It's time to rip the cover off what really works to ditch addiction, depression, anger, anxiety, and all other kinds of human suffering. No, not sobriety. We're talking the F word here, freedom, wheelchair straight from the trenches what we've learned from leaving our own addictions behind and coaching hundreds of others to do the same. And since it's such a heavy topic, we might as well have a good time while we're at it.
(0:34) And welcome back to the alive and free podcast here we get to talk. This is like our life you guys ever seen the movie is up where he's like squirrel, you know, in the middle of the conversation. This is like ADHD, right? There was a while ago, when I was writing the book, I tapped into the flow research collective. Steven Kotler is the guy who wrote the book, The Art of impossible, just collected a whole lot of the science. And he's created this collective around creating flow states, which is basically states where you're in the zone where you're hyper productive, super focused, and all of these other things, right? Nevermind how much caffeine the guy drinks, we'll leave that on its own, we'll leave that on its own. But a lot of their stuff was built around, like creating these habits that eliminate distractions, so that you can be in flow, long stretches of time, with nothing interrupting him, and so on. And what I found was, I did that, and I couldn't write my book, I instead relied on distractions and interruptions and coaching calls and interactions with clients and odd questions that would pop into my brain where I would go looking for answers that would then weave themselves into the tapestry, that is the book that the world now has in front of them, which, you know, many people have found to be tremendously, like, transformative for them just reading the book, you know. And I think that's partly due to the fact that the way that my brain works, and the way that it works most effectively, in creating these things, relies somewhat on being interrupted. But there's a dark side there are times where I'm so focused, that I could go for days without eating or sleeping, or drinking or anything. And Jasmine has to remind me that I, that I need to eat, and then also the, but if someone interrupts me in that time, there's this irritability, like hyperfocus, don't mess with my life, I'm, I'm doing this thing. I've never in my entire life, considered myself ADHD, I've never gone looking at it. Some of the research that I looked at early on seemed to indicate that a lot of it had to do with like upbringing and education, and population density. And there's so many factors in it, it's insane. And so I kind of just stepped it aside. And instead, I found other ways of looking at what I was doing as strengths and learning to play to those, which was absolutely incredible. I'll talk a little bit more about that toward the end. And then I was on the phone with a friend just this last week, then. And she was speaking about ADHD and discovering it in her adult years. And how she realized, wow, this makes so much sense. There is so much similarity between all the people that experience ADHD, that it's like they're a different species, they call them neurodivergent. And on that there is autism spectrum. And then there is ADHD, which ironically, Jeff, as I told you, before, kind of told me that I sounded a little bit autistic in the sense that like, find something and be like, it says the answer. And yet, there was that and so she's talking about neurodivergent, she's talking about these things, and I'm listening to her descriptions going, like, yeah, I operate that way. What's the big deal? And I go, like, yeah, these are just, this is the way I operate, and Jasmine operates differently. And in my brain, I'm listening to her and there's neurodivergent, and there's neurotypical, as if there are only two types of human beings and that, you know, my brain is like, or there's neurodivergent, a neurodivergent B neurodivergent. C, and there is no such thing as neurotypical that the idea of this cookie cutter norm, that there is one way that is the way a human should be is like BS from an industrial era where we make cookie cutter stuff out of factories, and that everybody's trying to put themselves into these molds instead of like, paying attention to the life that they are normal, I think in some ways then becomes defined as who what is typical of most people?
(4:31) Yeah. Which, again, if we looked at all of them, like the laws of success, right people like this, the 72 Irrefutable Laws of Power and the 15 laws of success and the but if you look at all the people that those collectors of data, look at, not a single one of them matches all the criteria, right? You know, if people are making up patterns to impose on these people, instead of really looking at the life in front of them. Yeah, what if the majority is the divergent? Yeah, really, you know, the divergent a or the divergent view? is actually the normal? Yeah, there's that right. Yeah. Or the norm is whoever happens to be in power wants it to be, you know, that's normal. And then the other big things are not, but each ethnic group has a different idea about what normal is. And the value of the blind, the one eyed man is king. But the blind is what's normal.
