Collaboration over competition as Tom Silva says.
Welcome to builder nuggets hosted by Dwayne Johns and Dave young. Hey, our mission is simple, build freedom. We are a couple of entrepreneurs turned business coaches who have dedicated ourselves to helping our builder remodeler clients create the most rewarding businesses in the industry. My co-host Dwayne has been a successful builder and remodeler for over 30 years. He's seen the highs and the lows. From the beginning though, Dwayne has been on a quest to find a better way to run a contracting business. In 2016, he found that better way. That's how I met Dave, a lifelong entrepreneur and visionary who measures his success by the success of those around him. He reached out one day with a formula on how to transform my business and the rest is history. Since then, we've teamed up to help hundreds of contractors like you build better businesses and better lives. Now we've decided to open up our network and share our secrets so we can start moving the needle with you. It's collaboration over competition. Each week, we bring together industry peers and experts who share their stories so that we can all build freedom together.
(00:01:09): Well, Dave, we did it our first trip around the sun with the builder nuggets podcast. This is episode 52. We've managed to pull off one episode a week for the past year and that's not bad considering we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. Yeah.
(00:01:21): Doing I can't help. But think of the B song I get by with a little help from my friends. We've been fortunate to be connected with some amazing influencers who have had, who have been gracious enough to share their stories with us and get behind the scenes. So thanks. You know, we, we can't do this episode without saying thanks to all the, all the listeners and all the guests who really dug in and took the time to share their stories with us. It's been amazing.
(00:01:49): And I think back all the way to the beginning, when we were starting to put together the pieces of this, what would it look like? And even goes for a lot of things we talk about on this show, when it comes to implement, implementing some change in your business, you know, sometimes you just have to dive into it. We spend a lot of time thinking about what to call it, how, how we were gonna do it. Who's gonna do what and you know what, in the end it just works. And, and I think it works because of the great guests we've had, the collaborators people we've had on the show. It's been fun. I mean, so what do you think, should we keep doing this? Well,
(00:02:16): We're, we're pretty, we're committed now. I would say, you know, we've, we've, we've gotten this far. The tribe has spoken. We've we've been over and humbled by the, by the feedback and response. And it's, you guys have really got us motivated to look at, at what's happening, going forward with builder nuggets. So we're, we've decided to double down in 2022 and in the new year, excited to announce them new initiatives, ways that will help you build more freedom into your lives and elevate your people. Even more, some ways for you to get involved. We're going to be announcing our first events. There'll be spots where we'll be able to get together more often and have more impact with each other. So there may even be some video in our future. A few people have asked for that. So lots of exciting stuff here. That'd be fun to look back at. Talk about maybe some of the things that we noticed about the last year.
(00:03:04): Yeah. I'm looking forward to some of the things we could expand upon and get into next year. But before we do kick off a new season, we have one last show to do here in 2021. This is the last week of the year, it's in the middle of the holiday season. So we thought we'd take a look back at some of the best episodes and nuggets from the past
(00:03:20): Year. Yeah. And again, we really want to thank everyone, including our, our technical team, you know, our supporters behind the, behind the scenes that have really helped to make this thing a success. I mean, we, we get to write a few, few questions and make some phone calls to interview people. And there's a whole bunch of others who really, who really sure that we sound okay. And that that the right stuff is getting out there. But again, thanks to all of you, we're, we're grateful for, for your support.
(00:03:47): So let's kick it off with and a lot of this really just goes back to pure feedback that we got. Obviously we have access to some stats behind the scenes to see what, what people listen to, what's being downloaded. And I think we'll start off with what has been popular with everyone out there. You, the listeners here in nugget nation, one of the first ones, it it's still to this day is very popular, but that was episode 22, the roaring twenties with Connor lo car, very fitting, I think in this topsy turvy world we've been in the last couple of years and in the economy. So, well, it
(00:04:18): It's one that kind of surprised me, cuz I thought, oh, here we are talking with builders and we're gonna go and have this economist on the show. How's it gonna go over? But based on downloads alone, it's the, you know, it's one of the top ranking ones. So it just, it, it proved a few things. It proved that somebody coming in that already had some influence and was known in the community can help to advance your audience and, and increase your or listenership. But also it, it provided proof that, you know, at that time, nobody knew what was gonna happen with the economy. So having a real expert, a timely expert come in that's key. And it was just a, a really well, well timed to have a guest like Cony. So, so well spoken. I think a couple of the takeaways for me from that episode were stop waiting for the purple unicorn, you know, waiting for everything to line up perfectly. I think we got into golden retriever puppies there too. Did we not Dwayne? We
(00:05:13): Absolutely did. I mean, I think it was, it was really cool to talk to someone that was, you know, in a way outside of our industry, he wasn't really totally focused on construction. That's not what he does, but he is involved in the economy and we're all a part of that to some degree. And I think it was good, you know, that the big takeaway there being that we've had some tumultuous times, things are up and down for the most part, pretty good strength probably with us, for the remain of this, this decade, but the you know, the, the make hay, while the sunshine here, the 2020s, cuz he does talk about some potential changes that could be on the horizon when we get to the, the 2030s. So
(00:05:49): One of my own personal takeaways that we've, you know, shared with others after this is as builders right now, we are in a position of strength and we're going to continue to be in a position of strength for a little while. So now is the right time while you're strong to work on your game, you've got, you know, more opportunity out there. And it's funny because so many people we talk to say, you know, I don't have time to work on that or I don't have time to put this into my business or I don't have time to examine that when really now's the perfect time to really dig in and learn so that you can capitalize on this long runway. Plus you're in a position of strength with your client base. You need to stop, take the time, come up with a winning strategy, for example, around attracting and retaining labor. This was something that Connor said is going to continue through this entire decade. And if you're chasing it, instead of being out in front of it, you're going to be caught behind. So use this runway, don't wait till the end or just, don't go cruising down the runway thinking, Hey, this is great. Take the time right now and leverage that runway that you've got and make really smart decisions so that you have a systematized business when the dark clouds of the, of the 2030s arrive. So take a listen. Now
(00:07:03): We've got a few nuggets from episode 22, the roaring twenties with Conner Lo car. I think the ability to attract and retain labor is gonna be a massive competitive advantage for businesses in the 2020s. And the one line you
(00:07:16): Guys said was the focus should go towards hiring the golden retriever puppy versus trying to find the purple unicorn. And it really resonated with me. And maybe that's something you could expand upon a little bit.
