You're listening to “Financial Advisor Marketing”—the best show on the planet for financial advisors who want to get more clients, without all the stress. You're about to get the real scoop on everything from lead generation to closing the deal.
James is the founder of TheAdvisorCoach.com, where you can find an entire suite of products designed to help financial advisors grow their businesses more rapidly than ever before. Now, here is your host, James Pollard.
James:Financial advisors, welcome back to another episode of the Financial Advisor Marketing podcast. This episode is extra, extra special, because producer Jonathan Rivera, and I got chastised one time because I called him Producer Jonathan, even though that's what everybody seems to call them. He's business-owner Jonathan. He is distribution-expert Jonathan. He is entrepreneur Jonathan.
But we're going to talk about podcasting, content marketing, and distribution. If you're a longtime listener of the show, you will recognize his smooth, velvety voice from earlier episodes, and it's going to be really fun. We're going to talk about financial advisors who want to start podcasts, maybe advisors who have podcasts, how you should think about content marketing, because the man is just . . . that's his whole world and it has been for years, so who better to learn from J.R. himself? [01:17.7]
Welcome back, I should say. And how are you? For people who don't know you, you can introduce yourself. Say whatever you want.
Jonathan: James, I have to tell you that, number one, I’m honored that you invited me on to your show. Thank you for that. It has been a while since we've spoken. But behind the scenes, you're one of the only friends, one of the people that I actually call a friend that I can call and have a conversation with, and that's why I’m a little disappointed about the intro you gave me where you didn't say man of God. Right? Man of God is first. Me and my pillars of purpose are faith, family, fitness, finances, and you and I have a relationship in God, we're brothers and I’ve learned so much from you. So, I want to put that out there, right from the beginning. [02:06.8]
Where have I been? I don't know, you kicked me off the show and I’ve been clawing my way back. Here I am. But I’m glad to be here, brother, and I hope that we can do some good for the financial advisors who are listening today.
James:So, what is the Podcast Factory? Because at the end of every one of my shows, there's a little clip that says, “This is ThePodcastFactory.com,” and a lot of people thought that was my voice. It's not my voice, people. But they ask me, like, What is the Podcast Factory? I'm always like, Go to ThePodcastFactory.com. What is that? I know it’s your company, but what is the process of that?
Jonathan: Let's talk about my life's purpose and I just gave you the pillars, right? And faith was at the very top of that. I have been working through the Bible, working through studies, working through figuring out my purpose on this planet and why God put me here, and it comes down to something very simple that I think everyone here can relate to. [03:04.2]
The right words from the right person at the right time can change your life, and there is no doubt in my mind that people listening to your show have gotten the perspective shift that has changed their whole world. That's just you, your show and your audience. I get to do this over 120 different experts that we have helped launch shows and helped them change the world.
I am living my purpose through sharing the right words from the right people at the right time to change the world, to bring people closer to God, to bring people closer to what they're supposed to be doing. And the vehicle for that is the podcast, but as you know, there's more to it. There's a message. There's a story. There's a purpose. There's how it ties into the cash register, and I think we're going to talk about all of that today. [03:52.8]
James:I think a lot of people when a financial advisors, if you're listening to the show and you're like, I don't want to start a podcast, not starting podcasts, please continue to listen to this episode because it will tie into your content, your personal brand, everything, even with tying your business back to your faith. Obviously, personal branding is huge, and who better to know that than me, James? If you go to the Bible, it's like the servant of Christ. He could have said “brother of Christ.” He could have said “leader of the church in Jerusalem.” He could have said all of those things, but, no, he didn't. He said servant first. That is very profound, very interesting.
One of the things that has come up with podcasting, specifically, sometimes advisors will ask me, “Is podcasting, that arena, oversaturated today?” because it seems like in 2020, especially, people just jumped on the podcasting bandwagon. I tend to tell them no, because I don't think that their messages, the stuff that's going to be saturated, as long as they can tap into that. What are your thoughts on that? If someone's thinking, I don't want to do a podcast because it's too saturated, what would you say? [04:55.5]
Jonathan: Here's where I start talking people out of podcasting. If somebody comes to me and says, “Hey, I want to do a show like Joe Rogan,” I’m like, All right, get out of here, I cannot help you. I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that, and even if I did, I wouldn't share it with you. I'm just kidding. But they have this idea that they're going to build a podcast is the old Field of Dreams, build a podcast and they will come. Nobody's coming. Nobody cares. Nobody's going to listen. That's the honest facts about podcasting.