(5:17) So we're sitting here, and we're having this discussion about ADHD, and I'm telling her about stuff that's going on. She's like, I, you know, I know you don't like labels and whatnot, but You reek of ADHD, I'm like, wow, you can smell it from like a long distance phone call. And she's like, really like this. She said, This feels like one of the most underserved populations, because it is it's being diagnosed left and right. It is. These are people that once it's diagnosed, it's like a terminal disease, just like cancer is or some of these other ones are. And that as a result, it it hampers your capacity to operate. And so I thought, man, let's tackle this on a podcast first. And let's see if we can help that population a little bit. Yeah. I feel strongly about this just especially especially as it relates to ADHD because I have a friend of mine, who refers to him as having ADHD, and in a derogatory shameful way. Yeah. And I hate that. Because there's so many qualities about him, that is just tremendous. Like, he's the guy that you can put up in front of a group of people. You know, like, if your MC had to go to the emergency room, you know, the guy who had all the plans, as you put my buddy up on stage, he could make it work, and nobody would know the difference. But that's a part of his strength because of who he is. Yep. You know, I felt like I would fit into that kit. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
(6:49) And it has Jasmine would be somebody who if you did that, she wouldn't know what to do, right. But if you gave her time to plan, it would be an amazing thing, right? I saw this video. Two days ago, it was one of those Tiktok type deals. But this Mother's like, here's this is my child, and he's difficult and he doesn't like authority. And he doesn't listen well. And he's easily distracted. And then he just goes, this is awesome. My child that has a high pain, pain tolerance, that knows exactly what to say when I'm down. That will never be conquered. He will change the world. You know, but that child in like a typical education system or format would be disregarded. Yeah. And and considered a problem. Yeah. So what I told the lady on the phone was I was like this My issue with the label ADHD is that it is considered a disorder. I don't even think they diagnose add anymore. It's like ADHD is, is the only one that's it. A few different types, which is funny. It's like prescription pills. They don't they don't sell regular strength, they only sell maximum strength. Yeah, and so like, but I said my issue with it is that people are calling it a disorder or they're disabled instead of other abled or ordered differently. Just because my third car garage has like an actual wood floor and gym equipment in it and somebody else's has woodshop stuff, those are ordered very differently. But that doesn't make mine a disorder and his his an at natural order. It's they're just ordered differently. They're different lives. And so I said, I would be okay, if we were saying, Wow, you're exhibiting these symptoms, or these these qualities, then you might be the Explorer, the intrepid explorer type of individual that hunt like that. seeks out new life and new civilizations and boldly goals where no man has gone before.
(8:44) We don't know this. I was trying to make this girl singing in the background. Yeah, whatever. I apologize. Add. The point is, like, if if it were seen like in these traditional cultures, like the Native American cultures, for instance, there's a great book that I read a long time ago called grandfather and how I forget the name is Tom, it might come to me. I can't remember his last name now. But he's a tracker. And he teaches people how to track animals and whatnot. And he learned from a guy that he called grandfather, who was in a scout from an Apache tribe that had escaped sort of white men's notice and lived kind of on its own outside of the reign of the sort of United States Government reservation kind of tactics, right? And so he had grown up being trained as a scout and whatnot. And they had watched him grow up just being a kid. And then there were certain qualities or things that experiences he had or things that he exhibited, where the elders of the tribe looked at him and was like, hmm, this might be a guy that falls down this line of being a scout, which would be a lonely or life. So they put him through some other things. And then they eventually were like, Yep, this is the guy and then that shifted to another type of life where he spent more time doing one thing or another, but it was here as a life, we don't know what it is. So we will nourish that life and observe. And as we see what qualities it exhibits naturally, then we will know better how it will fit into the whole tribe. And that is not the mentality of modern education, which is built on the fabrication system, right. The Industrial Revolution, there's like, the thing that makes people in common is their birth, eight birth date, you know, like, well, because they were born in the same year, they're probably all need to be taught the same thing, right. And, you know, we, we celebrate them, and we like, put them out in batches, you know, dated by timestamp matches, I would be curious if our, like master's degrees and stuff started to have an expiration date on the Best If Used By? Because even like computer science, that's actly.
