You're listening to “The School of Client Attraction.” Marquel Russell is the founder of Client Attraction University, a marketing consultancy helping you attract clients on autopilot and scale your business while working 50% less.
Quick disclaimer: a side effect of listening to the show is more clients, more profits, more freedom, and it's more impact in your business. Now, here's your host, Marquel Russell.
Marquel: Hey, what's good, everybody? It's Marquel Russell here. I’ve got my guy, West, here in the cockpit with me and we have a special guest. I’ll introduce her in a second, right, because I’ve got to get you all ready for this.
This week we have a special guest and we're going to talk about the messaging that attracts your clients, right? Because if you want to run profitable ads or if you want to create funnels that convert, or send out emails that turn leads into clients or get people to open your emails, it all starts with messaging. [01:00.3]
I don't think enough people talk about messaging. A lot of people talk about running new ads and doing YouTube ads, or creating content and you're going live and all that, and all that is great, but I don't think a lot of people focus enough on messaging. We actually have “the” best in the world when it comes to this particular topic. She's actually our in-house copy and messaging coach that actually converts, gets it in front of clients and brings them into the world.
She has also worked behind the scenes of some of the biggest campaigns, biggest influencers and entrepreneurs in the world, some of our favorites. She's actually the one behind the scenes writing copy that has helped generate these companies multiple millions of dollars, and she was actually also first with us. She started off as a CAU client. She came through Client Attraction University as a client, and then, of course, she came back and was like, Look, I want to join forces with you guys, and now she's our in-house partner in crime when it comes to amazing, amazing, amazing results. [02:01.5]
With that all being said, let's get into it. Cierra Seay. What’s good, Ci?
Cierra: What’s going on?
Marquel: Ci is super humble, y'all, so I’ve got to pop up for her, right? And I’m here for it. We're just going to go with it. Ci, before we get into it or let's get into actually, for those who may be hiding under a rock and they don't know who you are, tell everybody who you are and how you even got into this messaging game, the copywriting game.
Cierra: All right, I'm going to give y'all this short, condensed version. My name is Cierra Seay. I'm from Detroit, born and raised, still here. How did I get into the copy messaging game? Writing has always been a passion and a gift of mine. I went to Michigan State for journalism and advertising, and the advertising classes where I was introduced to what copywriting was—back then it was magazines, billboards, direct mail and things like that—it wasn't in the digital space as much. Probably around maybe 2000–2011, I can't remember exactly when, I started noticing the internet really becoming a huge part of what everybody was doing. You're getting more emails. You saw companies start sending out emails, and I'm like, Okay, what is this? [03:14.4]
I'm a nerd, so I literally just Googled one day online advertising. That's exactly what I googled and the word “digital marketing” popped up, and then it was like this infographic of what was needed to have an effective digital marketing campaign or company, and the first thing that popped up was copywriter.
I read what a copywriter was and I'm like, I think I could do that. I’ve been telling stories my entire life. Obviously, there are some other elements that go into it, but I already knew what those elements were from studying advertising. I started playing around with it, started studying. Obviously, found guys like Dan Kennedy, David Ogilvy, of course, from advertising class, and I just literally just started playing with it. Just started playing with it. [03:58.1]
Probably around 2014, I got my first shot at writing something for someone that would probably make an impact and it worked, and then it just kept working and kept working, and I just kept building and kept building. In 2018, I walked away from my job to do it full time, and here we are. It's been a roller coaster already, but, yeah, that's the short version.
Marquel: Good stuff. Look, y'all, don't take the humbleness for granted. All right, Ci, my first question. Let's just get right into the brass tacks and things, right? For those who are listening, most of them are coaches, consultants, service providers and so forth work and they're thinking, All right, how do I create better messaging? Let's start there. What would you say for those? They want to attract more of the ideal clients, right? Most people think they need that and that's part of it, but if people want to get more clients from a messaging standpoint, what's their first action step that they could start taking? [04:58.4]
Cierra: They really have to know who they want to attract. The more I pay attention to other coaches and consultants, and really studying, I feel like the main problem is people don't really know who they want to work with. They say they know, but they don't really know. You have to be super, super clear on who this perfect person is and don't worry about the other people who could possibly be that person.
