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To be the leader you want to be, you first need to work on yourself. How uncovering your inner strengths (and weaknesses) can propel your team.

As the leaders in our businesses we spend a lot of effort on the success and development of our team. In this episode we’re shifting the focus to you, and we’ve brought in a pro to help you unlock what’s already there.

High performance business and leadership coach Michael Dauphinee joins us to discuss how to recognize your true potential and remove the biggest obstacle in your way — you!

Show highlights include:

  • Who are the 6 people that will carry your casket? (3:01)
  • Why achieving your dreams causes burnout (5:10) 
  • How neglecting your health slowly sabotages your business (8:25) 
  • The 4 types of fear that thwart you from reaching your full potential(and how rigorous honesty dismantles your fears) (12:57) 
  • Are you in touch with what actually scares you? (13:57)
  • The “2030 You” mindset shift that frees you from guilt and shame that keeps your business stuck where it’s at (17:06) 
  • How reverse engineering your own obituary helps you 10x the impact you make during your life (18:50) 
  • There are spouses, children and families that are living in the wake of how well you run your homebuilding business (25.23)
  • The simple 4-ingredient recipe that transforms disaffected employees into your most loyal followers (27:14) 
  • How clinging to past success suffocates your future growth potential (and how one question unlocks unfathomable growth) (36:31)

To get the most out of this podcast, head over to https://buildernuggets.com  and join our active community of like-minded builders and remodelers.

Read Full Transcript

Are you in touch with what actually scares you?

Welcome to another episode of Builder Nuggets, the show where builders and remodelers discover how to build thriving businesses while working less. I'm Duane Johns and together with Dave Young, we share the elements of success that have helped hundreds of contractors like you build better lives.

(00:22): We have a leadership expert joining us today from Olympic athletes to fortune 100 corporate execs to decision-makers and active war zones. This guy loves helping high performers recognize their true potential and remove the biggest obstacle in their way themselves. As the leaders in our businesses, we spend a lot of effort on the success and development of our team. And this episode, we're shifting the focus to you and we brought in a pro to help you unlock what's already there. So joining us from Minneapolis, Minnesota is high performance business and leadership coach Michael Daphne. Welcome to build building nuggets, Michael, thanks for having me guys screen to be on with you. You work with decision makers in active war zones, but you know, that really caught me when I was getting to know you and reading about what you've done. Is that a lot like helping someone who oversees a contracting business or a job site, is that an accurate war zone or what you know, between trying to get things done and deal with insurgency?

(01:18): I'm sure it's gotta be, it's gotta be very similar in some ways, right? I've been working in the leadership development space for about 15 years and in 2011, I got a phone call from a doctor who said, Hey, we do medical consulting in Afghanistan, pro bono. Would you like to come in to do some leadership stuff for some students and maybe some maybe occasional government piece? And I was like, why not? I mean, who gets invited to go to Afghanistan? So I spent my own money hopped on a plane and went to Kabul. And that began what has basically been a nine year relationship. They're initially doing work for nonprofits, universities, and eventually doing leadership development for the Afghan ministry of the interior of the British embassy funded a project for us to basically work on creating leadership development for police officers. So all non-combat security.

(02:05): So I spent the majority of 2017 to 2018 commuting every six weeks to and from Afghanistan while also coaching exact sets, car companies and small businesses. So yeah, it's a fascinating world. And yeah, I'm always passionate about, anybody's willing to try to do good work in places that need the most good. So, yeah, that's awesome. And you have some really cool clients on your, on your resume as I was going to, you know, we've talked about it a little bit before, but you know, not many people who get to work with professional sports teams. So, you know, Detroit lions, we know you've done some work with the major league baseball teams, Maserati, like that's a cool list, a diverse range of experiences. You know, people are like, do you go after those names? And I was like, actually, no, it's, it's really been if people follow me on Instagram, social media, LinkedIn, they know the follow.

(02:56): The relationship is a key element for me. And it literally is this space where I think leaders part of what they need beyond understanding themselves is they need to know who their people are. We want our clients, you say, who are your six? Meaning? I think Bob Goff is the guy who says, who are your six meaning who are the six people who will carry your casket? And so he talks a lot about know those people, like the importance of knowing who your six people are, because at the end of the day, you need to know who you can call on to be trusted relationships or referrals. And in my industry at the level I'm working out with clients, you don't just hire me. You don't just hire somebody to like share in your deep, darkest fears and secrets and the thing you're trying to do unless they have been well referred and trusted.