(10:49) Right, right. And so like, if you're, if you're looking in, in our culture, it's built on this model of like, producing cogs for a society instead of allowing society to benefit from the life that is inside each individual, and allowing each individual to blossom and grow in whatever way that they can best in whatever capacity that naturally fits that to the extent that it's possible, right. I think, when I first heard the term neurodivergent, I just kind of like roll my eyes. I was like, Oh, brother, you know, because I think the context in which I heard it in the guy was using neurodivergent, as, you know, a condemnation. Yeah. I'm not afraid of labels, if they're helpful, you know, if it points to his strength, but like, I think the last thing we need is another victim. You know, out of my own story, when I was in college, actually, you know, I'd been through a lot of stuff in my childhood, but saw counselor for not very long, because it just didn't gel, but he labeled me as codependent. And as soon as I had that label, you know, like, I got all the books, and I read all the books to try to figure out who I was. But with that label, and with those understandings, and all the definitions, it's set who I perceived myself as, for decades, yes, for decades. And, and I never questioned it until I was in another counseling scenario. And the counselor was just like, well, what if you're not codependent? What if you just didn't have any experiences with relationship and the time? That it's just a matter of time before you were something different, which was incredibly freeing. Yeah, because like, in my mind, I was codependent, I was done. And that's just the way it is. That's where it's gonna be. And there's never changed and never growth from that. But but to look at it and be like, well, maybe there's something different going on. And you brought up something last night, which I hadn't thought about, either. Because there's still a part of me, it's like, I don't want to be codependent. Right? You know? And you're like, Well, what if you're just really into deep relationships?
(13:01) Yeah. Like, what if there is zero? What if you just feel deeply with people, right? Love to see them happy, right? Which, which is the same thing for ADHD or any of these other labels or diagnosis is like, what is the other side of that? Yeah. And like, this goes deeper like, because, you know, I've mentioned 12 Step trauma, meaning like, you're in this emotional state, and then someone offers the idea that you're an addict, and then all of a sudden, yep, that's it, right. And now you're that for life. And that was not actually your life, that was somebody else's idea imposed on you. And now you're actually living out their story. Thinking it's your own, and trying to solve their story thinking it's your own. And then this would be considered maybe counseling or therapy, trauma in the sense, and I don't like the term trauma, in the sense of like, an idea that's, that's held, but it goes deeper, even into modern coaching. Right. And I hope this hasn't happened for anybody with who's in my auspices, because I don't have any sense that there's anything wrong with anybody. I do have a sense that some of them are living some really rugged situations, and not not super healthy, you know, but in terms of wrong with them as being nothing but you go into these coaching environments, and if you're not doing things the way the coach says, then there's something wrong with you. And then their projected future is something that you adopt. And then some of these coaches go in and the people who are doing psychedelic psychedelic therapy and stuff, they unwittingly impose their worldview on you. Like they the medicine is the thing and all of a sudden that is and and it's really easy. And it's happened to me where I've sort of imbibed that without realizing that was somebody else's story. And then I don't even believe that, but I just picked it up. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's right then, because I was in a really impressionable state. And so there's a lot of people that are like, No, you'll always be kind of working with the medicine or, you know, you just have to do the work and I'm glad that you're, I want to be with someone who's doing the work like as if there is a work to be done. particularly rather than a life to be lived, or the coaches that are like, Oh, I'll always have a coach, you know, because anybody who doesn't have a coach is somebody who's not progressing as if like, they know what it is that makes life go. And the danger is, with every authority, including me, if you're listening to this, and you're holding me up on some kind of pedestal as an authority, I want you to challenge that, like, sit there and go, like, how many holes can I find and what Bob is saying, and I may come back with a way to fill those holes so that you can be like, Okay, this is useful. But the only metric is whether or not it's actually accurate and useful in your experience of life. And not whether or not what I'm saying is some sacrosanct thing that never gets to be questioned, it needs to be questioned. Because every word that comes out of every human's mouth is nothing more than a sound, it is not the truth, whatsoever. And so this like to go from ADHD, to OCD, to bipolar To date, there are characteristics and strains and things. And most of those are exacerbated by emotional struggles. But there might be within a person, a core quality, that is unique to them that maybe even the world has never seen before, and will never see again, if it never gets a chance to give it to live, to see the light of day, because it's too busy living out other people's stories. If you or someone you know is looking to drop the F bomb of freedom in their life, whether that's from past trauma, depression, anxiety, addiction, or any other host of emotional and personal struggles, but they just don't know how or want some help doing it, head on over to the freedom specialist.com/feel better now, and check out some of the things we've got in store for you, or book a call. So we can look at your unique situation and get you the help that you're looking for.