In fact, if you look at Edison Research Share of Ear, I think the average show gets about 75 to 100 downloads and the average person quits after eight to 10 episodes. Why? Because they can't hack it. They think they're going to be the next Joe Rogan. You're not, and I can't help you with that. But—but—there is a silver lining to this doom and gloom that I’m painting. I can help you be the Joe Rogan to the people that matter to you.
James:Right, absolutely. [05:57.3]
Jonathan: And that's a smaller segment, just like you're not the Joe Rogan for insurance or for real estate guys, but you are quite popular for financial advisors. That is your lane and that's what we have to be looking at. Who are we speaking to, and who are we bringing this message to?
James:Even if it is only 75 to 100, I don't think people truly understand the power of-- Let's just do some quick math. I don't do math in public, so financial advisors who are listening, I’m using my phone right now. This is Episode 237, I believe. Let's say every episode is an average of 20 minutes. Okay, that's 4,740 minutes. Let's divide that by 60 for hours. That means someone can go back and listen to 79 hours of my voice, of us hanging out, sharing information. I'm not really a big fan of hard teaching, but just being friendly and cordial and ranting, and they see the whole spectrum. [06:53.5]
Imagine 100 people out there who have spent 79 hours with you, and that's an asset that lives forever, meaning, if you stop podcasting, for example, you can reuse it. It's still an asset that you own and control. That's how I think about it. But it's an unparalleled medium, in the sense that you can have that 79 hours, and my shows are short. For somebody who has a longer show, it's just so powerful.
Jonathan: When we're thinking, and I’m just going to go back to faith a little bit, the way that we think about time is different than God's time, right? He's at all time, all at once, always there, and we're thinking more like minute by minute, hour by hour, and I feel like the podcasts or any of this content that you create has that godlike power of being everywhere, at all times, available to people. Yes, there's those hardcore listeners who are listening every week when you put out an episode, but then there's new people, like you said, that can come in and dive into that 79 hours. [07:57.4]
Now, you already put that time and you're not putting that time in again, but there it is, that body of work that's there to help convince them, convert them, make them know, like and trust you, and do all that heavy lifting before you get on the phone with them, because that's what I think this, especially for financial advisors or anybody in service, finance, is. This is a high-trust, high-touch type of sale, and it's hard to get on the phone with someone who doesn't know you and is asking silly questions like, “How can you help me?” What you want to do is set it up so that when somebody gets on the phone with you through your content, it’s, “How do we get started? How do we work together?” There's a difference there and I think there's a big power.
Speaking to your point of all these episodes, dude, I did Making Agents Rich was the first show on the Podcast Factory in 2013. That show still gets something like 1,200–1,300 downloads a month. I haven't touched that show in eight years and people still ask me for the products we were selling there and I’m just like, No, sorry, that was a long time ago. [08:59.4]
But if you stay in the same business, if you stay doing the same thing, this can produce ROI for you for years and years and years. That 75 minutes or 79 hours is multiplied by those 75 people, plus, all the other people that come in. It's pretty incredible when you start thinking of it that way.
James:For me, personally, it's pretty cool, because should anything happen to me that my estate will have an income stream because of the intellectual property or whatever. Obviously, financial advisors may not have that necessarily, unless they have different businesses that they talk about on the podcast.
One of the things that I noticed, personally, is a shift started to happen once I hit a couple of dozen episodes, and I know that you mentioned that most people don't get past eight to 10 and a lot of people don't even get past three episodes, but it is really heartbreaking. Let's think about this.
Let's say that you have a half hour show and you start out, and you get frustrated when on the eighth-episode mark. People have only spent four hours with you if that's your only channel. I mean, there have been people who have watched-- I’ve done over a dozen webinars at this point. I don't have that many active. I think I have two active. They've been through all 12 and haven't converted, and that's more than the four hours right there. [10:15.4]
And the podcast, once you get to, let's just say, 50 episodes, at 30 minutes each, that means someone has literally spent more than an entire day straight with you over time. The significance of that can't be overstated. It is so powerful to have someone spend that much time with you, and people give up way, way too early, way, way too early, in my opinion.
Jonathan: Yeah, I have one of our clients, Cover Your Assets is the name of his show. He's an insurance guy. He works with doctors. One of the things that he couldn't believe and, look, it took even him, right, knowing him-- I knew him for six years before he started working with me, by the way, to speak about consistency. You’ve got to keep showing up for these people. Now, he's been with me for two or three years. [11:04.6]
But one of the things that amazes him about having his podcast is the fact that people do spend that time, because he would ask himself, he asked me when he was first starting, he had that imposter syndrome, “Why would anybody want anybody want to hear this? Why would anybody care?” When we just did an analysis of his show, it was the weirdest topics, like policy premiums and policy types that he thinks are boring and he takes for granted, but those are his highest listened-to shows.