(03:39): And so it's been great to see how, you know, working with United, the CEO of United way to Troy's led me to working Jeep grand Cherokee is specifically in their factory, in their plant, which then led to corporate, which has led to. And so I think that's a big piece. And so even an insight that is this, I think about leaders in your industry, having those trusted relationships, it can feel so isolating who are your six, like who are those people? And I can tell you immediately how healthy leaders are going to be, if the factor of they, they know who their people are, they're going to act as resources for them in running their business. And that's a great place to start, but yeah, my clientele, every single one of them, I can lead back to almost two, to maybe four maximum. I didn't lead back to four relationships that have been key, ultimately,

(04:30): Wow, this is such a relationship driven business and how important relationships are. And, but I don't know that a lot of folks really take the time or the effort to, I don't know, maybe manage or really, you know, cultivate those relationships. A lot of times they've just happened. So that's very interesting how you, how you put that. And I have heard that before that's, that's spot on with the six people,

(04:49): Ultimately at the end of the day D I dream for yourself will only take you so far, right? At the end of the day, you find when it comes to li you know, you can have an idea of what, no matter how you got into whatever business you're in, whether I'm dealing with founder of a startup or someone who has a small business in a small company is trying to go larger, or even executives at the highest level that initial drive writes about a dream you have for yourself, the impact you want to make the things you want to accomplish, the things you want to do, but it will eventually not be enough. At some point, it is going to get too hard. You're going to get tired. And the research shows again and again, that a mother will somehow stay afloat to keep her child afloat, right?

(05:33): A cause bigger than yourself is a must. And if your vision isn't big enough to include other human beings into the story of what it is you're doing, I think you're missing out on half the power of what it is that can keep you going. And so, a lot of times I meet leaders who their challenge isn't, they don't have a great revision is that their vision is too small. Their vision is my family, my own business, being sustainable, being stable, getting to have options and choices. What they don't realize is that there are people watching them do business. There's a wake behind them and people are watching, huh? How do they do business? And if they realize not only is that the thing they produce, but it's the lives influenced while they produce it, you can get another vision for again, no matter the business, no matter what it is.

(06:20): And so that's where you start to expand, what am I really capable of? And so having that cause that passion to go, this isn't just about having a product it's about having a business. It's not about just doing the thing it's about impacting human beings while we, as a team do that. And I think that having being clear on your why Simon Sinek kind of, kind of frame that up very popularly on most YouTube channels, start with why it's a nice anecdote. It's a nice catch phrase, but do you know, because it's the part of the business that makes the rest toddler

(06:54): You've teed this up very nicely because our, our next point or the next thing that we wanted to talk about with Simon Sinek, start with why we were in a training session. One time that one of our counterparts did, and he was going through the concept of the golden circle that that Simon has with how, what and why in the center. And in this session, he drew another circle in the middle of that and said, that's who, that's the, who that powers the Y that's your team. That's the people that those are the relationships that are going to make your Y happen. And today, and that's a, that's a huge piece, you know, your team and the people who are going to make it happen. And today we're drawing another circle in the middle of that. We can call it the bullseye and it's you.

(07:45): And we're starting with you, you know, and this is something that you train a lot on, or you teach with leaders is in order to give the most to your team. And we focus so much on our teams and creating an opportunity for them. And sometimes we overlook what we need to do for ourselves. And that's what struck me in our earlier conversations is you take that team leader, you start with them, you teach them everything that they need to know or put them on that path to uncover themselves so that they can deliver the most to their team. Walk us through how you go about doing that or what, or what you see in leaders.

(08:22): Yeah, because I think, you know, one of the things I'll say to my clients a lot is that your company, your business will never be healthier than you are. It can't be your business will never be healthier than you are. And so most leaders will confuse surviving for thriving. Like they survived, they're getting it done. They're there. The bills are paid. They haven't gone under, but let's be clear success and surviving is a whole different ballgame. And so I wrote a book in 20, it was a book that was published. A publishing house, published me in 2018, early 19 called extraordinary the world soldier map, but what you need a compass. And in that book, I lay out this idea that instead of a map to your world, you needed a compass. Why? Because a map insists that if you're going to follow a map, somebody has been everywhere. You're going to go think of it. Like they've mapped it. They have all the routes. And all you got to do is pick the route you want. It goes there. I can tell you living in America, living during times of COVID and I'm sure you'd agree. The reality is we live in a time where we run off the map. We run off the map. The world no longer operates on the rules that have been mapped out for us, literally since 1950 post-World war II,

(09:35): Same with the industry. You know, the industry, there is no map for this stuff. There's so many builders out there doing things a different way, different building codes, everything. So it makes total sense. It's totally relatable to our industry as well. It's one of the main reasons we even started this podcast was there's such a wealth of knowledge. There's people out there that have not only, not only found the map, found the compass, they found out how to use them together. And that's great when you start tapping into that,

