And imagine the right person then stepping in a successor and having that foundation in place.
Welcome to builder nuggets hosted by Dwayne Johns and Dave young. Hey, our mission is simple, build freedom. We are a couple of entrepreneurs turned business coaches who have dedicated ourselves to helping our builder remodeler clients create the most rewarding businesses in the industry. My co-host Dwayne has been a successful builder and remodeler for over 30 years. He's seen the highs and the lows. From the beginning though, Dwayne has been on a quest to find a better way to run a contracting business. In 2016, he found that better way. That's how I met Dave, a lifelong entrepreneur and visionary who measures his success by the success of those around him. He reached out one day with a formula on how to transform my business and the rest is history. Since then, we've teamed up to help hundreds of contractors like you build better businesses and better lives. Now we've decided to open up our network and share our secrets so we can start moving the needle with you. It's collaboration over competition. Each week, we bring together industry peers and experts who share their stories so that we can all build freedom together.
(01:10): If you're a diehard builder nuggets listener, then you should be familiar with our exit strategy episode. If you're a new listener, you should go back and listen to episode 11, where we discuss some of the strategies and options for successfully exiting your business.
(01:22): Our mission is to help builders and remodelers build freedom through their businesses. And one of the best ways to do that is to create a valuable asset that you could sell or transfer to someone else in the future. Freedom is having options. Of course, this sounds like a great plan, but there is a lot of work that goes into setting this up. That's what we're going to dive into today. As we discuss how to prepare for an exit, our guest
(01:45): It's today draws on more than three decades of experience in the residential remodeling field to work with business owners and developing proven business systems. He's been involved with custom home building and remodeling for over 30 years. Many of you know him by his book managing the emotional homeowner, which has helped countless builders and remodelers improve the level of service. They provide their
(02:03): From his home base in Colorado. He consults with both contractors and industry manufacturers to maximize customer service relationships between all the industry partners. He travels extensively. Speaking to thousands of business owners across the country is a regular on the seminar series of national trade shows. And as a columnist for numerous industry trade magazines, it's our pleasure to welcome David Lee Berger to today's show. Welcome David. Thank you. Thank you both. That was a long intro. That's a, that's a lot of accreditation and, and you're a busy dude. Thanks so much for making time for us and our listeners. Well, when you get a little older, that list of accreditation to start to grow, yeah, you're doing something right, man,
(02:46): The homeowner emotional rollercoaster, it's become an iconic chart for many builders and remodelers in our industry. And I have to think you must have been up to your ears in, you know, what, when this idea popped into your head. So
(02:58): As a contractor working in Washington DC area, God, this true story got a call from a friend of mine. He said, my psychiatrist wants to talk to you. So I said, that's interesting. And I said, well, you know, he's a psychiatrist very successful here in the area. So I met him and when we met, he brought the marriage counselor partner from his psychiatric practice, not a personal partner, but a business partner. So they introduced me and I'm going well, this is kind of different. So we sit down, we start talking. And what I discovered in about the first three minutes, both had done extensive remodeling projects and both of them over a year later were still upset. And so for 15, 20 minutes, they really just unloaded about their frustration, their disappointments expectations, that weren't met promises that weren't kept. And this went on for about 20 minutes.
(03:52): And I finally said, you know, I appreciate your you're sharing this with me. What were you hoping I could do? And they said, you know, we can complain to other homeowners, but when your friend told me you were a contractor, I wanted you to hear this firsthand. So I said, you know, that's interesting, you know, cause I thought about putting together a manual for a homeowner to guide them any stopped me. And it's one of those moments where you don't forget. And I still remember his shaking, his finger at me and saying, you need to understand something. You, you know, a homeowner will do a project maybe once or twice in their life. You do this 10, 12, 15 times a year. Here's the key point. You understand construction, you know how to build, but if you understood how to manage people's emotions, you would change your industry. That was it. As soon as I heard it, I said, you are dead on. So he actually provided a lot of content for the book, which is understanding the emotional undercurrent that goes into a residential project does not exist in commercial construction, industrial, the, the emotional investment. And if you understand that and guide people, you're actually not just selling a project. You're actually sell experience.