Maybe we think some of the stuff is boring or maybe we take it for granted, but there's people out there looking for answers and there's people around you that need answers, and I would say that it's a disservice if you have knowledge, if you have wisdom that can help the people around you, if you're not sharing that, then you're doing these people a disservice. And I think really, I’m going to push it, I’m going to say you're sinning, right? Because God gave us talents. We're not supposed to burry those talents. We're supposed to multiply them, and how do you multiply them? By sharing them. [12:08.4]
James:Absolutely. But what about the people who think, Oh, I’m not sure which day to post. I'm not sure if my episode should be 22 minutes or 27 minutes. I'm not sure if my cover art should have this hex code for color or not, where they get bogged down in the details, and that tends to be a large part of my audience.
What's interesting is my personality type is INTJ and it is the architect on 16Personalities.com, very analytical, very rational. Low in agreeableness, shocker. But very abrupt, brusque, but also very cold, calculating, methodical, like can get stuff done. So, that's me. For better or worse, I have attracted a lot of people like that.
One of the downsides to having a bunch of people like that in your world is they ask questions like that, and I’m so far past that that it's hard for me to get that beginner's mind again. What do you tell people when they get into the nitty-gritty details like that? [13:05.3]
Jonathan: Yeah, I mean, we do have formulas for this. I mean, we've done it enough times where we know certain things work, and when we're thinking about what day to post—Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday? Yes.
James:Yeah, all good.
Jonathan: Post on the same day, every week. That's the ticket, right? The consistency of showing up so your people know, and I think you remember this from the Ben Settle days, we were one of the few shows that posted on a Sunday and everybody was like, Sunday? That's weird. Hey, I walk my dog, I go to the gym, I do whatever, because this is what day the show comes out and I plan my day around it, and that kind of consistency pays off over time.
When we're thinking about length of show, the way that we discuss it is single-serving episodes, and what that means is where do people listen to podcasts? You can look this up. Like I said, Edison’s Share of Ear, and there's multiple studies on how people listen, riding the bike, going to the gym, washing the dishes, in the line to drop off the kids at school. I mean, it's pretty specific and I’ve heard this before. They listen at the same time all the time and you want a single-serving episode, because what that does is it allows them to consume the entire episode when they're doing whatever they're doing. [14:21.5]
And why do you want them to consume that entire episode? A couple reasons. Number one, Google is watching. iTunes is watching. Everybody's watching to see how long people listen, and if people drop off 50 percent of your show, they give you less push in the algorithm. Now, if people listen to your complete show, they boost you in the algorithm in Search, and so a single-serving episode that's 12, 15 minutes, under 20 minutes, gets consumed all the way, boosts you in the algorithm. That's number one.
Number two is this thing that we call keep them wanting more, and it's quite simply this. Why are we doing this podcast? I mean, we're doing the podcast for another purpose. Yes, we're being helpful. Yes, we're servants. Yes, we want to share information and it helps us learn the information more. But let's be honest, we want that cash register to ring. [15:16.8]
Whether it's sales calls, whether it's selling products, whether it's booking appointments, you have a call to action. I mean, if you're doing it right, if you're doing it at the Podcast Factory where you have a call to action, and the only way to get them to that call to action is to keep them wanting more.
So, keep the episode short. Give them that perspective shift and that person now has a choice. Listen to more episodes so they continue staying in motion and selling themselves, or take the off ramp to buy your product or book an appointment, get on a call with you, because the podcast is just a tool and this is where a lot of people get confused, “I want to monetize my podcast.” No, not going to happen. If you have a business, I can show you how to boost your business using the podcast as a tool or fuel for that business, but you have to be strategic about the way that you're using it. [16:04.4]
James:Yeah, everything in marketing is a tool, or at least it should be viewed that way. I had one of my Inner Circle members reach out to me this morning. Her situation was that she had a PDF guide that she's using as a lead magnet to get more people to opt in to her email list, something that I’ve done hundreds of times before with different advisors.
When she contacted me, I think it was a month ago, she had the title page, the cover. Then she had the tips, tips, tips, like all the information and the, quote-unquote, “value” of it. Then at the very last page, she had “About the Author” and then about her and her business, and then a call to action.
