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(0:34) All right, welcome back, folks to the alive and free podcast. Our book club now moves on to adventure number seven, known as the Rorschach conundrum, those of you who don't know who Rorschach is, it’s okay. Herman Rorschach. He developed a personality test with ink blots, hence the cover of the book, there's an ink blot behind the guy, it is not a fart cloud. Unless that's what you see, which he would be more than happy to accept as part of his nice one, Jasmine, very, very nice. So in this chapter, we kind of dive into, you know, kind of a, a, this is where we go to ancient Greece, this is where I was looking particularly at, where did everything kind of go off the rails? Right? And so from there, like, we take it. So those of you who have the book, obviously, you've read all the stories about Plato and everything else, what sort of stood out to you in this dialogue? Or what questions might you have or things like that? I just want to say that I had to live with Bob, while he was writing this book. And Plato is like my new Arch Enemy. While Bob was going through this and studying this, it was, I don't know months long, where he was just ranting about Plato. And everything that Plato brought, all the stuff in, it was, it was some pretty deep stuff. So pay attention to what he says about Plato, because I had to live through all that.
(2:03) Do it for my wife, folks, do it for my wife. And there are some great things that Plato definitely contributed to the Western tradition, at least there's millions of people that would argue for that. I am not in a position to tell you whether they're great or not, but it has definitely fueled a lot of Western civilization. And there's some things that snuck in under the hood with all the other stuff that he sent along that. I think there's been I mean, Jeff, you've studied a lot of the philosophical side of things. And there's a lot of people that argue against him anyway, right? That, that look at the things that he's offered, and there's arguments against him, it's just that he kind of set the tone, because his works survived one and were readable, too. He sort of set the tone for what the conversation was about. And when somebody makes the rules of the game, sometimes we forget that like, what if those rules aren't the best rules? And so I think that's where this comes in. It's not that his opinions weren't helpful. It's just that they came from a certain might worldview that people didn't like, step outside of it for a second and go, Wait a second, what if there's a totally different way to look at this until much later, after all of those ideas have taken root and become sort of a public? Or a common way of thinking? Is that Is that fair enough to Yeah, okay.
(3:16) I think there's been several times I've just been surprised, surprised, surprised in the last couple of years, you know, like learning that, like with Freud, like he didn't really use any kind of scientific, anything to say what he said there was no testing agreement, that kind of thing. But like with this chapter would talk about Plato that he basically says, I believe what I believe, because I believe it. Yeah. And it's most convenient for me to do that. So the whole idea of confirmation bias, which is the basis of so much of where we get our modern thought, is based on this guy's opinion, and because he liked it. Yeah. It seems ridiculous to me.
(3:49) It's, it's funny, because it doesn't you have to be, I don't know, I was reading it. I'm like, did he just say what I thought he said, you know, because he stuck it in Socrates mouth first. So he doesn't actually get to be like, me, my teacher said it, which we don't have any evidence that he did or didn't say it, it might be something that he said it might not. But basically, what we're reading with all the Platonic dialogues is not what Socrates said. But what Plato recorded of what Socrates said and how Plato made sense of what Socrates said or used it for his own purposes, which he was brilliant enough to do that sometimes do and have Socrates say stupid things, or like not helpful things in order to get around to another point. And so in this case, the this is Socrates deathbed like thing where he's getting this is like this grandiose scene, and he's, he's gonna drink the poison hemlock. And in the middle of it, they're having a philosophical conversation because that's usually what happens on a person's deathbed. I remember when my grandpa died, I got a phone call. Not from my grandpa, after the fact. Nobody was having philosophical arguments. So this is this is fabricated as a scene. So to speak, although, you know, if Socrates was what he was, I don't know if he was lucid at all. And since it was a poisoning, I imagined that there could have been this kind of thing. So here he is. And in the middle of this dialogue there they're concerned about, I don't remember the exact topic in question. But he says, Look, I just want let's not like poopoo, he had just been finished telling people how the senses are not reliable. And then they're like, Oh, how can we trust anything then? And he's like, Well, hold on, let's back up. Let's not just like throw thought out the window whatsoever. Like, it's our only thing that we can hold on to. And so what I do is I find the thing that makes the most sense, basically. And then anything that I see that agrees with it, I keep and anything that I see