(05:11): Yeah. That's what it's all about. There's no doubt about it as a business partner. And I have talked about that for many years. And for anybody out there, that's listening that is not familiar with the homeowners emotional roller coaster. It is just a, a Mustang. It's a classic to see, reach out to us. We can, we can get your copy. We can connect you with David, something you've got to have in your arsenal. You need to understand it. David, when you and I spoke a few weeks ago, we discussed the surging number of builders and remodelers that are aging out of this industry. Many are considering an exit from their business. They're thinking it might be someone out there that will stroke them, that big check and they'll ride off into the sunset. But I think as we know, the sad fact is this just doesn't happen very often. I mean, what's your, what's your view on this?
(05:53): It doesn't happen very often. And I've done a number I used to do, you know, pre COVID used to do 18 or 20 live events in trade shows or just associations around the country. And if it ever came up, I would ask the group, would you buy your business? And it's a pivotal question because in most PE and again, these are very, you know, I love working in the industry because people are so honest and I would look at somebody say, would you buy your business? 90% of the time? The answer was no, because they know how hard it is. And so I've asked people in these group programs, you know, you won't work forever. Do you have some kind of exit plan? And no one does, you know, they're thinking I'm going to work until I'm done, you know, all wind things down and then I'll figure out what I'm going to do.
(06:45): And I'd mentioned to you before, can you imagine going into a remodeling project without a set of plans and all the things that don't go, right? And so literally I'm going to tell clients when I'm working with them, your job honestly, is to create a business. That's not dependent on you. And let's just look at this simply, what can you do to remove yourself from day-to-day operations, day-to-day functions. And I've got this wonderful little owner centricity quiz where they go through every element in their business and they're scored. And the reality is, you know, most are the businesses are 60, 70, 80% dependent on these owners still doing key functions. Well, he is the business. She is the business. All right. So really the plan then is over time. Can we create a documented plan to begin moving out of some of those day-to-day functions, delegating those to key employees?
(07:43): What does it look like? How do we prioritize that? Now the reality is this is going to take time. I'll tell people three to five years, if you call on Sam retiring and next year, in most cases, unless you have someone who's been trained is working hand in hand with the owner. That's going to be tough, but you know, somebody will say three to five years, think about it. And I'll even take owners in their forties who are not even thinking about exiting. And, and just saying your real job is to create a business that doesn't depend on you to the degree that it doesn't, it now becomes transferable. It now has asset value, but I'm going to say 97% of construction companies. Can't say that.
(08:28): And what a great thing to learn right now, if you're a younger builder. And even if you're just getting into the business to start with perfect time to start is right when you're beginning, you know, if you have a business that is built to sell from, from day one and where you're creating opportunity for other people, instead of a burden on yourself, this is, you know, not only is it more scalable, it's, it's going to be more appealing others. And the irony is that business is poised to acquire other businesses as well. It's perfectly set up to absorb. If you're not ready to leave
(09:04): Being realistic, we all know you just start a business. You probably don't have the time, the money, the resources in place to have everything set up as a salable company, but it should be part of your ongoing strategies to be one of the first parts of the business plan, you know, okay, I'm starting a business, but what does the end look like? That should be something everyone is working on from the very beginning. So
(09:26): Are you familiar with Michael Gerber wrote a book called the E-Myth. So he did an interview and I've always remembered one specific part. And I asked Michael Gerber, what do you see in the most successful businesses and the most successful? And I'm going to kind of summarize what he said, but in essence, he said, these companies were built with the end in mind. And they knew from the time they started what that exit path looked like, because they knew that business was a means to an end. It was not an end in itself. That's a really key point, which is it gets us the things we want in life creating a lifestyle we want. But too often, I see this specifically in the construction industry that the owner is working for the business, and it's a very demanding business versus the business, working for the owner and creating a lifestyle that works for them and their family.
