There's two types of people who hear consensual sales in the first go, Oh, Eww, Shawna, that is not what you want to say. There are better words to use and the second type hear consensual sales and say, you know what? You're right. I don't want to talk my way into the sale. I don't want to memorize a script. You just want to work with clients who are excited to work with you. Now that's consensual sales.
Hey, have you ever struggled to say what's on your mind, those tough conversations where you really want to say something because internally you might be struggling, but you just don't know how to do it without it being awkward. This comes up over and over again in your sales life, but it can also come up in your sex life. And so I actually am bringing on Hannah Rosemary of sex, positive sketchbook on Instagram.
(00:48): She is a client of mine inside of speakeasy, our premium membership community. And we're all talking about how to say what's on your mind, whether that's in sales or in your intimate relationships, or even we even talk about, you know, things that happen in your, and you know, in parenting. So this is going to be a topic that applies to all different types of areas in your life. When you struggle to say what's on your mind, all right. And remember, if you want to access the consensual sales framework, the 3.5 steps to booking clients, check that firstname.lastname@example.org. Will you tell us how you got to this place where you're teaching people, how to say what's on their mind? Yeah, I guess it's a lot about my own personal journey over the past sort of few years or so of exploring different ways of doing relationships and different ways of relating to people, genuinely exploring my own sexuality, exploring open relationships, polyamory, and having to get really, really good at being able to do communication really well because when you're exploring and navigating different ways of doing this stuff, you have to really know yourself and be able to talk about that with other people.
(01:59): Otherwise, everything just kind of breaks down. So yeah, that's how my own kind of personal journey contributed to this interest and realizing how much there is to offer other people who are navigating similar things, but also who are just kind of going about doing relationships in the more kind of traditional way, whether that's with partners, whether that's with friends at work. I think there's so much that we can learn about doing communication in more authentic ways that doesn't feel awkward or weird. So that just felt like a really important thing for me to start offering people. Yeah. I think we have sort of similar understandings of like navigating awkward conversations that most people like don't know how to have, you know, my experience was sort of facilitating after death decisions about tissue donation and that skillset easily applied to business. And that's kind of what I wanted to bring you on here is because you have been helping people facilitate like those sort of like, I dunno what to say here. I don't know how to really communicate what I'm thinking inside of like intimate relationships, right? Yeah,
(03:02): Yeah, yeah. And it's when it comes to sex and relationships that a lot of this stuff really comes to the forefront and, and with sales as well. So we've kind of got these two different contexts, but navigating the same topic.
(03:14): When did you realize that not being able to communicate what was on your mind a problem, like when did you say I really need to, well, I'm wondering two things. When did you notice that not being able to communicate what was on your mind a problem, and then what, what sort of made you decide to start exploring ways to be a better and a more effective communicator?
(03:35): So I think the moment for me was when I realized that I just wasn't having the kinds of relationships that I wanted to be having. So it was kind of having experiences where I was stuck in patterns in relationships. So the same things were happening over and over again. I was hitting the same blocks in my relationships. Communication was always breaking down in the same way. I wasn't really getting what I wanted. Nobody was particularly happy. It was that this fight and just kind of waking up to that fact, just noticing like, Hey, there's a pattern here that I'd really like to do something about. I'd like to be having more satisfying relationships. And so the kind of pathway out of that for me, was partly starting to explore and read about polyamory in different ways, doing relationships and being in relationship with multiple people at the same time and doing that in ethical ways and starting to learn about how different people are doing communication and all the stuff that we're not taught in school about being able to be vulnerable with each other and being able to do that in a way that feels safe.
(04:32): And I think a lot of this comes down to safety, right? If you're feeling safe and confident and secure in yourself, then you can have vulnerable conversations. You can bring up stuff that feels awkward because you're not afraid of what the outcome is going to be because you know that you've always got yourself.
(04:48): I like jumping up a little bit because this is the answer. Like again, totally different sort of realms and industries, but this is the same principle that we're trying to emphasize in sales or in consensual sales, which is if you can focus on the environment where somebody feels safe to say what they're thinking and feeling that will help facilitate the sale because the sale itself is just being really honest about what you want and you're helping that person get what they want. Right. And so again, if you can focus on the environment in which people feel safe, you can almost have any conversation.