that disagrees with it, I don't keep, which sounds a lot like basically a religious tenant, of sorts. But it's a philosophical standpoint. And I was reading that going, like, did he just say what I think he just said? Did he just say like, No, I think this makes sense. So if you bring any evidence to the contrary, I don't buy it, I won't accept that, in my court of opinion. I was like, Wait a second. That's not how science works. But science, empirical science kind of came from Aristotle, which was one of Plato's students, right? Somewhat in response to this or in reaction to this. But his opinion on all of these things was this that like thought was supreme, that there's some invisible world out there, that is the truth, and everything else in here is distorted. And the only way to know the truth is through reason, rationale, logic. And to that, I just go well, yeah, but all of your thoughts are rooted in what. So here's where we go, the brain is not in contact with the outside world at all. It is only in contact with that outside world, as as far as we can tell, mediated through the lens of the body. So every individual body is giving each individual brain information. And depending on how that body reacts, the brain then has thoughts and feelings about it. And most of the people out there that are trying to teach people how to manage their emotions. Often they're going like, well, you change your thought, and then you'll change the feeling. But they that's halfway down the train already. What what I work with people on is how do we change the body's instinctive reaction to the environment so that the basic building blocks of thought are different, and then the thoughts just become different. So it is helpful to reframe thoughts, but I want to D frame thoughts speech. And this was one where I'm like, Yeah, but if Plato were walking down the road, he wouldn't just close his I'd be like, Well, my eyes are unreliable. So I'll just close them and, and I'll wander to the store via thought alone. That's make sense. It's more rational that I should walk 30 paces to the right and then straight on to the the left or to the right till morning, straight on till morning or something. And he wouldn't do that he would keep his eyes open. And so that's where I was like, Wow, this right here was the feels like a turning point, that somehow or other early on in because most of Western thought was pretty much Christian oriented. After like Constantine and whatnot like it, it subsumed grape culture, and took in all that influence. But it was like Christians that went forward that way. And so the idea of people, denigrating the body as this negative thing as this, this evil shell that we're on are this corrupt thing that started to happen later on in Christianity, like Jesus wasn't about that at all. Like, in his time, the body was the only place that God could manifest. Because there wasn't really an afterlife. It was this life, which is why resurrection was such a big thing. So Plato comes in, and he's like, No, there's another world. And this world is the one we're trying to escape. And so like that idea that the body is negative, that's where I was like, holy cow. If we just take that down the line, then I see all these psychologists and all these people that are trying to resolve emotional struggles and mental struggles, through thought alone, just like Plato and Socrates possibly, and others would have instead of going well and good, don't get me wrong. Plato was a wrestler, he was he was physically fit, like in Greece, they did a lot of things like this. Yeah, that was Plato was his nickname. Yeah, Plato was his he was Aristotelis was or however you say that an actual Greek, but Plato just means like, it means it means broad shoulders, it means broad shoulders, you know, so. So if you have platonic love, you have broad shouldered love, you can carry a lot. Some people need to have less Plato love. And so like, he was active, physically active, and they and many schools of thought, you know more about this, Jeff than than I do in terms of the schools of thought like the Epicureans and the others, you know, like they were very into taking care of the body and they weren't like just frivolous and whatnot. They took care of themselves quite well. And maybe by force, maybe society required it in some way, shape or form. They had to do war they had to do so time in the service and things like that, but you The here was an instance where even though he's taking care of his body, and it is some sense a source of pleasure, it for him was like, that's the problem, the body is the problem, the world is the problem. And that was Plato's take on it. And that's sort of influenced the whole of psychology. So people called Plato, the first psychologist, actually. And, you know, talking through problems this way, and that was where I feel like everything went south was restricting the resolution of bodily stuff to the mind alone, when current science says 90% of the serotonin produced in your body is produced in your gut. So Lee and I were talking about this today, like, why is it that a portrait of a person is just from the shoulders up? There Plato up, when the reality is their moods, even their personalities can be altered by the microbiome of their gut, maybe we ought to take pictures of people's bellies, and then we would know who they are much better than the fake faces they put on in church. I'm trying to hide my belly.