I was like, move that to the front, have about you at the second page and make it about you, not your business, meaning, you, your personality, who you really are with a call to action. Then sprinkle calls to action throughout the actual PDF or links. She had something about certain retirement planning, but she also talks about that on LinkedIn a lot. I was like, link to your post in the PDF. That way people go to LinkedIn. Then at the very end, I said to put in about your business with another call to action. Conversions skyrocketed. [17:12.6]
I imagine that people do the same thing with their podcast, meaning, I’ve had people ask me, not to talk about the Financial Advisor Marketing show, but they're like, Why do you have a mid-roll in every single [episode]? They don't call it a mid-roll, but they're like, Why do you have an advertisement? I say, “Because it works.” That's really all it is, because you wouldn't really know about it if it wasn't there. It's so simple, it should be obvious, and I think more financial advisors should realize that. Just ask for the appointment or say “if you happen to be interested, give my office a call at 555-5555, so it’s simple.
Jonathan: stop. Man, put it. The best marketers, I think, are people who, yeah, I’ve got a 100-page e-book, you can opt in or buy it for low cost, whatever. Why have I written this e-book? To give you all the information you need, and if you need more, book a call or hire us to help you. I like that thing right up at the top. I like to know what I’m dealing with, and I think that's brilliant advice that you just gave away and maybe you shouldn't have done that. You gave away too much. But people won't do it. People are not going to do it. [18:16.6]
James:Right.
Jonathan: But I agree with you. That call to action needs to be upfront or a disclaimer, “Hey, I’m writing this because I want you to book a call with me,” so just frame it. Frame it right in the beginning, “Hey, I’m here to help you, but this is what I’m looking for, and if you don't like it, you can bounce off. But, yeah, I’m not going to get 10 pages deep if you're not that interesting.” You may as well have that CTA at the top, in the middle and everywhere else.
I like how you said that you loop it back into social media as well, because let them go get some social proof, see you interacting. Let them get some dimension to who you are. I like doing that, too, sharing my content and putting it in different social places off those opt-ins so they can get some texture. I put them on IG. I put them on LinkedIn. I put them wherever, but I keep them in my ecosystem and I think that's brilliant, and that that gives you another contact point with that person. [19:03.1]
James:Yeah, and that's one of the things that I have gotten known for among financial advisors as the multiple marketing strategies kind of thing, and I caution advisors against having just a podcast. Now, I would caution them against having just LinkedIn or just email, or just a seminar process. When someone comes to you, I know that you and I both know that having additional assets, having additional marketing is incredibly important. How do you tell people about that? When you tell them, “Look, we're starting this podcast, but you need to have something else,” how does that conversation go?
Jonathan: A lot of times, if they're relying solely on the podcast, I’m going to talk them out of it because I think that there's much better, much easier ways, like email and simple things like that. What I’ve found more often with the people that we're working with these days is their marketing is disjointed. “I have a look.” “Oh, I post on social media.” “Yeah, I have an email list, but I don't email.” None of these pieces are working together. [20:07.9]
I think, Gosh, how's this working for you? I always get the same answer, “Not too long.” I'm like, Yeah, I can see, and I start dissecting how all the pieces are disjointed. This is something that, like you said, you're great at and I’ve learned a lot from you as well, watching you work, but that's these things that are meant to work together, so if it's a podcast alone, it's hard, man.
Even I had some clients come to me and I sold them the package, real estate guys that are moving into the real estate training space, and then when I got on there with them, I’m like, I don't know, man. I think you guys really need to sell more of this product here before we do the podcast and get some feedback from your market. Actually pull them back out of the podcast, put them into a product launch, and then tell them, once we get the feedback from these people, then we can do the podcast content.
They were grateful. They said, “We thought we were coming for a podcast, but you gave us business consulting,” and that's what I look at. I’m not trying to work with somebody who wants to have a podcast for a podcast’s sake. I’m trying to work with somebody who has a business or has assets and who could use a little kick in the butt to bring all that stuff together to make it work for them. [21:17.0]
James:Totally.
Hey, financial advisors. If you'd like even more help building your business, I invite you to subscribe to James' monthly paper-and-ink newsletter, “The James Pollard Inner Circle”. When you join today, you'll get more than $1,000 worth of bonuses, including exclusive interviews that aren't available anywhere else. Head on over to TheAdvisorCoach.com/coaching to learn more.
James:One of the things that I’ve noticed about financial advisor marketing is, and, again, there's that archetype personality and this might sound a little arrogant, but I can make a lot of financial advisors have their marketing work a lot better. It's not necessarily that I’m exceptionally, exceptionally gifted at anything that I do. It's not that I’m really creative. One of my secrets is that just our margins are so high and they make so much money. [22:10.8]
In one of the newsletter issues that I had, I wrote about Nike. I’ll ask you. Nike sells a pair of shoes, I think the average ticket price is $110. What do you think is the dollar amount of profit that Nike makes on that $110 sale?
Jonathan: Including marketing and everything?
James: Yes.
Jonathan: They can't be making much.