(10:26): And especially now it's so demanding because of the robust market, but you know, how do we temper that domain and really create a business that then supports your life and your family because I'm older. And now my son is, has his own business, how important it was to me to be around during those formative years. And if I'm working with somebody, that's one of the first questions I ask is how old are your children? Cause guess what? They grow up. And it happens awfully quick. So let's really focus on does the business support your life? And that's where that, that owner centricity quiz comes in, which is let's start to fine tune some things. And, and it just examination and feedback because most contractors I've worked with, they just haven't gone down this path, honestly, it's like, where do we start
(11:20): At one of the most transformational books for me? I mean, I think about it a lot in that the whole concept of switching from the technician mindset. It's so huge. And it's what, it's what stuck with me for, for a long time. Yeah. That's a good, good analogy, which is, and most our technicians loosely speaking. And how do you remove yourself from those day-to-day routines? And it really takes a different thought. It's a really a different behavior going to the job site. I'm familiar with that. I know what that, what that requires. I know how to lay out a plan begin to implement that plan. When I'm saying, what does life look like 12 months from now, 1824 months from now, we get into that kind of vague area, but what great questions to ask? And so when I work with people, I even less than I just say six months from now, when the business is running the way you want. And if we had a bit of a magic wand, what are the most immediate things you would like to address? And it's an interesting conversation starter about the people, the type of projects, technology, lack of technology it's working on is simply speaking in Michael Gerber terms. It's working on the business, not working in it. I mean, that's it in a nutshell. And when I go back to that simple question, you know, would you buy your business? If somebody is really being honest and their technician, they're going to tell you now because of how hard they're working and then the mind shift changes, which is if you weren't working in the business, what would it look like? How do you get there? You know, it's a very formative conversation, but in many cases, an unfamiliar one. So when you're
(13:00): Coaching them and you go through your, your intake questionnaire with them, how do they get there? What are the, what are the key steps for the path? What does that path look like? I have an exit readiness assessment, which is an interesting starting point, which is beginning to ask questions about the present and future. And so I've got some forms, as you just said, the intake kind of process. From that I can go to the owner centricity, which is where all the areas are you still working in the business? And then I like to create a company, organizational chart, Dave, and what are you presently doing now? Cause we look, we can look back at the owner centricity and see the different elements, the areas where you're involved. And for many people, what I do is I take a company and an any construction company there's 14 or 15, 15 primary functions in every construction company. So what I do is I differentiate all those functions in an organizational chart. And I want an owner to see the 6, 7, 8 functions that they're presently enrolled in, in a company because that's then the basis of me saying six months from now, do you like all of those six areas?
(14:20): You already know the answer? Well, no, not really. If you didn't have to do, and then we identify those areas. And again, as a small business owner, you take these things on because you have to, but as you grow, how do we then prioritize getting you out of those things you shouldn't be doing? All right. And, and I come back to, and I'm just going to use a broad example here. Let's say a company is doing a million a year in revenue, and I'm going to divide that by a standard 2000 hour work year. So 40 hours a week, times, 50 weeks, if I divide that million dollars by 2000, that owner is generating revenue at $500 an hour. If we look at a standard 40 hour work here. Now my context is this. As you look at the functions in your business, if there's any function you could pay somebody 20, 25, even $30 an hour to do.
(15:15): Let's begin to look at delegating night activity because your role strategically is not to work in the business. It's to oversee, but think three months in advance, six months, where are we going? Do we have a new product or service? What clients do I want to target? If we're growing, do we have the personnel? And if I do the six month organizational chart, I can begin to say, if we look at an increase in revenue, then less also begin to see, do you need additional help? Where do you need help? So suddenly this to me becomes the roadmap, which is, this is where we're going. Now, three months ahead of time. I know you're going to need another carpenter. You're going to need a project manager just based on what you're doing now. And that, that perspective growth. So can we break it down to just bite-sized pieces?
