You know, one of the other things we talked about was this work from home trend that we've seen and how that's changing a little bit of the, the landscape as well. I mean, I think it's changing obviously how people work probably where people live that I've certainly seen that to a pretty extreme degree especially these rural areas are, are just seeing a, a huge uptick in, in interest short term rentals, you know, people being able to work from anywhere.

(24:16): What kind of opportunities is, is that over the next few years for builders remodelers? I mean that may, maybe they're not thinking about now. I think a few for areas. I mean, you're right. I think we have to kind of keep our eye on traffic patterns. Like what, what states are people moving to and which states are they leaving? You know? And you can get a sense for how that's gonna go in terms of the remote work. Yeah. I think like really cool home offices and, you know, home gyms and, you know, creative outdoor spaces and, you know, like even using, you know, positioning yourself that way, like we're, we're, we've recognized that life has changed. And so we're building designs around this new integrated environment. Like maybe it's soundproofing in the office, you know, it's different, you know, knowing that people are working from home or doing school from home or both like, okay, you need to set this up as like home base for everything great.

(25:11): Like here are the things that we're, we're doing and, and talking about. So I think there's like kind of a design angle and just like a understanding like, Hey, this is a big cultural shift that we're seeing. And so how do we how do we be position ourselves as the, the people that are adapting and are on top of that? You mentioned short term rentals. Like I know in the, the investment space, like people are diving into that world in a big, big way. Because yeah, I mean you're typical like tech worker, like they can now just go grab an Airbnb for a month somewhere and then, then go grab Airbnb in a month somewhere else. And, and so targeting the investors might be an opportunity to like, Hey, I'm gonna help you create a space. That's great for, you know people that are actually looking to kind of go somewhere new, but they're really working while they're out there.

(26:05): And so maybe there's an angle there too, but a lot of, a lot of people are diving into investments like that. And so I think there's just gonna be a lot of like remodel and that could be a double. Yeah. That could be an opportunity both ways. As you mentioned earlier to where yes. Maybe from your building remodeling business, that could be a segment of the market that you start to target, you go after. But also that could be sort of a little, whether it's eye hustle or whatever, maybe it's something you think about, like you said, taking some chips off the table and thinking about, Hey, maybe I need to get into some, some other investments. Yeah. I think that demand is gonna continue. They've they've found their freedom through, through being able to do things remotely. There's a lot of folks like that and they've also realized that I can work remotely, but I don't really wanna work remotely from the same place all the time.

(26:51): Yeah. It's a little stale. Yeah. It's a little stale after a while. But on that topic of like taking chips off the table, like yeah, if you, if you gotta while running business, you paying yourself a, a good salary and like you're dropping a hundred, 200, 300 grand to the bottom line. Like why not start buying yourself some freedom? Like, cause really at the end of the day, like when you've got that you got a couple options, like one, you can reinvest it all back into your business to help it grow. You can take it all and just do something fun with it, blow it all. Or you could take all that and go like, yeah, I'm gonna pick up an Airbnb or I'm gonna pick up a long term rental. And now you're actually hedging inflation and you're using your business as like the cash machine.

(27:34): And then you're taking that and putting that into like the wealth building machine. And so tho those are the things I think about too in this environment, which is like, could I take to hundred grand and dump it into growing my business bigger? Yes, of course. And if that's what you wanna do, like go for it. But when you think about all the uncertainty that we have probably coming up over the next 12 to 24 months, I always think about how can we remain maybe a little more lean and mean, and highly profitable and not necessarily trying to just like S scale, scale scale, and be razor thin margins and trying to get from 5 million to 10 million. Yeah. But making the same amount of money, you know? So just food for thought, but those are the types of things I, I think about when you, when you do have kind of a well operating, you know, machine running.

(28:21): Yeah. I, I think this is one of the best, one of the most unique and pro probably most opportunistic times we've ever had in the construction industry and folks might not necessarily see it. Cuz I know that you're just totally overwhelmed right now. You're just trying to keep up with demand. You're slammed, but you've got in, in a sense, you've got a little bit of the upper hand from the, from the sales side of things, you know, with the client side of things demand is high for the most part, most builders I've talked to seem to be doing, you know, pretty well that now's the time as you said, what, what, whatever those investments are, maybe it's a little bit of a reinvesting back in your business. Maybe it's some stuff on the personal side, but I think, I think the overall theme of positioning yourself for the next 12 24, 36 months is really gotta be on your radar.

