No don't go in there, Daddy's working.
Jonathan: We're back. It's another episode of Daddy's Working, and once again, I am not the only daddy on the show. I have brought another guest to share in the joy. Tim, what is up, brother?
Tim: Jon, excited to be here, man. Thank you for having me, bud.
Jonathan: So I want our listeners to… you know, here's the thing - I've always thought of golf as a really, an old man's sport almost, real low impact and you're here after a tragic golf experience, man. How did golf turn into a full impact sport for you?
Tim: [0:01:00.1] Yeah, man. No. It was a week and a half ago. I was at a mastermind. We were golfing on Friday night and then mastermind was all day Saturday and a little bit on Sunday. And dude, on the fourth hole, I was a little bit ahead, we were playing scramble, we were trying to move fast and I was about at a 45-degree angle, 20 yards up from one of the other guys hitting and I was just, you know, trying to grab one of my clubs and trying to figure out the lie and all that stuff. And this dude rips like a 7 iron and I didn't even see it, man. It hit me right in the side of the mouth and it shattered my upper mandible, which is the bone that holds in all your teeth. It knocked four teeth out, and just shredded my gums and my lip open, and so, dude, like I didn't get knocked out but I dropped to my knees, thinking I'd pass out because I felt my teeth, blood was streaming, and I remember looking down and just being like, wow this grass is really cut, manicured well. Then I was like, how the hell do I think like that, like, and you know, we're in a mastermind together, you and I, and one of our buddies, Mark, always talked about thoughts on thoughts and like why are you having those thoughts. [0:02:02.2] And I was like I'm going to have something tragic happen and still see beauty in this; it's actually kind of cool. And then immediately, my mind went to like this could have been way worse. Right? If this hit an inch north of where it did, it would have shattered my cheek bone. It would have shattered my eye socket. It could have popped my eyeball out of my eye. I could be blind right now. It could have hit me in the temple and I could be dead. And so I got incredibly grateful in the moment, actually and it was just kind of like, you know, I got into business mode. I'm like, now we gotta go and let's go and get this sorted out. Right? And so I hopped in a golf cart. One of my buddies drove me back to the club house. We're cleaning out my mouth. We're Google searching 24-hour dentists, because it's you know, a Friday evening, and I'm at Firestone Country Club in Cleveland, Ohio or in Akron, Ohio, where one of the big tournaments always was and so there were some money people there. And there happened to be two dentists in the dining room, dining separately, hanging out. So they call me up to the dining room. They sit me in a bar chair. I sit, I lean back. They're like, alright, we got to take you over to my place. So we got in the car. [0:03:00.2] The guy leaves what he's doing, both the dentists, and an ER nurse that happened to be there, too, all left their Friday night/evening. We went over to the one guy's place. He stitched me all up, stopped the bleeding, called up his buddy, who is an oral surgeon. That guy ended up coming out and on a Friday night also, leaving his home, and then put my teeth back in, put this big brace and arch bar on. So I'm a little bit lispy, but that's alright because, again, it could have been way worse, and I was extremely fortunate that these people were willing to help some random stranger on a Friday night, and you know, got three of my teeth back in. The one is still broken, but now it's just a cosmetic thing, you know. So, I have to wait for it all to heal and eventually it will be fine, but again, man, it makes you think. Like I went home that night, hugged my wife, hugged the kids in the morning, kissed the kids, and I was like, it could have been I would never be able to see you out of this eye again. Right? Or could be dead and maybe not see you ever. And so it was like a very humbling experience and it was very, like, you know, why - like why would it hit me here and not a little bit higher and not make me go blind, not kill me. [0:04:04.4] Like is there a reason that that all happened. You start asking. You go down this rabbit hole of like - I'm meant for a bigger purpose, you know, like, I got to pay it forward, I got to share insight. I got to help more people, make a bigger impact in the world. And that's kind of the road I've been down the past 10 days, so. It's been crazy, man. But I'm excited to be here with you.
Jonathan: Good grief, man. So I think everybody's wondering right about now - will you ever golf again?
Tim: Yeah, so I'm actually going to a bachelor party this weekend and we were going to go to Top Golf and just hit some balls, but I don't know - I think I'm going to - I'm a little bit scarred, not only physically but some PTSD from the whole thing. So I think I'm just going to sit it out and hang out and just have some drinks while everybody else is golfing. But maybe in the next 30 days or so, I need to kind of get past a little bit of the stuff.
Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. So that plays into what we're about here, and that resilience of getting back out there, even when the stuff hits the fan, or a golf ball hits your jaw. [0:05:02.8] You get back out there. So for our listeners, Tim - I know a little bit about your background - but can you give us like a quick elevator pitch who you are and what you're about?
Tim: Yeah, man. I'm a real estate investor. I buy exclusively apartment buildings. I've done everything in the single-family realm. I got started 10 years ago when the market was good, got into real estate, the whole market shifted and just, yeah, I've done everything. I've wholesaled single family houses. For anybody who is familiar with real estate - I've wholesaled. I've flipped retail houses like you see on HGTV; I've done that. I bought turnkey houses, single family, where you buy it, you fix it all up, put a tenant in place and sell it as a turnkey rental property for, you know, kind of more passive investors. I owned one of the biggest management companies. I've owned a couple of vacation rentals, office buildings, and then got into apartments. I've been doing apartments, you know, for a long time, but just, that is my focus now. Like that meets my long-term goals better than anything else does, and so that's what I spend 100% of my time on now. I don’t do anything else other than buy B-class apartment buildings, value at apartment buildings. [0:06:01.1] So I own a little over 2500 units right now. I'm 33 years old, will be 34 actually next month, and I have another 648 units under contract closing in the next 30 days. So, be a little over 3200 units at the age of 34; that's cool. But what's more cool is sometimes I teach other people how to do it and I've been able to help other people who are, you know, stuck in the transactional, trading their time for money, you know, flipping houses and stuff like that, like I was, and help them get into more of that legacy wealth building place where you have passive income, residual income. And so I do a little bit of coaching and mentoring on that front. That feeds the soul.
Jonathan: Let's talk about that for a little bit. How do you go from just like… well, what is your goal? You said this feeds your goal. So what is your goal? What is your, you know, the big picture?
Tim: Feeds the soul.
Jonathan: The soul. The soul.