James: What is left over for them?
Jonathan: They might be making 10 bucks.
James:It is 10. Oh my God, it is 10 bucks. Holy moly. All right, that is so cool. So, that's the thing, $10. $10 for shoes. Now, I understand people buy five, six, seven, but that's still less than 100 bucks. What is the lifetime value?
But then when you talk to a financial advisor and I’m like, How much do you charge? and even if they say $2,500 for a one-time plan, if someone literally never worked with you ever again and that's the only thing they ever get from you, okay, why can't you spend $1,000 to acquire that client and make 1,500 bucks? “Oh, I’ve got to keep the money.” [23:08.0]
Then raise your prices. Raise your prices. If it is now $3,500 and it takes you 1,500 bucks, then you're still going to get the $2,000. It is just getting them over that fear hump. They can't get it through their mind. Yes, podcasting for a service can be expensive. Yes, online ads can be expensive. Yes, hiring people to do certain things can be expensive. But I wish financial advisors got this. They are making so much money per client compared to other businesses.
I understand that two grand or three grand is really not that much money. I understand that. However, compared to restaurants, compared to shoes, compared to airlines, compared to even hotels, essentially, they're making so much, but they're advertising so little, because they're afraid. I think people could benefit, just financial advisors, for sure, could benefit from just realizing how much money is at the end of the rainbow there. [24:01.4]
Jonathan: I think it's a matter of how you look at this, because what you're explaining to me sounds like, number one, a scarcity mindset, “There's only so much,” and I’m coming from abundance. I think there's a limitless supply out there and I just need to tap into it where I can. But there's the other part of that. It’s a business mindset. They're thinking like mom and pop and “This is all the money I’m going to make and this is all I’ve got.”
What we really need to be looking at, if you don't know your numbers, shame on you. Shame on you, because I can tell you our numbers, cost of goods sold, average client value, what we're doing to bring up client value. If you don't know those things and you don't have a grip on that, you're not running a business. You’ve got maybe a hobby, at best. Maybe that's rude, I don't know, but come on, we're businesspeople, we’ve got to know our numbers. And, yes, you have to be able to spend to get customers. [24:55.6]
Not only that, but here's the other one where I think people fall flat all the time. Yes, it costs you money to get a customer. What does it cost you to keep one? How do you keep people buying from you more and more? That's where I think people really cheap out. It’s like you can't send your guy a gift? You can’t do a little special here or there, do something to let your people know you appreciate them? I think there's infinitely more value right there in taking care of your customers and spending on the people you already have, and I don't hear anybody talking about that.
James:I could definitely benefit from that. I was going through some numbers of people who have been through my business but haven't committed for the long term, and it's a lot. It's a lot for any business. But me just thinking, I know that a hundred percent conversion rate is unrealistic, but I just started thinking, Wow, a lot of people have been through the Advisor Coach in a certain way, shape or form, whether it's email, podcasts. It's a lot of people and I know I can help them and I believe it deep down. It's not even believe. It's that I know, rock solid, for sure, guaranteed, no questions asked. And it sucks. [25:59.0]
But, I mean, it is what it is. You do have to know your numbers. I do think a lot of people are in a scarcity mindset. They really should get out of it. And it might hurt some people to wake up and realize maybe you do have a hobby. It may be a high-paying hobby relative to a cubicle job. You may make $200,000 or $300,000. But it really is a hobby that's dependent on you and you don't really have any assets.
One of the things, and I hate to pivot like this, it's a bad host style, but I really want to pick apart the idea of content distribution because I think that's something where you shine. I have been privy to private meetings that we've had back in the day at the Podcast Factory where you shared this stuff that you share with your team and it's legitimately mind blowing, and you actually do care about your team. People can pick up on that where you will bring in experts, who by themselves would cost an arm and a leg, because you want to improve yourself and you want to improve your team.
But I’ve seen some of these things that you put together for content distribution for your team and it's next level. It's like on another planet. What are some tips or some advice that you can offer people to become better at distributing content? [27:08.8]
Jonathan: Oh, man, that's such a good one, and thank you for the compliment. I always think that we could be better and we're always trying to improve, and that's our nature here at our company. I really think it's going to be much simpler than you want to believe and the best thing that you can do is write down a plan and then execute that plan, and I know it sounds so silly, but all we ever do here is “Hey, we need this result. What are the steps to get this result? And now how do we continually get this result?”