(16:08): And can I have you look at that chart and say, boy, I'm in, in, in eight functions right now. What if we removed four of those functions and it's not going to happen overnight, but what is in the next two next six months, we could get you out of two of these functions. Imagine, and I'll ask people if you're just saving 10 hours a week and remember if they're already generating a million dollars in revenue and I gave you another five hours a week just to sell what is another 20 hours a week focusing on sales present. And oftentimes it's anywhere from 250 to $500,000 in additional revenue. So those are the conversations I like to have.
(16:53): Is this where the yeah, buts start in because we find a significant amount of discomfort. When you start to talk about delegation, the reason they're wearing all those hats is because they look best in them. You know, it's really what it boils down to what we hear a lot. So I'm interested to see if you are hearing the exact same things. When we first start speaking with someone is I can't find the right people. Nobody knows how to do it the way I know how to do it, which is great when you hear this, because we all know those people are out there. It's tough to find them right now, but now, you know what challenge you need to go down with them. We find that the reality is is they don't have the systems in place. They don't have the structure in place. They don't have the training. They cannot see how they could possibly delegate to somebody because they don't have the ability to elevate them first. And you need to be able to elevate people first so that you can then delegate to them. What, with none of that in place, this becomes impossible. Want to level up, connect with us to share your stories, ideas, challenges, and successes.
(18:05): The builder nuggets community is built on your experiences. It takes less than a minute to connect with us@buildernuggets.com, Facebook or Instagram, Access to the resources that can take you and your team to the next level. One call could change everything. So how do you walk them back through that and get them to a spot where they can develop confidence in their people and find the right people?
(18:29): It's a great question. All right. You're just, you're giving me a little softball pitches here. So let me take a nice swing at this one, Your dad on. So they're looking and saying, you know, I'm doing this now, do you like it now? Would you like to delegate? I'd love to delegate it. So literally on the phone, I can do a simple interview. And I'm going to say in that member, we've identified the different functions in the company. So in this particular position, tell me what you do. And so in 15, 20, 25 minutes and almost a chronological fashion, they can begin to describe the things they do in that position. And so I'm writing this down and then I said, I'm going to send this back to you. And I want you to look at that position. And I want you to really qualify for me, all the things that you're doing now, this is the beginning of a position description by task. So I can begin to create this for each position on that organizational chart.
(19:33): We can do this with an owner. Who's doing it. Now I can do it with an employee. Who's doing some of these things. Now let's put it in writing. And I've actually got a manual with gosh, 21 construction specific job descriptions now. And so I will even tell them, don't start, don't start from scratch. Let me send you an example. And so they see an example. And so it's almost like sharing a blueprint and it's like, look at the blueprint and you'll say, well, we, I like the plan, but I do this differently. Great. Just modify those things you do differently. Suddenly we have a position description by task. And I'm going to say, now that you understand what you're looking for, can we begin to, you know, start this employee search because now I've, I've described what I want that person to do. Now let's take the next step.
(20:24): And again, there's a variety of ways to find these folks. You have your own network, which is I'm talking about employees, subcontractors suppliers. There's a number of online job boards. And there's even a, a group that I probably referred a dozen contractors to that is really helping people find qualified people. They do some online assessments. They do background checks. I really like doing this because if they find the right person, then I'm during the interview process and I'm building on what you, you gave me Dave, once they find the right person, we sit down and I can say, when you're working here, here are my expectations. And so now for the first time I've got a meeting of the minds and an agreement, which is okay, I see what you're looking for. And then below that, I'll do a one to five evaluation rating. And I'll say, because you don't understand all the functions here, tell me which w which areas you're comfortable with, just based on experience and where some specific training is needed. So let's say there's 10 specific tasks they're comfortable just because of their skillset with five elements. But I've got five where I need to do some company training. I can then have them rate their understanding. It could be a one or a two, but now I can look at those remaining five functions and I can prioritize my training.