(10:04): Cause you're tapping it. Cause you've got to not obviously not. You don't want to discard what has been mapped out. There's no point of that, but you need to know how to navigate and then different way. You've got to have a direction that goes, well, look, I don't know. The map ends here. I'm pretty sure they're like dragons is the old maps would say, when you look at the ocean, is that beyond here, lies dragons. People don't know it's out there. Well, you've still got to know if you're moving in the right direction. And so is the idea of, we need to develop a compass more so than hunt for someone else's map and the world is out there going, well, you need, on some ways you need a boat. Like you said, Dwayne, it's a matter of knowing the both. And so ultimately when you ask about starting with the leader, I find too many leaders right now are going to say my grades. I got that the world has changed. I need to take my old map and I needed a new compass. Terrific. How do I map out? We feel the realize is one of most valuable parts of the GPS on your phone is the little button that says current location, no map, no compass, no GPS is helpful. If you don't know your current location and you you are here,

(11:15): You are here. And that's that piece is that. So when you ask, where do I start? Most leaders, the scary part for them is the fact that it has to start with. Do you know where you are? You've got to get honest about everything from your finances, to your mental health, to your physical health, to your relational health, to all of those things is all of that. Because I actually say between strategy and a result, very clearly, there's a human being in the midst of that. And unless you're willing to deal in rigorous honesty with where are no map, no compass, no route, no book you buy is going to be enough to get you there because you don't know where to start from.

(12:04): There's a little bit of silence there because I think it's so spot on. I was waiting for you to say no dip ever later. Oh yeah, yeah. Really? Here we go. Yeah. I mean, one of the I talk about a lot. It's it's common commonly said in, in, in our industry, probably many others, but you know, there's no book for this. It's really difficult to just, you know, find that total manual that just says, Hey, here's how to get started. Here's that open your business. Here's how to be a leader and all that stuff. But like you said, the map, the map is out there. But even if you have the map, you have the compass, you have the tools. None of that means a thing. If you haven't admitted, not only found but admitted where you

(12:46): Well, cause I mean, so again, like one of the things, so I have a coach, I mean, I think every good coach, I always say never hire an executive coach. He doesn't have a coach. That's a really bad idea. They should be able to be coached all the time. They need to be able to. And I used to have a coach. You said named John, he used to say to me all the time, the gap between what you say you want with your mouth and what you choose when times are tough, is almost always filled with fear, fear of looking bad, fear of feeling, bad, fear of being wrong or fear of being out of control. And in those four and out of those four, there's usually one or two that are like your fear of choice. And I think how many times have you sat down with builders that you're like, you say, you want this clearly and we have a route to actually get you there.

(13:31): And they say, yup. Yup. Yup. But when it comes time to choose it, when it comes time to step into the action, when they go okay, between what I've been doing and what I have to do, if you get honest about it, it is almost always a fear of being wrong, looking bad, feeling bad, or being out of control. It's something in there. And so then the only answer then isn't to go, well, let me show you the plan again. Let me show you the information again. Then you have to deal with, are you in touch with what actually scares you? I started my professional career, like out of college, working in juvenile drug rehab in Northern California, kids would be arrested convicted. And if, if they had a drug habit, right. If they could serve their time in one of these facilities that I worked at as a home and I was, I was a senior counselor and they talk about over and over again and rehabilitation programs that it requires rigorous honesty, rigorous honesty that you can't actually go from where you are to the healthy one without your honesty.

(14:36): And so I remember one of my goals, a couple of years back was to decrease my business debt. I was talking to my coach, John. And he's like, he's like, so one of your goals for the year is decrease your debt by a certain I'm like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, it's like, well, how much, you know, like, you know, probably 30, 40% of that. He's like, okay. He's like, well, how much is your debt? And I'm like, well probably. And I gave him a number. He's like, he's gonna be here probably out of your mouth. One more time. I'm going to hang up the phone and figure out the number he's like, well, because of it, we deal in sort of, well, I think it's around. And of course, when I did look at it, it was double the number I told him and he's like, Mike, we can't make a plan to change the course of your life.

(15:17): If you won't start with being honest, what is your current debt? What is your current revenue? What are your current actions? It starts with the hard part is that causes all kinds of feelings. I'm just trying to prove that I still viable business. I'm trying to give it to myself. I'm businessman. And so what I do, I put up a shell. So when someone comes along with a better plan on how I, how I could expand my business, how I could follow another pattern of doing business different, I go, well, I, I don't need that. Is that I have to admit that either. I want more. I'd have to admit that that makes you feel out of control sometimes, but see secretly, we want that. We want those relationships. We want those methods, but we've got to be able to be rigorously, honest with ourselves about fear. And that's where we have to start.