You have to be crystal clear on who that person is, and I call it the sniping method where literally you write down, and you imagine this perfect person, what they do, how they dress, where they get their information from, all of those elements, and you focus and speak to that person. In my opinion, that is the absolute first step, really figuring out, Okay, who is this for? Who is this for and how can I help them?
Marquel: Got it. The first thing is figuring out exactly who your ideal client is, right, who you want. Who is this for? And then, once they know who that’s for, then what? [05:57.0]
Cierra: You have to know what their problem is and understand it thoroughly, not surface level, but thoroughly. You know how we always ask our clients what's keeping them up at night. You have to be able to answer the questions that they're not telling anybody, because most of the real problems they aren't telling anybody.
They're not telling their friends they may have to go out of business this year. They're not telling their friends that they're afraid to, to really get down, buckle down and lose weight, and that their confidence is low. They're not telling their friends that they’re waking up in the middle of the night eating ice cream because they're an emotional eater. They're just saying, Next year I'm going to lose 20 pounds, when it's way deeper than that, and to get to that level of understanding, you’ve got to really pay attention. You have to ask a lot of questions, but it's really just research.
I think that's one of the elements of messaging that people don't talk about enough. You really have to research, and there are ways to do it. Obviously, social media, back in the day they used to use… I forgot what they called it. They would literally order things based on who they thought their ideal client was, just to kind of dig into it, figuring out what their political affiliation was. [07:06.0]
It was way harder before digital marketing to really research your ideal client. You had to do a lot of digging. It would take them weeks, sometimes months, to just figure stuff out because they didn't have access the way we have access now.
Marquel: Good stuff. Good stuff. Once you know who your ideal client is and you know what's keeping them up at night, how do you take that intel that you now have and begin to turn it into messaging? Does that make sense?
Cierra: Do you mean how do you start writing it or…?
Marquel: Yeah, how do I start writing it?
Cierra: The next step, now you have to be clear on the true transformation you provide, you know what I mean? Don't start writing until you can honestly say, I know this is their problem and this is how I'm going to solve it. Once you're clear on their problem and how you can solve it, now you can sit down and start writing or creating content, or whatever you want to do to start speaking to them on an emotional level. [08:03.4]
Most people don't understand the true transformation either. They say, for example, like one of our clients, J. Lopez, he got to the point where he just wasn't saying he was a fitness coach. He was saying he helped entrepreneurs increase their productivity and focus because that's the true transformation. He just does it by way of getting you in shape from an internal and outside perspective.
A lot of people don't speak to their, to transformation, so now you have to sit down and say, Okay, I'm helping them solve their problem by doing this, but what is the real transformation? Even for me, I’ve gotten to a point where I kind of shifted my messaging because it's like, What am I really helping coaches and consultants with? And it's when they're launching these funnels, when they're running these ads, I'm helping them attract their ideal client, get more leads that turn into more sales. I'm not saying I'm just writing your copy. That means nothing to them. They want to know, Okay, you wrote my copy, and then what? [09:00.0]
Most coaches and consultants don't know how to…what's the word I'm looking for? They don't know how to say that within their messaging. They just say what it is that they do, especially in the fitness space. I'm seeing it so much in the fitness space where it's like you’ve got to figure it out.
Marquel: West, I don't want to hog it. Have you got some questions?
West: Yeah. What do you say to the person who says, Copy is not that important because I have the best product or service. I’ve got the best wings or I'm the best personal trainer east of the Mississippi. I don't really need copy. If I build it, they will come. What do you say to that person who's operating from 1986?