(00:07:26): Yeah, absolutely. So that anecdote, one of my, my colleagues, her client shared that with her and, and I thought it was great. It was, you know, they, they feel like they've spent so much time in the last few years waiting for that purple unicorn. And, and for our listener, the client described the purple unicorn as that ready, Togo trained, highly motivated employee that you just plug and play and it keeps organization moving. But it's about as rare these days as a purple unicorn. And they've, you know, realized that maybe reorienting their expectations in how they're deploying their resources to, to gather more golden retriever puppies, which are, you know, they're excited, they're untrained, you know, they're, they're kind of pliable assets, but, but I, I I've talked with a lot of my clients about that. That's just, you can't wait for the labor market to bring it to you cuz it's just not going to happen.
(00:08:14): So you, if I, if I wanted to give somebody, you know, something that not necessarily that's keeping me up at night, but, but something that's in the back of my head, I I guess, would be from a market condition standpoint, interest rates were of the opinion of ITR that we're gonna be on a general climb here as the 2020s wear on. You know, if, if the current run that we're on, you know, if the word bubble or I guess the ensuing bubble pop type market outcome were to come, I, I guess my concern would reside on if, if we see a little bit of an interest rate whip saw here where obviously just re I mean, we had 30 year fixed mortgages averaging below 3% for much of the second half of last year, which is just a joke. I mean, it, it's just crazy affordable.
(00:08:51): And obviously we've seen the buyer response to that now that we're seeing mortgage rates creep up. We don't think it'll be game break, but you know, my, my generation, you know, we're, you know, kinda short term, you know, memory creatures where, you know, and, and we certainly don't have the perspective of the seventies or eighties. So, so we think of four, 4% 30 or fixed, you know, we think that that's like normal. We're like, oh 3%. Yeah. I guess, you know, this is nice where anyone, you know, over the age of 40, you know's especially 50. I mean, you know, my parents' first homes, you know, eight, 9% mortgage rates. I mean just things that are unfathomable for my generation. So, so for my generation and, and, you know, I, I, I sound like a self important millennial keep talking about millennials, but, but we are the next, we're the needle mover from a demand perspective.
(00:09:33): It it's, you know, baby boom, they're gonna be into, you know, kind of their re portfolio consolidation, trade down. That's gonna start happening over the 2020s, which is okay because millennials by headcount are actually a little bit bigger than the baby boomer generation. So we're there, I think to sufficiently kind of offset some of that aging demographies is kind of draw down, but what worries me is, you know, if we see mortgage rates go up, meaningfully, obviously we're seeing inflation levels. We're seeing that the bond market is definitely pricing in some higher inflation expectations and some higher growth expectations, but does my generation get stick or shock if mortgages go back to, you know, five or five in a quarter? I mean, that was actually, you know, part of the reason you'll single family starts actually contracted in 2019. And that was actually on a chart, you know, just a, almost a perfect negative response to mortgage rates.
(00:10:22): When we saw interest rates, you know, 10 year treasury yields above 3%, 30 year fixed mortgages and the high fours, low fives in 2018, that kind of laid the foundation for some market softening in 2019 that the market was really starting to heat up early last year before co O tripped it up, you know, for four weeks. And then it was back off to the races. So I'm keeping a, a pretty close eye, I think on mortgage rates, because for whatever reason, the single unit housing starts trend and growth rates have been remarkably responsive to interest rate moves over the last decade, more so and more consistently than we saw in the prior decade. It's just the of relationship is really tightened up. And they've responded very enthusiastically this year. So as we see those start to, to, you know, flow a little bit higher here, moving forward, we don't think it's gonna be particularly catastrophic, but if we, you know, just keep getting more stimulus, more inflation pressures, the bond market starts to, you know, price that in. And, and all of a sudden that carries, you know, five, you know, God forbid of 6% mortgage rate, you know, that could jolt the market a little bit and, and could be more of a generate a bit of a speed bump here in the 2020s for what I think otherwise will be a pretty strong decade for the, the single unit single family development market and remodeling market here as we move forward over the next several years. So next up is episode
(00:11:36): 12, the ultimate business model with Blair McDaniel. Yeah. Again, this is one where, you know, Blair comes from a very, you know, grassroots grows his contracting company and ends up being the leader of a network with about 150 offices. Now across north America was very, very popular with the with the audience. It's also one that, you know, was, I'm not gonna say eyeopening, but really like heartwarming for us when we saw, well, first of all, it, it always makes us happy when we see the stuff that we're doing is having an impact when somebody shares their story to say, Hey, I, I ended up connecting with this person or they reach out to us to say, I connected with that business coach and I'm working with them now, and it's working for me, or I'm, I'm using EOS in my business now, or whatever it may be, but this one was really cool because it is direct, you know, there, we saw a social media post that gave a shout out out to build their nuggets and said that after this episode, that business owner reached out directly to Blair, got time with Blair and ultimately ended up joining Alair home.
(00:12:49): So that was really, really heartwarming and cool to, to hear that this stuff is having impact, but Blair's, Blair's story is amazing to, to come from where he did my takeaways from this are when you're building a, an effective business model. It has to be simple, his vision for what could be done in our industry is very powerful. And, you know, in an industry that needed structure, here's a company that comes out and for puts all those things in place so that you can get out of your own way and go and focus on building something amazing. And you, and you don't have to, to, to work too hard, so hard all the time at figuring it out yourselves. The other two takeaways, I, I guess for me, were the level of predictability that you can create in your business as a result of following the things that that Blair talks about. And probably the number one is that the fundamentally missing, you know, that one big missing ingredient in somebody who's trying to just run their own business themselves is that there's no level of, there's not enough accountability.
(00:13:53): Certainly one of my, a episodes as well you know, had the pleasure to work with, with Blair on, in, in different levels. Over the past several years, it really resonates with a lot of the things that we do. A lot of the stuff that we're we're coaching here, you know, it resonates with a lot of the things that the other guests we have on the show talk about. So sit back here and let's listen to a few of the nuggets from episode 12, the ultimate business model with Blair McDaniel,
(00:14:17): The business model had to be simple. right. And executable, repeat, repeat, repeat, no key individuals making key decisions that are, you know, gut instinct decisions. You can't have that in a scalable business. You just cannot. You're, you're pretty quick to appreciate, Hey, this is very much like a licensing agreement or a structure, right. To appreciate that it would turn into what it is today. No, no, no, no.
