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Erika Mosse is a mother, a journalist, a speaker, and a facilitator who works diligently to champion small businesses and women in the trades.

Show highlights include:

  • Why a slow down in the marketplace can position you for better growth (5:45)
  • The threat of private equities buying up smaller companies (and what this means for the future of construction) (15:55)
  • The two things that every construction company should focus on for exponential growth (21:00)
  • This “Mindset” shift will build a company that thrives (without you being there) (20:00)
  • How to avoid “The great resignation” from happening within your company (33:30)
  • The “burnout prevention” technique to do with your team (and to have fun in the process) (35:20)
  • 2X your response rates for maximum profit with this one trick (24:15)

To connect with our guest please visit our Contact Page at https://buildernuggets.com and we’ll make a personal introduction.

To get the most out of this podcast, head over to https://buildernuggets.com and join our active community of like-minded builders and remodelers.

Read Full Transcript

Finally, the word is starting to get out that this is a field with enormous opportunity.

(00:08): Welcome to builder nuggets, hosted by Duane Johns and Dave young. Hey, our mission is simple, build freedom. We're a couple of entrepreneurs, turn business coaches who have dedicated ourselves to helping our builder remodel. Our clients create the most rewarding businesses in the industry. My co host Duane has been a successful builder and remodeler for over 30 years. He's seen the highs and the lows from the beginning though. Duane has been on a quest to find a better way to run a contracting business in 2016, he found that better way. That's how I met Dave, a lifelong entrepreneur and visionary who measures his success by the success of those around him. He reached out one day with a formula on how to transform my business. And the rest is history. Since then, we've teamed up to help hundreds of contractors like you build better businesses and better lives. And now we've decided to open up our network and share our secrets so we can start moving the needle with you. It's collaboration over competition. Each week we bring together industry peers and experts who share their stories so that we can all build freedom together.

(01:11): Prior to joining pro remodeler in 2014, today's guest was the editorial director for Hanley woods pool group, a collection of media brands serving the swimming pool construction market. Now she's director of content for pro remodeler, a national media brand that reaches over 90,000 residential remodelers, a passionate advocate for small businesses. She's a leader with more than 20 years experience as a speaker, journalist and facilitator. I'm excited to welcome Erica mosey to today's show. Welcome Erica. Hey, Good to be here, Erica. You and I met at the NIH B spring leadership meetings in Washington, DC. Back in June, it was a great week of networking and collaborating. You know, I think the intent and hoping to shape where NHB and the industry are headed as we move forward. So what have you been up to since then, and, you know, gimme your pulse on the industry as you see it right now? Oh Gosh. Well, there's a lot going on. NA H B I actually like attending those meetings quite a bit. They're we are their media partner and it's just been a fantastic partnership. We have the opportunity to get to know a lot of the folks there and they really do have their finger on the pulse of the industry in a lot of ways. And I think that the remodeling industry right now is in a period of change. It's, it's, there's been a lot of uncertainty, certainly going into COVID coming out of this COVID experience that we're all in a lot of regional differences. I'm seeing leads are softening in some markets and other markets they're remaining strong. So there doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern across the country. One thing that's actually affecting the remodeling market quite a bit, I think is people are leaving California.

(02:47): They're selling their homes for a bunch of money. Then they're taking all that money and they got in home equity and they're buying houses in other areas of the country and remodeling them. And that is happening. That's affecting other markets I've spoken to where modelers in Nashville and St. Louis parts of the Carolinas, even parts of New England, where one doesn't expect to see a whole lot of people moving there. And there, that pattern is starting to certainly Texas, that pattern is starting to really assert itself. So there's just a lot of little interesting currents happening in the industry right now. Yeah. We're seeing similar things, you know, I have the, uh, opportunity and I'm, I'm fortunate to work with builders and remodelers all across north America. And it is interesting, you know, there's certain markets that are definitely feeling it. Other markets, markets that are, you know, haven't missed a beat. One thing that's interesting that we've seen is that, you know, obviously the interest rates have got people spooked a little bit, but it's like our, anyone that has cash clients, it's, it's almost like the cash clients are in some ways almost doubling down. Like they can't get started fast enough, but people that have to, or are considering financing, they're the ones pumping the breaks. They're really giving it some thought. And in some cases pulling projects off the table. So it's an interesting dynamic.

