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If two people are accountable no one is accountable. Roles and responsibilities have to be clearly defined. Our guest on this episode has personally helped many in the Builder Nuggets community. In Episode 13 he gave an overview of EOS (The Entrepreneurial Operating System) and it’s simple, proven format that will get everyone on your team behind your mission. In this episode we take a deeper dive into the Accountability Chart.

Show highlights include:

  • If two people are accountable no one is accountable. Roles and responsibilities have to be clearly defined. (2:22) 
  • The counterintuitive way simplifying and reducing the responsibilities of your team members boosts their productivity (5:15) 
  • The 3 major functions every construction company needs to address to grow their business (8:42) 
  • The “Accountability Chart Exercise” that sets you up for your exit strategy and prevents an illness from wrecking your growth (12:57) 
  • Are you paying a $100 an hour person to do $20 an hour work? Here’s how to know if you are and fix it (19:02) 
  • How an accountability chart helps you stop bottlenecking your team and empowers them instead (20:28) 
  • 3 simple “GWC” questions to ask your teammates to instantly know if they’re the right person for the role (23:48) 
  • How “wasting” a couple of days on business planning prevents your business from running you (especially if you feel like you have no time to plan) (31:00) 

If you’d like to learn more about EOS, you can send David an email at tractionpartners@gmail.com or visit his website here: http://yourtractionpartners.com

To get the most out of this podcast, head over to https://buildernuggets.com and join our active community of like-minded builders and remodelers.

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Do they get it? Do they want it? And do they have the capacity

Welcome to builder nuggets hosted by Dwayne Johns and Dave young. Hey, our mission is simple, build freedom. We are a couple of entrepreneurs turned business coaches who have dedicated ourselves to helping our builder remodeler clients create the most rewarding businesses in the industry. My co-host Dwayne has been a successful builder and remodeler for over 30 years. He's seen the highs and the lows. From the beginning though, Dwayne has been on a quest to find a better way to run a contracting business. In 2016, he found that better way. That's how I met Dave, a lifelong entrepreneur and visionary who measures his success by the success of those around him. He reached out one day with a formula on how to transform my business and the rest is history. Since then, we've teamed up to help hundreds of contractors like you build better businesses and better lives. Now we've decided to open up our network and share our secrets so we can start moving the needle with you. It's collaboration over competition. Each week, we bring together industry peers and experts who share their stories so that we can all build freedom together.

(01:05): Our guest today has personally helped many in the builder nuggets community. In episode 13, vision, traction healthy. He explained EOS the entrepreneurial operating system, and it's simple proven format that will get everyone on your team behind you.

(01:22): Today's expert is back. He is the founder and CEO of traction partners, an EOS implementation company, and a lifetime entrepreneur. He gained experience in his family business. And let's just say, became aware of the challenges associated with that. He is passionate about your success. He's worked with Dwayne and I and our businesses, and he understands builders.

(01:44): Anyone who works with me knows that I'm a pretty big ELs fan and traction fan. So it's exciting to have you back on the show today. It's my pleasure to welcome David. Hickton welcome back, David

(01:54): Gentlemen. Great to be here. Great to have the listening audience out there really excited about today. Last time, just EOS overview. A lot of people know about EOS. They've read traction, they've read the books, they know it. Maybe they're implementing it. But today we get to dive a little deeper into one of the foundational EOS tools, excited where we're going today.

(02:13): Yeah. We're going to take a look at the accountability tool. And one thing that we've learned in our own coaching and implementing this or helping others implement it is if two people are accountable, then no one is accountable. And that's an opening statement. But can you elaborate on that for us? I think it's going to be a theme for this episode. And it's important that we don't get caught in this trap.

(02:39): There are many issues that are discovered when we start to talk about accountability chart because accountability chart. One thing about accountability chart is there is an org structure and a lot of this is in people's minds. Hey, I know who I report to in the organization, but if you think about the word accountability chart, emphasis on accountability, this is not only who I report to, but what I am accountable for. And not only what I'm accountable for, but what my manager or my director is accountable for also. So what am I leaning into them? What are they leaning into me for? And to your point about when two people are accountable, no one is, or when multiple people are accountable, no one is, I need to be crystal clear on what my accountabilities are so that I don't step on the toes of somebody else. Who's really great at what they do. We're just going to delineate what one person's going to do when another person's going to do this influences our processes where one process ends and where another person picks it up, where the Baton is passed. Another person picks it up and runs with it. The people are accountable. Nobody's accountable that this is saying, Hey, if two people are accountable for the sales figure, then when the sales are off, I'm pointing at the other guy or gal that is responsible for that with me. I see.