(29:04): I know it's hard because it's sometimes it's tough to get past this week cuz it's, it's just, there's some chaos going on now. But I mean, I think you really do have to take this opportunity to set yourself up. Cause as you said, I mean what better position than to get yourself in a, to a 0.6 months, a year from now to where you've got even better clients, better projects, even if the revenues, you know, lower the, but the profit's higher, that's a, you know, that's a lot better work environment to be in than to continue the, the nonstop frenzy that, that a lot of us have been in. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm guilty of it too. You know, you get caught up in top line, but at the end of the day, like what you're bringing home is, is what matters, unless you're trying to you exit at some multiple of revenue, which most people in our industry, that's not really what, what we're doing.

(29:52): Although no, and I think you even said it on, on the last podcast, you know, you talked about that, somebody that an example, let's say somebody has gone from 5 million to 10 million in the last two years because of circumstances, you need to be careful if you're trying to maintain that $10 million machine, just from an overhead standpoint, marketing standpoint, all of that, you know, and then all of a sudden things contract a little bit that's hard to, to deal with. So yeah, definitely, definitely be future pacing. Hopefully this like discussion that we're having is a, is kind of good food for thought because when you're in it, like you said, like week to week right now, everyone's just like running and gun and it's, it's so busy and chaotic, but it's usually those during those times where you kind of like, you think it's just gonna be this way forever, even though in your head, you're like, it won't be this way forever, but, but when things are rocking and like demand is so good, you're just like, this is of course this is how it should be.

(30:45): And, and then it just like flips, you know? And you're like, oh, and then you get caught. So yeah. Yeah. Just trying to think two or three, three moves ahead. No, we're big proponents of the lean and mean concept here. No doubt. So yeah, no asset light and cash cash heavy and low heavy. Those are good things. Yeah. It's a good position. Yep. Good position to be in. Thanks Spencer. You know, it's always great having you on and, and love your perspective on stuff. And what's exciting you about the next six months to a year what's going on over at builder funnel. What do you have? What do you have in store? Yeah, I, I really appreciate you having me on, I, I love these discussions and hope is that it just makes people pause and think and plan for their own situation.

(31:27): Like you know, you and I will talk about certain things. We might have certain feelings, but hopefully you take this and you're just like, that was interesting or that was cool. But like in my world I'm gonna do a and B and those will be great for me. And like awesome. Like, you know, your situation the best. So but yeah, builder funnel, I, I I'm super excited for this year, really. Just like I said, at the beginning, like helping people focus more strategically, we take people through a blueprint process and this is something we've been working really, really hard on and we're, we're super pumped about it. We've, we've delivered several of these and gotten really good feedback. And it's more of that. Like, Hey, we're not just planning for, or two, three months down the road. We're looking at, you know, a year, two years, three years.

(32:08): And how do we build the foundation for that? And these times are interesting for us because I would like just transparency. I mentioned, I I'm a big believer in that, like when the industry is suffering, that's when we're the busiest, cuz everyone's running to us cuz they need leads and they wanna hire a marketing company. And right now, like people don't need leads. They need better leads. They need qualification they're. And so really where we're focused on is like, okay, how do we, how do we position you correctly? How do we qualify the best projects? How do we build a system that's gonna basically get you put in place for when things do kinda start to trail off. So we're working with a lot of people that are proactive and that's a more fun place to be planning from is like, I don't need, I'm not desperate today.

(32:53): Cuz a lot of people already kind of know what this year is gonna look like. So my world is like vision and strategy. So this is just like, oh this is exciting. Like we're talking to all the people that are thinking two to three years down the road, that's like, that's a good spot to be and a cool opportunity. That is a fun place to be. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Well that's great man. And for anybody out there that wants to learn some more or find more about you, how can they find you? Yeah. The easiest way is builder funnel.com and you can, you've got tons of resources there and you can hit our contact page if you wanna book a meeting and talk to us or if you just looking for some inspiration, you'll, you'll find plenty of it poking on the site, but builder funnel.com is the easiest way to just connect with us. Sounds good. Well, thanks again man. Appreciate it. This was, this was good stuff. Yeah. Thanks DNE.

Hey, thanks for listening, Dwayne and I love hearing from you. Your stories are inspiring and your challenges can be overcome. Got a cool tip idea for a show problem that you haven't been able to solve, or maybe just struggling to figure out what you need next and where to get it. We can help hit us up@buildernuggets.com and start building freedom.

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