(05:24): Right? Absolutely. And I think there's a lot to be said for being able to feel safe in yourself and that helps other people feel safe with you. So if you're approaching somebody from a place of feeling quite emotional and quite reactive, then the other person's going to pick up on that. But if you can regulate yourself and feel safe and confident in yourself and learn those skills to be able to handle yourself, then other people pick up on that too, and we'll feel safer and more relaxed with you.
(05:50): Yeah. So some of, so to tie this into sales, like the best thing that you can do in terms of getting the sale is to focus on your own inner work, right? Like it really starts with you. So I'd love to know, can you elaborate a little bit more with that? Like if you want to say what's on your mind or like, you know, creating this kind of safe environment, how can you facilitate that growth within, inside?
(06:12): Yes. So it comes from this point of safety, right? And so I think so many of us are not taught how to feel safe with our emotions. So we get caught up in emotional responses, or we kind of default to this reactivity because we don't have experiences of being able to really feel safe in ourselves and be able to hold our emotions and move through them. So we ended up getting stuck in difficult emotions, whether that's frustration or anger or sadness, or even feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness. And we don't have the tools to be able to pull ourselves out of those States. We don't necessarily trust that we can. So the process that I work with is in helping people to firstly, understand what those States look like, what are your triggers? What brings you into States where you might get reactive, or maybe you want to run away and then working with each of those States in turn to find out like, okay, what do you actually need in that state? What is the fear that you have? What are the stories you're telling yourself? What are those beliefs that you have when you're triggered into fear or sadness or whatever it is, and how can we find tools to meet that fear and to bring you out of it so that you're meeting those needs yourself and not just kind of getting lost and hijacked in some emotional response.
(07:33): I love the concept of like isolating the feeling and then, or like isolating the sort of trigger, the emotional response that you have. And then working through that little bit, rather than like this big sort of scary conversation that like, you don't know what to do, or you don't know what you need, your, your brain kind of shuts off, maybe even, but like really isolating and working with tools, that's going to help that specific thing. That's really going to impact the big thing.
(07:58): And I love what you just said about your brain shutting down. Cause that's literally what happens when we get triggered into some of these emotional responses, like the part of your brain that allows you to think rationally and to make measured choices, literally just kind of comes offline. So you don't have access to that bit of your brain anymore. And all you have access to is your kind of, we talk about the sort of lizard brain, like the much older bit that evolved. First of all, that wants us to survive most of all. So it would get triggered into these emotional responses as a way to survive, even if the, the threat that we're feeling, whether it's an awkward conversation or whatever is not actually not really a threat to our lives, but we can perceive it that way. And so we lose this ability to actually think rationally and to actually think through a situation in a, in a more reasonable way. And so when we can notice the moments when that's happened and instead of going along with it, realize that we have a choice to regulate our own emotional responses. Then we can bring ourselves to a place where we can start to think rationally again.
(08:59): Is there a reason why you like this work?
(09:03): I find it endlessly fascinating. And I guess the thing that keeps me going a lot is when I'm with clients and I'm guiding people through this process and seeing all the little like aha moments that people have when they're starting to learn more about their emotional responses and not only how they're operating in the present moment in the adult lives, but also how it connects with childhood experiences that they might've had and how their emotions might have been handled and dealt with by parents, caregivers, family members, and starting to connect those dots between childhood experiences and how we show up as adults in our relationships and seeing the moments where people can start to piece these things together and find more compassion for themselves because they understand where these patterns have come from is so infinitely rewarding. So that's a big part of it for sure.
(09:54): What patterns have you noticed in childhood that rear its head as an adult in relationships later?