(03:53): So clearly in my own house where it's like, you're asking with your kids, if my wife and I asked two of the kids to do something, each one has the opportunity to blame the other one for it not being done. Nobody, nobody owns it. This is really coming down to owning your bucket. Then once you own it, like you started off with having the freedom to go and put your own stamp on it and really, really take it and stay on, you know, have other people stay out of your lane.

(04:22): Listeners out there, if you're unfamiliar with what EOS is, we're not diving deep into it. You can go back and listen to our episode 13. It's pretty good overview of what EOS is. I think you could get to go back and listen to that and you'll get a pretty good understanding for it today. It's, it's really kind of focused on this. The accountability chart, maybe explain what an accountability chart is, you know, because there's, some folks are probably thinking well, is that the same as an org chart and all this and, and why it's so important to have one,

(04:47): The organizational idea is really important. You need to have direct lines or solid lines of communication. Somebody is managing somebody, making sure that things get done. And as I mentioned, the accountability word is really important because it's not only who I'm accountable to, but what I'm accountable for. And while there is a functional way that all businesses work, when you sit down and actually have to sketch this out on paper and ELs is really simplifying a lot of complex parts of our business. And the accountability chart is definitely one of these areas where when we force people to take up two page job description and sum it up and just five bullet points, five roles, what are the five major things I need from each person? Then clarity starts to emerge in the room, even in small organizations where you say you have two or three people when I'm just narrowing it down as to what I'm great at what I love to do, what value I bring to the organization and say, are those the five things for the seat that I'm sitting in? I'm sorry for the EOS terms, but the, the square on the accountability chart, the box that sitting in, I migrated those things. Do I want to do those things? Do I have the capacity to do those things? Yes or no. Then it starts to become clear what box Dave is sitting in. You could I'm gesturing toward myself or to you day and what box Dwayne is much better at setting in. I think it was

(06:14): The, job's probably one of the biggest advocates for simple as hard. What you just said there. I I've seen people go through it. It's amazing how difficult it is for them to just maybe put five bullet points down. They want to go, oh no, but I do that. Yeah, but it's also, but, and then I'm doing this as well. And it's amazing. The struggle that people have say, look just from a high level, what are the four or five most important things you do as your role?

(06:37): When we start to work with a new client that wants to operate on ELs, we get through some basic foundational teaching and then we teach five foundational EOS tools. The first one is accountability chart. We just strike while the iron's hot and we go straight there. And what we do is with the leadership team, we take everybody out of their positions, in the company, all the titles vanish. And we just become a board of directors where we're thinking about the greater good of the company. If we can redesign the way that the structure works in our organization, what's going to bring us the greatest results. And when we take everybody out of their seats, we take everybody, all the egos get checked at the door and we're just looking out for the greater good of the company. We start with a blank slate and say, what's the best structure then?

(07:23): What are the roles that the person that sits in that place in the structure needs to be great at only then we start to put people back into their positions, makes for an exciting meeting because you have to start out with six or seven people around the table and you narrow down the crowd really quick, finding out what people are great at, what they love to do, where you have duplication, where there's two people sitting in a certain position or not. So it's an exciting part of the process. So I just, for the listeners and for you all that have been through this, you know that it's not just the end result, it's the journey that you get. It's the discussions, debates, the disconnect, that another word, yes,

(08:06): Discovery. And that's what we've found. It's been empowering for these companies to sit down and they do. They, everybody fights the urge to dump the job description out on the table and just start sorting through it. But what really helps is, is breaking down those key buckets. And maybe you can walk us through those. Every company is going to have some of the pretty much the same things, right? You're going to have a visionary. You're going to have an integrator for a construction company. Why don't you walk us through what those buckets should look like and why

(08:43): Every organization has really three major functions in it that need to be addressed the first one? Well, they're not necessarily in this hierarchy, but one of them is sales and marketing. If you're not creating awareness, if you're not developing a need and then capitalizing on a need by making sales, collecting checks, then you're not going to be in business long. So sales and marketing is one area. The next area is ops. And this is where the construction industry has its own areas. So you have a project manager and a general manager, and you have cascading through all the way to finish carpenters or whatever the cleanup crew is at the end of the chain. And then the third priority is to have the finance taken care of sometimes admin compliance safety gets rolled into this, but the inflow outflow of cash monitoring that making investments, that type of thing.