Tim: Feeds my soul. So, I like being able to give back, you know. I think wealth is like… it's like sunshine. Right? Like you getting sunshine takes no sunshine away from me. There's an abundance of it. And I think wealth works the same way, and you can make a lot of money in single family. [0:07:00.9] You can make a lot of money in commercial real estate. You can make a lot of money in apartments or vacation rentals or self-storage. It doesn't really matter; there's plenty of it out there. Just in apartment buildings alone, there's 44,000 apartment buildings in the continental United States, over 100 units. If you bought one of those, your financial future would be changed forever. And there's millions of apartment buildings under 100 units; If you bought a handful of those, your financial future would be changed forever. So, I teach people how to do that or I mentor people on how to do that, and that's cool and it feeds the soul. My personal long-term financial goal is $1,000,000,000 in assets. I'm at $250,000,000 in the next 30 days, once I close on this other package. So I'm at a little over 200 right now. This next package is around $50-60,000,000, whenever it is all stabilized, depends on how all the rents and all that stuff play out, but it will be probably closer to $60,000,000.
Jonathan: So where, like what does that number mean to you. Why did you come up with that number, and how does it drive you?
Tim: Yeah, so great question, and it's probably one of those ego-driven answers. Right? [0:08:00.8] It's just a number and it's a big number and it makes people's eyes get wide and it's 100% ego. I don’t need to do it. You know, I think once… I remember watching this, this - I think it was on like public television, you know, like whatever it is - PBS, right? And I'm watching this documentary on happiness and essentially it said, hey, once your basic needs are met, your basic needs, and that's you know, house, you know, a roof over your head, clothes on your back, food on the table, safety, security, once those needs are met, there's no difference in if you make, you know, and that's around $50,000, maybe $75,000 depending on the market or where you live… once you're there, there's no difference between making $75,000 or $7.5 million dollars or $75 million dollars a year. Right? In your happiness level. And so, I've exceeded that. I'm past that. The bigger driver for me is not necessarily to make, like have a billion-dollar portfolio; it's more to just show people what's possible. [0:09:00.3] Right? It's to say, "Hey listen, if this guy can do it from a blue-collar town outside of Cleveland, Ohio as a, you know, 34-year-old kid, I know I could do this too. Right? I have better resources. I'm smarter than this guy is." Like, it's more of an inspiration kind of thing, for me, of showing people that, you know, their current circumstance doesn’t have to dictate everything else in their life. That's not who they are. Right? Like their current circumstance, they can do more, be more, have more, give more, and there's other things, and other types of ways of making money that can create a better lifestyle, I guess, for them. And you know, it's not about the money, like I said - it's about what the money can do and how it can give back. We're in a very go-giver type mentality mastermind together where, you know, we raise $150,000 in one night, kind of just put together a little mastermind, a couple of real estate and different entrepreneurs at that event. We raise $150,000 just from people buying some art work and I auctioned off a couple of tickets to one of my courses, and it was just - it's really cool to be in that type of setting and it's not about what the money can do for us. [0:10:06.5] It's about what the money can do for other people. We're going to build a village down in Haiti with that money, and make a significant impact for 200 people with their own self-sustaining water and their own self-sustaining community and jobs and farm and all this other stuff. And I think that's true legacy. It's not about the treasure that you pass down. Right? It's about the impact that you make and making sure that the world is a better place when you're gone.
Jonathan: That is beautiful, man. So, you said you were… let's go back…let's rewind. So, Tim, you said you came from a blue-collar background. What was it like growing up in your house, and what was the thought, like around money?
Tim: Yeah, so. Very polar opposite between my parents. My parents are still together. You know, I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. We always had what we needed, not always what we wanted maybe, but my dad was a very selfless guy. So he would always, I mean, this is, I remember he always had 3-4 jobs at a time. [0:11:04.3] He was a full-time police officer. He had a part-time business through the police academy. They paid for his additional higher education, so he ended up getting his PhD, first in our family to get a PhD, and then ended up teaching at a local community college and although he had all those jobs, he was always at every single one of my sporting events, all my brothers and my sisters' sporting events too. And so the support was like immense. It was, I mean, I won the jackpot from a parental standpoint. My mom is like, never had a full-time job, you know, was always a stay-at-home mom with four kids but volunteered and just gave, gave, and gave, has a massive heart for children and helping kids and education, you know, was PTA president of the entire school district and all this other stuff. So got, you know, statewide awards for just her volunteer efforts and stuff. So I get a lot of my giving from her. A lot of my work ethic comes from my dad and support from both of them, and I think - it was awesome. [0:12:05.2] I mean, we had what we needed. We had a great house and you know, probably middle, upper middle classish, but again, not rich, but had "Tim, you can do anything. Tim, you can go and be anything. You can accomplish anything." At the same time, they also told me to go get a job, right, and go get good grades so you can get a good job and work for somebody else and all that stuff. Then I saw my dad actually make more money part-time in his business than he did in his full-time job, and I was like, something's getting ruined here. I want to go be, you know, take the entrepreneurial path. That's what led me into real estate. I got into real estate when 2003-2007, I was going through college and I was money motivated. I'm like 20 years old, right, and people said, "Hey, if you want to make money, anybody with a pulse can make money in real estate in this market." I was like, "Oh, I'm in." And then I just, you know, went off to New York City. My brother lived out in New York, and when I was out in New York, I became a commercial real estate agent, leasing office and retail space and my first deal I ever leased was a 400-square foot retail space in Greenwich Village. [0:13:05.9] It was $10,000 a month, was what it leased for, and I was like, holy cow, I'm on the wrong side of the coin. I need to be owning this stuff instead of brokering it. And then went down the path of all the single family and investing, and it got me to the commercial and apartments and where we are now, man.
Jonathan: So, that's interesting that you - at least you picked up on it, was that your dad was pulling in more on the entrepreneurial thing. Did you parents, since they wanted you to get a good education and a good job, did they give you any kickback on the idea of just doing your own thing and not having a job?