(21:50): So when you're, when you're mapping out that training, who's doing it. Are you doing it as the business coach or is the business owner doing the training? It's usually the business owner, because if they're delegating something that they've done, they know it better than anyone else. I just helped them put it in writing. I have, I have sat in on some interviews only because they said you want to sit in and, and have the conversation and that's fine, but it really is an owner driven function. They know what they're delegating.
(22:23): This is a major shift and a major time commitment. And one of the key roles of a business leader is training the people who are coming in or having somebody on your team who can perform this. So how do you help a busy business owner say that 10 times fast during a market like this who barely has time to do what they're doing? How do you convince them of the merit of making the investment in the other?
(22:50): All I can say is if you weren't doing the following, I kind of go back to my allocation of time. And if I could give you back five hours a week per function, you're doing now, and I can convert that into strategically how your company will grow. I need to turn it into a profits and cents comparison, because if I can bring this person in and the training, it can oftentimes be simple shadowing that the person either follows the owner or follows a key person, because remember these functions are already being done within the business. So let's show them what we're doing. And if we've got the right person, guess what? They'll not only pick it up more quickly, but they'll probably make it better because of bringing those skillsets. So it is a challenge right now. I mean, a big challenge, which is, can you take five hours a week and work on your business?
(23:46): And I've literally given assignments where I'm saying, you give me half a day and you've got to tell your key people. I will not be available. And if there's something going on, make the decision, unless it's an emergency. And part of this is then beginning to empower. If they have good employees, empower those employees to make those decisions. I think some employees are a little lazy and I'm really generalizing when I say this, but we don't trust them to do more. And so if I put a position description in writing and really even say for an existing employee, these are my expectations, less review this together, because this will be the basis for your employee evaluation in the future. If I can put this in writing, as far as I'm concerned, good employees want responsibility, good people do. And once you empower those people to do those things, you've made your company stronger.
(24:40): Well, the word accountability keeps coming to mind right now. And it's when the owner, the business owner implements that self-accountability with you as the, their spinach factor, we call it here often left to our own devices. We won't eat our spinach, but we know it's good for us in most cases, but it sounds like it starts with the accountability, the owner, before you can expect accountability from anyone else. And accountability is something that is very hard for us to, about to develop as an entrepreneur to maintain on our own. So having somebody like you coming in and laying that out three afternoons a week, four hours a week until we get there, that layer of accountability is priceless when it comes to a business coach. And if you're looking for one, find one that will pin you to the map and make you make you do these things and set it up. So you're finding people that are attracted to that. And it's already in place before
(25:37): It's dead on. I literally spent an hour on the phone with one of my coaching clients yesterday, and he was looking at a $4,000 program to go spend four days in one of these active workshops where 2000 people were attending. And he was saying, you know, does this make sense? And I said, I don't know enough about it, but my only concern is you attend that for four days, you spent your $4,000. You come back, you're highly charged, but when you're back in your office, life takes over. So where is the accountability factor who is following up? What decisions did you make? How did you prioritize those decisions? And so I really appreciate what you're saying. And that's all a good business coach does, which is let's identify some activities and let's just do a 90 day increments. All right, what can we do in the next 90 days? All right, what can we do the next 90 days? Is it happening? What tools do you need? Can I give you samples? Can I give you templates? Can I introduce you to somebody that's done this before? Whatever we can do to kind of grease the skids?
(26:40): Yeah. Now we're into structure. Now we're into actionable items. Now we're into measurable things. Instead of that hope that comes from you feel good about the commitment you made to go and learn something. You feel great with all these ideas that are swirling around in your head, and then three weeks or two months later, the one little piece of it you tried is not producing an effective result. You feel have you, did I waste my money on this? And we see it in software sometimes too, where it's like, this is going to be the solution, but it's what you put in to those buckets. It still takes the work. It still takes the, the commitment in order for it to happen. And yeah, again, go out and get a business coach who can help to hold you accountable. This is, this is one of the key pieces, because those are great mindset, things that you want to do, that you want to drive change. You want to learn, you want to empower your team, but you just don't have the discipline and the, or the structure something is missing and a coach will help you figure out what it is. Yeah.