Cierra: That's not true, because if you pay attention to advertising, West, prime example, we've had discussions on your opinion that Android is better than Apple. Who has the best marketing? Apple does. Unfortunately, sometimes it's not even about if you're actually the best. It’s can you convey your message and can you deliver, and all the things that go on on the backend? But you can't survive without clear copy messaging, advertising, marketing, or whatever you want to call it. You're not going to survive without it now, at least now. [10:11.9]
West: People get a better understanding is copying under the marketing umbrella or is marketing under the copy umbrella?
Cierra: Copy is the actual words themselves. Messaging is your angle, your unique positioning. Copy is the actual words people see on your Facebook ads, on your website, on your landing pages. That's just a jargon word we use, but that's what it is. It's the actual wording. Then the copy writer is the person that writes it. We say messaging because of how we do it. We help you niche down, figure out your unique positioning, and then the copy is just going to support everything we’ve figured out on the messaging side.
Marquel: Understood. What would you say are the common mistakes you see? Because you've seen a lot of different areas in a lot of different businesses and you've got a ton of data. What would you say are the common mistakes people are making in their messaging and in their copy, whether that's email, social media ads or whatever that they may be overlooking? [11:08.5]
Cierra: They're not niched down enough that I think that's probably number one. They're not niched down. They're not speaking directly to who they want to talk to. Anybody who's on my email list, I started all my emails with, Hey, Coach. Now, is everybody on my list a coach? Probably not, but they will never be able to say that they don't know who I'm targeting. It’s just that simple.
So, not niched down, not speaking directly to their audience. What is another one? No call to actions in their messaging. Even if it's something as simple as share this or save it, you should always have a call to action in your messaging. Going back to the beginning, they don't really know who they're [talking to]. They're speaking to everybody, so they're not targeting, which means, in reality, they're not talking to nobody. You're talking to everybody, not talking to nobody. I see that a lot. Once I'm going to go back to the fitness space, because that's where I'm seeing it the most. Everybody wants to help people lose weight, but you can't be that vague in an industry that's super broad. You can't do that. You can't do it and win. [12:10.2]
West: Let me ask you this, Ci. Is there a difference between the copy that you would have online in the digital space compared to, say, print ad or direct mail?
Cierra: It depends. I think it depends on the industry and then it depends on what type of print. We're talking magazines. You notice magazine copy is normally bigger. It’s choppier, straight to the point because it's more imagery. Online for a sales page, it's going to be more words because there's more to go through. It really just depends. Direct mail, if we're talking a postcard, I think, once again, it depends on the industry.
Marquel: Y'all drop some questions in the chat. If y'all have got some questions, I want to ask this question and then I want to get into some questions if y'all have got any. If not, we can kind of keep going. Ci, what would you say are some of your favorite copywriting? [13:06.9]
Cierra: I mean, it is so crazy because I think three of them…two of them you’ve recommended. Making Ads Pay by John Caples, this one right here, this is a really good one for anybody who's brand new. It's nothing that I or you have never heard of, but this is a really good one for anybody that's brand new. Copyright Secrets by Jim Edwards.
This, I don't even think I’ve ever told you this. This is my real secret weapon, though, You've Got Style, and this is my secret weapon because this is a book based on personalities from the DiSC assessments. I don't tell a lot of people this, but I use a lot of what I know about the DiSC in my copy, because reality is there people fall into four different categories and they make decisions four different ways. You're either quick with the trigger. You either want a lot of information and research, and you go circle back around. You're either super, super decisive or you just want to want to make sure somebody's checking somebody out, but helps you understand people's personalities. [14:09.4]
At the end of the day, yes, there are a billion people in the world, but everybody falls up under four categories. Understanding how people make decisions, I play around with short emails, longer emails, depending on who I want to talk to for that day. Yes, I'm talking to coaches every day, but today am I talking to a coach who has a dominant personality? Does he make decisions slowly? Is it someone who make decisions super quickly just because they want to be a part of something? But yeah, this is my secret weapon, You've Got Style.