Tim: Yeah, for a long time, for years. Because I wasn't - where I am today is very different than where I was 10 years ago. Right? I mean, I remember 2012, just whatever, 6 or 7 years ago, I remember, you know, that summer, I didn't have enough money to, I was taking coins from my cup holder in my car to pay for gas in my car. Right? I was, I had $24,970 in credit card debt and I had 67 bucks in my bank account, you know. [0:14:04.8] I couldn’t make the minimum payment on my credit cards, and I remember just like crying because I had to borrow money to make a minimum payment on my credit card and be and like, I just, and my dad's like "Go get a job. Go get a job. Go get a job." You know, and I'm like, I know I can make it work, you know but at the same time, he's a parent, right, like as parents… I have a 4-year-old daughter and a 2-year-old son now. We don’t want any pain for them. Right? I don’t want them to go through the same pain that I went through financially, physically, right, all these different things, but at the same time, that's what makes us grow. Right? That's what makes us better. And we don’t want to see our kids - I know my dad didn't want to see me suffer from a financial perspective, because he came from a very poor household, like didn't have enough money for a car, like my grandma, you know, didn't have a car for, I don't know, 50 or 60 years, the last 60 years of her life, right? And so he grew up in that, and he knows what it's like, you know, to be broke and didn't want me to have to go through that, but you know, at the end of the day, like I knew… I was resourceful enough, I guess, where I could, where even if I didn't have the resources, I could figure it out, I would make it happen. [0:15:09.1] I just needed to find the vehicle, and eventually, I kind of was able to make that work through real estate.
Jonathan: How did you keep the faith, bro? Because people get down to $24 in their account and they can't make the minimums and they're scraping change.
Jonathan: They are looking for the easiest way, and I think that the easiest way is to get a job. So how did you keep that belief and that faith?
Tim: Dude, I was like, how can I make money? Right? How can I figure this out and you know, without, you know, having to break any of my values. Right? I wasn’t going to do anything illegal, obviously, but I started, dude, I literally started selling my furniture. I started selling my DVDs. I started selling, you know, all sorts of things in my garage and then eventually… I had my house, so I had equity in a house, not much, but I had probably, I don't know, a little over 50 grand equity in my house and I ended up having to sell my house in order to kind of get myself… because when you're stuck in that situation, man, like you can't see out of that situation. Right? [0:16:03.2] There's so much stress and there's so much weight on your shoulders and it's very difficult to think progressively when you have that much stress going on. And I was like, dude, I just need to… I had a girlfriend at the time, you know, and I said, hey, like, she's giving me a hard time, I need a ring… I was like, I can't cover my minimum payments on my credit card let alone a frigging ring, right? And so, I was like, you know, I need to get my head out of my ass and stop, you know, thinking I'm going to do something more than what I can currently do and I think just pressing the reset button by selling my house would help me get there. So, I was fortunate enough where I had this house. The market was on an upswing. I was able to sell it. I put 50 grand in my pocket, got engaged, and then (she's my wife now), and then moved back to Cleveland, Ohio. I was down in Charleston, South Carolina at that time. I lived down there for about 5 years, and so, been back in Cleveland since end of 2012, beginning of 2013 and when… I was in another business. [0:17:01.2] It was actually a network marketing company and so I was doing a little bit of real estate and I was doing some network marketing for this one other company and you know, you're drinking the juice and they're selling you on this dream, and it just didn't play out. Right? And I'm like, I know I have a better skillset. I know I can just deploy my skills in real estate. Because before I joined that network marketing company - not saying there's anything wrong with network marketing - it's just, I mean, all the personal development stuff that I have in my brain today, I've got a lot of that, majority of it, from network marketing. I think it's amazing to put you on this entrepreneurial path, but for me, I just had a different skillset that I could deploy into real estate, and when I, I mean, before I got into network marketing, I had, you know, nine houses, 10 houses, and I wasn’t rich, but I had 3 grand a month cash flow coming in that covered all my personal expenses, you know, because, I mean I was a 23-year-old kid, 24-year-old kid, right, back then and so I didn't have a lot of operating expenses or overhead in my life, and so I was like financially free. Right? So, it covered all my personal expenses and all my business expenses and I had a couple of grand a month that I could sit on, and although I wasn’t rich, I was financially free and I'm like, I know can just do that again. [0:18:05.7] Like that's when I was happiest. And so I got back into real estate and eventually you meet some people who have some money but maybe don’t have the time or the knowledge or the skillset or the bandwidth to take on deals. And they put up the money; I did the work, and man, I gave up 70% of my first several hundred projects that I did just because I needed, I knew I needed like to build a reputation, build my resume up. And then finally, you know, I had some partners; that went south real bad, and just, life happens, right. And people don’t forecast for marriage and kids and all these other things and we ended up liquidating the whole portfolio. I was able to walk away with a few hundred thousand dollars from that. Then for the past about 3 or 4 years, I've just been doing my own thing now and you know, although that was a big setback in my life, selling my entire real estate portfolio, that was a big, you know, what seemed like a setback was really a set up. Right? [0:19:00.2] And set me up to just spread my wings and fly and do a lot of cool stuff and not have that weight on my shoulders anymore. So, you know, just got my own team now. I own 100% of my company. I do partner up with people on a joint venture, deal-by-deal basis, which I love doing, but you're not married to them, right. The only person I want to be married to is my wife. I don’t want to be married to anybody else and anything else, but on a deal-by-deal basis, I love it because you can really bring a lot of A players together. People can bring their certain skillsets and their unique ability to the project and you know, you soar, and I know a lot people I do repeat business with - we're not partners across everything - but we're partners on a lot of deals over and over again because we like to be with each other. Right? We like working with each other, not because we have to work with each other.
Jonathan: You said something interesting there that I think would be valuable to revisit for a second for our listeners. You met people with money and they couldn’t do the deal, so you put in the muscle, you put in the groundwork. Where do you meet these people with money? Where is the money?