(09:35): So those are the three areas and above that, and the accountability chart is you use this term already, but some listeners are like, what is a integrator? What is a visionary? But the integrator integrates those three different tension. So three different departments which can become silos. And when they do a great job of integrating them, all the pieces and parts, all the different disciplines work well together to accomplish a greater goal. So that's, the integrator could be called the manager, CEO president. They're the, the entrepreneur, they're the ones on the top of that in many EOS organizations, very entrepreneurial minded, big picture. People are also in the organization sometime they're sitting in that integrator seat. And really when Gino Wickman wrote traction, he really saw that there was a different position. It's a position called visionary. That dreams big, solves big problems, but they move from thing to thing.

(10:34): If you're a visionary, you need to find somebody that will sit in the integrator seat and really follow up on all those details for you and implement and integrate all those moving parts in the business. So I talked about five different positions or four different seats in the organization. But part of what we do when we sit down together is we have a blank slate and we say, okay, what is needed is a sales and marketing seats and the accountability chart better to separate them, or are they together? Safety compliance, business, accounting, GL who monitors those things. And we create the right structure. And then we on the other end of that right structure, then we evaluate candidates around the table and in the rest of our business, or maybe we have to go outside to as to whether or not they're great at those five key roles summarizing the job description.

(11:25): What do you do when you sit down and you go through this exercise, when you realize nobody's great at it, or nobody wants to do it, and you've got a gaping hole there, Just getting clarity. That that is an issue is a beautiful thing, because now I can know what I'm going to hire for not going to hire somebody that I'm already duplicating the functions that are covered really well, but I'm going to hire where they're not working out well. Yeah.

(11:51): We've found that same thing, that of relief where you're like, wow, now we know what we really need. And it's usually three or four people have been trying to do that job or parts of that job. So when you isolate it, it gives them a real sense of purpose now that wow, now we're going to have somebody that we can create this role for, or it may even be an outsource situation. We worked with a lot of companies where it's like, okay, we're going to outsource this particular element or there's somebody outside of this core team that can do that piece, whether it's accounting or a marketing firm that is going to take care of that. So just what it does is it highlights the importance of really breaking this down and finding out where your holes are and making sure that the people on your team are excited about what they're doing and doing the things that they should be doing. Yeah,

(12:42): Yeah. Not having enough people not having the right people to sit in. Those seats is one issue and that's on the challenging side. So we find somebody that gets wants and has the capacity to do those five roles really well on the positive side, what this exercise does when you take everybody out of their seats, is it sets you up for some great succession planning, which is also an issue for entrepreneurial companies. Hey, if one, person's out say they're down with an illness, maybe COVID, and they're out of the office for a couple of months, who's going to take their seat. And when that seed is defined, I can just go back to this exercise and say, okay, who were the other candidates for that seat? Cause we just, if it's only one person, there's no depth in the organization. If we can evaluate two and say, well, Dave's good at four of the five and Dwayne's good at five of the five roles in that seat.

(13:36): Great. Let's go with Dwayne. But if Dwayne is out for any reason or decides to move on, then we know Dave's a good backup plan for this. It also shows some aspirations. People want to move up. They want upward mobility. They want to move from PM to an operations director. And so we're going to see how that, where they're qualified, where they're not, and then we can over time mentor that person or help them gain the capacity to do that job really well. So succession is also great. And even when it comes to the integrator and visionary seats, man, to know that there's this transition plan at some point in the future, 10 years out, or maybe shorter than that, maybe longer than that, I know who's going to be a great candidate for that position.

(14:19): Well, how nice is it to actually map out some opportunity because there's so many contracting companies out there where the staff is not talking about the future, it's more of you just by the sheer nature of the business. You find yourselves a lot of times in a commodity based scenario where it's like, nobody's talking about the project managers futures, it's, everybody's got their head down and going in to take the time as a team to sit down to say, okay, this is where we're going. As a company, these are the different seats on the bus. We're going to continue to elevate and delegate. And you know, those are some other EOS we're familiar with here, but talk to everyone about the value of having your team go through this and sharing it and being transparent about where you're coming.