(04:02): Oh my gosh. I have seen that very much. What I'm also hearing out there is people who are wanting to sort of sell stocks to pay for their remodeling projects is maybe not happening so much right now. I think that people whose wealth is really tied into this stock market, especially people working in like the tech sector very closely are also getting a bit spooked. Whereas people, as you said, who just have a lot of liquidity are, are very, are much more comfortable. I'm hearing the exact same thing For, you know, years. I'm fortunate that I'm involved in both building and remodeling. And, but I do feel that it's, I, I feel like we're almost in a rebirth with remodeling and I think COVID generated some of that. I think it gave that opportunity for people to, you know, they hunkered down, they were in their homes and for years I think a lot of the construction was, yeah, there's pretty things on Instagram. And I want some stuff like I like my neighbor's house might be or things like that, but COVID gave him a chance to wait a minute. I really want to think about the way I live in this house, you know? And, and so I think there's gonna be a lot of that. I think there's gonna be a lot of folks that the home has become the sanctuary. Again, it's become, you know, it really is the biggest asset for most people. And I think just almost in a romantic way, you know, people are really gonna be thinking about their homes and putting money into homes. So I've, I'm overall, I'm, I'm very positive for remodeling and, and where it's going. Although obviously I think we do have some short term bumps in the road here to navigate. So in

(05:33): A way I, I agree. And in a way I don't even think the short term bumps are necessarily a bad thing because for so long, there have been more leads than people could handle. And so what's happening now is people are able to get to those leads and qualify. Those leads more quickly and more smoothly and speed to lead is so important in this market. So I actually think a little bit of a course correction is not a bad thing. No, not at all. And, and as I tell a lot of the folks that I work with, it's a, it's, it's really the opportunity to, now's the time for you to take a deep breath, turn the dials, work on your business. You know, look at those things that might be, might need a little bit of help because all in all, it's going to be positive going forward, you know, and what better time to, to kind of catch up, you know, it's a time to work on your trade base, work on some of your internal systems and processes and just get yourself ready for, you know, what goes down will go up. It's it's, it's it's business, it's a business cycle. We've seen it over and over again. So prepare yourself for, you know, when this thing turns around, starts to go the other way. So,

(06:36): Yeah. Agreed. And, and also I think, look at not, not take too hard of a look, but there's some remodelers I speak with that are maybe thinking about subs they've used for a long time and during like the supply chain shortage. And during these crazy times when nobody could get any help, some of those subs really raised their prices prohibitively high, and now might be a good time to maybe go back and try to get that other bid, try to talk to yourself a little bit and see if you could get them to rethink some of their pricing, just, just in case the bumps are, are coming. And you just wanna shore up your cash a little bit, pay down some credit card debt. I think now is a great time to start thinking in those terms. So for the listeners out there, maybe just give us a little bit of background. How did you end up getting into the industry? Tell us a little bit about your story.

(07:25): So the pool industry, the jump from the pool industry to the remodeling industry is not a huge one. The industries are aligned in some ways in that it's dominated by small family owned businesses. It's a business where you're going into someone's home and doing work. That's very disruptive to their home. And it's a business that is, you know, relies largely on subcontract, labor and, uh, is somewhat involved in discretionary spending. And so the jump from one to the other, wasn't huge, but what was huge is the relative complexity of the remodeling market as compared to the pool market? Oh my gosh. I had no idea when I came into this market that, you know, there are maybe 30,000 pool builders in the United States and there is probably more than three times that in the remodeling field. So I had sort of a, I was like the kid, you know, the farm kid coming into the city with the big wide eyes when I first arrived in this industry. And it was awesome. It's been an awesome ride. I love the remodeling industry. I really, really enjoy just the level of excellence in so many of the business people that I've gotten to know. And, um, it's been a great learning experience for me.

