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In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • The only missing ingredient standing between making more money than you ever dreamed of (8:44)
  • 3 reasons why wholesaling will eat all your profits (and what investments you should make instead) (13:49)
  • How to leverage historic low interest rates to easily get private money for your real estate investments (17:09)
  • The “Whack-a-mole” business model that prevents you from killing your business when the market changes (23:47)

Hey! Want to do a deal? Need my help? No cash to make an offer? Send me a quick text at 440-389-3883 or shoot me an email at REbroker216@gmail.com and we’ll work together to get you the deal.

Read Full Transcript

Welcome to Cleveland Real Estate Investor. On this podcast, you'll hear about every aspect of the real estate investment business. You will talk to your rockstar investors about their businesses, how they built them, where they came from, and where they're going. Who am I? I'm Joe Lieber and I've made millions of dollars from the real estate investment business over the last 20 years. If you're ready to hear the good and bad from a guy who's learned this business from the school of hard knocks and get educated by some bad ass entrepreneurs, then put your helmet on, strap on your chin strap. Let's ride.

(00:54): Hey, what's up guys. I've got a good interview for you today. And I want to do a little intro here before we jump right into the interview. So there's a guy that I know from my masterminds, the same as Greg Halbeck and he lives out in the San Diego area. And he, as soon a lot of cool stuff in real estate, he's working Southern California market is doing some Phoenix. He's doing a lot of virtual wholesaling to a lot of different things, cooking for him, young dude, trying to make his Mark. And I wonder, have a nice interview with him today. Nothing like scripted. It's just kind of like off the cuff and there'll be some nuggets in there, you know, hopefully you listen today and just grab nuggets. So that was the whole point of like the format of this. I was kind of just kind of doing like, almost like talk show style where we're just having a conversation almost like we're like just sitting and having a cup of coffee and having a normal conversation, but it's being recorded so hope you enjoy it. And I must have you jumped right in. Thanks. So what's up, man? Thanks for coming on my show today. I really appreciate ya. Good chance to get to meet you and all that good stuff too.

(01:57): Yeah, for sure, man. I'm, I'm happy to be a guest. I appreciate you having me come on.

(02:01): Sure. Cool. We're just gonna have a conversation today and people can just learn stuff and not everybody gets that, you know, have these conversations, you know, like high level just behind the scenes where it's not like it's no scripted here. I mean, we haven't even officially met yet, so it's just kinda like get to know each other and there's going to be great takeaways. Cause that's just what happens when great people get together, you know?

(02:23): Absolutely. Man, it's almost like we're going to have a cup of coffee, but we happen to not live in the same area. So we figured we'd do it virtually.

(02:29): Exactly. Exactly. All right. So I've got a question for you. My first question, dude, like I'm a big Darren Hardy fan. I love Darren Hardy. I had a chance to meet him when I was in San Diego. I'm in collective genius. Are you in collective genius by chance? I'm not collective genius. I'm an investor fuel and multipliers. Okay. So I'm in fuel too. So I met Darren though and you know, he's awesome. I was like Darren Hardy. I think he's freaking great. I watch his daily mentoring sessions and I'm going to do more stuff with them. A couple of the guys in a couple of masterminds, I'm hired him for mentorship. So like no kidding. Yeah. They hired him and he's expensive, dude. It's no joke. But a few of the guys, you know, went through the process with them and they really enjoy him. Here's my question. I got to see if you know the answer to this dude. Like this is Ben. I've thought about this for like two years less. I met Darren Hardy when I was in San Diego. After he spoke, I was in the Hoya has one for Walker.

(03:23): Okay. I used to live there. I just moved. You just moved to LA Jolla. Well, I've just moved from the LA Jolla area up to Encinitas. Dan. Hardy's my neighbor. Just, I was going to, I didn't want to be a yeah,

(03:33): No, that's why I'm asking you this because I saw your Facebook post. And you said Darren Hardy lives really, really close to you.

(03:38): Like stupid close. Like I run by his house usually a few times a week. Cause it's right down the road. Yeah.