(15:01): I think I could sum it up and say ownership. That's the value of this is there are functions that are all happening, but until I delineate what those are, and then I opt in, I say, I want to sit in that seat. I want to do those roles. Then there's not really ownership. There's just assignment. I've hired somebody to fill a position. But when I say that's what I want. And I say, I get it wants it. Doesn't have the capacity. And the rest of the team acknowledges that and sits me in the seat. Now I have ownership and commitment. You can hold me accountable for those things, because I said I was all in for that. So that's a big summary. You mentioned the delegating idea. So most of the time, there's a better way to structure our business, where somebody is optimizing people, hiring a part-time position.

(15:49): There's a better way to do things. But what often gets in the way of that is lack of desire, true deep desire to delegate, meaning I'm just going to pass the Baton to somebody else. I'm going to let them do it first. I'm going to train them, make sure that they have the capacity to do it. But overall, it's not my job forever to hover over them and keep on doing it. That's not true delegation. And so really what gets in the way, that's a monumental day when we put this all on paper, right? What those roles are in boxes. Because if I walk out with one seat, I have five roles that I am going to do. But what it also tells me is 30 or 50 or thousands of other things that I'm not going to primarily be responsible for, especially visionaries, like to have their fingers in everything. Sometimes integrators do also. And this is just saying, Hey, I'm going to pass the Baton to you. I'm going to let you run with it. Even if it's not perfect, we're just going to get better. We're not expecting perfection, but progress towards that. It's a really big day to define that. And it's a freeing day to,

(16:51): I want to level up connect with us to share your stories, ideas, challenges, and successes. The building, The nuggets community is built on your experiences. It takes less than a minute to connect with us@buildingnuggets.com, Facebook or Instagram, One access to the resources that can take you and your team to the next level. One call could change everything. Just like it did for me.

(17:13): If I'm a visionary and I was sitting in the integrator seat at the end of the focus day, if I say, wow, I just get to do what visionaries do. That's what I always dreamed of. And then an integrator says, yes, well, I've been waiting for you to step aside so that somebody with competency and somebody with passion and ability can actually do this job really well.

(17:32): Yeah. That's an amazing point that think about the things that you're not going to be responsible for any more. And to your earlier point, getting stuff off your plate, it's fine to get stuff off your plate. But the reason for it should be that you're empowering somebody else with it. And you're not just passing the buck. It's not like you're just clearing crap off to give to somebody else who doesn't want it. It's finding people who do want it, who are empowered and that you're creating that opportunity for them to go out and grab it and own it and thrive. If, if somebody is being arbitrarily assigned stuff that they're just not into, it's going to be hard. If that's the, the bulk of their workload, you've got to commoditize situation again here. So that's,

(18:15): I'm just going to give a building example. If I have in the sales seat, somebody who's good at estimating. They know the business, they know construction, but we're shorthanded. We have some need that needs to happen. And that is flooring at one of the homes that we're building. And so this person knows how to do flooring, but they're the ones that are bringing in business and developing business and selling big accounts. But we pull him or her away from that business development. And we say, okay, we know that somewhere in your past, you did flooring. We really need to put you on this job to do flooring. That's great if you have the ability to do it and the depth to do it, but what's not great is when somebody has a great floor, we finished a project really well, that we're shorthanded on, but now our pipeline for busdev is going down the tubes.

(19:01): The story here is that we want to make sure that we're mobilizing every single person in our company to do what they love to do, what they're an expert at or great to do, and where they're bringing the most value to the company. If I have a visionary going out and cleaning up a site so that a customer's happy. Yeah, we all do what we need to do, but if that's consistent, that's what they're doing. They're not offering the greatest value to my company. That's a hundred dollar an hour person doing $20 an hour work. That's all wearing all that.