(08:46): So tell us about some of the, you know, maybe some of the struggles you had within the industry, and that could be anything that could just be from learning some about the industry, as you, you said maybe some of that transition around, what is it specifically around remodeling could even be, you know, your own personal experiences within it. Just tell us some of the things that you've overcome over the last, you know, decade or so. So I think this is incredibly interesting and indicative of our times when I first came into the remodeling industry, I felt that, um, so my, my former boss SAEL FAO, who's kind of, um, very well known in remodeling and was a long time editor and a remodeler himself for many years when he sort of introduced me around. I noticed that like people would give him a lot of eye contact and not me and people, or I would ask a question and they would actually like a look at him at while they were answering the question. And at first I thought it was because I was a relative newcomer, but then I noticed that it was happening. Like every time I was with a man and I realized, wait a minute, this is a gender thing, but, okay. So, that happened for maybe three years or so three, four years, but by 20 18, 20 17, 20 18, I noticed that it was stopping. It was slowing down and it was stopping. And I think that in recent days there has been less and less sort of discriminatory thinking and behavior that is gender based in our industry and more and more acceptance and welcoming, um, ideas about bringing women into the industry. I think that the labor shortage certainly factored into that, but I also think that we're just, perhaps I'm being naively optimistic, but I don't think so. I think we're coming into a new era where people, um, aren't looking, people are looking at women as yeah. You know, absolutely own a business. Absolutely. Be a tradesperson, absolutely be a project manager, you know, there's just a different attitude about it and I have felt it.

(10:50): Yeah. And I think you're spot on. I mean, I've, and I think things like this, not necessarily this podcast, but I mean, podcasts in general, social media, the, the outlets for collaborating, sharing, talking. I think one of the big changes is the fact that we're just maybe grown up enough to talk about it now. Yes. You know, cause I've been in the industry now, well over 30 years and I know all about, you know, the struggles on job sites and just the different, uh, you know, perceptions that people have. But you know, I work with quite a few females and, and, and, and that several, the work with, within my company that I own here in Charlotte and they're rock stars, you know, and, and you, you, once, once you get past the, you know, the gender and all this other stuff and just start treating each other as equal, you know, teammates and get on the same page with things like core values and mission, and why are you, why are you here? Why are you doing this? A lot of that other stuff goes away, the noise disappears, you know, and it's just, to me, it's, it's amazing to bring the perspectives of all the other people, you know, to the table. It's just so powerful. And, and I see it with, like I said, through the interviews that I do here on this podcast, being involved with NIH, B NA all different types of industry groups. And as you get to the people that are at, when I say higher level, I mean, I think people that are taking the time to work on themselves, work on their businesses, work on personal growth. You find that the successful people are the ones that are out there putting it out there. Yes. They're putting it out there to talk about, to share. They're not hiding it. They're not, it's not driven by ego. So yeah, I think it's a, that's huge opportunity. And I think it's just a huge positive for sure.

(12:29): Well, and you know, to your point about women, our women in residential construction conference that we do alongside of with pro builder is coming up on October 19th through 21st in San Diego. And that conference sold out and we had to ex we had to open up more space for it, and it sold out really fast and we've been doing it for a number of years and we've never had any problem filling it, but it's never happened this quickly. And with this level of enthusiasm, I think more women are entering the industry. And I think more women are getting excited about the industry. And that's just really wonderful to see, You know, you've got the opportunity to present at, at conferences you're involved with O obviously different media outlets. What do you see, or what would you say are some of the most popular topics that you talk about that you guys present and maybe the, the response to some of that stuff as well? Are you seeing any changes? So it's really interesting. So for me personally, it depends largely on the event. So for instance, I will be speaking at the international builders show in early next year. And for that, I'm just gonna kind of do like a state of the industry, because that is, you know, you're pulling from people all over the country. Uh, it's a big audience. People wanna know what to expect in 2023. And so I feel like that's a very, it's gonna be a very popular topic. Those topics always seem to do well in that type of venue. Um, I am speaking at the women in residential construction conference that I mentioned earlier, and I'm gonna be doing a talk on how to have your values as a business, how to incorporate those values into the fabric of the business. How do you bake them into your business? It's not enough to just have your values written somewhere on your website and then set it and forget it.