Then this is another one, a Dan Kennedy book, No B.S. Trust Based Marketing. Yeah, these are my…
West: Was that one pretty good?
Cierra: It is. It is. I like Dan Kennedy books. Yeah, it is, though. You could tell this was written a really long time ago, back when advertising was mainly print, but there are some gems in here. [15:04.6]
Marquel: I haven't been able to, and now I’ve just found it, and then I went on there to pull up You’ve Got Style. Is there one more? So, I went ahead and got that book.
Cierra; Yeah, and I think Cashvertising is in my bookbag, but that's the one you told me to get. I think what I love about this is he's focusing so much on headlines, which we know is huge in this space, so yeah.
Marquel: The Copywriter’s Handbook. West was telling me about this one.
Cierra: Is that by…?
Marquel: Robert Bly.
Cierra: Yeah.
Marquel: I tend to keep my books for this month right behind me.
Cierra: Yeah. I think I need to get some more, though. I’ve just been going back and forth between Cashvertising and Making Ads Pay. I'm like, I need to get some neurons until we write ours.
Marquel: Absolutely, definitely got to write ours.
Ciera: Yeah. [16:00.4]
Marquel: What’s an avatar?
Cierra: An avatar is really your ideal client that you make up. It's another word for saying you know who your ideal client is, but you literally make this person up. You'll hear people use the word “avatar” a lot, like when they're talking about figuring out your ; ideal client or who you want to target, but, yeah, that's all it is.
Marquel: Cool, so he’s just your ideal client. The list of books was Make Ads Pay by John Caples. It was You’ve Got Style, Copywriter’s Secrets and then Trust Based Marketing by Dan Kennedy.
Cierra: Gregory has asked, How often do you use all caps? That's a good question. For headlines, I don't know, normally all caps or bigger font. Within a sales page, if you want to want something to stand out, I
would say, all caps, underlined and bolded. It's really just on a case-by-case basis. Definitely don't write it in all caps, but it's when you want something to kind of hit hard, but I would say, it’s on a case-by-case basis. [17:01.4]
West: There’s a typo. She says, Any tips for writing copy on a sale page for a launch?
Cierra: What are you launching? That's a loaded question.
Marquel: Charlotte says, Should your ideal client be just one type of person or can it be two different types of people?
Cierra: I would say, start off with one. Most people, they struggle with this because in their mind, they're like, Whoa, it could be for anybody or it could be for everybody, or I’ve been working with these two, three types of people, right? It doesn't mean you can't work with people who aren't your ideal client, but when you're starting, figure out who the ideal client is and, as your business is growing and evolving, you can shift into the people that you're actually working with.
When I first started writing copy, I mean, I was working kind of for everybody. You could be at a beauty brand, e-commerce, but I got to a point where I was getting the most results with coaches and consultants. I actually liked working with coaches and consultants and I felt like that was literally my zone of genius. [18:01.1]
But if I wanted to, I could still work with anybody. It doesn't mean that I can't. But when you're targeting for messaging purposes, your ideal client should be as singular as you possibly can make it. Now, there are very few times where I would say, Okay, you can talk to these two people. The more clear and focused you are, and niched down, you'll attract more people automatically. So, don't think, Oh, because I'm writing this for a doctor, you can't go work with a nurse. That's not what it means.
Marquel: How often do you email your list? We recommend emailing your list daily, me personally. Which one would you say? Say the same thing?
Cierra: Yeah, I'm on a daily thing now. Every blue moon, I give them Saturday and Sunday off, but for me, at least five times a week, at least.
Marquel: What would you say for those who are like, Dang, an email a day, what's kind of the formula you would give somebody to write an email? What's the formula to write an email a day? [19:02.8]
Cierra: First, figure out what it is you want them to do with like, What's the true goal of the email? Are you just trying to give some information? Do you want them to book a call? Is it something that you're selling in the email? Start or begin with the end in mind. What is it you want them to do? Now, you know what you want them to do? I know for most of CAU stuff, the goal is to book a call. Now you know you want them to book a call. Now let's work our way backwards.