Tim: Bro, they are everywhere. Like, there's so, like, what I didn't realize is I wasn’t telling people about what I was doing. [0:20:03.1] I didn't tell enough people about what I did and how I did it, and at first, going and raising money, when you don’t have the confidence or you don’t have the belief in yourself, is very difficult to do. Right? How are you going to convince somebody if you don’t, if you're not confident in what you're doing and what you're - and your ability, especially when you're coming from not having any money, being totally broke, and not being able to pay for the gas in your car. Right? And so for me, it was - some people approached me. They knew me. Actually, there were a couple of guys from the network marketing business that I was in and they saw my work ethic. They just realized I was in the wrong vehicle. Right? If you and I were racing down the street, two cars, and you had a Ferrari and I had a Ford Pinto, who is going to win? Right? You're going to win. But if we stopped at the next red light and we switched and I get in the Ferrari and you get in the Ford Pinto, I'm going to win. So it's a little bit about the jockey and a little bit about the horse kind of a thing. Right? And for me, I knew I was the right jockey, but I just didn't have the right horse or the right vehicle. And so, I ended up - they saw that I was not in the right vehicle. [0:21:00.8] They were willing to put some money with me, and then eventually, once I built up some confidence by doing some deals, I was able to go and raise money from other sources. And there's people, I mean, a massive one is 401k retirement plans, IRAs and 401k. What a lot of people don’t realize is that you can take that money that's with Charles Schwab or Fidelity or whatever and you can put it into a self-directed IRA custodian. Meaning, it's just somebody who, they don’t tell you what to do with the money, but they're just custodian. There's no tax ramifications for taking it from there and putting it with this custodian, nothing like that, but now you can direct your money into whatever investment you want. You can go and buy stocks with it if you feel like it. You can go and buy a rental property with it and all the rents that come in would either come in tax free or tax deferred based on the type of retirement vehicle that you have, and it's a massive opportunity. Or you can lend the money to somebody else who knows what they're doing and you can take - I mean, I have a lot of people who lend me money from their 401k – "here's 100 grand, Tim." I pay them a fixed return plus give them some equity on the upside of the deal and their retirement account grows and grows and grows. [0:22:04.1] So, that's a big one. The other one is entrepreneurs. For me, entrepreneurs make a lot of money. What I've seen is that they make a lot of money. Some of them spend a lot of money, but some of them can keep some of it, right, and save it. But what they're not good at doing, most of, you know, I'm talking ecommerce and you know, entrepreneurs that are not real estate - they're not good at getting their money working for them. They just go and meet with a financial advisor. They stick it into, you know, some mutual fund. They hope to make 6%, 8% per year, but it goes up and down. It's a lot of volatility and they don’t like it, and if they go and try to buy real estate themselves, a lot of times they get kicked in the crotch because it's like starting another business. It's like you or I, because we eat in a restaurant, it doesn’t mean we can go and open up a restaurant. Right? It's a new business. And so I buy a lot of properties from smart entrepreneurs who thought they could just do it on their own. It's not, it's a learning curve you got to go through. You got to really know what you're doing. So a lot of entrepreneurs, entrepreneur circles, that I hang out with, they're looking for places to just park their money. [0:23:00.3] They launch a product, they sell their business - whatever - and they have a big influx of cash. I just talk to them, educate them on what we have got going on. I don’t have to sell anybody anything. Right? This is like, it's like… I remember a Chris Rock standup - he was like, you know, drug dealers don’t need to sell a drug. Drug dealers just offer drugs. Drugs sell themselves. And like the returns and the way that I structure my deals sells itself. It's better toe-to-toe than anything else that's out there, between having a fixed return plus equity upside, plus tax advantages. It just makes a lot of sense whenever anybody compares it. So I get a lot of entrepreneurs who are like, dude, 100% - let me deploy some capital with you, and then they come back and want to do it again, do it again, do it again. So, it's entrepreneurs who are not in real estate are great real estate investors or passive lenders for me. Anybody with money in an IRA or 401k, anything like that, are phenomenal. And you know, I talk to my CPA, talk to my attorney - I ask them who they know - they know other people with money - and when you start hanging out with people with money and they know people with money, then all of a sudden, the connections are made and access to capital is a lot easier than a lot of people think. [0:24:03.3]
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Jonathan: [0:25:03.6] One thing I didn't hear you say here, well two things - another one is whole life insurance with cash value, which I'm obsessing over lately, which is a great vehicle for lending money to guys like you. And the other thing is I heard a rumor that somehow you raise money on podcasts. Is that true?
Tim: So one - whole life is awesome; it just takes a lot of time to accrue and build up all that, you know, like that, the whole infinite banking concept. Although it's been around for a while, like it's really just kind of getting trendy now. So people are just opening up accounts now. I have one for both my kids, you know, I have my own but I've only had it open for a couple of years now. So in order to build up that cash value, it needs to be around for a while and if there's people who started a long time ago, great, yeah. I have not raised any money, or I don’t know of anybody who has loaned me money from that, but that's going to be a massive vehicle, I know, in the next 10 years where people have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars stocked up in that. And then from podcasts? [0:26:01.0] Yeah, so I have my own podcast where I educate people on the three principles of building wealth - making money, keeping money, making your money make more money. Right? It's called Legacy Wealth Show. So I do that and you know, there's a lot of people who hit me up from the podcast of wanting to invest in projects. I'm on a lot of other real estate podcasts, and as a real estate investor, you're always looking for two things - one is deals and two is money. So if you know how to find deals and you know how to raise money, it doesn’t matter what the real estate market looks like, you can have a lot of success. And actually, you make more money in a down market than you do in a market like this because deals are hard to come by and sellers are, you know, not realistic in their expectations of what they want from a price point, and you know, and again, it's not a sales things. I just kind of go on. I try to provide as much value as I possibly can, you know. I connect with some people. Some people might think I'm a total idiot and the ones who like me hit me up and they say hey man, I'm interested in, you know, partnering up or bringing money to the deal or whatever. And so, I'm not allowed to actually pitch people who reach out to me off of the podcast. [0:27:00.5] I need to build a relationship first, per SCC guidelines, and we build a relationship over 30, 60, 90 days. I try to figure out what they're looking for, what their long-terms goals are. They tell me about some of their experiences in investing and when the right deal pops up that meets kind of what they're looking for, then I can share that with them. But you know, it's all about relationships. It's all about educating people and just sharing your knowledge.
Jonathan:. Say the name of your podcast again; I want to make sure the listeners get that.
Jonathan: LegacyWealthShow.com - cool. So let's keep talking about - I'm interested in how you go from the single families and the flips and all that and you get into this apartment thing. Like what was the transition? What was the change that happened that pushed you into that direction?