(03:42): This is how stupid I got to know that too. Like

(03:46): You can't even see it. Like I can see the roof and like the range Rover in the driveway, but like the actual like property itself, I can only see it if I go on street view because he's got such a long driveway with this big gate. So it's a serious property from what I can tell.

(04:02): Is it on the water? It's not on the

(04:04): No it's so I live on the Walnut one and then Darren Hardy lives off of one of the roads that are above the one-on-one. So it's probably like maybe a seven minute walk in the water from his house. My house is like five minutes. Cause it's a little bit more towards the water, but his is in a nicer area.

(04:24): Oh, that's so awesome, man. All right. So here's the question. So, you know, Darren Hardy very polished dude always represents himself well to the nines. So I go for a walk around the hotel after I saw Darren speak and he was still inside, you know? And there were two cars in the lot under like the guests lot. There were two, there was an S 600 Mercedes-Benz white. Okay. And there was a red four, five, eight Ferrari Italia. I always want to know which one was Darren Hardy's you have any idea? Oh, like question question. Like which one was this

(05:03): Ladies, bro? I think it's the Mercedes Ferrari. He doesn't seem like a Ferrari guy to me. I don't know. He just seems more of like a fancy Mercedes, maybe rolls Royce kind of guy versus Lamborghini, Ferrari Austin, Martin. You know what I'm saying? Like smooth and old school, I guess, versus like that flashy, like I got a Ferrari that's red and you know, so I would choose the Benz for sure. If I had to guess.

(05:29): All right. Just curious, man. Just I like him so much. I just, I just had to know, you know, I thought you would know living close to him.

(05:35): It's funny. When I first started getting into his stuff a couple of years ago, I didn't live in San Diego and he always said he lived in like San Diego and I'm like, well, San Diego is obviously huge. I'm like, what the hell is this got live? And I just did like true people search. Cause it's not like he's like some stainless celebrities. It's a random dude. So I typed in like Darren Hardy and it said like Cardiff by the sea. And I'm like, Oh my God, that's where I moved. Like I like, that's where I basically live now in that status. And I'm like, where's this guy's house. So I ended up like finding, you know, through my real estate investing skills. I'm able to find out where he lives and yeah, he lives right down the road from me. It's so funny.

(06:07): And I was like, Oh my God, like, that's literally like basically my neighbor and man, his stuff is so good. Like that book, the compound effect really got me going like that book. I still like follow that book. Cause I start new stuff all the time and you know, it's hard to get momentum, your habits and all that. And like that book is just, it's like recommended reading. It's like the modern day thinking grow rich. Because if you just like implement that book, like every day, like you can freaking wind man. Like that book is powerful.

(06:34): It's extremely powerful. I spent a lot of time with that one. I did it. I listened to his entrepreneur rollercoaster,

(06:41): The audio book, man. I listened to that thing so many times,

(06:44): Dude, the guy's good man. Like he is good. I'm going to do something with him. Maybe. I don't know. Next year I spent a lot of money on masterminds and education every year, but I'm going to do something with him. So I heard, I don't know. I heard his mastermind. I guess you call it a master. I guess he has a mastermind, but it's like 50 grand a year. It's definitely on the higher side of things. And you've got to like before I joined Darren Hardy, like I want to make sure I'm polished a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Like, dude, I feel like I'm retailing houses. I'm selling some turnkey. I got some rentals. Like, you know, dude, like I do a little bit of wholesaling, very little and you know, I don't want to go there, like the hot mess that I feel like I am, you know, if I was like, dude, I want buyers or I want sellers or I got systems and processes dialed in. I think I got a lot more out of it, you know?

(07:33): Yeah. He was actually, it's funny you say that. Cause he was in real estate, like back in the day he was an Asian, I think he's always kind of like he's done like real estate and technology and he's done a lot of different companies and stuff. So I think, I mean, if he found out how many rentals you own, I think he'd be embarrassed too. I mean, dude. Well, I'm excited to have you on my show and a little bit, but I think, you know, I know you're a very humble man, but dude, you're very impressive. So I think you'll fit in real well there, I it's, it's interesting. I don't know what his like I think it's called as like high performance group or whatever it's called, but cause I don't know his value. I know like I bought his info product, the same productivity and then I you know, I think that's, I've spent, I was like a thousand bucks.