(19:37): Yeah. And getting sucked back in and you know what left to our own devices, we will always get sucked back in. And that's part of the beauty of Vos is the cadence that goes along with this, the rigid structure, like when you get a box, you're putting a firewall into that box so that you are not going into somebody else's turf. And this is how you see, this is how you get the owner out of their own way. And so many of the cases that we're working with builders, it's the owner getting in the way the project managers, they have the tools, they have the skills, they have the desire, the drive and everything. They can't quite do their jobs because they've got, like you said before, somebody trying to step in and, and do it their way, you got to empower them and get out of the way. So this is how to, how you focus all the energy and into educating and elevating and delegating. And it's so freeing when you see it working.

(20:26): Yeah. I'm going to point out something else here. I'm holding up just a simple accountability chart. And it's the result of several hours sometimes of work during the first day that we're working with a company. And once we have this chart written down and agreed on, we don't leave the room until everybody at least acquiesces, hopefully they buy in and they agree. What's nice here is that this becomes the way that we run our business. And when a person says, Hey, Dave, getting your lane, Hey, you delegated this to me. Let's go back to the accountability chart. Remember those five things that I said I wanted to do, I was good at, wanted to do and had the capacity to do. And you agreed. Yes, I do. I remember that. Then let me do my job. Get out of my way. Don't hold me back. And that's just that we call it hanging on to the vine. I'm so tightly hanging onto the vine that somebody can't flourish and do what they do really well.

(21:21): What's interesting is when it's your whole team that has bought into this, it's usually the person whose, whose bucket is being trampled upon. Isn't even the one who has to say it. Somebody else will tell them, get up there, get off their lawn, right. Because they can, all, everybody can see it. It's so crystal clear and, and yeah, it'll be interesting to see. We look forward to our listeners, reaching out to us and saying, Hey, show us how to get, how to get started here. And we'll, we'll point them in the right direction, because this has been a real compass for everyone, for where to go and how to get started into this

(21:55): Truly, truly transformational. Once you get this nailed, you mentioned getting started. David, I wanted to ask you, I know something that I've seen on a lot of folks when they've gone through this, especially the first time they sit down and do it as a group, it is amazing how difficult it is to get them to think of it with roles first versus people. I think they're just so used to, Hey, this is my team. Well, he's supposed to do that. She's supposed to do that. And they're not thinking of the role, you know, instead peel the people away. You have to do that first and really think about the essential, critical roles, you know, the fallen, those different functions of the business, the things that you need to do to get, to get work done, to get business done, you know, to run a successful company. Just if you don't mind commenting, I see that as a huge struggle with folks.

(22:38): Yeah. I've noted it most strongly, I think in family businesses, but it truly is in any business. Like if my name is on the last name of the company and I'm the son or the daughter of the owner founder, then I just kind of get into a seat without much thought to it. Just because my name is there. We don't take into consideration that I don't get it. I don't want it. And I don't have the capacity to do that job really well. So this is really a great opportunity for the whole leadership team to make sure that there's a clear understanding of what those roles are. And it is so difficult to fire everybody except for the HR person. They love it. When we say, Hey, we're taking everybody out of their seats, you're all fired from your position. We're going to work on what's the best structure, first, the right roles for that structure.

(23:23): And then people, they want the right people in the right seats. So force yourself to the discipline of take everybody out of the seats, dream of better ways to create a structure, get agreement on it. What are the roles in the seats? And now evaluate the candidates and evaluating the candidates. Don't evaluate them. Well, we have two ways to evaluate people. If they're the right people, that means they're aligned our core values. That we'll save that for another session, but right. Seats is just three questions. Do they get it? Do they want it? And do they have the capacity? You know, I work with companies in India. So I'll use cricket as an example. You might use hockey or baseball or football, but if you take any position on the field or on the team on the ice and you just described, what are the five key roles of a goalie?

(24:09): What does a goalie need to be really great at or forward pick them and just list what those five are. It's fun to use a sports analogy and then just bring that back in the business and say, okay, now let's talk about a PM. Now let's talk about a finish carpenter. What are the five things they need to be great at? They need to be great at 20, but what are the five primary ones? And then evaluate every candidate. Do they get it? Do they want it? Do they have the capacity to do each one of those five things? World-Class if the answer is all yeses, it's easy. If it's some nos, if you see a path to a yes, it's okay. But ideally all the whole leadership team, especially, or including that person says yes to GWC get it, want it, capacity