(14:29): You have to really make it part of what your team celebrates and believes in and embraces. So speaking on a very practical level, how do you do that? And, um, I'm really excited about the topic. I did something similar at, um, pro, which is the professional remodeling organization at their women's conference last year. And it was, it was great. And so, um, a topic like that, I think generates quite a bit of interest. I think we're in a time in our history in a time in our culture where people are becoming increasingly interested in incorporating their values into their business. And I don't mean values like necessarily your personal values, although certainly a value like integrity would be one of them, but just making your business count for something really putting excellence and meaning into what you do. And so that I think is a great topic on, on the replacement contracting side, which is an audience that we also reach. So windows and roofing siding and decking, those types of things, you're seeing enormous amounts of private equity activity coming in private equity companies are buying those businesses. And a lot of people are looking at other areas of the business, you know, design build. Is it going to go there? Is that money not gonna go there? What does that mean? And I think that I did a talk at the international roofing expo last year about this entrance of private equity and really historic numbers into the home improvement industry and what this means for small home improvement companies who are now competing with much, suddenly, much larger companies, and also what it's going to mean to the industry overall. So that is a really interesting topic. And so you see the different types of events dictate the different types of topics. Uh, we have an event that we, um, launched in 2022 called the pinnacle experience.

(16:32): And in that, this is another thing that I'm seeing a lot in events, which is that people are tired of sitting passively in a room and listening to one speaker after another, just drone on and on about something. So we took the idea of an event and what it can be, and kind of blew it up with a lot of breakout sessions, a lot of activities, a different kind of energy and excitement speakers from Google to, um, economists, to builders and remodelers who are really, really forward thinking about technology to people who are cutting edge on the recruitment side and just kind of have a lot of interaction so that attendees can interact with a lot of the experts in a variety of different ways, whether that's taking a hike or whether that's sitting down on a patio with a drink and having a breakout session. So that is something that I'm seeing as well, a need for more energy and excitement in the event, space, Wanna level up, connect with us to share your stories, ideas, challenges, and successes. The builder nuggets community is built on your experiences. It Takes less than a minute to connect with us@buildernuggets.com, Facebook or Instagram, Want access to the resources that can take you and your team to the next level. One call could change everything. I'm very excited and honored that you guys are gonna include me in there to participate a little bit. I think the format is gonna be fantastic. And I realize for some of the listeners here, depending on when the episode drops or when they listen to it, um, the event may have passed, but go ahead anyway, and just plug when it's gonna be where it's gonna be.

(18:17): Awesome. Okay. So it is September 19th through 21st at the Scott resort in Scottsdale Arizona. And it is very, very excited about it. I'm very bullish on the event and just looking forward to seeing a lot of people there, friends, old friends, and new friends.I'm looking forward to it. I think it's gonna be very exciting when we talk about some of these other topics. And I mean, I could dive into any of these and, and go, go deep. And we may just do that on a couple of these, but, you know, I think for years you see a lot of the same things. You know, you see the difference between, you know, markup and margin and profits. And I, I do see, like I said, I think the topics and the yearnings from, from, from business owners now do go deeper for some of this stuff. You know, I think they are realizing that the business is there, there's just so much more to it. And there's so many challenges coming up when it comes to whether it is the labor force, as you said, small builders or modelers may be going up against mega builders. Now there may be some much bigger competitors on the horizon. I was fortunate enough to have someone years ago come to me and, and was, he was looking at the industry. He was a very successful business person, but he was looking at our industry in particular. And he says, you know, there's gonna be a, there's gonna be a moment in your industry. He says, when you start to see things like consolidation, different forms of growth, he says, but it's gonna be transformative. When the independent, small business owner loses the craftsman mindset and, and understands that they're really a business person first, you know, they just happen to be in remodeling or they just happen to be a plumber, or they happen to be a roofer. And that was telling for me, because that doesn't mean that, you know, you're necessarily, you're putting the business first and you're gonna lose quality, or you're gonna lose customer service or any of that.

(20:03): But it's, it's a mindset in that. You have to think that, you know what, I'm, I'm a business person. And I just, I just happen to be in the field of remodeling. And, you know, you, you totally approach your business a different way. Um, you start to think about things like core values and your team and how you can build a business that is gonna be, that is gonna thrive without you as the sole person. You know, and I think, I think a lot of those things are gonna be really important for business owners to think about moving forward, because it does, we all know it becomes a grind as a small business owner, if everything becomes so reliant on you. So I think a lot of the topics that you guys are talking about are, are definitely pushing the envelope and, and moving towards things that really need to be need to be explored further. I, I think what you're saying is right on the money, it is just so cannot be stated enough. And I think if you're a business who just happens to do building or remodeling or whatever it is, what else are you well, you're, you're marketing and your technology. I mean, that's the, this is what some of the strongest builders and remodelers have mastered is they have mastered how to do lead gen and how to incorporate technology successfully into their businesses. And I think that if you think of it, that way, your odds of being able to continue to get those year over year growth that you're looking at goes up substantially just exponentially. I could not agree with you more.