(08:11): So I know he has that high performance form. I think he's a big believer on focus, man. Like if you see Darren Hardy, like he is not a podcast guest on people's shows, he practices what he preaches, man. He's very focused. He's very disciplined. He doesn't like deviate and I think that's why he's so dang successful. Cause he knows what he, he knows his values and he operates by his values. He doesn't just go out and spread his cast, his net all over the place. He's very focused and targeted. And I think that's why he's very magnetic to a lot of people like you and I

(08:40): To that is that right there. You gave away a great nugget there and I want to slow it down for the listeners to really dial in on that. He is laser beam focused. When you start looking, at least I did this probably a couple of months ago, when, what I really in a day, what are the activities I am doing to drive income? And you start saying, Holy crap, dude, no wonder why I'm not making the money I want to make or no wonder why I can't hit that number or that number. Give you an example of stupid stuff. Like you just, I don't know how to stand up for this stuff. You know, my brother loved my brother, good dude. He works in law enforcement, blah, blah, blah. And you know, he like, everybody wants a little extra in life, right? So a couple of years ago I'm like, dude, you got a little money.

(09:26): Let's go get you a couple of rentals. So I do. I hook them up. Guess what? All the crap falls on, falls on uncle Joe over here, whether it's needing a contractor, we have an eviction, we have to do a fix up a turnaround. Like it all fell on me. And then I don't don't charge them. I don't charge them for property management. I don't upsell the invoicing. I didn't even charge him for acquisition. And really, it just, it takes money out of my pocket. And then you start looking, I love ms. Our brother, I'm going to do it. Don't get me wrong. But there's other things too, I've done right over the years. And you start looking at exactly what you do in a day. Oh yeah. It's

(10:04): Airy, man. It's so scary that I like, I like how we're kind of like focused on this right now because like that, that idea of income producing activities that are driving you towards your objective, it is so hard to stay on track with those things. And the best part about that is when you can like, and it's hard for me. I'm sure it's hard for you. It's just talk to you in general when you can actually just focus on like a couple hours a day of those things. Like it doesn't need to be 12 hours a day, but if you can laser in on those things, I mean, you don't feel, I don't feel guilty going to the beach at two o'clock and thinking like having my thinking time, you know? Cause I got my stuff when I do it, but when I don't do it, I get all pissy, you know?

(10:38): Yeah. Man, in this day and age with the right systems and processes, like you can just be so productive. It's crazy like to take Hamill's look I'm 41 years old. Not that old, but I can barely send an email. I kind of feel like I missed that. Like super tech savvy kids, you know, are like 30. Yeah. Probably like you're young guy. You get the technology part. I really don't. And I feel like with even like something stupid, like constant contact, I just got this recently.

(11:05): I don't like that one. I like active campaign constantly.

(11:09): I don't know, dude, to me, it's like gold. I'm like, Holy cow, I can touch all these people and they're going to call me and respond to me. And it's just the concept of it's so funny. Cause you see how I still kind of do this business very antiquated. But then I look at it and see how powerful it really is. And I'll buy one thing. There's some things though that you millennial kids probably like the text message and all that stuff. But the personal touch dude, when I go out, if I go out and see a property or something like it's hard to beat me to table, you know?

(11:40): Oh I bet dude, because the face-to-face relationship selling man, that's where it's at man. And that's what I always say. I do a lot of virtual stuff and I still do business in my market, San Diego, but, and I'm transparent about virtual. I'm like, dude, if you're in the market competing as the virtual guy, you're going to freaking lose. Like if you're face-to-face with a seller with Sally home seller and whatever buyer, that relationship is where the deals happen. It's not from blasting out a bunch of RBMs like, yeah, that works because of math, but it's not, you probably can't get as deep of a discount too, unless you're billing because I've gotten some stupid deals. Face-to-face man we're like own away. And if I do it on a phone, it wouldn't have been the possible that cause I'm sure. You know.

(12:23): So you have this company velocity home buyers. Yes. Yes. But what do you do? Tell me what you do.