(00:14:43): Well, that's, that's kinda what you were getting at, when you said it became a franchise by accident. You didn't set, set out to do it. It just, as you were looking to grow, it just happened to be the only model that would facilitate the ability for him to own his own business and you to have control over the services that were provided and make sure things were done, done the way that you, that you all agreed on. You're crazy to do it in this industry. Like how many times did you hear that?
(00:15:10): I can continue to hear it. Yeah. Well, less now, but yeah, not and Dave, not only, not only very tenured executives in franchising, but even people close to me or people in cons, certainly people in construction, everybody in construction, like I'd heard that so many times, so many times, and I just refused to hear it. If there was ever an industry that needed structure support and, and scalable a scalable process for, for growth, this is it like, so yeah. I heard it, heard it over and over and over Yeah. Was fuel . Oh, totally. yeah, totally. Totally.
(00:15:57): What do you think when you think about the ultimate business model? I mean, how important is it to have that business model in place? Just, it seems to me to be just paramount. I, I, I can only speak from my personal experience between, because I know there's people that are wired different ways than, than me, but for me, I love when things are predictable, when I have a very high degree of certainty to what the outcome should be, or is probably going to be. And once you've got that and you feel like you can then now take this and you can duplicate it with in a predictable way and then speed that up and speed that up and speed that up and speed that up and just get faster and faster and more efficient. There's something about that. That is, that is really, really appealing. You cannot, I mean, we've all, you know, you can't scale chaos and there's lots of other, probably less pleasant ways to state that. We've all heard the, and they, they are very, very true and the very, the very flip side is true as well.
(00:17:06): You have to have the fundamentals, right? Do they have to be perfect? No, in fact, I don't think they should be be because you, like, we were just talking, we are, we're in a changing environment. We got a lot of personalities at play. We will always be fluid. Like the business model has to be changing, but it has to be you, you live within that 80 20 rule. It has to be 80%. Right. And when it is, you can scale. Right. And without it, it's just a nightmare and we've all been there. We've all experienced just that, you know, that feeling of like, whoa, this is off the rails. It's, it's the worst feeling in the world. The fundamental missing ingredient, if you will, that most small businesses have
(00:17:50): Is no accountability. Zero our unicorn project manager's episode with Steve Hao, Jason Barnes and Mike Peters continues to be one of those episodes that, that stands out because people, business owners want to know what makes a great project manager and just hearing their stories and why they do what they do that resonates that's clearly resonated with you. Dwayne, what were some, some of your takeaways from that? Yeah, for me, some of the big takeaways, I think really were, you know, the fact that your, your best and brightest project managers, they're gonna be such an asset to your team, but it takes a little bit of setup, you know, and the fact that they're are gonna wanna work in somewhat autonomously, they're gonna really take they have a passion they're gonna take to heart what they're doing, you know, and as a business owner, if you're gonna bring on project managers and try to have some of the top managers that are out there, you better have the structure, the process, and the training in place for them to, to thrive or one they're just, well, they won't thrive. Two they'll probably leave. So what, what the project managers from their perspective is what they look for in a company. And then, you know, we also had the benefit because a few of these project managers are also business owners. So we got to see it from both sides. So here are some nuggets from episode 17 unicorn project managers.
(00:19:07): And if you can't communicate, but it's just a, it, I mean, I really believe that part of the most important qualities of project manager can possess is passion. The best project managers that I've seen come through our doors are the ones that when a mistake does happen, you can, you can almost see it in their face when they come into your office, that the mistake is affect them more. And me as an owner, I don't even have to tell 'em they did anything wrong because they care so much about the mistake that happened. And we just focus on the solutions. Those are intangible qualities that I think can't be taught the rest construction, technical knowledge and all that. Although it's, there's a lot to it. Those are things that could be taught, but those intangible qualities are so important.
(00:19:52): I think as a, as a business owner, when you're bringing on new PMs, if you don't have a process, or if you don't have any sort of structure, and I've seen this happen several times where, you know, they owner operator hires someone to help them out and says, okay, now go manage this project. And there's no, the owner operator just always did it. And there's no, he just does it. There's not really a rhyme or reason. He just kind of does it as he goes based on experience. And that's really hard to hand off to someone. So you'll, those owner operators are never gonna get outta their business. They're always gonna be, everything's gonna rise and fall on them. And so having really specific process is key for a new project manager. So when, whenever we bring a new project manager in, there's a lot of process training we have, you know, checklists for a lot of things, you know, through how to plan out a project to how, you know, what to look for during framing, what to look for during drywall and insulation and all the steps of, of construction. So that it's very systemized and really what, what they need to, when they have questions for us, it's more about what's the next step in the process is not, how do I, do you know, how do I do my job
(00:21:07): When the project's handed over to the project manager, we basically have a, a team meeting weekly where we're, we're reviewing that project. The project managers are always, you know, CC me and client communication, that sort of thing. So I, I always have a thumb on what's going on in our weekly team meetings. You know, we're, we're talking about issues that are happening, we're, we're discussing them and resolving them right then and there. And if I were to meet that client in the grocery store, I may not have an all the answers to the project, but I, I know exactly what's what's happening. And, you know, besides the communication part of that you know, through our, through our software, we're able to get a very, you know, quick bird's eye view on budget schedules and all sorts of things that keep us in tune all the time. I
(00:21:53): Don't think the bar has really been set that high. So I don't think it's really that hard to stand out. One of the books that has been influential in our learning in our path is never split the difference by Chris VO, such a cool books. So many of us have read it. It's almost become required reading for anybody that we're coaching. So it was pretty cool in episode 30 for us to get the chance to sit down with the president of the black Swan media group, Brandon Vos, who is Chris's son, and just share some of those experiences with them. And again, it must have resonated with you guys as well, because it was one of the top ranked episodes that we have. But Dwayne, what did you learn
(00:22:33): From Brandon? I think from Brandon, this too, again with me was another one of the, those cases where here's somebody from outside of our industry, but the concepts of what he brought to the table, you know, can be used across all businesses, all industries. So, you know, really being able to sit down and, and identifying those three different negotiator types. I think that's huge. You know, you you've gotta do that early on. When you're sitting down to have conversations, it's gonna, it, it could totally change the way you communicate with the person you're talking with. I think that that set up from the beginning of understanding that is gonna lead you to be ultimately a, a much better negotiator. So here we go with some nuggets from episode 30, negotiate like a boss with Brandon
(00:23:12): Boss, it's not about Jedi mind tricks. There's, There's actually a client of ours that talks a lot about gathering data with your eyes. And, and we have we've essentially stolen that from him with his permission, of course, and just learning to gather data with my eyes. Like one of the things we talk about me raising my prices, I was very much justified because at that point in time, I had two other competitors in the space and across the entire DC waterfront, I had pushed those guys out unknowingly. Nobody was doing business with them. They couldn't get a boat to save their lives because my prices were good. But even more than that, the work product was that much better. Right? Bringing a boat back to life, stands out in a marina, you know, seeing the environment in that way. But then also when you talk to the individuals, the boat owners get and data with your eyes on how they react to you, you know what their viewpoint is on spending money in general, right? You can get a really good read on how someone sees spending money on anything. If you just pay close enough attention within the first five or six minutes to talk
(00:24:22): To, it's gotta be huge to figure out who you are before you even try to identify who other people are correct. You know, that that's a great thing, right? It's also, there's a very introspective side to all this content and understanding where you sit first and how you naturally react to other people in the environment is, is, is a great place to start, right? Like you've gotta know, right. If you're a natural. So there are triggers that come along with that. One of those triggers is being able to stay in your chair, especially when you should, right. Sitting back and being patient and not being so focused on the short term satisfaction, right? That's an assertives problem. Then you gotta know that you're gonna potentially drive an analyst crazy. Who's entirely focused on the long term and taking it slow and being very skeptical. Right. You're gonna drive each other insane. And so, yeah, that's a great point. Dwayne, knowing where you sit is always the best place to start when it comes to understanding time.