(16:09): It sounds like you have to be honest about your current location. It's not a generality I'm sorta here. It sounds like the first step is really sitting down with someone and going and having them ask you the questions and say, this is where I really am. This is my precise location of my business. And even better if you know how you got there

(16:31): And do it completely judgment free, I don't give a rip what you did yesterday. Gary, John Bishop, who's a coach, great Scottish accent now being shaped by his life in Florida. But he loves to talk about human beings live as if they're being pushed along by their past. Well, I'm here. Well that's because this, this and this happened. Like we tell our story backwards of all these other things. And we do feel guilt, shame or excuses about our current place, where we are clearly. And we make a reason for it. I don't care about yesterday. Cause what if, if your life has been pushed along by the past, you can actually reverse it and go the opposite direction. What if your future, you, I would say to anyone out there owning small, owning a business and you know the builders that are out there, what does 2030 you wants you to do right now?

(17:18): Act like your future is pulling you along. And so then you can look at objectively, well today, no shame, no guilt. I don't care what you've done perfect or not. This is where I am. This is the current state of my business. I have no guilt. And that's the end. I think that's part of what drew me to you. The conversation is this idea of a guilt free judgment, free zone of how do we help people? Because when you're isolated, your idea is no one is no one's asking the questions I'm asking like, no, there is no answer. I've got it. I got to figure it out myself. Surely there is, there is. Yeah. You know, I can't help. But think back to episode four with Steve bark house talks about building a life plan. What's interesting about that is he's created his own map.

(18:02): So for him, it's very easy to know at any point in time where he is on that map. So I can also see the point that it's really important to find out where you are, but you also need to know relative to the, the map of what, like you said, if you don't have anything mapped out for where you want to be, where you're going to be in three years, five years, 10 years. How do you even know where you are today? Yeah, because we, one of the things, I mean, I'm a cer I'm certified in business made simple materials. So a lot of people are familiar with Donald Miller, his drive for the last 10 years or so has been StoryBrand this idea of how story impacts, how we see our worlds. And so his whole framework is much like a movie and that is reverse engineering from a climactic scene.

(18:43): You need to know one where you are, but you need to know what's that penultimate moment. And so I did this, this weekend with a group, we started by writing our obituaries and we start from, what does that look like? And how do we reverse engineer that? And kind of go, we want people to say our lives mattered like this. This is what, this is who our lives mattered to. This is what they said about us. When we were done. This is how we had showed them love over the next 40 years. And it's a matter of reverse engineering it, but for the leader, you've got to start with honesty about going, okay. But to get there for me, I did mine. I'm going to die June 15th of eight when I'm 86. So basically 40 years from now. And I'm okay with that. But don't wait for me to get there.

(19:30): That means that there's five-year ten-year and one year goals along the way. But the leader has to start with being honest with themselves. Walk us through the process of, you know, when you sit down with a leader or a group of leaders or let's, let's use one-on-one as an example, because it will be relevant for most of our audience here, you do that assessment. W what happens next? Where do you go? So we basically use Clifton strengths as a tool. Gallup created it to kind of map out what are your natural tendencies with regards to thought, feeling and behavior. So we have language around that. Then we assess well-being, which is based on five factors of finance, health, purpose, community, and relationships. Are you surviving thriving, or just barely getting by? Are you kind of barely surviving? Are you just kind of getting finished there?

(20:23): You kind of like making it, or are you like actually like thriving, like kind of off the charts and you kind of assess where that is and then you push it. Like one of the things you can do to figure out what is getting in your own way is like, with clients, I love to have them tell me, well, Mike, I had a guy he's a real estate developer in San Diego and he's like, I would really like to do 600,000 this coming year for my business. And I was like, terrific. Okay. That's great. I said, he's like, I want you to plan for that. And I said, okay, cool. Let's add a zero. I said, one of your target was 6 million. And he's like, what are you talking about? I said, well, tell me, what would it take for you to do 6 million next year that people think you're being crazy?

(21:03): Oh, you're just being pie in the sky numbers. I was more interested in what things came up for him as barriers when you suddenly made the goal so big that it blew through his normal way of thinking. Well, don't you, when you challenge somebody like that, suddenly you see fear, you see what they believe. They start to list all the reasons why they didn't say it. And so we will assess kind of like, what are your strengths, talents? Where are you? Then we set a goal and then we add a zero and see what shakes out. Then we go critical actions. Like, how do you break it into 12 months, six months, 30 day sprints. And then here's the last big piece. And some of the coaches I've had have been great about this. We have to learn as leaders to turn up the integrity between what we say and what we do is that I watch leaders every January make plans.

(22:00): When it comes to actual action, they're going to probably do they need to do, I should do well. I went, my coach. He's like, none of those things mean anything to me. What will you do between now? And the next time we talk and then if I do or don't do, it's not about shame. It's about me going, what did I want more than the thing I said, I wanted, how do I step into that? And so it's not integrity. Now. I'm not talking about integrity from a moral, ethical or legal perspective. Integrity of a building means it is putting together. Everything is joined. There are no gaps. The floor has integrity. The walls have integrity. They are a whole, and then divided leaders have to get honest, where are you? What do you want? And then say, do my words and actions match. And if they're not matching, I've got to break my actions into smaller pieces, or I'm going to figure out what I really do want. I've got to reframe that. And so it's a matter of assessment. And then finding opportunities to say, what is it I'm really wanting? And why is there a gap between what I say and what I do

(23:10): A quick reminder, that the best way to get the most out of this podcast is to engage with the builder nuggets community, visit our website@buildernuggets.com and follow along on Facebook and Instagram.