(12:27): So dude, I used to straight up wholesale until I realized that was a terrible idea. So now I wholesale, I do rentals and I do fix and flip, you know, and wholesaling, I'd like to say like I'd love to wholesale everything where like I just buy it, put it on the market. But some properties, I mean, we can get into the details on it. Like you just can't do that because it's very risky if you wholesale, because there's like certain parts of the property that you can't fix in any way. So I either buy an assign or buy and sell primarily. And now I listen to guys like you announced starting to acquire rental. So I just buy my first rental that I'm actually keeping a, was that a couple of weeks ago it was a complete disaster. Like why I got the price I got for it.

(13:04): And there's like a bad tendon there right now, but just been flipping houses for five years, man. I got started in college. I this is all I've ever done. I've never had a regular job. I've done this since I was in college. So it's my only career. And man, I'm not a high volume guy right now. Like I'm really on any given month, I'm doing like two to four deals a month. But the deals that I do are pretty fat. They're not like little mouse deals as Tato backs has their bigger deals. Their spreads are big. So yeah, it's great. It's good from flipping. And now I'm starting to slowly get a team developed to where I can get. I'm less involved in the business, but the margin is still there because I have a lot, we have a lot of mutual friends and they do a lot of volume, but their overhead is crazy.

(13:42): I, you know that doesn't attract me, you know? So starting to do a lean team model. Tell me why you don't like wholesaling. I don't like wholesaling strictly because I think number one, you leave money on the table because there's opportunities where if you take that thing down, you're going to just flat out, make more money. I don't care what any guru says about their cash conversion cycle, whatever you're going to make more money. If you close on the property, number two, you're going to be able to convert more of your deals that come in. Because if you're only a wholesaler and for some reason you can't assign that contract or whatever, that marketing dollar that you spent is not going to be as high as the marketing dollars that I spend because I have the ability to close rehab in Burr or whatever. And I think also the third reason is that I don't think I was congruent man, with what I was offering in the marketplace. I was offering, I'm buying your house for Tash, but I really didn't have the means and ability to close a couple of years ago. So I just didn't feel like I was congruent with what I was saying to the marketplace. So I said, I got to freaking close on these properties because I can't be guaranteeing these home offers and cash and all that. I was kind of lying to be very honest with you. Yeah. I had to get my act together, dude,

(14:45): The dude that you're exactly right, man. All the things you said, you're exactly on point man, like wholesaling it's it's, it's a slimy business. When you tell me we're going to pay cash for the house, you don't have two nickels to rub together. I didn't do that, man. You'll meet people. I've seen that. The host of theirs here that they're telling us all, we're buying your house close in 45 days. It's day 44. They're moving out and that's like,

(15:09): Dude, that's not good businessman. And that's, I bet you that's really common in like a Cleveland where it's more like, not like San Diego where the houses are cheaper. It's easier to get like deals under contract. Yeah. Big deal in your city.

(15:20): You can like ruin people's lives, dude. Like they think they're moving and they're getting money and they move. I've had that situation. Not, not me personally. Other wholesalers. Yeah. You were the guy coming in after coming after. Cause I just, I can't, I won't do that. I won't run a business like that. You tell someone you're going to close you freaking close.

(15:38): It's a big deal. What you just said. I hope the listeners rewind that if you tell a seller, you're going to deliver on a promise. You need to be able to follow through on what you say you're going to do because that's the number one thing it's ruse up investors. It's not the wrong list. It's not the wrong sales tactic. It's people not being congruent with their offers. So I was wholesaling a couple of years ago and I was not, my business was dependent upon other people. It was dependent upon the buyers and I was not aggressive with my marketing and with my negotiating because I was dependent upon somebody else. I was a cash buyer employee as Todd back would say. Yeah. And I started to realize like, if I want to be a legitimate real estate investor, I need to actually buy the properties and take them down. So fortunately I've done, it did a bunch of wholesales before that. So I had some money saved up. So I started to taking my own cash and closing and now I private money. I do, you know, private money, hard money.