(00:25:17): Well, now we're gonna move on with some episodes that were popular with Dave young. One of the benefits of getting to be a co-host on this show, Dwayne, is that I get some say every once in a while too. So I thought it would be fun to just share with you and everyone else, some of my own personal takeaways, and some of the episodes that I thought were, were really interesting. And one of the, the cool pieces of my journey is the conversations I've been able to have with these people after and how the relationship has continued to grow. And you'll, you'll see when we go through some of these, that these are people that we're, we're continuing to work with and are going to have again on the show, if we haven't already scheduled them and, and doing amazing things with after the fact as well.
(00:25:58): So I'm going to indulge myself and, and share with you who has had impact on me through this episode 43 was entitled for exit, and we got a chance to meet David Berger. David is a very successful business coach, and he's got so much experience and wisdom in the industry. It was really cool for us to, to hear some of those things in talking about what it means to exit your business. One of the things that he challenges business owners around is, Hey, would, did you buy your own business? And it was interesting that 90% of the time that answer was no. So we really started thinking about what it means to build a business. I mean, we'd already been working on this, but at that episode, and since we've really been digging in with David to collaborate around, what is really going on with, with the businesses is they're getting near the end.
(00:26:49): Is there opportunity to build these principles in much, much sooner? Does that give you so many more so many more options? And that's why this episode was, was really powerful for me. You know, the takeaways from episode really are, are the fact that it's your job to create a business that isn't dependent on you, your, your job as the business owner is to create opportunity for other people. If you can create the opportunity, if you can put systems, processes, a culture in place that attracts other people and allows them to flourish and thrive, then you can build something incredible. You can elevate those people by elevating them. You're elevating yourself, probably into an ambassador type role of that business, where you can work on just the highest level of relationship things, and still have visibility into how your business is running, how it's performing the legacy of your invest, the legacy of your relationship. There's no reason why you can't be a part of it, but you really need to start working on that. Now, otherwise you get to the end of the runway and you realize I can't take this thing off. It's not going to fly. And that's a really gut wrenching thing for people
(00:28:04): Wanna level up, connect with us to share your stories, ideas, challenges, and successes. The builder nuggets community is built on your experiences. It takes less than a minute to connect with firstname.lastname@example.org, Facebook or Instagram, Want access to the resources that can take you and your team to the next level. One call could change everything. So here's some not from episode 43, preparing for exit with David,
(00:28:27): Luke Berger, and imagine the right person then stepping in as successor and having that foundation in place. David, When you and I spoke a few weeks ago, we discussed the, the surging number of builders and remodelers that are aging out of this industry. Many, you know, are considering an exit from their business. They're thinking there might be someone out there that will stren that big check and they'll ride off into the sunset. But I think as we know, the sad fact is this just doesn't happen very often. I mean, what's your, what's your view on this?
(00:28:56): It doesn't happen very often. And I I've done a number I used to do, you know, pre COVID used to do 18 or 20 live events, you in trade shows or just associations around the country. And if it ever came up, I would ask the group, would you buy your business? And it's a pivotal question because in most P and again, these are very, you know, I love working in the industry, cuz people are so honest and I would look at somebody and say, would you buy your business 90% of the time? The answer was no, because they know how hard it is. And so I've asked people in these group programs, you won't work forever. Do you have some kind of exit plan and no one does, you know, they're thinking I'm gonna work until I'm done. You know, I'll, I'll wind things down and then I'll figure out what I'm gonna do.
(00:29:48): And I'd mentioned to you before, can you imagine going into a remodeling project without a set of plans and all the things that that don't go, right? And so literally I'm gonna tell clients when I'm working with them, your job honestly, is to create a business. That's not dependent on you. And let's just look at this simply, what can you do to remove yourself from day to day operation day to day functions. And I've got this wonderful little owner centricity quiz where they go through every element in their business and their Gord. And the reality is, you know, most are the businesses are 60, 70, 80% dependent on these owners still doing key functions. Well, the, he is the business. She is the business. All right. So really the plan then is over time. Can we create a documented to begin moving out of some of those day to day functions, delegating those to key employees? What does it look like? How do we prioritize that? There's a visionary element in all this, which is, you know, can I begin to imagine? And I kind of go back to, if the business was running the way I would, like, what would I be doing? Who would be, who would I be working with? Who are the clients that I'd be working with in what areas, what are the projects I like doing best? And you know, it all starts
(00:31:14): There. Episode four was actually the first one we taped. So there's a special spot in my heart for life plan with Steve bark house. And also because it's Steve bark house, who is my buddy and is just an incredible human being, a top builder in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, who has been so generous with his time with us and sharing what has worked for him in, in January, probably our first episode of the year. He you'll have the opportunity to hear about his people plan, which you know, life plan is episode four people plan is an amazing episode. So I'd like to set the stage for Steve there, but this is one guy's journey of how he really took the time to put proper plans in place. And he started with his life plan and thought, I should have a business that works around building my life, not the other way around, not just spend my life building a business.