(21:35): Yeah. And we, you know, one of the things that we focus on here on the podcast is collaboration. And, you know, trying to get the message across to people that you, you know, you don't, you don't have to struggle with trying to figure it all out on your own. And that so many of us do because this industry is, it's a tough industry. I mean, can remodeling construction. It's, you're not supposed to let your guard down. You know, you're supposed to come across as this person that knows it all. You're the dependable, confident, just you're the expert at everything. And the minute you have to stop and, and ask for help or, or, or say, wow, I do not know how to do that. That's uncomfortable for a lot of people, you know, but, but what we've found is that that's exactly what you need to do. And you know, whether it's through events like you're, you're doing there, whether it's through NHB, NA business groups, other peer groups, small, uh, entrepreneur and business groups that you can find locally, it's amazing that successful people are willing to share this stuff, but you have to get in the room with 'em, you know, that's the thing. Yes.

(22:35): And, um, I don't know if now it would be a good moment, but we do have something that pro remodeler has started about maybe six months ago that I'm really excited about, which is called remodeling mastery forums. And it gets it exactly what you're talking about. So it's for, it's sort of groups of remodelers, 10 people to a group, 10 companies to a group in your group. You will never have anyone that you can't let your guard down in front of. And these groups meet once a month on zoom. So the whole thing is virtual. So that it's a very, very low monetary investment with a very, very high return on that investment. And we talk about leadership and we talk about marketing. We talk about sales, we talk about production on the replacement contracting side, we talk about operations and it's just, the groups are facilitated by experts in the field, either remodelers or folks like Mark Richardson. I don't know if you know Mark Richardson, he's oh yeah. Certainly, yeah. Speaker and an advisor. And so he facilitates some of our groups and we're in partnership with ni H B on it actually, and stuff like, uh, organizations like that. I think lift the whole industry up because as you get support from your peers, and as you get ideas and you hear how other people are solving the same problems that you have, you yourself become better and you can sort of hone your own skillset. And it's just been wonderful to see the ideas taken off. And it's been great.

(24:14): Well, I mean, program model has been a great resource for, for many, for, for a long time. What sorts of things do you guys see that you're, that you're doing or change that you are making to yeah. Whether it's just to deliver better, uh, you know, better content to be changing as the environment changes. Um, obviously, you know, the whole industry for you guys. I can imagine moving from a print to a digital world, I mean, all, all the different things that you have, social media, what sorts of things are, are you guys working on to, to kind of stay at the forefront of that? So it's interesting, you know, there is still a sizable percentage of remodelers who read print. Yeah. And it's, it's, I mean, I, and I know this because I can see the response that comes in from my column, for instance, like the emails I get from people who read my column and they read it in print. Um, so we absolutely have our print product. And then what, what we're doing that I think is so awesome. And I'm so glad to be part of it is we're reaching people in a whole variety of different ways. So we're really like a fully realized media brand. We have events that are in person. We have different kinds of events that we do pinnacle women in residential construction. We also have an under 40 event for younger remodelers and builders in the industry that we're doing right alongside the international builder show.

(25:40): We have things that we do digitally. We have something called the model remodel, which is doing a actual live remodeling project that we are then recording digitally and reporting on it. We have newsletters, we have a robust social media package and website. So we have, um, a whole variety of ways that we communicate with people and of course, remodeling astray forums. And we really believe that different people want to get information in different ways and different people want to experience community in different ways. And so we try to serve all of those different needs, like this books on a wheel. And it's, it's, it's awesome. I mean, we're, um, we're just in a great place. I'm very excited. I love my job. Oh, that's great. And it's great to hear. So back to the remodeling mastery forums, how can folks get access to that? Or what's the best way if they wanna learn a little bit more about those, where can they find them? I Would just say, go, go on our website, go into the search function and type in remodeling mastery forums. And the link will come, will come right up. It's really a way it's really best for a remodeler. Who's interested in growth and a remodeler. Who's sort of not wanting to do the same old, same old. And, um, Hey, I'm good. I'm just kind of cruising. That's probably not gonna be a great fit.