(16:47) I was talking to young man, two weeks ago, and he had called me and he's like, man, sorry, I've been out of touch yada, yada. I've made a lot of bad decisions. Because I'm just really a mess. Like, are you a mess? And he's like, What do you mean? I'm like, what if this conversation shows that things are right, that everything is in place that you're able to see the things that are helpful in your life and the things that are not? Like what if right now you're the best you've ever been? And because you're able to see these things? What if from here on out, it's completely different. You know, but he was just in his head, like, I've done all these things. And this is who I am. I'm like, really? Are the doctor that came in to me was like, You're a hot mess. Yeah. Is that helpful? Scientific data to prove? You know, and you know, that's, that's a harder one to be like, am I yeah, maybe there's some things that could even make my life better. But if you were to look at my life, it is the best that it has ever been this masterpiece that I'm working on now. is absolutely incredible. And so Oh, you're a hot mess? Are you? Sure?
(17:57) Well, it's it's certainly a junction where you have opportunity to take what's good and make it better. You know, it's, it's full of potential is absolutely full of potential. Yeah. And so when we're looking at this kind of notion of ADHD as a diagnosis, particularly because in this today, I really wanted to take some time to look at it. Yes, there are, like, if you go into some of these Reddit forums, from what, you know, my friend reported, she's like, there are people that post and I swear, it's like, that's, I could have written that it's, they're living it out in another body. Like we think so much the same. And that may just be because you have certain qualities and characteristics. So a while ago, what happened for me because I never got on the strain of diagnoses. And for whatever reason, it's not that I actively distrusted doctors, but I mean, I kind of did from time to time, but I kind of got plugged into the sort of kung fu Chi Gong natural kind of sciences. And then when when I was training in cranial sacral therapy for several years, the biodynamic side of it, and, and working in that field with all the anatomy, stuff, like there was a lot of this, like, the body heals itself, so I never kind of got into diagnoses and whatnot. It wasn't. It wasn't until recently that I recognize that what people describe as panic attacks are things that I was like, oh, yeah, I've had those. I just assumed they were something totally alien, until I finally heard somebody really describe it in detail. And I was like, Oh, wow, shoot, I've had those and that enabled Tucker and I to have the conversation about panic attacks a while ago. But but the the point here is, I, I never got onto that strain. But what I did was in the process of taking all the personality tests and all the things where I was trying to prove that I was amazing. One test that I took was the Colby assessment, and you've taken this one. Yeah. And you took it twice. Yes. And the Kobe assessment is one Kathy Colby. She had been kind of in an accident and like my Autistic Self, I went in deep dived on it and like reverse engineered there. assessment and all this stuff and but she had been, she's trying to find a way to work with her her system. And she couldn't figure out like why she was having such a hard time until she realized that like, people wanted her to operate in a way that was contrary to the best way that she knew how to solve problems. So she developed a way of looking at what she calls cognitive strength. Now cognitive meaning co native meaning born with you. It's not exactly that because when she assesses teens, it's like a rough estimate. And then as you get into the adult years, it's a little bit more solidified in terms of your mode of operation. And she'll say that you this basically doesn't change over life, to which I would say you could change it, but it would take a lot of work, you know, but basically, she's assessing four major facets or ways that people tend to approach problem solving. And the categories are facts and information systems and follow through order and like chaos and risk, and, or experiment, we could say, and then implements or tools and things and spaces. And basically, throughout the assessment, it's only like 36 questions, it's like 60 bucks on her website, Colby KOLB e.com. And it's the Colby a assessment. Some people like the more like in depth ones like Enneagram, and the disc one and the Myers Briggs and stuff, but I'm just this one has been really effective, because it's just four numbers. And that's sufficient for me. And so where you fall on that indicates whether or not that's a way that you start solving a problem. Or that's something that you avoid when solving a problem, or whether that's something that you can manage, really deftly and maintain that, right. And what's nice is it's not telling you what your personality is so much is telling you your natural way of handling life and solving problems, which is typically what we run into when we're talking about people with ADHD. We're asking them to solve a problem. And we don't like the fact that they're not solving it the way we wanted it in the timeframe or whatever else. So if you look at your typical school setting, they want people to be very high and factfinder in facts. So you're doing research