It's quite simply having an SOP and having somebody to do the work, and I think that's where we go back to the hobby. “Oh, I was marketing, marketing, marketing. Then I got a client. Then I got two clients and I’m fulfilling, fulfilling, fulfilling. Ah, fulfilled. Oh, crap, I have no clients,” and now I go prospect. That's because there's no system in place. [28:11.7]
I think the best thing that you can do for yourself is write, and it doesn't have to be robust. It's like, “Make video. Post video on these three spots on these days. Rinse, repeat. Send email about video.” That's the linking that we're talking about, because people think that their posts on social media can't be an email that they send. I disagree. People think that their podcast is separate from their social or whatever it is. All these pieces need to fit together and feed each other, and that's what I say.
Just first start with the first one, whether “Write an email every Tuesday. Send out. Now make a video every Wednesday. Send out.” This is so simple and that's why you're going to overlook it, because what happens is the “experts” out there want to make it complicated. It's not complicated. [29:05.0]
Know your market. Know what they need. Give them a new perspective on what they need, and this is any content. It doesn't have to be a podcast. Give them a new perspective on what they need and make sure that you deliver to them regularly. It's so simple. But it's something that gets complicated because people need to sell you the next course. Hopefully, I didn't oversimplify that, Jimmy, but that's what we do, isn't it? We make content and put it out there.
James:Yeah, it just takes time and it takes effort.
Jonathan: Then you stack, right? Because you'd have the email plan and the video plan, and you start stacking, and then you get somebody to execute that stuff versus you. Then if you have everything in place, you have somebody do it for you.
James:Yeah, and there are certain financial advisors who, shame on them, make a living by making things more complicated where there have a bunch of different funds and ETFs that overlap and it doesn't need to be that complicated, but they make it because they think, and I want to be careful to say that they think it provides them a job and people are buying different things. [30:03.6]
I want to highlight, one of the things that you shared was having the operating procedure, just having a system like “if this, then that,” and that's incredibly important and just having rules. I did a consultation with an advisor about two or three weeks ago. I rarely do these because I price it high enough to where I don't get enough. I really don't want to do them, but if somebody comes in, that's my “force me to help you” price and I will gladly take the money.
But the thing was we went through, and he was one of those people again, INTJ, I’m pretty sure, who was like, Okay, I know that I’m going to have 30 minutes, so I'm going to walk through this entire thing. I have XYZ and I just want to improve all of them. I was like, How often are you posting? He was like, I’m posting every business day. How often are you sending your emails? He's like, I do weekly, but I follow your appointments on autopilot system. I have the autoresponder for daily. [30:54.5]
He was doing all this stuff and, I mean, in a nutshell, this guy was a beast as far as implementation. That's that architect, again, he was getting it done. But I was like, Have you ever tested anything? He said, “No.” I said, “You have an autoresponder and you haven't tested a single subject line or message. Let's start there. You haven't tested your LinkedIn content at all. You haven't tested this LinkedIn message. You sent out”--
He was bragging about his direct mail piece, and it was an awesome mail piece, by the way. It was obvious that he had read Eugene Schwartz and Dan Kennedy. It was obvious that he was in that world, so it was good. But he had never tested it. He never had any idea that a certain direct mail style or approach or headline could possibly work better, and I suggested that to him. I imagine he's getting better results now because, I mean, you just test and figure out what works and what doesn't. [31:48.2]
The reason I bring that up is because I, personally, have done a lot of testing of style on the podcast over the years, and it's crazy to think that it has been years, but it has, more informational, more entertaining, more story-based, more angry, more calm. I've methodically done all of this. It may seem weird to people who are listening, but this is an experimental venture for me. Are there any types of styles that you personally think work very well on a podcast?
Jonathan: I'm going to switch it up on you, because I just had this conversation we're doing. You and I, I think, have a call and a couple of weeks, quarter focus or call. I've been doing these calls and I’ve been-- the team, I’m not going to take credit for their work. The team has put together data on everybody’s shows, and I help analyze and interpret that data, and I had one of our clients who is one of the bigger shows, big downloads, and this person, what was so interesting is that we've segmented everything out into about four topics.
We kind of tried to generalize, “Here are the four topics that you're talking about consistently. Here's what's hitting and here's what's doing best,” and this person had four topics that were all within 10 downloads of each other and this is big downloads that they have comparatively to most of the shows. [33:10.8]
When I asked him, “What do you think? What do you think about this data here?” the person tells me, “Oh, that means I know my audience well,” and I applaud that. I applaud that confidence. But I’m here to give you some perspective and what I told this person was, “What I see here is that you're not taking enough risk?”
James:That's why I told the guy, the advisor, so we had a similar . . . yeah. What do you say to that?
Jonathan: Enough risk, right, try something different. They were pushing back on me. “What do you mean? How does that work?” I said, “These topics are great and they're hitting. Everybody listens, you already know that. But what if you did something totally different?”