(11:00) Yeah, we would definitely get a lot of comments about Dad Bod from my kids. But like, that's fascinating that a person is what a person is, is restricted to what is above the the shoulders, what is above the body, and that I felt was like the big turn in, in psychology. And so you know, I made the case for it in here. I'm sure there are other people that would argue differently. But that said, there was another person, though, across the globe who thought differently, he was dealing with the same kind of problem, the world is off, there's something wrong with the world. And that's when I introduced as said, in the book, but it's his name was Gautama Siddhartha said for short, and he came to be known as the Buddha. And his issue was human suffering like this is there's something wrong with the world. And then he goes off, and he finds his own solution. And then a little bit later, someone comes to him, and he, they want him to solve all the problems, and he tells him essentially, well, the problem that you have is that you think all of this is a problem, in the first place, that you've already pre judged the whole situation and saying, it shouldn't be functioning this way. This is where I raised the question of, like, so many of us are sitting here, judging that the world is wrong, that there's something wrong with the world or something wrong with ourselves. And that very judgement is creating a problem in the cells, which we talked about in the next adventure with the human effect, right. But that very judgment is part of the issue. And, and so here, he's saying, No, your issue is that you've, you've decided that it's all bad in the first place, you get rid of that judgment. And Sadhguru, one time I heard him say, he said, If you really believed that, God, that everything that that is happening to you is God's will for you that it's for your benefit, then you would never be unhappy in your life. And then he looked around, and he's like, obviously, you don't believe that, because you're sitting here miserable. And that's a real that's, that was a slap in the face for me to be honest. Because it was also indicative of the kind of fake faith I lacked. In a big way.
(13:11) It's interesting, like, said, you know, like, comes from this very wealthy family, and has to literally just, almost just drop everything and walk away. I think stories of St. Francis of Assisi is the same type of deal like he's up in front of church, and completely disrobed. And denounces his family and his wealth and all that, to make his pursuit. Like, like to make these leaps, we almost have to step away, or thoroughly question everything. You know, you do that a little bit in the last chapter, but, you know, even questioning Plato, you know, and now, you know, as Sid makes his journey and talks to this farmer, as you talk in this chapter, like, he's asking the farmer to stop, wait, what he knows that all these things that think that the farmer thinks makes him happy, you know, all that other stuff, and then come to the conclusion that he does. Yeah,
(14:06) I think that there's a level of, I mean, people think that I'm sort of irreverent in some ways, like, I'll question the words of Jesus, and question how useful they are sometimes or question the words of the Buddha or question the words of, of Lao Tzu or any of these great thinker, Plato and stuff. And like if I had him in the room, you know, maybe the conversation would go a different way. And maybe the way they spoke about it was useful at the times that they were in two because everything's in context. But the ability to question do we cover that in this chapter? We're talking about my my college class and like, the impetus to like really question what's on there and really see if it's valuable, is that's what sent me on this journey. Like if I hadn't been willing to question the status quo, about what everybody told me however much authority they had about what my condition was. Then the things that I ended up finding out would if they had happened, they wouldn't have In a very different way. But, you know, I think I would have ended up resigned to a life of being an addict. And, you know, just the feel good smiles inside of a really depressing room once a week or twice a week sometimes or however often. I mean, I don't know how long I would have lasted. My personality is one that I might have ended my life. I don't know. But the but the ability to question that, like, I don't, I don't hold back. And what's interesting is that maybe a Jewish trait. The old the Jewish Bible, you know, Isaiah, he's like, Come let us reason together. That's the God that wrestled with Jacob. That's the That's the God that was like, like, in physical combat with Jacob. It wasn't like, Jacob broke his hip in the process. It wasn't like, Well, God, just like, spit out a word and my hip broke. It was like, they really wrestled. And so like, that was that's the Jewish God show up and argue, show up and meet the text where it's at and question it and ask it and like, challenge it. And you know, Gideon was there like, God tells him to do something. And he's like, I'm not sure that's a possibility. You need to show me that you're on my side and boom, I want do on one side of the I want do on the fleece and not on the ground. And then the next day, the opposite. And like, that may be just a Jewish trait. You can think the Jews for my intrepid questions.