Tim: Yeah, man. Good question. I think one of the characteristics that I see in a lot of successful entrepreneurs is that they reflect very often. Right? They think about what's going on. [0:28:00.0] They know what their destination is. They know where they're at right now, and they can create, once you have that, then you can create the roadmap in order to get to that destination. Right? Without knowing what your destination is, it's hard to create a map in order to get there. And so, for me, I always knew what my destination wanted to be and I wanted to know, you know, commercial real, and I wanted to own enough property to create a certain amount of residual income and passive income and create that legacy wealth. And for me, single family just wasn’t getting me there fast enough. Every 12 months, I'd sit back, I'd look at my goals, I'd reflect on the past year - what do I need to do in order to move the needle forward. And I started doing that on a quarterly basis. When I go off to these masterminds, it's a really good time. You can just sit back and unplug for a day and just think about your business, and I started progressing even faster when I did it on a quarterly basis versus an annual basis because then you can right the ship. Right? And so, the course corrections aren’t as drastic as they are at the end of the year, every year. It's just a little bit of a course direction each quarter instead. [0:29:01.0] And so, probably… it's been almost 2 years now. I was doing a little bit of everything still. You know, I was flipping houses. I was doing some turnkey. I had a management company and I still had apartment buildings, or I was building my apartment building portfolio up again. And I didn't have a lot of apartments, but I remember sitting back at a lake house a couple of years ago and looking at my net worth and looking at where was I spending all my time, where was my team spending all our time, and my net worth, 90% of my net worth, came from apartments and it was only 10% of my time. And so I thought, holy cow, what if I just - it's like the 80/20 rule, right but even more drastic, and I was like, what if I just pivoted the business and instead of my acquisitions guy looking for single family houses, I tell him we're only looking for apartment buildings? What if I told my project manager that instead of renovating houses, we're just going to renovate apartments? What if I told my dispositions guy, the guy selling my houses, instead of selling houses, we're going to start just managing the management company, my asset manager? And so, I remember like, what puts food on the table and what keeps the lights on is the transactional flipping of houses. Right? [0:30:03.3] So I remember it being a - it was a small pivot from an operational standpoint, but from a mindset standpoint, it was a massive quantum leap. Right? And so I remember going into the office after I was at a lake house - we got it for a couple of weeks, brought the family up and that was cool - and then I remember getting back to the office and just going up to my acquisitions guy and telling the team like, I'm drawing a line in the sand, you know, the whole burn the ships - we're either going to succeed or we're going to die trying. And that's what I told them, and I got everybody on board, and it's amazing - when a door shuts or even if you close it, the kind of opportunities that open up, you know, a window opens up. And the next deal that came across our plate was an 11-unit apartment building that was in a great area but needed too much work for what we wanted, for us to take it down, so we wholesaled it. We ended up selling it to another investor. [0:31:00.1] We made $87,000 on that single deal, which then covered our overhead for the next 3 or 4 months, which allowed us now to go out and not have to do any single-family deals. We could finish everything that was in the pipeline, plus this additional income allowed us, to give us that six-month timeframe in order to start taking down some other apartment buildings. And then I picked up over 1000 units in the next 12 months.
Jonathan: Good grief, man - a thousand units? That's amazing.
Tim: It was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy.
Jonathan: So did you change your marketing approach then? It must have been you were hitting single families and then you started just going after all the multifamily owners. Was it private owners, equity firms? What is it?
Tim: Yeah, mostly mom and pop owners, you know, people who have owned the property for a long time. They suck all the cash flow out of it. They don’t reinvest anything back into the capital improvements, you know, and when you suck all the cash flow out, eventually, you know, if the roof needs to be replaced, the mechanicals need to be replaced, the windows go, the parking lot falls apart, and if you're not kind of creating a reserve for that stuff, guess what? [0:32:00.5] Eventually you paint yourself into a corner and you can't do anything. And so they get into a spot where their only option is to sell, and sell at a discount because the place is a wreck - it's physically distressed, managerially it's a distress. You know, there's not many quality tenants who want to rent a place that is falling apart, so you got to, you know, you're dealing with a bunch of deadbeats, people with bed bugs and roaches and all sorts of gross stuff. So, it's a big turnaround, but it's in a great location. Right? So, we come in. We renovate the property. We show the value that we're adding. You know, we tell the people who are hoarders and not taking care of the property, not respectful to the other tenants, they got to go. Tell everybody else - you see the value we're bringing. We want you to stay. We'll improve your unit. We just need you to sign a market rate lease and we have a science behind it. So, you know, we go through that whole process. It takes 6 months, 12 months to do it, and then we create so much value in the property, we're able to then refinance the apartment building to a price point where our new loan amount is actually more than what we're even into the property for. [0:33:00.4] So, if we're into a building for, you know, $3,000,0000 and it appraises for $5,000,000, we're able to get a new loan for $3.500,000, pay off the acquisition loan, pay off the equity investors, and put a couple of bucks in our pocket from the refinance proceeds, and then we have a cash flowing asset with a long-term loan in place, fixed interest rate loan, nonrecourse, which means like nobody is personally guaranteeing on it, and it's only house money in play; it's just the bank's money in play. So, all of our investors are paid back and they still maintain equity long-term and we just manage it and we hang on to it for the next 10 years, and we let future Tim decide what's going to happen with the building in 10 years from now.
Jonathan: That’s amazing, man. So you've been talking about this quite a bit, this idea of unique ability. What is that?
Tim: Yeah, you know, so everybody's like, I remember early on, saying, "Hey, what's your unique ability? What's your skillset?" I was like, "I don't know, I'm a 22-year-old kid. I've got a hell of a work ethic." Right? And I think that is a unique ability in some aspects. [0:34:01.5] For me, I've done everything in real estate, like, I have personally gone out, knocked on doors. I've personally gone out and done marketing. I've personally raised money, gotten the financing, managed the project, managed the renovations, leased the units out, managed the tenants, collected rent, physically did the work swinging a hammer on all these different buildings and houses early on. And did the sales. So I know everything and what I've been able to gravitate towards and find out what the highest return on my time is essentially going out and raising money, because I know everything; I can answer a lot of questions, and I have a lot of confidence in our projects and how we do business. So raising private money, for me, is one, and then the marketing side of things too. So social media - I'm always giving value. I'm always trying to share with other people on how to do this stuff. Like I'm a total open book, completely transparent in everything that we do, and I think that's refreshing. I think a lot of people are like, you know, there's a lot of people having a lot of success out there that just don’t share all their knowledge or all their insight. [0:35:03.4] You can just feel it. Right? You can feel they're holding something back. They're not giving me, you know, the final dial on a lock, they're not telling me that final one. They're giving me enough. Right? And then, like when I come on, listen - I give everything on my podcast. Somebody could not come out to one of my coaching programs, right, and they can get all my content through listening to different podcasts that I'm on and through all the free content that I've put out there. So, it's just if they want like clean, easy to understand and follow, that's why I have the paid trainings. But for me, unique ability is what's your driving force. Right? Like, what are you, what's your driver versus your drainer? Like, I can do spreadsheets. I can do property management. I can do that stuff, but it takes a lot of energy out of me in order to go out and do that. So what is like your most normal, easiest, most fluid, most in the zone-type state that you could be in, and what are you really good at? [0:36:00.8] And usually, because you're good at it, you like doing it too. Right? And so those two things, and as you get better at it, you like doing it more. And so those two things kind of complement each other, but it's a little bit of a chicken and the egg. So you kind of do, for me anyway, I had to everything in order to figure out what I really like doing; because I was good at it, I liked doing a little bit more of it, and that's my unique ability. I think there are some talents, like I couldn’t jump on a podcast with you 10 years ago. If you asked me to stand up and do a testimonial at the network marketing company 10 years ago, I'd be shaking. My cheeks would turn red, you know, I'd get all nervous. I'd start sweating like a pig and I couldn’t publically speak for the life of me. And so, I'm a really, really good public speaker now. People say that's my unique ability, but dude, it took a lot of work, a lot of work for a long time, and me not being good at it for a long time before I could really develop a skillset to where I got better at it then I got more confident in it because I was better at it, and I got better feedback and all those other things. So I think unique ability and skillsets, those are all, you know, learned traits and can be refined in a big way. [0:37:04.7] But it's also a little bit of like what do you like doing, and for me, I just, I love marketing. I love the idea of helping other people and helping people see themselves as more than what maybe they can currently see themselves as. So I don’t know if I totally answered that question, but hopefully.