projects, and you're going out and you're not just hypothesis would come after data, right? So you got all this research and whatnot. And then there are people that are sort of middle of the road on systems, they will maintain the current system, they're not going to make new systems, they're not going to break the old one, they're gonna like obey the rules. And that's your typical education. Now, some schools like Waldorf, and Montessori and stuff kind of step outside of that. But most of them are like that, well, I'm low on facts, I want the essential facts, which means I will prevent people from giving me too much data or I'll shut down. Tucker, on the other hand, cannot make a decision unless he's had enough facts. So he's pretty high on that one. And so if I haven't given them enough data, he can't figure out how to move forward. So we operate very differently. So I'm like really low on facts. I'm really low on systems. I'll break every rule out there if you haven't noticed. Jasmine, on the other hand, I'm like, three, she's an eight. That is her go to that is the first thing she will do, what's the issue? And she will go and say, okay, cool. Well, let me work backwards from the end, see what processor system needs to be in place, see where it fits on the calendar, and make sure it's all in place? Where I will be like, alright, well, let me just start trying stuff. What do we have on hand that we can solve the problem. And then the next category is factfinder, M M is Quickstart, which has to do with like, experimentation and chaos and risk, Jasmine is a two on that one, which means she will also initially make sure that everyone's going to be safe and eliminate as much risk as possible. I'm a nine, which is like, I'm just gonna start trying stuff. I'm the guy that teaches the boys to jump off the roof, she still makes sure they get their homework done. Or pays the hospital bills.
(23:55) So like when it comes to the two of us, for the longest time, I thought, I'm the only one trying to solve a problem here. She'd come with a problem. And I'd start throwing out ideas. And she would be shooting them down. Like, no, that's not gonna work. Because of this, nothing's gonna work. And I would get upset. And I'd be like, how come I'm the only one trying to find if you want to sit here and pretend like the whole thing is a problem, then fine. And then when I realized this, I was like, Oh, she is solving a problem. She is solving it by trying to either fit it into the calendar or determine if there's anything risky about it, or anything that's going to cause problems later down the road for people. And so when that happened, then it was easy enough, she comes in with a problem. I give her a number of different possibilities. I leave the room, she can shoot them down on her own time. This reminds me a little bit of that YouTube video of it's not about the nail. If you have not seen that, do yourself a favor. It is not about the nail.
(24:45) Yeah, and they're trying to point out differences between men and women, which my dad heard me describing this. He's like, Oh, that's the basic difference between men and women. And I'd be like, you don't understand it at all. Like my dad and I are vastly different at solving problems. Yeah, he will research the heck out of things and Come up with a system and get a system in place, I won't. And he will make a system that can be repeatable so that they can do it again. And he'll make jigs and stuff. And I'll just be like cobbled together this thing that I found from Iraq next door, like Did it work moving on. And what this allowed was to see that every part on the spectrum of each one of those was a strength. And it's just a question of the how you use those strengths. That was really it. And the people were struggling with ADHD, and not all of them necessarily would would score the same on, on, maybe they would on a Kobe assessment, I'd be curious how those overlap, you know, but it's just that, like, you just have a series of qualities. And you might be in situations where the expectation is that you be, you have a different set of qualities. And that's where the frustration is, where you feel like you have to be like everybody else. And you have to play into what everybody else is playing into. I remember when I got the results from this, it was such a relief, because it gave me permission to stop reading the entire book, if I wasn't interested, to start to skim to start set up my day by what am I not going to do, rather than having a to do list because a to do list would just overwhelm the heck out of me. But if I had a clear schedule, and things that I wanted to do, and I could just say, like a couple of things on there, whatever. But I could say, today, I'm not doing this, and I could get something off my plate, I operated better. It allowed me to not prepare for a presentation until like, I was about to give it because every part of my life, it's something that gets woven into everything I do. And if I were to try and lock that down, then I would just change the presentation the day anyway. Yeah, I've always had a love hate relationship with with those kinds of tests, because of some of those very things we're talking about with labels and would like diagnoses, is that they have the potential to limit us. Yes. And it's really a snapshot of what's happening at that moment. Exactly. When you're taking the test. Exactly. But it's not a definition of who you are forever.