(27:01): What are you guys seeing on the demographic side when it comes to remodelers? I mean, most of the industry trades in particular, you know, are, are certainly aging out. I've got plenty of gray hair in my head and I've done remodeling for years, but I mean, it's, it seems like remodeling itself is there's a lot of folks that are, are, are aging out, you know, do you see, are you seeing the demographic shift at all? Are there younger folks getting into remodeling? Is it, do we need more? I mean, what, what, what are you guys seeing on that front? They're coming? You know, I think finally the word is starting to get out that this is a field with enormous opportunity. And if you are entrepreneurial, you can, you know, own your own business and do very well at it. If you know what you're doing and you have the right kind of guidance and you can do it as a young person. And I think I'm seeing young people entering the industry, but boy, not in the numbers that we need. I mean, it is pretty scary as I'm sure you yourself have noticed as well, a lot of people are retiring and some of them are selling their companies to employees or passing their companies to their children. And some of them are just closing their doors. Some of 'em are just closing the doors. Yeah. It is. It's incredible. Especially when I look at some of the trades, as I said, some of the plumbers, electricians in particular, I dunno, I read something not too long ago. It was, and I can't remember exactly the numbers, but it was something like for every five or six, uh, electricians or plumbers that leave the industry, only one enters that that's gonna take a lot to replace.

(28:36): Yeah. And it's just mind boggling because it's a great way to make a living. I mean, oh my gosh, you can, you can come in and do really well as a plumber or an electrician. And you don't have to have, you know, a graduate degree and invest years and years of student debt. And it's just very odd to me that more people wouldn't be attracted to it. I'm gonna be at the international builders show in Vegas coming up, uh, in 2023. What, what else his pro model are doing for what's your participation gonna be? Yeah, so we have our under 40 leadership summit, um, which I'm really excited about. We did it this past year, but not in conjunction with the builders show. And so this year having it sort of be side by side with that builders show is gonna be great. Um, we, it was just a great event when we did it in 2022. We have, you know, all the normal stuff that we have show village, which is this really cool. Um, in the parking lot, we build these houses and they're all like small, they're all like, I don't know, I'm gonna say maybe a thousand square feet and they're all like fully decked out and cool. And people can go in and see them. And of course the new American home is gonna be there. And that's something that pro builder does the new American remodel. It's going to be an immersive experience, meaning that the actual home is in Orlando, even though the show is in Las Vegas, but people can still check it out and look at all of the projects, the products and what's in the home. So, but the new American home will be in Las Vegas

(30:12): Looking forward to it. It was a great event last year. Yeah, Wasn't it. Or, or 2022, right? Yeah. 20, 22 back in January. It was awesome. Yeah. It was just great. Cause you know, everybody Was all worried and then didn't, didn't you go there and you were like, this is awesome. Yeah. It was the, the energy was really good. You know, people were so glad to be back. I think the industry, obviously, you know, whether it's building or remodeling was, has been very strong over the last couple years. So people were very upbeat, but you know, a lot, a lot has to be said about, there's just, you just can't duplicate that, that in person and environment sharing, as you said, a lot of the things are the things that go on on the side, you know, you have, you have a few moments and you just have a side conversation with someone. Yeah. It's just very valuable. So looking forward to it. Oh, me too. So I'm going to ask you, like we ask all of our guests, you know, as you're, as things are moving forward here over the next six months to a year, what are you excited about? Whether it's personally professionally it's on your radar?