(24:51): Teams go through this exercise. It's almost equivocal across the board that everybody needs to get rid of more stuff than take on more stuff to a certain degree. You know, I think that's what I tend to see is most people are dabbling in too many things, too many different types of roles. And I think that's another great thing that comes out of going through this exercise. You really do identify, you know, there's half a dozen things that I just don't need to be doing. I shouldn't

(25:17): That's right. That's exactly right. I like to use well, it's seats, you know, dabbling, it's kind of fingers. I dabble in it, but seats is butts. People have, they'll sneak a cheek into a seat that they have no business being in. And we just want to know whose butt is in that seat. Meaning whose eyeballs am I looking into? And something goes off the rails or maybe it's fantastic. So in sales and marketing, who's sitting in that seat. I'm looking at that person. It's kind of going full circle to where we started, which is if two people are accountable, nobody's accountable, one person's accountable. They need the support and collaboration of a whole family, a whole company. But who's responsible for driving that that's the person that has an accountability that sits in that seat. Just one, but in the

(26:02): Seat, one button, the seat, no, you know, half cheeks sneak, it's not musical chairs. That's right. That's right. We want the right person there. Yeah. Can a person sit in two seats? It's out of necessity often for a smaller company. I find getting together with the leadership team and say, there's, you know, three or four people on the team and maybe that's it. I think there's no other people. They're all subs they're outside, but I just need to create those seats, the basic accountability chart, and then multiple people can't sit in one seat, but one person can, and sometimes has to sit in two seats. But in ELs fashion, when that happens, we just see, does a person have the time capacity to do those two or three jobs? Really? Well, the answer is often no. And so it's not going to change overnight. I may not have the budget to hire people or they might not be available.

(26:59): The GWC may not be available, but I keep that circled. I keep it on my issues list. And then I'm just looking with HR firms or giving people bonuses. If they recruit somebody that will do roofing or whatever that is so that I can get the right person in that seat eventually. And we as entrepreneurs know, sometimes we just have to buckle down, pull our bootstraps up and we do everything. We wear a whole lot of different hats, but we do it for a season. It's not our ideal life. It's not the way that we want to live long. We want to get people in those seats and the accountability chart, this exercise, they'll say, Dave, we only have three people. I'm like create all the seats that you see yourself needing in six to 12 months. And maybe you'll have 10 seats. You only have three people. Well, you're going to be sitting in multiple seats. But even that clarity is great because I don't see myself as the accountant if I'm the visionary. But if I'm the one that's sitting in that seat, because I don't have the funds to have a accounted person or bookkeeper, well, we at least know on the eyeballs that you're looking at. If something needs to happen with the accounting seat and talk about

(28:05): Motivating, to be able to elevate somebody else, to delegate that to them or to have somebody else come in to do it. So you can focus on your highest and best use and where you add the most value to the company, because you're actually, you've defined it. You're talking about it. You're having weekly or monthly meetings about it. You're looking into each other's eyes. You're actually getting done. And that's a key, a key part of this is again, left to our own devices. This can gets kicked down the road, you know, you're forever talking about, well, what, maybe we should do this isolates, the isolates, everything brings it to the forefront. Like we said before. Cause a giant relief, but now you can focus and yeah, it's, it's an exciting exercise.

(28:50): Yeah. If I could see the audience I'd ask, Hey, who has time to do this? Who has time to spend a whole day, several hours on accountability chart? No. Who would raise their hand? We don't have time for it, but here's my challenge. I don't think you have time not to do this. It's that crucial. It brings that much clarity to the organization. You don't have to chase your tail around or wonder who's doing what? Just go back to that document that you spend a half a day working on that you all agreed on and say, Hey, this is it's living and breathing. We could change it, but let's just, let's just work together on this to make sure that we have people that we're putting in the right seats. I don't have time for that is the definition of insanity, right? We'll just keep doing the same thing, hoping for different results.

(29:33): So it happens because they, they don't business owners that haven't the don't know enough about it yet. They, where am I going to find the times to do that? I have no time to do it. I don't know if this thing works. I've tried other stuff before and they're concerned that they're going to do an exercise and then there's nothing is going to happen. It's a real commitment. It's a day or two to dig into this stuff. It's not, you have to find it.