You want to know what you want them to do, but the content could be different depending on where you are. I would say, just to make this simple, start with value. Answer a question that you know someone has that they haven't asked. Answer the question. Give them value. Give a call to action.
Open with a question or a statement. Answer the question or a statement. Call to action. That's super vague, but I don't want to confuse people, because it really depends. It just depends. But, I would say, that's the simplest formula, and then from there you create your subject line after and be creative. You can be controversial, but you’ve got to get them to open it, so that the subject line is actually the most important. [20:12.6]
West: All right, cool. Edgar asks, After you create your avatar, what's the best way to test refine messaging before running ads?
Cierra: You can't refine it until you launch it. Now you know your avatar. You know what your offer is. If you're running an ad, you have to get them excited enough to click on the ad to go to the next step, but you can't refine anything until you actually launch it.
What I would say is, once you collect the data, we're really big on data and it's so funny hearing myself talk like this because I hate numbers. I used to hate this stuff, but once you collect the day-to-day, you look. Okay, am I talking to the people I want to talk to? Am I just not getting enough people to opt in? It depends on what your ad is going to, but based on that information, you will be able to see, Okay, is it the ad copy? Is it my landing page? It really just depends on how the formula of your funnel is and where it's leading into. There are so many variables in that, but the data tells you the truth. [21:17.5]
West: Great. Coach, running the ads, what is key for you with follow-up emails?
Cierra: Consistency. Consistency is probably the most important when it comes to follow-up emails, because what people don't realize, especially if you guys are trying to do high ticket, people are really just seeing how long you're going to stick around before they buy it and seeing if you're the real deal.
If you lack consistency in something that's as simple as following up and providing valuable information, and sharing your wins, sometimes people are like, If they can't do that, then people will literally sit on your email list for a year before they actually buy something from you. They have to assess all the time.
But consistency is key. Don't get so caught up in “Oh, is this paragraph too long? Is it too short? Does this make sense?” I mean, people care about it, but the consistency is the most important element. [22:11.5]
West: Ci, can you talk about what you said about fitness professionals? It's not really about losing weight, in parentheses, (what the client thinks they want.) It's actually about gaining confidence and feeling better, and being able to run around with your kids.
Cierra: Right, so that's perfect if you're targeting women who have had a baby within the last one or two years, so fitness professionals, there are so many pockets that they can go into. You can work with people who haven't been able to lose weight since they were a child. You can work with moms who have recently had a baby. You could work with high-level businessmen who want the six pack.
The reality is everybody doesn't want the six pack. Some people have never been able to lose weight or some people are doing it because they need more confidence. I know people who work out because it's literally the only thing that they can do without thinking, so it's a stress reliever. They don't care about if the waist gets small. They just like to do it to relieve their mind. [23:10.4]
I think you have to figure out as a fitness instructor, Which pocket do you want to go in? Because there are people who want the six pack. There are people who want the beach body. But do you want people who are trying to turn it into a lifestyle or do you want people who are trying to lose 10 pounds because they’re birthday is in 90 days? Those are two different groups of people and I know fitness professionals that work in all of those groups. I know one guy. He specialized in telling people, 90 days, you get into the dress for your birthday. Then I know a girl whose whole thing is lifestyle. She's like, We're not even at the scale. We're trying to get right spiritually, mentally, and physically, and I'm going to help you along the way. Then you’ve got people like J. who wants to work with entrepreneurs because being in shape increases productivity on our levels. [24:00.3]
West: I see. [Inaudible] says, If a person is providing a service like a commercial cleaning company, do you think emails are effective, meaning, you're just targeting local clients?
Cierra: Commercial cleaning company write emails? I think they are effective. It's just making sure that email is going to the right person within the organization, but I believe they are effective. It's another one of those things you're staying at the top of your mind.
Marquel: Agreed.
Marquel: The strategy may have to be different, but, yeah.