(16:29): That's a big thing you're saying don't skip over that though, because a lot of guys don't have money. None of us had money when we started. So what are you doing? Are you raising private money or using transactional funding? What are you doing to get money?

(16:41): So if I'm going to close, which is the majority of the time now I use, so there's a combination of hard money, right? I think in the beginning I used hard money because I didn't have the confidence to pitch a private investor a deal because I haven't really closed on any of that myself at the time. So I didn't want to be like, Hey uncle, bill, give me some money. I've never done this before. Like I like you, I want to eat dinner next to you on Thanksgiving. So I started taking hard money and I'd put my own cash at risk, you know, with the deposit and the monthly payment did a bunch of those very successfully. And then I started saying, Hey, do you have some money sitting in your bank that you're just getting 0% interest on? Like I, you know, I'd be happy to partner with someone or work with them on a real estate deal.

(17:18): I wasn't like blindly like giving out returns like on Facebook, you know, but I'd say part of me has some deals, you know, I'd be happy to work and then like, you know, get a phone. So I raised private money now on rehabs and things like that, hotel deals, but really, I still joke with the private money. A lot of it is from my warm network. And a lot of is repeat customers like people that I've already raised money from and successfully, you know, you know, gave him the return and then now they want to come back for more. You know? So I really only go with private money on the home run deals where like, I know this is a freaking guaranteed, like, you know, there's no guarantees, but I know it's a really good opportunity. It's going to be profitable on their flip.

(17:53): And if it's a borderline deal, which I still love doing, I put hard money at risk with my own cash because I'm very, very, very aware of the investor and their belief in me and my ability to do the deal. So if it's a borderline deal, I'll take it down with hard money and I'll incur the risk myself. But you know, I think the more experience I get with construction and operating like a flip business or just the construction in general rentals or flipping, you know, I'm more open to the private money thing. But in the beginning to give like your listeners advice, I wouldn't raise private money. If I was brand new looking to take down my first property, I would probably rather go hard money just so you can kind of let the lender almost be your partner because they're not going to give you a loan. If the deal stinks and that's a good sign for you, right? But if you're alone, that means they have some belief in that asset. And then obviously, you know, you need to have some cash. You know, you don't need to have a billion dollars in the bank, but you need some money for reserves and you need some money for monthly payment. And I think it's a good way to get started, man. You're right.

(18:50): Look, you have to have money. Like I'm not one of you gotta have money down million dollars a year. Like, dude, you gotta have a little bit of money. I mean, I'm talking this like 10,000, 15,000, like you said enough to like maybe fix it up a little bit, pay some closing costs, make sure you make payments to your month, your lender. Like you have to have a little bit of money, dude. If you don't, then you need to focus on going and make some money wherever you were. I don't care where you work at Costco. Then save up, stop spending money on Starbucks and start saving money in a year from now say I'm going to get into real estate. And when I do, I got a little bit of money and I'll keep your attention to you. Start putting your own money.

(19:24): Believe a hundred percent, man. You got to sleep dash. Yeah, for sure.

(19:29): Yeah. He's sleeping til 10 o'clock on Saturday. Like I gotta get up, man. We'll get this money.

(19:34): Oh dude told, especially I'm renovating properties across the country right now. I got like, you know, tons of my dough on the street. I'm like, Hey, what's going on? You know, we've got the most guy there. We got that renovation going. I got a project manager who does my projects for me. So I'm not like involved in the construction, but yeah, I mean, in the thing, I don't understand. I like how we're kind of getting on this topic. Like I feel like a lot of guys, they're trying to find a way to not put their money in the deal in the beginning. What else are you going to spend your money on? Like, what are you going to freaking do? You're going to go buy, you know, beer with it on Friday. Like if you have zero liquidity, like if I was going to give somebody a hard money loan, like let's say someone wanted to get a hard money loan from me and I underwrote them and they had no cash in the bank.

(20:09): The root cause of that is like, dude, you're probably not gonna have with your money because if you don't have to make an, a billion dollars a year to save money, like a reasonable human. So like that's a red flag for me as a lender, you know what I'm saying? I got no cash in the bank. Like why what's going on? There's a reason for everything there is what markets are you in right now? So I'm doing deals in my hometown, in the Hudson Valley area of New York. So it's like an hour from New York city. So it's technically, it's upstate, but it's really not like, like Metro area. And then I just started breaking into San Diego a lot last few months, which has been a little bit tough. I mean, this market's super competitive, but I mean my first big assignment off the gate, like 40 K.