(27:38): I know. It's kind of like personal training. If you go to the gym three days a week and meet a trainer, guess what you'll get in shape. The hard part, the hard part is getting to the gym and doing it three days a week, I'm going to say six or eight of the contractors I'm working with now. They don't want to quote unquote retire that their idea of their next chapter is not working 40 or 45 hours a week. It's working 15. And they're just saying, if I can come in and really just focus on things, I do best. If I can work more in an advisor role working, you know, two days a week, either in the office or remotely, because once the appropriate dashboard is in place, you know, you really can do it even a distance. And that's a neat idea too.
(28:24): Cause you know, here I am in my mid sixties, I'm going to keep going because I can do this remotely. I can, you know, pick the clients I want to work with. This is a nice lifestyle business and contractors can do the same because you're so focused on working with people. It's a relationship based business. Let's just build on that. But to the owner, what do they do best? It could be working with architects. It could be the initial homeowner interaction. It's their ability to connect with people, the relationships they have with trade contractors and suppliers. I mean, this is stuff that those relationships, it's why people have done this for 15, 20, 25 years because those relationships are so vital. And that kind of goes back to where we started is men. Don't walk away from these things. There's such value. There's, there's such Goodwill. And if you can remove yourself from those day-to-day functions, that asset becomes transferrable and imagine the right person then stepping in a successor and having that foundation in place
(29:29): And having a leader of the team who is only doing things that they like and they're good at. And it's one of the traps. I think that business owners fall into in this industry is that delegation is a dirty word because there's so many of the roles are looked at or oftentimes it's perceived that, Hey, if you're not doing the dirty work, you're trying to pass it off on somebody else. You know, you look at the things that you need to improve on. And we've been taught all of our lives. You know, you got, you gotta go and work on that. You're not taught very often or very few people are teaching you that you shouldn't have to go find somebody else to do that. That's an opportunity for somebody else and think of how you feel when you're working on something that you're good at.
(30:12): Like if you watch a kid learning a sport and they're horrible at it, they give up. But if you watch a kid that is improving and they're seeing incremental improvement, they dig in more, then they start to love it. And then they thrive and they become addicted to it. That's what your business can be if you do it right. And those other roles can be roles that other people thrive in. And now you've created an environment where nobody's looking around and saying, well, how come I, you know, I don't want to have to do that. It's everybody's doing what they love. That's the secret for getting to one of these businesses. That's the elevate delegate type stuff, but it's counter to what we've been raised on for so long.
(30:54): And that's the challenge of putting those puzzle pieces together, you know beginning to say, what am I best at? What can I delegate? And that, can I find people again, due to those unique skill sets and are they doing what they do best? And imagine the synergy that comes out of that, there's a visionary element in all this, which is, you know, can I begin to imagine? And I kind of go back to, if the business was running the way I would, like, what would I be doing? Who would I be working with? Who are the clients that I'd be working with in what areas? One of the projects I like doing best. And you know, it all starts there, which is, and again, I call that future org chart, the roadmap, which is, can we start creating the roadmap because you can, until we identify those things, how do we get there?