(16:24) Okay, well, in that spirit, yeah. Like, I this was definitely a challenging chapter for me, I think, with the Buddhism, like, just as far as this is the 84th thing, right? Yeah. This in this chapter. Yeah. Yeah. So the farmer that comes to him, and he's like, I have all these problems. And the Buddha's like, I can't help you. But I can help you with the problem that's really causing all the other issues. Yeah. Yeah. So it like, it seems like there just isn't a place in this view for sin, or redemption, or mistakes, you know, or things not being the way that they should be? Would you say that that's true?
(17:06) I don't know. Like, what is a sin to you. So for instance, like, this is an episode that you'll you guys are here later. But there's a book that Lee and I just read, where we speak of like the internal world, the invisible world, it's literally an invisible world underneath the skin, where there are parasites that live on, like, only 10% of your cells are human. And there is an invisible world of colonies of parasites that all have like a hive mind, just based on their organism. And those hive minds, when their living environment gets threatened. They hijack motor systems, thoughts, thinking systems, feelings, systems, emotional centers, serotonin pathways, like you name it, and they create within the host, a super organism, like a human or an animal, a totally different experience of life. And in that sense, we might say, there is a battle being waged, and there is some negative influence toward human life. Because if the wages of sin is death, and a parasite is that which is trying to decay a human body, well, it's totally alive, then in that sense, there is space to say there is something out there, and I don't know what's powering those parasites, any more than I know what's powering that. So on that level, I think it's helpful I like I find it useful to tick speak in terms of like some sort of like, there's human human cells or human DNA and this other thing, and I can say, there is some sort of war being waged in that regard. And that when I'm not on point with my physical care, those things take over. And then I end up doing addictive behaviors, and I end up being emotional and whatnot. And if the ancients didn't have a microscope, and couldn't see parasites, but they could tell very clearly, that some other spirit had taken over a body, then all we have right now is a maybe scientific language to talk about the same phenomenon that people have been talking about for millennia. And in that, since I think we could say there is sin. I don't think like for me personally, labeling sin as specific actions or something doesn't isn't useful, because there's always an exception to those rules, but labeling it as a state, like a person could be in a state of sin, meaning headed toward death as assured toward life. If that's the language that's useful for person, I think there's a place for that, I really do. Okay. If you or someone you know, is looking to drop the F bomb of freedom in their life, whether that's from past trauma, depression, anxiety, addiction, or any other host of emotional and personal struggles, but they just don't know how or want some help doing it, head on over to the freedom specialist.com/feel better now, and check out some of the things we've got in store for you or book a call so we can look at your unique situation and get you the help that you're looking for.
(19:48) Yeah, I mean, I guess for me, I just think of like, yeah, like, like, even tragedy, or, you know, like, child abuse or things like that. And like, it seems like So, with that 84th problem or like, it's like, is the problem really that you think this is a problem? Like, for me, my instinct, at least is to say like, no, like, some of these things that happen to people or that I see happen is like, yeah, that that is a problem that shouldn't have happened to you like, oh, but that's something that I don't think any of us are equipped to say, okay, that a human as a, as a tiny speck on a on a dust might have a planet that's like hurtling around a sun on the edge of some galaxy in a universe that like, sneezes out galaxies, like, it's nobody's business.