(30:00): And you're living, breathing, ongoing document and exercise. You don't do this one time, put it in a file cabinet. And you're all done. This stays with you. It stays with your company. You can do it on a regular cadence. And as you said, as the, as the company grows, as the company starts to change, you're always going to have that roadmap ad to you to find out what butts you need at any given done,

(30:20): Right? Because our businesses contract and grow, they should, and we need to be at the forefront of that. We need to look out into the future and become great at predicting, Hey, what do I need to finish projects this quarter or this year? Where do I need to hire? Where do I need to consolidate? COVID taught us this too. We had like this reverse accountability chart exercise where we just try to group up things together because we just didn't have the resources nor the work to continue with the structure the way it was. But what's beautiful. We go back to where we were and say, okay, where can we, where do we need to cut back or move shift people to another seat for a season. So definitely worthwhile the timing gets brought up all the time. I would, Dave, we don't have enough time to plan, just plan for a day and not do the work of the business.

(31:07): And if we don't take that time away, the business will certainly run us rather than us running our business. So whether that's the accountability chart, whether it's the priorities for the next 90 days, we call them rocks. Whether it's El 10 meetings, that's just meetings. We just call the level 10 meeting for certain reasons, a scorecard or the whole vision for the organization. We call it VTO, taking time to line out those five documents. I mean, your business will be transformed if you just implement any one of those tools. But if you implement all five of those tools, man, you will start getting what you want from your business and enjoy.

(31:44): It's ironic because what we do cannot be done without a proper plan, building somebody home or renovating their house takes so much planning. And we all know the trouble that we can get in with an improper plan. Or when we deviate from what we know is the right way to set this up. And if you're doing it dozens of times over for clients, why aren't you taking the time to do it for yourself and not just for yourself, but this is how you create real opportunity for your employees and get buy in from them. They're the ones who are going to build your business. You think you built a business, your employees, your staff, the rest of your team are the part that's building a business for you. So you, you owe it to them

(32:25): For folks listening out there. It can be tempting to say, oh yeah, I need an accountability chart and run right out there and just do an accountability chart at the end of the day. It's, you're going to get some value out of it, but you're probably going to complicate the EOS process. If you know, if you embrace something like EOS and you take it, but the time in it actually becomes simple in the end, be careful of just pulling one piece out of this, trying it and getting frustrated with it because you don't have the entire view. So obviously if you want to know more about EOS, how to get started, you can reach out to Dave and I, he can reach out to David. Be glad to point you guys in the right direction. I'd love to do that.

(33:00): Yeah, you'll mess it up. If you try and you'll get frustrated. If you try and do it yourself, having somebody else again, this takes the pressure off you having a third party coach or expert come in and help you with this points you in the right direction, saves the time that we were talking about earlier. And it's actually some enforced accountability to the spinach factor there because you know, you won't get around to it and you won't do it the way it needs to be done. And then the exercise will be futile and yet you'll have wasted your time and you know, upset, oh, this EOS thing doesn't work and you won't get the benefits of it. And that's, that's what happens when you sort of implement something.

(33:38): So David has always, man, thanks for taking the time in valuable stuff. What's on the horizon for you. It's something that anything exciting coming down annual season. So think a lot of companies right now, this is just moving into when people, at least here in the U S are operating on a fiscal year, that's usually a calendar year, pretty close to that. So we spent two days working with our clients on building team health and planning out having our annual business plan, all set for the future because that's a big framework. Also. We need to get that talk through. We don't make decisions in a vacuum, even if we're the entrepreneur leader, visionary integrator, we do that collaboratively as a team so that everybody's moving in the same direction. Everybody's rowing in the same direction. And so I look forward to that. It's a great season of day annuals for my clients. So that's what I'm getting ready for on the horizon.

(34:26): We're looking forward to that too. Actually. We've got our days booked already as well. So for anyone out there listening, how can they find you email traction partners@gmail.com? Or you can find me at my website. Maybe we can pass along the link with the podcast of that. Absolutely. Thanks again, man. Yeah, Always a pleasure gentlemen, take care.

Hey, thanks for listening. Dwayne and I love hearing from you. Your stories are inspiring and your challenges can be overcome. Got a cool tip? Idea for a show? Problem that you haven't been able to solve or maybe just struggling to figure out what you need next and where to get it. We can help. Hit us up at BuilderNuggets.com and start building freedom.

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