Jonathan: You thoroughly answered it. So I also heard you - a couple of other things that I want to rap about - you have talked quite a bit about masterminds, and I think masterminds and mentorship kind of go together. So how has mentorship and masterminds played in your growth?
Tim: Both in a big positive way, and a big negative way. Well, I wouldn’t say a negative way as it adversely affected me. I've had bad mentors.
Jonathan: Share the bad mentor story. Let me hear a bad mentor story.
Tim: I'll give you one…
Jonathan: No name, but…
Tim: Yeah. When I first got involved in real estate, in Charleston, South Carolina, started buying real estate, got hooked up with this guy. And you know like, you kind of know, right? [0:38:03.8] You kind of know what your intuition is… that, eh, not doing everything above board, but at the same time, when you're desperate and you're trying to figure this whole thing out and you're looking for somebody to kind of lead you and then see opportunity - or not opportunity - but they see potential, I guess, in you. Sometimes you let some of that bad stuff kind of go to the side, especially when you're early on. And for me, this guy kind of took me under his wing, then like, he'd do stuff like… this is when everybody was getting foreclosed on and all these short sales were going down. People were having to walk away from their houses or renegotiate their loan terms with their lenders, and one of the things this guy would do is he would go to people who were under water on their house and say hey, listen, I'll negotiate a short sale or I'll negotiate a loan modification is what it was called, so you owe $130,000 on your house. It's only worth 100 because the market shifted. They would go in and renegotiate and get the new loan terms at $100,000 at a fixed rate instead of variable and all that stuff. So this guy would go in and say he's going to negotiate a short sale and negotiate a loan modification, and have the people move out of their house in order to save them from foreclosure, right? [0:39:05.0] And then he'd put a tenant in that house and he'd collect all the rent and then just wouldn’t negotiate a short sale or foreclosure, and then they'd, you know, 12 months later, 18 months later after he collected a bunch of rent, didn't pay any of the bills, right and just put all the money in his pocket, he would let it go to foreclosure. And I was like, I gotta get the hell away from this guy, and so got out of that, and stopped working with him. Learned, you know, from mentors, you can learn things that you want that are awesome, right - awesome traits, awesome things you want to take away, awesome things that you want to implement in your own life, ways that you want people to see you as a giver and a lot of those things. And then there's other mentors who are mentors in a way that, this is the kind of guy I don’t want to be like, and they can teach you just as much as the person who you do want to be like. It's just knowing and differentiating and reflecting on those things and the good characteristics and the bad characteristics and being aware of all that stuff. So I had some good mentors, bad mentors early on, mentors I never met before, guys like Jim Rohn, right, who was like one of the foremost thought leaders of personal development for the past 40 years. [0:40:07.9] He passed away I think in 2011 or something, 2010 maybe, but his book - I've got it right here - it's one called Twelve Pillars. This is one of the most influential books I've ever read in my entire life and I read it every year, maybe even twice a year, and I've been doing that for the past, I don't know, almost 10 years. And now I buy it in bulks of 100s at a time and I give it to every single person I come across. Powerful, powerful book and not really about finance, more about just living a quality life and making impact and paying things forward, and really, really good stuff. So, eventually it got into the whole idea, actually through a mutual friend of ours' named Mark Evans - he invited me out to this thing called a mastermind. Right? And he invites me out. Remember 2014 was my biggest year ever. I made like $130,000 that year. First time I ever made six figures. And he invited me out in February of 2015 and you know, I go to his mastermind. [0:41:01.6] It was a group of about 15 people, sitting at a round table discussion-type setting and just… it's amazing the amount of collective brain power and experience in this room, and you know, I'm talking about what I think is a monumental issue in me and my business, and they're like, "Oh, you just need to hire an assistant." I was like, "What?" They're like, "No. Just hire an assistant and that'll eliminate everything that you have going on right now, and then come back here, you know, and we'll talk about whatever your next problem is." And so, I was like, "Wait, what.. what? Like it's gotta be more complicated. No, it's like, "Listen dude - I went through that. I was going through that 4 years ago. I was in the exact same situation. Here's all I did. It made a massive impact." Like, "Here's what I did and I wish I didn't do it." You know, and it's just… they give you insight. You can get it from a couple of different people that you could see as a mentor and then you sit back on the information, and you're like, I like this. I don’t like this. I think this makes sense. I trust this person. And I don’t like where that person is coming from. So, again, it's not just taking everything and taking everything at its face value. [0:42:00.5] It's - you gotta look at it and realize that information, especially today, can be very skewed. There are some people who make, who give insight and mentorship based on stuff that they read about in a book. Right? There's no realistic application that they've ever done. And that's like when people come to me and it's like, "How do I get into apartment buildings? Should I just start buying small apartment buildings and keep on growing? Or do I, you know, come to you and partner up with you and get into bigger stuff right away." I'm like, "Listen, I can't knock doing the small stuff and growing it organically because that's how I did it, right. I didn't do it this way, but I know this is potential that was an opportunity, and so now, you can get involved this way or you can do it organically. I'm good with either one of them. You're going to be wealthy either way, right." And so, you know, going back to the whole mastermind thing, like, I remember sitting in that mastermind. I made 130 grand the year before. He told me to hire an assistant. I was like, "Okay, cool. I can do that, but it's going to cost me like 35-40 grand a year, right, in my area, to hire an assistant." He was like, "Well, I mean, yeah." [0:43:01.4] And I was like, "You know, that's a quarter of my income." And I was like, "Ehhh." And then he goes, "Oh by the way, you gotta join my mastermind for another $30,000 a year or whatever it was." Right? And so, I'm like, "You just took half of my money, you know, that I made last year, like." But he's like, "Listen, dude. It's not $35,000 or $40,000 a year for an assistant. It's about 3 grand a month. And if you can, if you don’t see a return on your investment after 30 or 60 or 90 days, you're really only risking 5-10 grand instead of 40 grand. So why don’t you just try it out? If it doesn’t work, cut ties. You go back to banging your head against the wall and being a solo entrepreneur. Right?" And so I said, "Okay." And so I tried it out. The next 10 months, I made $400,000.