(00:32:12): He started with his eulogy. So that's kind of cool. He talks a lot about living in the moment as well and doing, doing incredible things. He sh he shares some stories with about some of the things in his life that he missed a out on, because he was too focused on his business. He was working his off and not present for some important things with his family. And he got to the point where now he's able to take, you know, 14 weeks, a year of vacation, he's built a thriving business. He's got a team that loves working for Amsted construction. So this episode really lays out a great framework for you to build your own plan. So here are some nuggets from episode four life plan with Steve bark house, you putting yourself first so that you can be the person you need to be for other people. You started your plan by writing your eulogy. Tell us about that.
(00:33:06): Yeah. So I, I'm fortunate to, to have a, a great business partner not a very handsome man and, and not terribly bright either, but hope he's listening to this. But no, he's, he's great. And, and the two of us realized, you know, we gotta write this, this stuff down. And so that was a good idea. We come up with great ideas all the time. Putting them into action is always more of a challenge. So we're like, okay, we're gonna do this life plan and that's gonna be great and we're gonna follow it. And okay, how do we get started? And we did tons of reading and the internet sort, all of that. And we just couldn't find the just that starting point. And it was a friend of ours. We were telling 'em about our trials and tribulations of getting going. And they said, well, it's like any plan, isn't it that you start with the end and, and work your way to that end goal, to that end solution. And we're thinking, okay, well, how can a life plan have an end, but really it it's what you want said about you at your funeral.
(00:34:05): I, if you can't get yourself to a point where you can detach, it does become extremely stressful. Once a year, I take a two week period and I write down, I got the little categories. I start check off. What do I do every day, all day at work. So I sort of track where I spend my time and every year I look at that at the end and I add up the totals and the columns. I'm always shocked. And I find another way to be more efficient because I, I, I'm not efficient when I look at it and I challenge my team to do it, and they just hate me for it. So what I start with usually is, okay, write down instead, take half an hour, write down thing that you wanna do in the next two weeks, what you wanna achieve, and then put down how long it's gonna take beside it and be honest. So they'll make the list. They'll put down the time I add enough.
(00:34:50): And it's like, you know, 300 hours worth of work in two, two weeks. And I'm like, okay. So that can happen. That doesn't work and just focusing them on, okay, what can we do? What most important, what can wait? What if we achieve this this week can get us closer to our goal and just moving that ball forward. And that's the same with your life plan. If it's written down, you're not out to achieve it in a year. It's taken me 30 years and I still got lots of boxes to check, but it's just moving that rock every day, every week, month. And at the end of the year, you look back at the end of 30 years, I can tell you, look back and go, holy. We're, we're getting there. I think that if you find what's important to you and goals that you want to achieve, then it's easy to have that motivation.
(00:35:36): I've got a couple of things. I I'm looking at my computer screen here now. And I've got a couple of sayings on the top of my computer screen that motivate me. One of them is noble profession. I honestly believe that I am in a noble profession and there are times when we deal with clients that might see me as a noble professional. But I've for, you know, what, it was good enough for Jesus and this, that it's good enough for me. And then I've got another one that says embrace the inevitable challenge. And that's sort of multifaceted in that. I would tend to shy away from challenges. And this tells me, you know what, I've got to embrace it. If I'm gonna be the person I want to be, because they are inevitable and there are gonna be challenges every single day. And if I can go in with that mindset that, Hey, it's seven o'clock in the morning. I arrived at the office. I wonder what my challenges is gonna be today. But when I get it, I'm going to embrace it because that's what tells me I'm moving forward.
(00:36:32): So I mentioned David Berger and exit strategy, exit strategy has come back again and again. And I think it's resonating with me so much because it's not, there's not a whole bunch of finality with it the way it used to be. I'm very intrigued with how we are grown, how we are creating more freedom in our, in our businesses. So episode 11, exit strategy, some of things in there having to tell somebody that their business was, was probably not worth anything. I asked a builder at, at one point what his strategy was now that the economy was picked up and it was, you know, this time I'm not going to spend it all. We really started realizing we really dig into the, that most people don't really have a plan and your plan can start. Now. It doesn't matter if you're just kicking off your business, you should be building your business as if somebody else is running it.
(00:37:31): Otherwise your business will run you. This, this episode is a really great deep dive into that and the different things that, that you can, you can and do. So because ultimately, if you are the only one who can run your business, it's worth exactly what you are willing to pay for it. You're going to be the El the only buyer. So again, a shift of mindset, episode 11, exit strategy, Dwayne, roll some nuggets from that one. So how did that feel when you, who had to tell this guy that his business might be worthless? Well, it was a, it was a punch in the guts for him. I was lucky in that. I wasn't the one who told him it was somebody else. He, you know, he had hired a professional in our business. Dwayne, we, we kind of know when you see the infrastructure of a company, whether it's got real value to somebody else or whether it can be automated to some degree or not, but it was, you know, it's, it's a kick in the guts to hear it, but it really resonated with him. And ultimately it led to him having more conversations with, with me and talking about the things that he needed to do to set those up in his business. Ultimately he did them and since went on to sell his business for far more than he, than he had there. So it ended up being, being quite a success story. There
(00:38:49): Is one other option. Unfortunately, we, we hear quite a bit and it's the option that, that you can simply close the doors. And a lot of this is just based on the hope that you will have saved enough money, that you can just walk away from your business. The, the sad part is this is actually becoming a very common strategy. Yeah. Back in 20 13, 20 14, the first conversations I was having with, with builders pure, just, you know, as they're coming out of the recession and recovering and starting to do well again. And I said, Hey, so what are you, what are you gonna do differently this time? What's your strategy? And a large portion of them. Dwayne said, well, this time I'm not gonna spend it all. But nobody said, I'm going to work on building a more valuable business. A few of them said, I'm not gonna do so back homes again. And some of those guys that I've spoken to are doing spec homes again. So we'll, we'll see what happens there. You know, closing the doors or down scaling becomes a reality at, at some point. And I remember talking to a builder in Clemson, South Carolina, who had at one point big go had a great, you know, big company going 15, 20 employees, well known doing great, but he was pulling his hair out.
(00:40:05): He was frustrated. He was working all the time, banging his head against the wall. He felt like in the weeds, as you say, Dwayne, he was looking at his bottom line and just saying, Hey, I can't, I can't do this anymore. When I called him to talk about making a transformation, he, he said, well, this is timely. Cuz I just spoke with my wife last night about possibly just shutting, shutting down or maybe not shutting down, but scaling down to just me and maybe one project manager, cuz I can't handle this anymore. There's just too much stuff going on. And I don't wanna build, I don't want my business running my life. He spoke with his wife about it and she said, but what about the things that you wanna achieve in your community? And he was very involved in his community and with his church and had a number of goals of things and ways that he wanted to get back.