(23:24): Do the lines get blurred between I'm working on myself and I'm working on my business. Do you ask them questions about themselves? And then it comes back to they're describing something that's in their business. And the opposite does the opposite happen where, you know, I've got this problem in my business. And that goes back to them as the root. I could see that exercise being going back and forth like ping pong. Well, yeah, cause because we all have this fantasy that we are so different at work than we are at home. Like we're so different at work. And when actually we typically aren't, if you're micromanaging your employees, it's because of something that you're feeling about yourself, there's some narrative or story about this. Or if you are really, really great at execution, but you're terrible at vision and dreaming, like that's going to show up in multiple places.

(24:09): And so you want drive me crazy, call me a life coach. I just find that insulting for people. I'm like, like, what is a life coach? Like I get it. As soon as you have life cooks on the show, I just feel it's an audacious. I'm like, I don't, I'm not somebody's life coach. I can't do that for you, but I'm going. But for leaders, you are setting, you are creating reality for your followers. You're setting direction. You're putting resources in order actions, in order become strategy. That all has to be delivered through health. And so it's not a matter of I'm like I'm a psychologist. Although clients will sometimes spill the deep dark scenes in their life. It's a matter of seeing that. What flows out of you professionally is also flowing in your home. It's also flowing back in that matters. It just does the people that are your leading Galvin survey.

(24:56): I think couple years back, 2018. Last time I knew the numbers. 67% of people surveyed said the individual there's the greatest impact on their overall wellbeing other than their spouse or partner was their direct report. Supervisor 67% of people said the person or the greatest impact on their overall wellbeing other than their spouse or partner was the direct report supervisor. If you have people who are following you, you hold life and death in their hands. And guess what? Their spouses and kids and families who are living in the wake of how well you run your home, building business.

(25:33): Most people in their business do end up taking the work home with them because they can't get it all done in the allotted time. And we're in an industry where you feel like your clients should have access to you or problems. One access to clients want access to you. Your team wants access to you on demand. And that takes some discipline in our industry to be able to create that, create that separation. So it isn't coming into the home. Well, it's funny you get it once before you do it again, you kind of segwayed us into the segue leaders, owners, getting, getting the hell out of their own way. I, myself, it was one of the things I had to work on several years ago for myself, which is getting out of my own way to let this great team that I had built around me do it.

(26:19): We've embraced a lot of the traction EOS concepts. I think the biggest benefit of it is, is really getting that buy-in. So how do you know, I think as a leader, if you don't get the buy-in from those you're trying to lead, you know that they just hear you say, this is my idea. This is my idea. And we talked about this last year, we talked about it again this year. You know, those things repetitively keep getting talked about, but don't get done. But the minute you can get some buy-in to where the team is actually seeing some results and, and participating in some of those things. What's your thought process on that things that followers want from leaders is very, very clear.

(26:54): I did a lot of research around this idea because they were spending high-performing leaders for years and they came back with [inaudible] 20,000 people who literally just would identify as not leaders. I'm led by somebody else to find out what they wanted. And now they have some generic terms. And then I'll kind of break it down into smaller pieces. The four things that they said the followers want from leaders were trust, compassion, stability, and hope. And so in their book, strengths strengths-based leadership. They break this out. Trust, compassion, stability, hope, trust, meaning, you know what? You were trustworthy and dependable, your words and actions matched. So trust compassion, I was more than just a cog in your wheel. I was a human being. And even during chaos, chaotic times, you recognize that we're all in the same storm, but we're not in the same boat. So compassion, stability, you're not blown about by every whim and everything.

(27:52): Hope you're optimistic. So followers, if you're a leader of a team, if you just took those four things, that alone would help. But here's one of the key pieces. Your team wants to be invited into a mission. They want to be invited into something that matters. And so you gotta be clear on a strategy. Now, many leaps I find are busy with action, but not a strategy because strategy implies actions done in order now, yes, we know that there's an order to how you build according to plans, but in your business, do you have strategies? The power of strategies is you may, you do all the work of hashing out what you want and go on and then making a decision that exists for a certain period of time. And then you make another decision. Most leaders, instead of having strategies, they're making decisions off the cuff and their mind every night.