Jonathan: Good god!
Tim: I tripled my income by hiring an assistant. And then, but then, you gotta be careful on this - because then I got, I got so addicted to the power of human capital, right, and leverage that I over hired. And I was like, oh there's a problem? Just hire somebody to do that. Oh - there's another problem? Well, hire somebody to do that. Hire, you know? [0:44:00.2] And then I over hired and you realize pretty quickly that the number 1 reason most businesses go out of business is for lack of cash flow from over hiring. And so I had a really rough 2016, though, and then things just kind of, you know - I learned my lesson and went back up from there. So, 2017 was good. 2018 was great. 2019 is going to be awesome. And you know, the thing about masterminds is you go off to a mastermind and you think I just need to punch through this ceiling and I just need to get take away - great - and then I don’t need to go again. I just need, this is my only problem. The issue is that once you punch through that and you get to the next level, guess what? There's another level of problems right here. So it's important to go to a mastermind that meets, you know, like once a quarter, at least. So that way, you can get the feedback, get the insight, and you excel that much faster, instead of just going to one or two events a year. So, go to one that meets regularly, like the one that you and I are in - not only do we meet several times a year, but we're also having a phone call once a week that is kind of like a mini mastermind, every single week, that even excels it that much faster. [0:45:02.4] So it's, joining a mastermind, I was at a plateau, maybe a little bit of an incline growth and then when I joined a mastermind, I went straight up and that was crazy.
Jonathan: Hockey stick, baby, I love it. I love it. So look, Tim, we're getting close to the end here. Is there anything that maybe you thought we would talk about that we haven't, and maybe you want to bring up right now?
Tim: I mean, let's talk about kids, man. Let's talk about family.
Jonathan: How do you do it, man? With 2500 units, another 600 or 700 under contract about to close - how do you find that harmony in your life because you should just be working and pulling your hair out and going crazy. Why aren't you?
Tim: Well, I have pulled my hair out… [laughter]. No, it's, you know, I was fortunate enough to start in business when I didn't have a family. I had a long-term or I had a long-distance relationship and I could burn the candle at both ends. Right? And I would work until the middle of the night, 3 o'clock in the morning and wake back up. I was excited. I could do, I could balance it out from working hard, not necessarily working smart, and just try to figure this thing out. [0:46:02.9] Once, obviously, you have kids - dude, different animal. Right? And then once you have two kids and you realize there's no time to, you know, hand the baby off to the spouse and then go and just relax or you know, retarget your work, whatever you gotta do, it is a different animal. So I remember, I was sitting right here - I'm at my home office right now - and a couple of years ago, my daughter is like 4 now, about 2 years, year and a half, 2 years ago, and she came up to me and she was tugging on my shirt, this was after dinner one night, and she's tugging on my shirt and I'm sending a text message or answering some email, it was a text message actually. And she's tugging, saying, "Daddy, daddy - come and play with me. Come and play with me" right before bedtime, right. And "Okay. Hang on one second, baby." Sending my text message. "Daddy, daddy. Come on." I was like, "Hey, just go over there. I'll be over there in a minute and I'll come and play." And I finished up my text message and I look over at her and she's playing, like little sweetheart, being super cute, and then I looked down at the message, and I'm like, like this message means nothing. Right? [0:47:02.0] Like this is not an urgent message, not an important message - if I didn't send this message, it probably would take care of itself, this whole what this thing was about. And I was like, but I just told my daughter, whether she realizes it or not at the age of 2-1/2, that this phone is more important than me playing with her before bedtime. And then I went a level deeper, and I'm like, "You do this enough, and eventually you condition your kid, who comes to you for love, who comes to you for support, who comes to you for comfort and safety and all the sudden, you start conditioning them for disappointment, right. And then what happens if you do that long enough? Then they start looking for that comfort and support and that inclusion and safety somewhere else, and that could be drugs. That could be sex. That could be from asshole boyfriends. That could be from you know… dude, like, you're conditioning as the guy, as the man in her life, who is supposed to love her more than anybody else in the entire world, and I'm telling her that a cell phone and a text message is more important than me playing with my little girl. Right? [0:48:11.3] And so it was like, dude… biggest punch in the gut, ever. Right? And massive punch in the gut and I was just like, I felt like absolute crap. And I was like I gotta figure something out here. So I ended up taking the phone and when I got home, put it upstairs, you know, or I just turn it off. I'm pretty good at not even looking at it when I get home now. Because it'll buzz, right. Look - it just went off right now. It starts buzzing. It starts twinkling, the light across the way and like a zombie, you go over to it and you gotta see who is messaging you. Like the same hormones that are released in your brain from cocaine, right, and other addictive substances, are the same things that get released when you see your cell phone blinking. It's crazy the studies that they have done on this stuff. It's dangerous, actually. [0:49:00.0] It's dangerous that we actually give cell phones to kids that are, you know - every other toxic substance you have to be an adult, 18, 21, in order to be able to use those things, and we give these things to our kids. Right? So anyways, what I ended up doing is I started doing a lot of research and trying to learn a little bit more about what people are doing in order to spend more time with family. I went and I remember going to a couple of different other masterminds and asking people what they do and going to my mentors and getting some insight on this stuff. And it was one of those things where I had, I had like a networking event or like a real estate investors association meeting or something like that in the evening and it was like 5 o'clock and I remember looking at my calendar and noticing that I had the time blocked out from 5 to 7 for this event, and I was like, that should be family time. Why don’t I block family time from 5-7? And so that's what I started doing, dude, and like my calendar, from 5 o'clock on, in the evening, the entire night, is blocked off for family time. So I don’t go to networking events. Like I just had somebody who wanted to meet for cocktail hour or happy hour on Monday, two days ago. I said, "I can't; I've got an appointment with my wife and my kids." Right? [0:50:01.1] And so, that has been a massive impact. So, I time block in the evenings and then we implemented - I was at a mastermind and somebody told me they do Friday family fun day with their family, with their kids, and