Then we went through their data and we found one thing that they did different, and it was actually rated pretty high. It was a four-part series, and we had 200 shows in there, and out of everything, this was rated high across the board without any real thought. I said, “Look, that's a risk because these are doing 10–20% better than your average. Did you notice that? Because you took a risk.” [34:09.4]
I’m translating what you said, to take a risk once in a while, try something different. Get out of your comfort zone, because being comfortable is not going to help you grow. I'm in agreement with you that you have to test or you have to try things that make you a little uncomfortable.
James:So, the series did well?
Jonathan: Yeah, the topic was financial and this person doesn't talk about financial, but that series, it was a four-part series and it was ranked among the top interviews and everything, and when they looked at it they were like, Oh. I’m like, That's what I’m talking about. You want to grow your show. We have to take risks once in a while, not talk about the same topics that you know are getting downloads, because that's not going to give you that exponential jump you're looking for.
James:That is actually very interesting, because I’ve done a couple of series and they do well as well, but it's not no generally the style. I will admit, so this episode has not come out yet, but I have recorded an episode. I know we're running up on time here. I'll be respectful of your time. I appreciate you giving it to me today. [35:11.2]
There's an episode that I’ve recorded called “My Advice for Weak Financial Advisors” and it will probably be my most controversial episode, because I’m starting to get more irritable and I’m starting to get more not angry, but just grouchy, because I’m just so sick and tired of the excuses. I'm so sick and tired of the victim mentality. I don't want to hear it.
In the episode I talk about, and when people are listening to this, the episode is already out. I've decided that I’m not going to delete it. So what? People won’t like it. What else is new? I bring up that my grandfather had 10 kids, had a business, worked a job, still got to see his kids, they practically worshiped him. He didn't say any of this stuff like, Oh, it's so hard to raise a family, and so on and so forth.
I’ve had uncles who served in Vietnam and saw stuff that you wouldn't even believe where they're walking in the jungle and then someone in front of them, boom, goes down into the stick and gets impaled and he’s dead immediately. One of the uncles became a prison guard. [36:10.0]
I grew up on a farm. People who listen to the podcast know that. I had another uncle who saved me from being gored to death. If you think you're having a bad day, imagine a bull charging at you and the horn about to go into your body and impale you. A lot of impaling stuff. But it's like people freak out if the Starbucks barista misspells their name, okay? And I’m just so sick of it.
I'm bringing this up because what would you tell me to embrace that to push the envelope a little bit more? Do you think that's a good idea for me to do these controversial episodes, where I’m just like, I’m sick of it, like putting a stake in the ground? Is that a good idea or am I ruining my brand?
Jonathan: The thing is I think it's a matter of perspective, and I think because you and I are quite alike, I hear you saying you love these people and you want to help them. [37:01.2]
James:Yeah.
Jonathan: Sometimes, you’ve got to be tough. Sometimes you’ve got to be tough to get attention. To me, like we have a friend right now who is more Cupcake’s friend than my friend, but we see this person saying one thing and doing another around fitness and around finances and that kind of stuff, and Cupcake is like, Ah, and look the other way.
I’m like, if it were me, I would sit this person down, show them what they're saying and what they're doing and ask them why, and not from a place of grouchiness, but a place of love and caring, like, You say you want better. I have the answer to help you do better. Do you really want it? I don't think it's a bad thing, but maybe that's because we're alike, so I might be the wrong person to ask about that.
James:It'll be interesting to see what happens when the episode comes out. I always get the nasty grams or whatever whenever I put a mirror in front of people and they see themselves. It's just frustrating. [38:04.2]
I mean, I was talking to another business owner. This is a guy who is in marketing. I was talking to him the other day, and he has an offer where people can try out a subscription service for $1, $1, and they get 30 days to see if they like it and, if they cancel, then never get billed again. This is literally I’m talking $1, 100 pennies, just so nobody mishears me. Then he got an email from somebody who had been on his email list for I don't know how long, it was a long time, and he said, “I’m getting ready to take the plunge.”
Jonathan: Plunge?
James:Take the plunge? I would start throwing stuff. What are you talking about? The plunge? It's $1. It's $1. Stuff like that just burns me up and I see it all the time with advisors. Nobody has ever told me they're about to take the plunge with the newsletter, but sometimes I’m just thinking to myself, it's $99 a month for my newsletters, specifically. It's like $3.26 per day. You have enormous margins. You say you're serious. [39:02.0]
Now, this is obviously not everyone, but there are certain people, if you have a big enough audience, so there's always going to be people like this where they just think so small. What advice do you have for me to stop being so angry or grouchy?