(31:42): I can't help, but have Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy ringing in my ears here and who not, how, and we're talking about finding the right people and those things, those choices that you just talked about, they call them the four freedoms. It's the freedom of purpose, the freedom of time, the freedom of relationship, and then together form the financial freedom. That is the result of being able to work on the projects that you want to on the missions that you want to work on with the people that you want to on your time basis terms. And the end result is financial freedom and opportunity for everybody else who is in that company as well, not just to you
(32:21): And then the dynamic energy, you know, those interactions, you know, business owners, I'm going to say those entrepreneurs, I'm going to say maybe only 5% of the population I'm making up a number can live with risk. And I'm talking about building a business, living with economic uncertainty, knowing they have to make sales living with overhead, the cost of doing business. I'm going to say it's only five, maybe seven or 8% of the population that can do that. All right. And these business owners we're talking about, those are those entrepreneurs. Now the other 90, some percent, they may not want to live with risk, but they would love to work with a dynamic company that's moving forward, that they can see it's growing. They can see their place in that dynamic company. And that's the basis of that synergy, which is kind of, I create that platform where people can truly come in and grow.
(33:18): And then the challenge becomes, how do you market that? We're that? How do we show who we are so that we can attract those people in? And that's a whole a whole different show. But one thing that's kind of neat about this, this chat with you, David, is that I'm sure people are coming into this thinking that they're going to get technical advice about business valuations and how you get a business valuation done. And you know what it looks like, what are some of the different formats for structuring and exit deal? And we're nowhere near any of that stuff. This is all about how you build a business. Cause that's stuff that'll just come. You know, if you, if you put it all together, there's plenty of experts out there. And, and most of us are nowhere near needing those things at this stage.
(34:04): That's, you know, that's for when you've built a valuable asset. So focus on that. Don't focus on what multipliers look like, or how you structure something, focus on how you get the right people doing the right things so that you can focus on leading the company, creating the opportunities. That's your role as an entrepreneur. If you focus on creating opportunity and you provide the environment for those people who believed you to thrive, you're done. You're, you know, just keep being in front of it. And as an entrepreneur, that's probably what you naturally want to do anyway, is go and seek and be curious, Entrepreneur, what does the future hold for you? Tell us something you're excited about these,
(34:51): You know, I am designing, as I said, the next chapter, and I just got back on a personal level. I just got back from a 10 day motorcycle ride in Alaska. So 1100 miles into the interior, dual sport motorcycles, both on-road and off-road. And guess what, there's a lot of dirt roads in Alaska. You throw in a little bit of rain and some fog, and suddenly those dirt roads that are rutted with potholes become very slick services, very challenging services. So I got back from that. So intrigued, I just bought a motorcycle last weekend, another dual-sport motorcycle planning the next trip. And so it's almost like that's the recharge for me beginning to see what was possible and to make it even better. I invited my 25 year old son on the Alaska trip with me. So we, we both got to do this 10 day trip. That was lifetime goal for me. And he was as engaged as I was. So we're thinking about the next one. Where's the next one?
(35:54): Spain. So next fall, there's a Spain trip, seven days with a lot of, you know, interesting writing in Southern Spain and to make it even better that we're going to make it a family trip. So my wife, my brother-in-law my sister, because on the week that my son, my brother-in-law and I are doing the motorcycling, my wife and sister will be traveling on their own because they can they're in Spain. And then the second week we'll get back together again. So all this is a win-win, which is how do we incorporate this trip? How do we incorporate family? So literally came back from that trip saying every year, one international trip. No-Holds-Barred,
(36:37): It's a pretty good sign. When the business coach and your podcast guests is living the freedom that he coaches and inspires others to do. So. Thanks for sharing that with us, man. This has been a great, a great episode, and we'll look forward to hearing about that trip to Spain in a future, in a future I'll send, I'll send pictures. All right. And then you can, you can enjoy it vicariously.
(37:03): It was a pleasure, David, you're an icon in the industry and always gracious enough to share your expertise. If anyone out there wants to connect with David or learn more, just send us a note on our contacts, page builder, nuggets.com. Thanks again for spending some time with us today. Thank you. I really enjoyed it.
Hey, thanks for listening. Dwayne and I love hearing from you. Your stories are inspiring and your challenges can be overcome. Got a cool tip? Idea for a show? Problem that you haven't been able to solve or maybe just struggling to figure out what you need next and where to get it. We can help. Hit us up at BuilderNuggets.com and start building freedom.