they put out a couple of different ideas and the kids end up picking, you know, do they want to go to the zoo, the museum, the park - it doesn’t have to be anything crazy. You can go to the library. You can go, just, you know, go to Chipotle and have a picnic or just go to the playground - whatever - and the kids love it because they get to pick and they get to say "Friday family fun day, Friday fun day." And it's like a thing in our house. It's one of those traditions that I hope we keep doing for as long as they're with us, and I hope they do it with their kids because it's impactful. I think when you look back at your childhood and stuff, the things that you really remember are those traditions. Right? Holiday traditions or going to the lake house every summer or like, whatever that is, even something as simple as Friday family fun day, and so, now I time block evenings. I time block Fridays. I time block really all weekend. [0:51:00.3] Now, if the kids napping and my wife is working out or something, do I go and hop on the internet, do I hop and answer messages or emails? Absolutely. You know, that definitely happens. I'm not perfect at it by any means, but I'm much more conscious about it than I was before. And there's some people that I've told this to and they're like, dude, I just wish I was in a position in my business where I could do that. I don’t have as many rentals as you do. I don’t have my business, you know, as developed as you do, Tim. And you know what's crazy about it? Is that I've actually become more efficient when I'm at work, because I'm only at work for 25 hours a week now, and so when I'm at work, no nonsense. I don’t do coffee meetings anymore, right. I do quick phone calls, and it's a 15-minute phone call, max. I do not do anything more than a 15-minute phone call, and usually I try not to do any phone calls at all. When I, you know, a lot of people are into the whole, you know, open door policy for managers and leaders and all that kind of stuff -- come on in and let me take my door off the hinges. Dude, I close my door and I put a do not disturb sign on it whenever I'm in my office. I don’t let anybody bother me. I'm there. On Monday mornings, my team can meet me and then I tell them unsubscribe me from every single email. [0:52:01.7] If it's not for me, I do not need to know about it, unless like, even if a building is burning down, I don’t care; tell the insurance agent about it. Don’t tell me about it. So I unsubscribe from everything and I just focus on the activities that are revenue-generating activities, the highest and best use of my time, when I'm at the office. And that's usually being on podcasts, doing marketing, doing some social media, doing my own podcast, being on other people's podcasts, and really, being the captain of the ship for my company. If I'm getting stuck in the day-to-day stuff, ship's not moving forward. Like I need to be directing on which direction we're going, instead of like being involved in minutia, and what's crazy is I get more done in less time because I'm more dedicated, more efficient and more conscious of where I am spending my time. And the other thing is, I have had people come to me that said, "Tim, I want to do more business with you." "Why?" "Because I realize where your priorities are, and a relationship is more important than making a couple of extra bucks, and so how do we do more together? I know you're not ever going to burn me because what we got, our friendship, is going to be more important than you making, you know, extra money or whatever." [0:53:04.2] And so, I actually got more business from it, too, as crazy as that is. Like, it's all counterintuitive. We don’t think it, and it's very scary to do it, but when you do it, it's amazing the way the universe responds.
Jonathan: Bro, I love the idea of calendar blocking and we calendar block for everybody else in our lives and we won't do that for ourselves or our family. I've been doing the same thing, bro. Mornings are for family, so, until like 10 o'clock in the morning, I'm doing my morning routine with the boy and the wife and all that, and on the weekends, you can't even get me. So…
Tim: I love it.
Jonathan: Damn, I'm glad you brought that up. I am so glad you brought that up.
Tim: It is the most powerful thing I've implemented. I try to time block everything now, you know, and I try to batch activities too, you know, take a walk in the woods, try to bring the family, so now you're knocking out the family, you know, checking that box …
Jonathan: You're integrating it.
Tim: …and the fitness box, you know. And you're trying to do a couple of things at once, especially when you're a busy entrepreneur and trying to, you know… we talked about this offline - balance the BS. Right? [0:54:02.7] But there is harmony. Like, you could, you're always going to be leading with one of those pillars in your life, but it doesn’t mean you need to neglect all the other ones. And so, just making sure you're trying to combine some of those activities has helped. Batching activities has helped, and when I say "batching," I mean like answering my emails - try to do it once a day instead of throughout the entire day, you know. I try to batch all my podcasts, like one or two days a week. I was just on a podcast before this. So that way, I don’t have to do it every single day. I can get in the mindset of giving value and then the next day, I can get in the mindset of raising money or you know and reviewing deals or whatever that activity is. So, time blocking, batching activities and trying to combine activities are three things that have helped me in a big way.
Jonathan: Money - that is money, bro. So look, Tim, we have rapped quite a bit. You've shared a ton of value with us. Where can our listeners go to find you? Like, is it your podcast, your website? [0:55:00.0] Just throw everything out there so that they can find you.
Tim: Yeah. Appreciate it, bud. I mean, I'm very active on Facebook, so Facebook is awesome. Hit me up on there and connect with me. I answer all my messages. Shoot me a message. I love connecting with people, and I give a lot of free content on Facebook. I also give a lot of free content on my website, LegacyWealthHoldings.com, and on my podcast, LegacyWealthShow.com And if you're looking for something more formal and if you do want to learn either how to be an active operator and find apartment buildings and actively operate those, or a passive lender and just, you know, what to look for if you are going to invest with passively into somebody else's project - Commercial Empire is my event. CommercialEmpire.com - you'll learn more about it there, and that's more formal technique and strategy on what I do and how I do it. So. Appreciate you having me, dude. I love the value that you're bringing, Jon, and you're a rock star, man. So, you're making a big impact in a lot of people's lives and it's going to pay off in a big way. [0:56:01.2] It's not - you don’t get what you give, right? You get many more times what you give, and not that you're doing it for that - I know you're doing it for the giving, but it's going to be amazing to see how the ripple effect occurs for you over time, man. So, I'm proud of you, and excited for you, and I'm excited for you to be part of the mastermind too.
Jonathan: We gotta talk again. Thank you so much, Tim. It was good having you. And thank you, everybody, for tuning in.
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