(31:05): So I will tell you something I'm excited about personally, that has a, certainly a significant professional component, which is that, um, there is, do you know Brian Gottlieb, he started a company I'm going to say, I should know this, but I'm gonna say 20 years ago, let's just say called Tundra land. And it's a window company out of Wisconsin. And he started it with just, you know, not a whole, you know, whatever five grand, you know, in the garage, you know, the story built it to this incredible company where he is so community minded and he is such a fantastic leader and visionary. He really redefined what company culture can be for a home improvement company. And he really looked at how to get team members to embrace true excellence and how to get them aligned with the vision of the company. And he sold the company to a private equity company and did very, very well on the transaction. And he is now, um, I'm working with him on a book about how to create a company culture that is going to make people really excited about coming to work for you. And I'm really enjoying working with him. He is, uh, his ideas are just wonderful and the way he communicates them are so inspiring. That's very working on this book project. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. And

(32:37): When do you anticipate, uh, uh, the possible launch for that book? So it'll definitely be the first half of 2023. I don't wanna say a month yet because we're still figuring out some of the things about it, but Yeah. So it sounds like to get you and Brian back on builder nuggets here. Yes. Maybe early next year to talk all about that book cuz that's right up our alley. It it, well, and to hear Brian talk about it too, I can't even do his ideas justice. I mean, he's just a phenomenal resource for the industry. I'm actually really honored to be able to work with him on the project. That's great. Yeah. Like I said, I know the name and I'm sure if I got into some stuff, it would probably shake my aging memory here, but yet I would love to, you know, have a connection and get the two of you back on and just talk more about that in depth. Cuz like I said, it's a big, that's a big topic with us. It's something that we're passionate about when it comes to building businesses that are rewarding, you know, valuable and not just for the owner, but for everybody involved, you know, you've got to build businesses that reward each and every person that are a part of it, you know, that's the kind of company that's gonna thrive into the future. Well,

(33:45): Yeah. Have you heard about this thing? Quiet, quitting the new, okay. So it's like this new buzzword that everybody's, I guess it started on TikTok, but now like, you know, mainstream media is talking about it. So it's this idea that people are so burnt out at their jobs and they just have had enough. They've had enough of getting up at three in the morning, cuz they're worried about some email that they sent that may have had the long tone. They've had enough of putting their kids to bed and then doing another hour of work afterwards. And so they're not actually quitting their jobs, but they're just backing away from things that they don't feel is part of the core job description of what they're supposed to be doing. Yeah. And I understand from the employee perspective, what that's all about. I mean, I understand that only too well, but I think what you are truly energized to be somewhere, it doesn't feel like this sense of anxiety and dread and I don't wanna be doing this and resentment and burnout instead you feel excited to see if you can figure out a way of being better and doing more. And you're, you're, you're aligned with the vision and you're just happy to be, to be there because the work that we do in our lives, this is our lot, this is what makes up our life. Right. I mean, it certainly Is. Yeah, this is it. You know, this is it all be happy about it. You know, I read an article, something very similar. It was called one foot out the door and it was the same thing. It was like, you know, so many people, whether they're workers, leaders, managers, you know, they're, that's how they're kind of going to work every day. Now, you know, they're, they're there, they're showing up, but there's one foot out the door. Yeah. They just don't and I, yeah, we, we talk about, uh, wellness a good bit. I mean I had the, the, the fortunate opportunity with, um, at the Aire homes group that I work with, we did a big wellness event in June of this year to where we had eight or nine different building companies. We took all the employees, we invited some trades, we invited some, we had spouses, kids, architects, designers, and we just, we went to a, it's called the Charlotte whitewater center.

(35:57): And it was just a day off, as Scott Bebe came on. Yeah. He spoke at lunch around the topic, you know, and he says, when's the last time you lost track of time. Yeah. And that's what we did for a day. Just for a day, we just disconnected, you know, phones off, go ziplining, whitewater raft thing, and just lose track of time. And it's across the board. It's not just our industry, but I think specifically in our industry, there's a lot of the burnout that we do, the, the whole wellness thing. And just looking at how you can, you've gotta start creating environments that people wanna participate in Or they will vote with their feet like this one foot out the door thing. I mean, we hear about their great resignation. It's a thing. It's a thing. It certainly is a thing. Yeah. Well that's good stuff, Erica. Thanks for, for taking time. Uh, I enjoy it. I, everything that you do is just great for the industry. So congrats on what you have been doing and best of luck for everything you're doing going forward. Oh, thank you so much. It was so interesting talking to you. I really enjoyed this.

Hey, thanks for listening, Duane and I love hearing from you. Your stories are inspiring and your challenges can be overcome. Got a cool tip idea for a show problem that you haven't been able to solve, or maybe just struggling to figure out what you need next and where to get it. We can help hit us up@buildernuggets.com and start building freedom.

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