(00:40:55): He also had a number of trades and carpenters and staff that were counting on him. So that was the catalyst for him and the recognition that, Hey, I need to start working on this. So similar to having a, a mini celebrity on your show, somebody like Brandon boss, another episode that really resonated with me. And again, because I've had the chance to interact there after the show and I'm involved in Dan Sullivan's strategic coaching program was our interview with Shannon Waller Noy self building in a unique experience in, in episode 44, this one was really cool just because of the, the energy that Shannon brings to what she does. The fact that she's so accomplished as an author, an award-winning Colby certified consult and a sought after speaker and, and her leadership role with as a key decision maker at strategic coach, we got to do into some really cool stuff here.
(00:41:55): Things like your unique ability, what we've been calling, you know, your highest and best use what you should really be focusing your time on leadership skills, borrowing from who not, how, why you are a great who for others. This is really been powerful for me. As I work on things in, in our business, Shannon is a world leader on unique ability teamwork. So when you start to work on your own unique ability and you attract other people who are unique in their abilities, you're, you're creating an ultimate team fabric and environment. So Shannon was able to walk us through that, but probably the, the simplest one as the four, you know, referability habits that we, that, that Shannon gets into that are just simple, easy takeaways. Yeah, certainly great episode. So sit back and listen to a few nuggets from episode 44, know thy self with Shannon Waller.
(00:42:50): This is how you win the race. So your, your uniqueability activities are those few things. It's not 30, it's more like two or three that you both have superior skill at them. You are better at them than those than most people. And that's not your ego talking. that's other people saying you're amazing, but you also love it. You bring a passion to it. You bring excitement. And it's interesting. There's a couple of other characteristics of unique ability too. So you love it. You have superior skill. Also. It it's, it gives you energy. Like at the end of the day, you might be physically tired, but you're kind of alive in a different way because it fuels you. This is like, this was super fun. Can I, how do I get to do more of it? And you feel like you're really making a difference.
(00:43:34): And, and then the part that kind of bends people outta shape a little bit is how even as much as you love and as good as you are, you can always see room for improvement. So no matter how talented you are, if you don't do these four things, it will kind of sink you. You will not be referable as, as a person or as company. So number one is show up on time. Now some of us are a little optimistic about what we can, what we can pull off so that you may have to set extra reminders or timers, but still we're all responsible for getting ourselves to where we said we were gonna be on time. So show up on time. Number two is do what you say. So if you committed to something, write it down, remember like put it into your right phone, do something so you can actually do what you say. Number three is finish what you start, Dave, I'm looking at you. You and I are really good at finishing things at the last minute. Other people are really good at finishing things shortly
(00:44:29): After start. Dwayne is grinning because when we do, when we do like writing for episodes, it's like a week before, he'll say, okay, make sure you get the, those notes up there. And it's like the day before I will be writing sometimes the morning before it'll be like, yeah, it's gonna be he'll he'll he'll text me like 10, 15 minutes before we get ready to record an episode. Did you check out this show notes? so, and Dwayne, yeah, I did need for prep time. He, he likes, he likes to have it all in front of him and think about it and, and absorb it. And that's how he works. And for me it's like, if I looked at this stuff a week in advance, it'd be gone by the time I needed it or you'd change it. You wouldn't like it. Yeah. So Yeah, I mess with it.
(00:45:11): It, no, and this is, what's so great about Colby and other profiles. It's because you two know your Colby profiles. It's, you know, Dwayne, you're not taking, Dave's doing it last minute personally. No. And you're not thinking he should do it exactly. Like, like you do it. And Dave, you're the same. You're like, okay, that's great for you. You get started a week in I'll promise to have it in 20 minutes before the show starts yeah. Or whatever it is. And you know that he'll meet that deadline, finish it just in a very different way of getting it done. The end result is there let's be clear. We're all responsible for finishing what we started and delivering the results. If we just get there very different and knowing someone allows you to not take it person and go, not assume everyone else is just like you.
(00:45:54): Cause we know what assume means yeah. From grade four. So that's key. And so we've got show on time. Do we say finish what you start? And the last one is less about doing and more about appreciation. It's basically saying please, and thank you. So not taking other people for granted being respectful and asking, being appreciative and saying thank you in a very genuine way. So I, I was coaching this one time to, to some team members and their entrepreneurs said, or the team member said, oh, my entrepreneur says, writes P and T Y on the bottom of everything standing for please. And thank you. I'm like, Ooh. I said, that's not really coming across well, is it? And the person said, no, it's really not. you have to express it. You have to let the person know specifically treat them as individuals you said earlier, you know, you have to let them know specifically what you are asking them for and being appreciative again, specifically with detail about the difference that it made, that they did that when you, of those things, you'll be both a fabulous human being, incredibly referable.
(00:46:58): You'll be a great leader. You'll attract and keep really great people. And if you have that as a byline for your company, you will absolutely win in the marketplace because in, in a lot of industries, it's a, it is a game changer. But I have, have to say, Dave, you and I are talking about this in our pre-con conversation. I have to say in, in some trades, not so much. So I think it's really important to, if you adopt these for viability habits, it's amazing how differentiated you'll be from your competition.
(00:47:27): Okay. So I can't hog the the mic the whole time here. Dwayne. I know there are some episodes that were, that resonated with you. And one of them was somebody that you had a past relationship as well with business coach James Pano. Yeah. James, James pano have known him for a while. Great friend, and certainly in this industry and Ross business business, multiple industries actually, but he's, he's known as somebody that really can come to the table. Great listener. The guy is fantastic at being able to get into a room and just have good conversations with people. I think I originally met James at a, a business networking event, but you know, his episode, it's a relationship, not a transaction, his, his gotten lots of feedback. We hear it all the time. We, we use that phrase in many of our other episodes. It certainly resonated with me, resonated with others. You know, one of the big things being the fact that it's just, you've just gotta get it through your head. It's not about you. If you make it about yourself, if you make it about your product, what you're selling, it's gonna, it's gonna descend into a, into a transit action. And you, it has to be more than that. You have to build a relationship leadership as well. You know, when he talks about this, getting into part of building a relationship is, is building some trust. Having the, the folks on the other side of the table see value in, in what you bring to the table. And he summed it up by saying, you know, if you can't lead yourself, you can't lead others. So here are some nuggets from episode 18, it's a relationship, not a transaction with James Bano. Well,
(00:48:55): Let me, let me start by, by mentioning this, you need to understand that business is more relational than transactional. And if you could get your arms around that, then that's how you can build a business towards success. That's an asset separate from you, which you mentioned Dave, and that's important. If you're gonna build a business, it has to be separate from you. And the only way to do that is to surround yourself with talent and people who could do things better than you. And so you can get outta your own way. If I could distill it down like this, I work with my clients in three major areas of business and they are results or KPIs metrics. How, you know, what's the output let's work toward. What's the output you're looking for. The other element is time management, priority management. And that always gets away from us, right? And the third pillar is relationship management. And I talk about relationships. You have to think of it as internal and external it's vendors. It's collaborative relationships that are supporting you in somehow some fashion. It's your network of professionals that you surround yourself with your attorneys, your accountant, people that could help you with your business. But it goes beyond just one category of relationships. Business is people doing business with people, it's people and people that's it. So relational over transactional, the transactions will occur once the relationships are in place.