(28:44): So they're wondering if it's the right decision to borrow, and this is still a good plan to do this and isn't it still. And so suddenly these decisions are being made when they could create strategies and follow plans and partnerships to go, you know what I chose at once for this phase, it works like this. Now I do this. And so that's the power of having actually a strategy and a mission. And so when I work with clients, one of the key things we'll do is what are the guiding principles of your company? And we do mission characteristics, actions, story, and theme, like this is the driver. And so using tools like EOS, like other things that you guys offer and are talking about, it takes the pressure of, I've got to have every decision resting on me 24 hours a day and going, I don't even think about that. I've decided I'm doing this. That is, this has been made. And I can have strategies, not just motion and action.

(29:36): We, we talk a lot about highest and best use. So when you identify those strategies or for a strategy,

(29:42): I think one of the things is in terms of getting out of the way, is recognizing that that doesn't need to be me. You know, if it's a marketing issue that can be somebody else's bucket. And this is what Dwayne and I coach a lot on is how to get out of the way, how to, how to focus on your own highest and best use the things where you move the needle the most, where you're most passionate about it and then provide support or encouragement or what you just talked about. The compassion, the stability, the hope, and the trust around the role that they're playing in your mission. That's key. How do you help somebody identify where they should be in all of that mix? Like a construction business owner, there is so much going on. You've got your typical things in business, but you've got an exceptional amount of risk.

(30:34): The number of people, human interactions, it takes to build a house and all the coordinating that goes around with that, the legal little galleys around all that, the dynamics and emotions of such a huge decision with clients, the lives of all the people. How do you help a leader figure out what they should be doing? Yeah, I think especially successful ones in an interesting way. Marshall Goldsmith, I think wrote a great book years ago called what got you here? Won't get you there. And that is a magic move. You can figure this out for leaders because most people end up being successful in what they've always done, and they wonder why their success tops out. And it's the realization of, Hey, look, what got me here will only get me here. I've got to somehow pivot to go to this whole next level of influence success, revenue, whatever it is. And so, like you said, there's a lot and someone who owns a building business, my first question is we've gotta be able to find ways to, with courage, be clear on what it is we don't know. Is that a hard thing for most people to admit? I mean, you guys know as much as I do. I find the yes for clients, for me, you know, I remember first time getting of my coaches, his first two questions were, tell me, what are you really capable of? And how are you getting your own way?

(31:56): I was like, well, what do you mean? And he's like, well, no, he's like would tell me, he's like, what are things that you do? And so when I'm working with leaders, I will often ask them. So tell me, where are you losing money? Because why? Because we're not told we don't think about bottom. We get, we get gross revenue numbers. We don't think about profit. We don't think about specifics. And we've learned to put up a face to the world to convince ourselves that we're still okay. And it's successful because that's what it takes to be confident to keep going what you got. But the truly successful leaders are ones who go, yup. This is what I do. Well, this is what I don't do well, and I'm pretty curious. Cause that's the key. Are you at least curious about what you don't know?

(32:39): If you can be clear about what you know and curious about what you don't know and don't run from, by with fear, you can actually start to fill those gaps with either process with relationships or tools you didn't know were there, but you will leave necessary tools for your success beside the road. If you don't realize that you need them. So I will always ask the question, tell me, where are you getting in your own way? Like, what do you think know truly though? So for example, I realized over the years, I'm an executive coach and consultant. Who've worked at the top of major companies and I'll work with them and move on. And they're like, why aren't you just working with Maserati in the sleep? Because one of the things for years that I would do is I, because of my own strengths, finder profile would never sell business that I couldn't 100% fulfill myself.

(33:28): I'm not going to be able to do 4,000 employees. So I wouldn't even offer that. I wouldn't talk about programs. I would limit myself to, I can coach your executive. There it is. And that's all I did not even realizing it. Now I realized that I'm always have to say, who else could I bring in? Who else could I partner with? Because I will get a God complex in my head. Oh, I see. I know. And I'm like, Mike, what are you curious about? What is it you aren't seeing? And so you need the relationships around you to tell you what you don't see. What are the most common things that business owners should be curious about?

(34:09): Sounds like they should be curious about the things that they're not good at. Yeah. It's basically, I think it's curious about where is my blind spot? What don't I know it's the curiosity of Christopher. I don't, I don't really care about working with leaders who are sure. In fact, I don't typically work with leaders who are like, yeah, I know, I know everything I need. It's it's the thing you think you need is people ignore the facts. Be like, it's not what you know, that's going to bite you. It's the thing you had never saw coming. When I work with people in Clifton StrengthsFinder themes. So I don't know if you guys are familiar. I know some of you have taken it before you have different results. Have you taken it before Dwayne? You familiar. So in Dave, we've talked through so many, we need another hour for my results.