Marquel: Is there a one-stop shop for funnels? I can't seem to find my target and advertise to them. Also, what's the best way to build an email list to get leads?
Cierra: The best way to build an email list is with a valuable lead magnet and I'm not talking about an e-book. I'm not talking about an e-book, but a super valuable lead magnet. You’ve got to get super, super creative. If you are in CAU, you would know the type of lead magnets we use.
Marquel: For sure. For sure. All right, one more last question that came in with two more questions. I'm going to wrap up here in about three minutes. I want to respect Ci's time. What are some great platforms to pull clients such as Thumbtack? [25:07.1]
Cierra: If you go on straight, trying to hit a cold audience, Facebook ads is what… Yeah, nothing better than that.
Marquel: Absolutely. Is it better versus emailing customers when it comes to gourmet snacks?
Cierra: What would you be texting?
Marquel: Can she give an example of copy that’s talking to everybody as opposed to how it should be worded niched down?
Cierra: When I say talking to everybody, meaning, you're not being specific, point like saying what their actual problems are. You're just being very vague, very general. For example, for somebody who has said they want to work with entrepreneurs, but you're not saying what type of entrepreneur, right? That's like now you're talking to every type of entrepreneur, which is not really wise.
Marquel: For sure.
Cierra: Some of your questions y'all might have to…because they saw loaded, y'all might have to DM.
Marquel: Yeah, and Ci’s IG is Cierra Seay, C-I-E-R-R-A S-E-A-Y? [26:12.4]
Cierra: Yeah.
Marquel: C-I-E-R-R-A S-E-A-Y. Make sure you connect with Ci on Facebook and Instagram because she’s got a lot of dope stuff. Are funnels required to attract more clients?
Cierra: I wouldn't say require, but if you're serious about your marketing, I think you should, for sure, have one. Your funnel doesn't have to look like everyone else’s. How we build our clients’ funnels all don't look like everyone else’s. Most people don't even realize it's a funnel. I'm not going to get into what we don't do, but, I would say, if you're serious about your marketing and having an all-out marketing machine, you should, for sure, have a funnel, but like I said, it doesn't have to look like everyone else's. It doesn't have to go through the same steps as everyone else's either. [26:57.7]
Marquel: Last question before we wrap up. For those who are listening and they're considering working with us, because you kind of got two perspectives. You’ve got a perspective as a client going through CAU, what it did for your business, and you have a perspective as a coach at CU and what you're seeing happening to other clients. What feedback would you have for those who are listening right now and may be considering coming to CAU or shooting us a DM, or working with us? What kind of feedback or insights would you give them?
Cierra: From a client perspective? This is from both perspectives. There is nothing out there like CAU. Nothing like it out there. Yes, we help you create an online marketing machine, but I think the most important element that we don't really touch on is that we help you become a real-life CEO. There are so many things at CAU that we don't market because obviously it's for the people who are in it, but it's hard for me to sometimes even put into words what it is. [28:00.5]
So, I’ll say this. On the client end, from a client perspective, if you are a service provider, coach or consultant, and you're not getting quality people, if you're chasing people for money, if you don't have a real marketing plan or marketing system, there isn't a better option, in my opinion. I was in other programs before becoming a CAU client.
Then from a coach perspective, it's the best of the best we've got. It’s literally the best of the best. The customer support is unmatched. A lot of times I'm even impressed. We did that in 30 minutes. We really, really care about our clients. For example, I had a one-on-one call with one of our clients this morning. She was tied up. Technically, my schedule is closed after 3:00 p.m. She tells me what was going on. She and I are meeting later. We don't say, Oh, you can't do it, that said. We really care about our clients. We don't feel like we're winning unless you're winning. That's why you see all the client success stories and they are real. They are all real, and we’re in it for the long haul. Yeah. I hope I explained that right. [29:09.8]
Marquel: For sure. We appreciate you so much. Hope you got a ton of value. Have a phenomenal day because you absolutely deserve it. Talk to you soon.
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