(00:50:27): If you can't lead yourself, you can't lead others. There's your nugget. An interesting Dwayne, you mentioned that, you know, the, the previous relationship with James and, and how he, you know, we actually had him attend one of the one of the coaching events we did. You're number two on your list here of, as it resonated with you was also somebody that we had as a keynote speaker at our, at our, at our leadership event. That was business coach Scott
(00:50:55): Bebe. Yes, it was Scott Bebe and episode two, you can't scale chaos. And I think one of the reasons this made my list more than anything else is the fact that, you know, I'm a builder, remodeler have been in this business my entire life for the most part. And I realized that, you know, the industry, that's just what it is. It's chaos, it's chaos all the time. Without people even realizing, realizing they're creating chaos. It is a huge challenge in this industry. It's something that you have got to be aware of. I think as a business owner, as a project manager carpenter lead carpent anybody that's trade vendor, chaos will just SAP the life out of, out of your business. It, it takes your time and it's really hard to get it back. So I think anyone that has taken the time to listen to this episode will appreciate the fact that you've gotta lay out why you're doing certain things. He talks about vision a lot in this episode where there's no vision, people will die. And that's exactly what it is because you can't, if you're just gonna be the kind of person that shows up and, and barks orders to others, they're not gonna follow. They're just not. And they're, and, and things are gonna rapidly descend in the chaos. So this was one of my favorite episodes. Vision without implementation is hallucination.
(00:52:05): No one's interested in something you might Do. So here's a nuggets on episode two, you can't scale chaos with Scott Bebe. Jim hates his life within six months because he is waking up at one in the morning to go make ice cream for people he doesn't even really like. And so some of those things that we've got to make sure there's two right out of the gate that usually catch people off guard. Number one, if asked Scott, what are the, what are the most important things that I need to do in order to, to build my business, the majority of people are gonna run to marketing, product development, whatever vision, vision you have got to write your vision down. And there's a, there's an age old promise. Write the vision down so that those who read it may run, write the vision down so that those who read it may run. It is a guarantee that if you write your vision down and you share that vision, people will run, they may not run towards you.
(00:52:57): They may run away from you may not like the vision. And that's good. That's a healthy progress either way is they run towards you or away from you. Number one is vision story. The second most important thing is not profitability is it's not sound organizational structure, as important as that is. It's not the latest technique in trim development or whatever. The second most important thing are consistent. Agenda driven leader led team meetings. I said it, I know it's like a cuss word, but team meetings, well run team meetings are the second most important thing. And I'll prove it to you. You've got a, a, a brick and mortar business and a hurricane comes through and mows it down, destroys it as just happen in Southwest Louisiana. To some, there are so many things in that store that are, that are honorable to chaos. They are, they are consumptive and consumables to chaos.
(00:53:48): Meaning chaos comes in, they eat 'em up and they're valueless at this point, but there are two things that if any business has after a hurricane comes and mows it down, that I would look at that business and say, I we're gonna make it. We're gonna make it. Even if you're, you've got you're upside down in debt and all these things, you're gonna make it. Number one is a vision of where you want to go. If you've got a vision of where you want to go, then we've got clarity on that direction. We're not wasting our time looking at all this other stuff. That's number one. The second is a means of communication. If all communications wiped out, you're in the middle of nowhere, it's gonna be a hard, hard jog to try to get back to somewhere famous. Michael Gerber. It's right. Work on it. Not in it. Joe Calloway said vision without implementation is hallucination.
(00:54:32): What is she doing here? One of my favorite episodes. And we have had a few other females in construction on the podcast in this past year. I know Jenny Hoffman, well, she's someone here in North Carolina that I have collabo rated with on, on a few other things. She's very active in the industry. We certainly know that there can be challenges for folks like her trying to enter a predominantly male dominated industry for so many years. And I think, again, her approach to the way she went into it, the way she found ways by learning from others, to gather the confidence, to, to do the things that she wanted to do in construction, the steps all along the way that she took, you know, to do things the right way to, to learn from mothers and, and collaborate and just build a team of people around her that were gonna help her build the, the business that she wanted to. It just, it spoke volumes to her character and, and the way she approached it. So kudos to Jenny full or setting a tone in the industry and sit back now and listen to a few nuggets from episode 15. What is she doing here with Jenny Hoffman?
(00:55:35): Let's figure out what you're really good at and figure out how we can fill your 40 hours doing more of that. And less of this other stuff. I for sure had moments of pulling up at that time in my minivan, to the job site and having to psych myself up to walk into a job site full of men who were gonna look at me like, what is she doing here? You know, as I was working on that first house, friends and friends of friends were intrigued and started saying things to me like, Hey, my sister and laws redoing her kitchen, would you be up for talking to her about it? I was encouraged by the process enough that I, it, it made me sure that I wanted to get my general contractor's license and go through the steps of becoming, you know, registering with the state to become an LLC and start my business.
(00:56:26): And, you know, for the first couple of years, investment projects were my mainstay. That was what I, where I felt most comfortable and that's. And honestly the fact that I started out the building for myself, investment projects for myself, was a comfort because I didn't have a client that I was gonna let down. So it was a, it gave me some room to learn and grow without making mistakes on someone else's house. And I, yeah, I, I worked my way into small client projects and I took advice from the guys in the field about how to handle contracts and markups and margins. And I made a lot of mistakes around how to charge correctly for things, how not to lose your shirt, how to keep track of change orders, holy cow, how to keep track of the paper trail of all the decisions clients make.