(34:54): I've got the results. What are your first? So Clifton StrengthsFinder themes is based on Gallup's desire to figure out what makes people high-performing. And they found that the more you could operate using instinct to perform tasks, the more likely you were to be extremely high-performing. So the good news is as you have a profile, things that you see and do and feel naturally the bad news is that it becomes so natural. You don't value it or see it as being important. But what's fascinating is so for example, there's a thing called strategic. Strategic is constantly problem solving. They assess select strike very, very, very quick. They know which line of Costco is moving faster. They know which TSH checker is going to slow. They know which car, which lane of traffic on the highway is moving faster or slower. So their brain is assessing selecting Stripe.

(35:45): When a problem comes, do you know what they spent endless amounts of time worrying about missing the turn? That's what they worry about. What if I don't act soon enough? What if the turn comes and I, and I missed the turn. So they're obsessing about what decision they can't be a second too late for, do you know what? It usually ends up biting them. They go too fast. It's never the thing that they're obsessing about. Oh, well, you know, wait a minute. Where's the numbers. I've got another company right now having they've had massive growth this year and they're going well, you know, we can't possibly hire more bodies for the factory because we have always said that we've won because they're very methodical contexts discipline. Cause they're worried about being undisciplined, being reckless. When what's going to guide them is not being responsive. They're also afraid to let go of some of the things that got them here.

(36:36): That's what the default is. But Hey, but wait. But that got me here that got me here and that kept me safe. And it's really hard to grow when you're not willing to shed some of those things. And like you said, exercise that curiosity, we call it open-mindedness to where it's Hey, what else? I wouldn't mind seeing if there's something, is there a better way? I mean, this is how the very first conversations I ever had with Dwayne were real conversations about, Hey, is there a better way to do this? What have you found? What's what's going on in that led, that led to more in us working together. But we find that in the top builders that we deal with, there's a little bit less than you go. There's more, open-mindedness, there's a natural curiosity. And there's almost like a craving to find out what they don't know.

(37:24): And it serves them well when they're willing to do it. But man, we're in an industry where it's really tough to either admit that there's things that you don't know, or it's quite prevalent from a business standpoint for you to want the world to see that everything is really good because our clients are custom home clients. They are looking for a great deal of security from us. And they're looking for that security and what you look like online, how your story is being told what your job sites look like. All those things give them comfort. So it's really, you know, builders in particular really have to put on that face. It's there's not many clients out there that say I'm looking for the vulnerable builder and we're not saying you have to like suddenly have it. I call it the yard sale where like you've screwed your crap over the front yard and said, everybody come look at my dirty laundry, but you're staying this slump.

(38:21): So I, as you guys are baseball fans, but Dale Murphy seven time MVP baseball for the Atlanta Braves. Dale's a friend of mine. So Dale and I will talk with different coaching sporting teams about the impact of Clifton strengths specifically on how you coach athletics. And Dale were, I was interviewing him for a show the other day. And we were talking about, for him, he was talking about being in a slump and he's like, okay, I've won multiple titles. That point he's like, he's having a season. And he said, he got into this, you got to know hitting slump multiple weeks, multiple weeks. And he was like, it was talking about how his strengths finder themes. One of which is belief in other ones, deliberative means that he's very cautious. And he's also very aware of how people see him. And he's like, when you're in a slump, you want to just change things up.

(39:11): He's like the best thing you can do as a hitter in a slump is changed. Anything you possibly think of to break the rhythm of whatever is actually kind of locking you in to this failing activity. He's like, so I would have these, any set. I would have these thoughts about, I should change this. I should ask this person. I should drive. He's like, but every time I would get there, what will the press say? When they see I've made a change? What would he say about me? He's like, and I would sit in a slump for weeks because I got so he's like, so part of what I do naturally was locking me in, instead of being curious about going, but what if it could be the key he's like, I result. He's like I would rest on. Here's what I know. They will say something.

(39:51): They will question me. Why did I suddenly change this? Why do I think it's safe? It's true for leaders, especially small business owners. They're going well, why would you change? You've done this for so long. And you're like, because I'm hungry for more. My dream is for more. My family needs more. But the fear back to my four fears, feeling bad, looking back, being wrong, being out of control, they get in the way. And so I think if leaders can go, if they could find a safe space, my client, I would say, my clients call me. I said, people are like, why did they hire you? I'm like, well, you've got this big spiel, but ultimately clients hire me so they can call me at three in the morning to hear me say, I see you. You're not alone. And I'm not scared. And I think in relationships, whether it be in associations, clients, people, you hire coaches, you hire whatever it is.

(40:41): You're looking for people that can stand there with you and say, I see you. You're talented. I also see that you're not perfect. And let's discover how we can make you a success together. And it's about being curious about what you're not and making space in your life to go. You don't need to be afraid anymore. You can actually have people that can step into this with you. So to the builder, that's out there and thinking, okay, I want to do some of this stuff. Who do they do that with? If they don't have a business coach, do you do it with another mentor? How does somebody get started and say, no, this is not something I'm going to do. Like how does somebody commit to that? Self-Discovery what are the resources for them? What do you recommend? Yeah. I mean, so you can only start with your own stuff, right?