(20:48): So it was a pretty good, pretty good rip out here. So you know, this, the San Diego market is way more of like a, you know, you're going to get a deal maybe once a month, maybe once every other month, but the spreads can be big if you're going to assign or flip. So yeah, Diego and then the Hudson Valley area of New York. And then before that I was always doing business in New York. But man down in Dallas, Texas, I jumped in there like back before cold calling was like really saturated and popular. And I was straight up cold calling vacant houses in Dallas, Texas before all these lists Packers came out and it was like a blue ocean. So I probably knocked out like 45 properties down there, just all virtual without having to, you know, and you know, we're doing wholesaling wholesaling and we did some light rehabbing down there.

(21:28): But as that marketing channel I saw like started to get more saturated and it started to become more of a red ocean. I decided to pull out of there. Cause I looked at where the profits were getting made and they weren't getting made as much in Texas. They were getting made more in New York and now obviously California with, with that one deal to close. So the point of that is like always be able to pivot. You know, what's working today might not work tomorrow and then what's not working tomorrow might work. You know what I mean? So you always gotta be on your toes for sure.

(21:55): That was one of my biggest issues. I always thought I wanted a business. I'm like, I was like, why do I always got to constantly keep educating myself and being in front of the wave? And I'm shifting gears every literally, I mean every three months, like I'm shifting gears and I thought I was doing something wrong for a lot of years until really recently I found out that's all businesses. Everybody is doing. Let me tell you, I got a buddy here. I'm not going to say who he is, but he's in the monument business. Okay. Hearing the Cleveland, the monument business cemetery. So the desk, business, death, business, business, great business. It got us really? Yeah. He, he he's always in demand and like the dudes of baller, right? To say the least like he's a rockstar. I know him real well. Talking to me the other day.

(22:36): I say, Hey man, I go, how's everything going? He's like, , dude. It's tough right now. Like what do you mean is tough. I mean, people are dying left and right. Bless you with COVID. He's like, no, dude. He's like, look, cremations are up right now. They're not going in and getting buried anymore. I have to pivot. He's like, so I have to do different things on business. He's like we are doing making headstones for dogs. Listen to this . He told me people will spend more money on their dog when it passes for a headstone and they will on person what dude? And she told me this stuff like crazy. That's crazy, man. They're doing restorations. Now. They're going into old cemeteries, like a hundred year old cemeteries and doing restorations, like fixing the pitted monuments that are all beat up.

(23:21): But so even him in that business that you would think is streamlined, like to death, business by a headstone. He even, he is pivoting constantly to the market. So when I hear stories like that, I was like, dude. Okay. It's not just me. Like, you know, I guess some of the things I could tell you, man, like, it's crazy. But like, like in this business, I always say that there's a lot of components, right? There's acquisition disposition. There's the part of it. There's the contractor part of it. There's always something that's going to be a challenge. Right? One of those pieces will always be a challenge before it was easier in Cleveland. It's easy to get houses. I can close my eyes, go on the MLS book and I can pop out my Les. Like it's nothing. And did that for like 10 years. It was like that. But now it's not like that now. And before when you come back on my last, you could buy the house as easy with no buyers. There were no buyers anywhere for this stuff, but now there's no houses. And I got buyers everywhere. Everybody's calling one, a house over here in Cleveland, man. It's crazy. So it's, it's changed. And then when those things are good, then something will go on with the money. Like you can't get financed and you can't raise for private money.