Jonathan: I don't want you to stop being you, brother. You're amazing just the way you are. But I feel like that's a blessing. That person taking the plunge, I feel like they're telling you, “I am not going to be a good customer. I'm not going to be a good client. I'm letting you know ahead of time.” Thanks. Thanks for the heads up.
We see this all the time. We have real estate rentals and when people act funky about a $35 or $50 app fee, we go, “Hmm, you're not serious. We have a limited amount of space here. We're good. You keep your app fee. We’ll go again, someone else behind you that wants this place more.” So, I don't think it's a matter of that, man. I think you want to sound gruff, but I think you just care and I think you want to help people, and I think that those are great things to hear. [40:05.7]
I remember one time we used to charge before I’d get on the phone with somebody $100 just to get on the call to apply to work with us and somebody said that I have an email my autoresponder about plunking down, and I felt bad now when you told that story, plunking down $100. And I’m like, Plunking down $100? That doesn't even make a little pin sound when it hits $100.
But I think those are great warning signs for people and I think you know that. You've been doing this long enough. You know exactly when you see that little scarcity mindset, that small thinking. You're saving yourself the trouble of dealing with these people. Let them go do their thing somewhere else with somebody else, and I’m going to continue being me and you continue being you.
James:Yeah, it's just frustrating when I’m the bad guy because I say this or I blacklist them. But, oh, well, that's a story for another day.
Jonathan: They earned it.
James:That's a story for another podcast.
Jonathan: You’ve earned their spot, bro. Come on. “Here, you earned it. Here's your blacklist. You're welcome.” [41:02.3]
James:Yeah. If somebody is listening to this episode and, for some strange reason, they think, Gosh, I’d really like to start a podcast, I’d really like to be a member of the Podcast Factory, what do they need to do?
Jonathan: There's a couple things that I’ll share here and we started talking about my mission, the right words from the right person at the right time can change your life, and that is my business. It’s changing lives through the right words and the right people, and if you need some inspiration, motivation, if you need a new perspective, I say go to ThePodcastFactory.com and check out our Client Showcase where there are shows like Jimmy’s show and several other awesome experts. I think there's about 90 of them on there that have uplifting messages. So, if you just need something good in your life, we have it at the Podcast Factory. [41:54.7]
Now, the other side of that is, if you have a message, a mission, a purpose, and you want to connect to more people and bring them into that mission, we can help with that. We help Jimmy. We help plenty of experts. At this time, it's about 117, 121, I don't remember, launched podcasts to eager listeners, and it's the same thing, ThePodcastFactory.com, and look for the “Book a Call” and we can rap, and I can tell you whether I think it will or won't work for you, and I will be one hundred percent honest because I don't need your money.
James:Oh, yeah, that unlocks a whole new level, because there was a period around 2019–2020 where my personal money situation, I guess, was just where I was like, This is kind of cool, thanks to the Covid crash and I went hard during that, so that was nice. Now, I’m nowhere near my potential, nowhere near, not even close. I don't think I’m at 1% of my potential and I hate it sometimes, but other times I love it because I love the challenge.
But financial advisors, I want you to hear my voice and once you listen. If you're thinking about starting a podcast, I want you to take to heart the information that I shared with you about how your margins are typically higher, much higher. Even if you think they're lower, they're much higher than other industries. Your lifetime value is typically in the thousands ad infinitum, easily in the tens of thousands for a lot of you. Some of you listening, I know for a fact that can get in the hundreds of thousands because you're talking decades. [43:14.4]
That is like for you to do a podcast and create a relationship with people, even if you only get an extra, let's just say, two clients in an entire year, it could be worth it, and then it still continues to work for you. The advice that I will give you—and I may be completely wrong on this because I am not the podcasting expert. I’m merely an expert who does podcasts—I would not start a podcast unless you know in your heart that you are going to commit to it.
I like to say 100 episodes because I have that mentality of just 100, because if you aim for the stars, you'll land on the moon or something like that, and I feel like that will get you there, because once you start seeing the results and once you start seeing the number go up, if you're motivated by that, then you will keep going. But I would not start and think that you're going to have, essentially, overnight success even by episode 10. I hope I didn't turn people off, but that would be my take on it. [44:12.2]
Jonathan: Man, Jimmy, thank you for allowing me to be here with you. Thank you for this time. And thank you for your friendship and guidance, brother. I appreciate you greatly.
James:All right, thank you so much. I appreciate you and Podcast Factory, and your team and Cupcake. The list goes on and on. But that is a wrap. It's been an awesome episode. I'm glad to have you back for this episode to talk about podcasting and content marketing. And, financial advisors, I will catch you next week. [44:40.5]
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