(00:57:31): So I, I feel like I've learned a ton. I've learned a ton, and I got to a point where I couldn't do it on my own anymore and continued to grow the business to a point where it was truly gonna sustain me. Somebody told me to hire a business coach, and here's the name of my business coach. I called her and got started with her. And that was a game changer. It was hugely helpful to have someone coach me, to take time away from the day to day running of the business, to stay and back and take the, you know, the sky high view of the business and figure out the long term planning that led me to a second business coach that was more construction oriented. And that led me to a point where again, I just found myself thinking, you know, what I need is I need a council of builders so that we can bounce ideas off of each other and figure you're at best practices together, trying to get over the idea of appearing foolish, forget it. Who cares if you appear foolish, ask who cares a lot of questions. And I find that people find it, it brings people's barriers down. When you admit vulnerability. Essentially I have a thousand questions I would really love to learn from you instead of being intimidated by all the experts in your field, around you, that's a resource take advantage. So,
(00:58:55): Dwayne, I, I feel like I'm getting the unfair treatment here because the, the next guest that resonated with you actually did two parts. So there was so much good content there. So, and for everybody out there, who's listening, we probably could have done, we have nuggets. We love and value. We've taken from every single one of these episodes and the guests that we've collaborated here with. But, you know, in the interest of time, we couldn't go back and do it. If you're somebody listening for the first time, just go back to the start and walk your way through it. Every single guest we've had on the show was amazing and has a lot to to offer. But Dwayne, this episode was important to you. We, it went so well. We had to turn it into two
(00:59:35): Episodes. Yeah, we certainly did. I mean, Joe STO, I'm sure more those people out there are familiar. He's an icon in the industry he's been involved with different construction publications. He's involved with coaching and consulting. He's passionate about the industry. And I think the big takeaway that I had listening to, to Joe and it did, it went on, it went so well. He was so, you know, engaged in the conversation. It, it went on enough for us to make two really good episodes out of it. But, you know, I think the fact that we are going to have to, as an industry come together and, and really invest time in training from the beginning, those that have been in the industry seasoned like myself are, are really gonna have to start taking on the apprentice and, and mentor roles. We're not seeing the, the education available to young people in our, in our high schools and, and other places, the things are changing. There are some available programs that are available, but I think we all know that there was just such a long way to go for us to turn this around. And it's gonna take all of us getting involved because the importance of training is just, it. It's just so huge. And I think, I just think he nailed it in this, in these two episodes. So let's close it out with some nuggets from episode 33 and 34 perpetual training with Joe STO. You've gotta be able to gauge whether your employees are learning.
(01:00:55): I mean, I think back, we used to have apprenticeships trade schools. There was tons of ways for people to really get kind of in the job training and that's disappeared through the years. And I mean, when you look at it nowadays, why do you think it's so overlooked in this
(01:01:09): Industry? Well, for one thing, it cost, I mean, you know, builders, don't budget for training. I mean, it's, it's gotta be built into your operational budget and into your retail pricing. And you know, that's the first hurdle. If you're not budgeting for it, you won't do it. And you know, builders got away without it for a long time. You know, they, they, they trained in house to the extent they could, there were trade programs and trade schools, and that stuff's pretty much all gone away. Now, you can't train people on systems that you don't have. That's so true. Yeah. As across the board, every department. Right. And, and a lot of times, you know, getting back to why don't builders train well, cause they don't have anything to train. Right. They're, they're really not. They're really not all that organized as business people and, and they're systems and processes you a lot of work before they're trainable, right?
(01:02:07): So that's, so that's that's number one. But assuming somebody is on sort of that best practice runway and you know, has together what they need. Of course, you gotta have a documentation, right? This is what we do, and this, this is how we do it. And then your program, you've gotta be able to gauge how your employees are learning and if they're learning. So there has to be a, you know, some kind of, for lack of a better word, a testing standard, the fastest way to out a business is to set more houses than you can efficiently and profitably produce. And that's exactly what happens like right now, we're in, in a period of high demand, unrelenting demand, and it's very seductive to say, okay, we're just gonna keep adding construction managers. And we're just gonna keep, you know, we're gonna keep buying lots and we're gonna keep building. If none of the, this background work is in place is a recipe for disaster. And, and you know, the it's very predictable. What will happen to those companies? We've talked about it on,
(01:03:08): On several episodes here and with this en environment that we're in, you know, the market's hot resources are stretched thin whoever wins this, this talent and training game of the workforce is gonna be way ahead of their
(01:03:24): Competition. Oh, you know, I wanted to say one thing about that too. You know, I, I made a note earlier right now we're fighting to find people, right? And so we, we train the golden retriever puppy and, and, you know, so we might, we might have, you know, six, eight trainees, right? In a, in a, in a production shop, you, you got half a dozen superintendents you're training. Well, one or two of them are gonna be outstanding compared to the others. Those are the ones that will still have a job and have advancement opportunity when things slow down, which they are going to do and are going to do interest rates are going up. Inflation is going up. I mean, I've been around long enough. I look, I got in the business in the, in the Jimmy Carter years. All right. So I, one of my, one of my first home building clients, I think had an 18%, an 18% mortgage.
(01:04:18): So, and I remember talking to an old realtor, you know, the guy's name was Louis farm alone. We used to eat lunch. The guy said, Louis, do you think we'll ever see 10% money again? And he said, no way, Joe, not in your lifetime. And of course, you know, that's been blown outta the water. Now it's like, you know, young people are scared of a 4% mortgage. The market is gonna cool off. And the people who are better to trained and better equipped are the ones that will, they're the ones that will still have a job and still have opportunity in the industry. And the ones that aren't will fall by the wayside.
(01:04:53): All right, everyone, that's a wrap. Like we said, we've been really humbled by the response or very grateful to all of you who have tuned in or followed us to our experts, to our team who have helped to build this community into what it is today. We're excited to see you in 2022, we're looking forward to hearing from you. We're going to be at the international builder show in Orlando. We have a booth there. So please come, stop by say hello. Tell us your story. We'd love to see you. We'd love to hear from you. Yeah.
(01:05:28): Thanks again to everybody. That's listening continues to listen. Whether you need some coaching, some consulting, or you just want to hear what others are doing in the industry, or maybe you've got at a store. Tell, just hit us email@example.com, Happy holidays, everyone. And have a great 2022.
Hey, thanks for listening. Dwayne and I love hearing from you. Your stories are inspiring and your challenges can be overcome. Got a cool tip? Idea for a show? Problem that you haven't been able to solve or maybe just struggling to figure out what you need next and where to get it. We can help. Hit us up at BuilderNuggets.com and start building freedom.