(24:22): Try it up hard money guys. Always say it's like a rally, something a whack-a-mole you know,

(24:28): Dude, I know, I feel like I beat my head on the wall some days, but that's all businesses. And I talk to guys in all aspects and the funeral guys is just a good example of what I'm trying to say. So,

(24:38): So that no, and that's a good point because you'd think a business like that, like you and I aren't like experts in that business, but you think, Oh, well everyone dies. You know? It's like the demand is always there, but like, yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's interesting how like even a business like that he has to pivot, you know, with like, if you were to generalize, but Oh yeah. Well we just probably wait for his phone ring, you know, like Cleveland, Ohio, it's a big city, you know? But uyeah. That's interesting. So it was that business associate in like the funeral business or like the cemetery business. Cause there's like, no,

(25:03): It's like, he's in the I guess it's about the monument business. He just sells like tombstones and stuff. Tombstones, you know, all that headstone wherever you call them. Oh, to stone basically. Yeah.

(25:13): Okay. So he, the big be engraving and stuff like gravy,

(25:16): They do all that fancy engraving and the more money the customer has, the bigger monument. Oh, for sure. Right. You know?

(25:24): Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. I mean dog grant, I mean, I remember my, my old dog passed away last year and like I was a little bummed out, but like I think we just gave them to the vet. Like the guy was 15 years old, the dog, right. Or dog, you know,

(25:40): You don't have to think on this too. What else he told me was he has constant competition with China. People will go online and order an engraved headstone out of China for 200 bucks. Have it shipped to Cleveland. Yeah. And you know, use that instead of paying him a thousand dollars for a marker.

(25:57): Yeah. That's interesting. Do you think the shipping would be a fortune with it? Cause he got to fly that thing. It's gotta be so heavy. You know,

(26:04): That thing probably takes six months to get here, but what does it matter? They're not going anywhere. If you know what I mean. It's true. I don't know. This is true. Is there any asks you have or anything you want to tell these Cleveland, Ohio listeners or people who are interested about Cleveland or anything you want to talk about?

(26:23): I would say, I feel like every time I give advice on a podcast, it's me giving advice to myself. You know, I would say, I think there's like, I've noticed, you know, I haven't, I have not been doing this as long as you or a lot of our mutual funds, but I've been doing this everyday for five years, straight up every day in my life for five years, I've been doing this almost a half decade. I've noticed there's three days as an entrepreneur that I've experienced so far. There's updates. There's down days and there's neutral days. Okay. Updates. Or when you freaking you, you just refiled that rental, you just made six figures on that rehab. You just got your first wholesale deal. Whatever those are few and far between like every day is not going to be an update. There's going to be those down days where like you freaking your marketing campaign tank, you've got going through an eviction, your, your contractor scammed you and you feel like you want to quit this business socks.

(27:06): Why am I in this? I should go sell insurance, et cetera, et cetera. And then there's these neutral days, which is like every day you're, you're making some progress, but you feel like you maybe could have done a little bit more, but you still got some leads. You made some offers, you got that new applicant screen. And I've noticed that most days are just neutral days and you have to be okay with the neutral day because that neutral day is what gets you to that update. And it gets you to that, like that you know, summit feeling. And then, you know, at that, when you have the update, there's going to be those down days. And then when you're in those down days, you're going to have updates. So basically it's a rollercoaster, right? It's like Darren Hardy's book, the entrepreneur roller coaster. And you gotta be willing to go through that process because if you want to just do this full-time and not have to ever work again, you need to be accepting of these up-down and neutral days. Because not if, but when they happen, hopefully you'll hear this and you'll be like, Oh, this is what they said on that podcast. Totally normal and happens to everyone, whether it's Joe or me, or, you know, the president or whoever, like everyone has got to get used to them. I think if you understand that before you get into the game or if you're in the game, if you're going through it, it'll be easier for you. So the three types of days are important, dude. I agree. That is awesome. That's

(28:09): Great takeaway. And it helps keep people motivated.

(28:12): That's right. That's right. It's the process. So that's my best advice, honestly. Like, I mean, I think like that is like more of a principle versus like, Hey, you should text people between six and seven.

(28:21): That can change. You know what I mean? Like of course

(28:24): Principal advice versus tactical advice.

(28:26): I love it, man. Listen, I appreciate you coming on my show today, man. We'll keep it short and sweet around here. Thank you, man. Thank you very much. And I look forward to connecting with you soon, right on man. Thanks for having me on Joe. I appreciate it.

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