(10:00): Hm. Yeah. So when we don't have experiences of having our emotions kind of validated and responded to as kids, that's typically how these things show up. So a good example might be if your boundaries are not respected as a child. So a common example that people talk about is with a tickling, for example, like if, if you're tickled mercilessly as a kid and you are not really enjoying it, but you're not able to communicate that, or you are communicating it and your parents or whoever it is, is not respecting that, then you might internalize a belief that your boundaries will not be respected and that you can't say no. And that you just have to go along with whatever people you're in relationship with one. And so that can lead to patterns of people pleasing as adults. And there's bigger things as well, like sort of being encouraged to do lots of activities, for example, as a kid, perhaps against what you really want to be doing.
(11:01): But if your parents are kind of pushing you into doing lots of things and performing to a particular standard, whether that's academically or whether that's in a sport or a musical activity, then again, we grew up with this internalized belief that our wants are actually not as important as the other person's once and that I need to necessarily be respected. And so these things can seem quite kind of small and mundane when we talk about them, but they can lead to some quite difficult beliefs and stories that we carry into into adulthood around not being able to assert what we actually need and fears around saying no and beliefs that if we do say no, or if we do ask us something that we really want, that we will be shut down or that affection might be withdrawn or that the other person will go away. So I guess a lot of it comes down to boundaries and this inability to speak up for what we want being connected to not having safe experiences of that in childhood,
(11:56): He's like really convicted. We have a daughter who has been insisting for like a year to do gymnastics. And we have put all the kids in Brazilian jujitsu for years and years and years. That's like, kind of like my husband's thing, but it's also because of I'm like, I can't run around like all these different, like sport practice, right. It's like, I can't, it's like, it's just kind of crazy, but she's been saying that she wants to quit and it's weird because like when she's there, she seems to like it. So this is this random story I've been talking to my husband about this. Like how can we help her? Like, I don't want to have to take her to jujitsu if she is insisting for over a year that she doesn't. And I never really thought about it, like affecting her ability to communicate later into adulthood about like, not being able to express what she wants or feeling like she might, you know, we would withdraw affection or something. Yeah.
(12:44): I think it's a balance. And I think it's about continuing to have those conversations with your kids about what it is they want and understanding and teaching them that they have choice and that their feelings and that their needs are being considered not necessarily a black and white thing of saying like, Oh, this one thing happened, therefore they're going to grow up with disbelief kind of patterns and the kind of communication that you have with them as well.
(13:07): Absolutely. From your perspective, why is it important for people to say what's on their mind anyway, and to be able to express their needs and desires?
(13:16): I think it comes down to the concept of intimacy being about being able to share yourself with another person. And if we want to enjoy deeper connection and deeper intimacy with people, then we need to be able to share ourselves and to be able to let another person into our experience. And so if we're unable to get in touch with what we want and ask for it, then we're shutting off a big part of ourself from another person. I like to think of it as like the most important thing that you bring to when your relationship is your connection with yourself. So if you're not able to connect with yourself and your own needs, then you're denying another person from being able to do that as well. So I think it's really important to be able to identify what you want and say it out loud, because that's how we relate to each other. That's how we connect. That's how we met another person into our experience and allow them to see more of us. And that's really vital. I think if we want to enjoy relationships where there's real intimacy and depth and connection,
(14:17): I think that this is another underlying sales problem, is that all of a sudden, there's sort of this pressure to perform. If I'm able to communicate and like get the sale, there's all this, like, I dunno, like, yeah, just there's this ongoing baggage of like all of a sudden I have to perform because I got the stale or I'm, you know, I've got all these like really high expectations.
(14:38): Yeah. Performance is a huge one. And I see that a lot in relationships and in sex, especially like we have so many hang ups in expectations around what relationships and what sex should look like that get in the way of what we really want and what we can really share with another person. And it's when we're able to drop those expectations that we can really enjoy what's going on. And it's also, I think about like getting caught up in either worrying about the future or ruminating on the past, right? So either like worrying about what's going to happen and what might happen or getting fixated on maybe bad things that might have happened in the past. And it's this kind of inability to actually stay with the present moment and be like, well, is that actually, is any of that actually happening right now? Not necessarily. And just staying with like the experience of what's happening in the moment. And I can find some times that that's a really helpful tool to be able to just kind of reorient in those moments, like things a little bit sticky or a little bit challenging, just reminding myself like, Oh, hang on, am I actually worried about something that's happening right now in this moment? Or am I worrying about something that might happen, but also might not.