(27:02) Yeah, what I use what I tell people is that, that you're right, like when she said on the phone like ADHD, and I was like, Yeah, my take on it is that you are except when you're not, right, you know, you're you, you are attention deficit, you don't have an attention span, and you're hyperactive, except when you can focus on something for hours on end. And then she's like, Look, these are people that are like, they haven't, they don't have another name for it. And so they're just kind of given up and they're underserved. And I go, Well, what if you're not attention deficit? What if you happen to just be a pioneer or an explorer, or who is an innovator or, you know, a weaver, somebody who weaves together these disparate things that the technicians in society, that they are able to create stuff, and then the the people that are like, exceptional at one thing, and you they there's this beautiful, but you can weave it together into something that nobody could do? Because of the way that you and you're like, a jack of all trades, right? You know, because it's not the trade itself, that's of interest. But what is produced by the synthesis of those and that's really significant.
(28:07) Yeah. What if your ability is amazing, like, you have an amazing ability to focus and you have, like, you just had amazing ability to synthesize a lot of different things. Because, you know, all of that, and that's, that's beautiful thing. Yeah, that's compared to oh, I've got ADHD, ADHD, and, you know, however, they're going to defame you in that process, right? And how much of this is parasite induced Right? And how much of this is like how much of the pressure socially to abide by the norms of the group is also parasite induce another question just to you know, keep your mind hoppin, like, fleas. The point of all this is like, question, every narrative you've been given, including your own, I'll end with this. My son, my second son, Yoshi, like the other night. He's 15. He's gone. And he's turning 16 in June, and he is in. This has happened with the older two boys so far. So I'm assuming it'll start to happen with all of them at around this age, where there's a lot of hormonal shifts happening. There's a lot of like, attempt to identify themselves in social hierarchy. And you know, nothing is ever fair to a teenager. Doesn't matter what epic of the world you live in. And, and his penchant for the last little bit has been to take everything that his mom says, or that his brother says, or sometimes what I say are some others, almost like everything is an attack. And so last night, he was on the phone, and he'd been on the phone for a little bit texting his girlfriend, and so my wife is like, okay, yeah, just time to put the phone away. And he kind of got huffy, and he's like, What do you do things like I'm just having a conversation like, well, what are you talking about? Nothing I want to talk about with you. And moms love that. And when it could have been like, I'm just finishing up a conversation can I have like another five minutes, and I just want to finish this piece up, it was immediately a defensive response. So obviously, Jasmine needed to calm down and I got to go talk to him. And as I was talking to him, I said, Look, buddy, you need to question the narrative that you've got about what's going on, including your own narrative about yourself. Like, are people really saying the things they're saying? Because they're attacking you? Or are they like really uncomfortable? Like, you got to question every narrative. If you don't question the narrative, then you're just going to sit there your whole life, reacting to everything as if they're in an attack. And when somebody reacts defensively, your natural approaches to defend yourself from that, and pretty soon you're in a battle with people that weren't at battle with you weren't at work with you. So sort of had to challenge him that way. Not because he's dumb, but because we get sucked into our own narrative. And unfortunately, when that narrative is endorsed by an acronym, or an authoritative seal, or a diagnosis, by somebody who really doesn't understand the human condition any better than anybody else on the planet, then you can buy that as if it's reality, just like you can buy your memories as if they're reality when they're not.
(31:10) There's a there's an element here, but the trying to suss out, it's like if if the label if the test if the narrative doesn't invite you to more or better than you really got to challenge it or throw it away. And buy more or better, I would say, what we're talking about is the only thing that I've been interested in from the beginning the quality of your life experience. And so whether that's if it's a long term quality, cool, but if you want short term quality, there's that too. But if it's not inviting you to more or better and not insensitive, like, Well, you're a better person. You can't be a better person. You can only be the life that you are like you're already a person, how are you going to be a better person? People so busy trying to be special special comes from the same word that species come from, you're trying to be a different species. I'm sorry, to go from Homo sapien to none of this species has not happened in your lifetime. Maybe more or bonus. Yeah, you know, yeah. But if it improves the quality of your experience of life, in a way that you appreciate, then that that if it's not doing that, then question the narrative question what I've said question what every authority have said, not because we're dumb, we found things that would have worked for us, but we are not you. And there is no normal, right? So take that and run with it.
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