(41:28): There's things you can do. Like somebody wants to just go, Hey, I wonder what my strengths are. Like you guys can go. People can go out to, I mean, Gallup's, it's GallupStrengthsFinder tool. You can go out there and take StrengthsFinder for example, to start self-discovery what are my talents? So Clifton strengths, strengths finder, 2.0 is the book. If you go to my.gal.com, people can take, you can buy it with a code and buy a code online. But if you're an individual and you're like, man, I don't have a coach. One set of education is great. You can start by reading books, taking assessments of those things. I would actually start with relationships. One cup of coffee. I have clients that I kind of watch out for that aren't actually even clients anymore. And I'm like, my mentor used to say to me, show me a person's calendar and the books they read and I'll show you who there'll be in five years.

(42:16): I mean like who you talking to? If I'm a builder and I'm by myself, man, I'm having a one cup of coffee a week with someone else, the industry to say, Hey, how are you? How are you doing? What's going out. I'd find some non-competitive relationship. That's going, listen. We don't even exist in the same segment, but what's keeping you sane. Like what are you doing? And again, we're talking about a bunch of people, working tools, people that came up in the nitty gritty, you know what? You got to talk to somebody who knows what it's like to swing a hammer who knows what it's like to put their own name and their own credit line on the line and say, I'm not here to judge you just what's going on. What's working. How are you staying afloat? I think the relationship, I think it'd be shocking to people to realize how critical the right relationships are in your business.

(43:07): That's exactly what we're trying to do here is create the environment where our audience can connect with us, can connect with each other and find those resources. And that's part of where we want to go because it is hard. And that's why I asked you, I want, I wanted to see it. And it is that cup of coffee or for Dwayne and I, it was a phone call and it was a phone call from me, how I ended up with, you know, where I am through somebody that I knew, but it was a, the relationship. And this is a safe spot for builders to have those relationships, not be competitive with each other, but to just find access to those resources for anybody out there, who's wants to figure out how to get started, reach out to us and Dwayne, or I will connect you with either somebody else who's been in your shoes.

(43:54): We have access to a lot of resources through what we're doing here, whether it's a business coach or any aspect of your business. And we'll spend some time with you and hook you up and get you having those cups of coffee or phone calls these days or zoom calls, depending on what part of the world you're living in. It's the scary conversation that doesn't have to be scary. We know folks all across North America here from builders to remodelers, to sub-trades business coaches across different industries. So yeah, that's exactly what we're doing here. You know, folks like you, Michael, you know, coming on to, to share what you're doing as well. It's funny when you talked about, you know, the hitting slump, I look at the slump that we tend to have a lot here in our industry and that's what we call the weeds, builders, remodelers.

(44:39): I think a lot of folks in the skilled trades will we'll quickly go back into what we call the weeds. And I think it's completely out of fear, as you said, you know what I mean? Something comes up, there's a challenge. They don't know. They're not sure what to do next. And they immediately go back to do busy work, doing what they're doing that makes them feel comfortable. And it's out of fear. It really is. Yep. Quick shout out to one of our builder nuggets, community members, Nicole Sellner it's because of her relationship with you and our relationship with her that she recommended you as speaker and guests. So, Nicole, thanks for that. When you meet somebody like Michael, you realize there are real experts out there who want to help you and who are willing to give their time, just like you did today.

(45:20): So thanks again. Well, lastly here, before we go out, what have you challenged yourself with personally? What are you, what are you trying to achieve here? And is your debt paid off? That everybody wants to know if your debt's paid off. I would like to tell you it was, and then COVID hit and it's like, wait, I like small business loans counts. It's one of those things where I think my, yeah, so the challenge for me is that the 2020 has been to relaunch. So I set I actually have the benefit of coaching as a business, some of the greatest triathlon coaches in the world. And so in return, I have taken on a triathlon coach myself. So I'm doing two triathlons by the end of this year. And also we're going back to Patagonia. I might take clients on international hiking expedition every year.

(46:07): And so to get back into the rhythm of that, it'd be nice to pay down some debt too, but that's not really high on the list at this moment, but it's, as a matter of, I think I also added for my year, my life plan for the year is I'm going to finish the next manuscript of my next book. So I look forward to that, put me down for a future trip to Patagonia, Chile. It's the way to go. It's a once in a lifetime experience, you guys should both come. Maybe we'll do a builder nuggets podcast from the Andes. Here we go off. It'd be business development. This is what it's like in the Southern hemisphere to do the same buckets. Exactly. We can open up to South Americans as well. All right. Cool.

(46:46): Cool man. Thanks. Thanks guys. That's a wrap.

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