(15:50): And when you can trust yourself and you have these like effective communication skills, you can facilitate that conversation when it comes up. Right. So it's like, well, if there is a problem or if something isn't quite right, like I have the ability to talk about it and figure out a solution when that time.
(16:07): Yeah. So it comes back to this idea of feeling secure in yourself, feeling self-confident knowing that whatever the outcome from that conversation, you're going to be able to handle it because you've got the tools and you've got everything that you need already.
(16:19): It's a common misconception that your clients come to you with, that you just like to set the record straight.
(16:26): Hmm. I think the biggest one that comes up for me is that things are never going to change that if your relationships have always been one particular way, they're always going to be that way. There's nothing you can do about it. You're at the mercy of these patterns. You're at the mercy of your own emotions and this is just the way you are and the way that you're always going to be. And that's just not true. There's so many ways that we can learn how to regulate ourselves better. And we can learn how to develop more confidence in our own ability to hold ourselves. And I've seen this both in myself with the people that I work with with other people in my personal life that we can learn and we can change. It's not kind of this stuff is not genetically coded. We can have the ability to change the way that our brain works and response to challenging situations. By going through this process of identifying what's really going on and identifying what our fears really are and learning how to meet the needs that we have. So that we're not kind of at the mercy of these patterns that we've been experiencing up to this point,
(17:28): Who is an ideal client for you, and what problem do they have to have for them to be a good fit for what you offer?
(17:34): My ideal client is a women in their thirties and forties. Who've started to notice that they've got someone helpful patterns in their relationships. So maybe they're noticing that they're giving more of themselves, that they would really like to they're feeling frustrated. They're feeling like they're not really getting their own needs met. And they've noticed that this has been going on for awhile and it's feeling draining. It's feeling exhausting. Nobody's really taking care of their needs. And they want to do something about it. They've realized that this is something that they don't want to live with all their lives. And they want to really start making some changes and start shifting some of these patterns.
(18:12): And where can they find you if you are that lady, if you are listening and you want to reach out to Hannah, Hannah, will you tell us where we can find you and while they can make those attempts?
(18:21): Absolutely. I'm at Hannahrosemary.co.uk. I'm also on Instagram at sex positive sketchbook. And yet you're welcome to send me an email, follow me on Instagram. I have a mailing list as well, where I'm sending out guides and resources for how you can start to actually shift some of this stuff yourself, because there's lots that you can do on your own. Well, having the support of myself or somebody else who does similar work to me is super beneficial and will speed this process up hugely. Yeah. A lot of the resources that I publish on my website and on my Instagram are really helpful ways of starting to think about some of this stuff and starting to understand what's going on for you in a little bit more depth.
(19:02): Absolutely. Don't be shy. Like you can send him a message, like everything is confidential. So she's a great person to connect with. And Hannah, before we go, I ask everybody this one question and it's, when is the last time somebody sold you or something that you were so thankful for that they did?
(19:21): So I think the first thing that comes to mind actually is not a specific incident, but there's a company here who I bought so much of their stuff. I'm their biggest advocate. They're an outdo like clothing, camping equipment company here in the UK called out kit. And the reason they come to mind is because they do such a good job of communicating why they do what they do and what's important to them and their values. And they show all their behind the scenes stuff and they show all the stuff that their staff are doing. And they just do such a great job of really kind of making you care about their mission. So I recommend them to everybody and they've had lots of money so far, and that always my go to for anything kind of like camping or climbing. So yeah, I think they do a really great job of that
(20:08): Climb. Like, are you a rock climber?
(20:09): I do. I really enjoy. Yeah. Lately. It's been quite a big hobby for the last few years and this dissatisfied and sometimes very frustrating for them.
(20:22): Oh, that's so I actually follow like, like live vicariously through the rock climbers on Instagram videos and things. This is so awesome. And I appreciate you in this conversation and how impactful your ability to communicate affects man, your sex life, your relationships, it affects the things that are happening in your sales and your ability to book clients. And so I know that this message is gonna resonate with a lot of people.
(20:48): Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
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