(20:37) I mean, that's not my worldview. But well, I mean, just in terms of what we have, in terms of scientific, like, we are tiny beings on a tiny planet, and that to say that we know what is right or wrong. And what should or shouldn't be the case, I don't feel like any human is in a position to make that statement. They might believe that that's totally cool. But to say that we know is a large leap to me, like the belief might be there. That said, even in Christian scripture, which is one I'm more familiar with. In the beginning, there's like a tree, there's like a garden. And in that garden is placed a devil, or some sort of, depending on who's interpreting the story, and who's reading the story, some sort of character that's leading mankind to sin, or temptation or whatnot, who put him there, and to say, so to say that temptation shouldn't exist, or that all the wars shouldn't have happened. When we're not the ones at the top, that's laying the plan and whatnot, I would just like step back and go, like, maybe I'm not the judge of the quick and the dead. And maybe me assuming the role of Judge, instead of abiding by the words that Jesus later said, which is Judge not that you be not judged. Like, instead of that, like, too many times in my life, I've taken the role of blame. And in that spot, I have suffered, because I blame because all the thoughts that I think, of course, through my body, and then I suffer the judgment that I'm trying to pass on to other people. So in that sense, I think that there is a very real application for this Buddhist view that I think would align with, perhaps, maybe not all, I don't know, but some of the things that Jesus was saying, which is, would you just leave the judgment to the actual judge, and just assume that everything's happening for your good? And do the best you can? Out of that land? I mean, I guess I just think of get like, think, like terrible tragedies, you but to whom, to my family, you know, to? It's not a terrible tragedy, the people that want your family dead? Sure, right. Until, like, if you look at the history of moral systems, not the history of moral systems that fit the criteria that we make up about moral systems, but the history of like, how different societies actually create moral systems? Because it's a wonderful question, but like, just about like, okay, child sacrifice doesn't happen that often. But it does happen. In some society, it has happened in human history in some societies. Yeah,
(23:02) I mean, some people, well, ya know, how it has been like a major tenant of some societies. Not very many, but some. So there are certain human behaviors that it seems like as a collective, they're generally avoided, but they're not universally avoided. So when we say, well, it just feels like that shouldn't be the case. Like we're operating from a very limited sense about what is or is not correct. And you look at that, and you go, okay, cool. Well, then, I'm saying, This just feels intuitive and long, intuitively wrong. To which point I would say, Well, where did that intuition come from? And we want to say it comes from some other higher source. But I can't tell you the number of times that I've had an intuition about something and been wrong about it, as well as the intuitions and been right. And then and so like, it's a very, like, suspect thing for me.
(23:52) But would you I mean, would you even would you say that about something like pedophilia, or something like that. It's just a relative, I have to I had, there was a point where I was like, if, if there is a God, and he doesn't want something to happen, I think he would do something about it. And he wouldn't allow it. If he really didn't want it to happen, then he would, he wouldn't allow it to happen, which suggests that everything that's happening on the planet right now, is fine by him. He may prefer that humans operate a certain way. But maybe he wants humans to have the ability to have those experiences, which means that maybe we're making more of out of out of our experiences than we think they are. But I had to step back and be like, because I had tons of judgments about things like that. I mean, lots of judgments about rich people I had so many and and that's not even like, close, you know, there's not even a stand like that. I mean, maybe gluttony depending on who you're talking to. But like, I had all kinds of judgments and people and to think back through that situation, and go, if there is a God, and I really believe that he knows what he's doing. And he's allowing this to happen, then my job is to just do my best. And if I'm good gonna really mess up and do something he doesn't want me to do, he'll probably stop it. He might stop, he, you know, he definitely did a flood. You know, he stopped a few things in the past, according to the records. And so that was that was a really challenging thing for me to look at, though, to say like all the murders that are happening at this very moment, they're good by him. Which raises the question of like, what kind of God Do you believe in? Which is why so many people leave religion? But I don't think that that's the answer to that question.
(25:27) And is that even what we're talking about in this in this story here? Isn't the Buddha saying to this farmer, is that you get to choose what makes you miserable. And what makes you doesn't get us at first thing? Yeah, the fourth problem is that you believe you shouldn't have any of the problems. So like, the other day, I'm driving along, and I blew a tire and a fifth wheel trailer that I have. And I sat there and I had this moment of like, this is a horrible day. I was like, Well, is it a horrible day? Or is it just a blown tire? It's not anything, but I get to make out of it. What I want to, you know, isn't that what Sid is saying to the farmer? Yeah. I mean, it's essentially the same thing I'm not making I'm not saying this tire is evil, no, or good. But you are saying it's negative toward you, which is a similar kind of judgment, or it just happened? Yeah. And for me, like I didn't, it didn't ruin my day. It just happened. And I chose to look at it that way. Yeah. You know, there was no bigger plan against me, there's no like, everything work. I mean, I could go there. And I can start to list all the things that are against me. And this tire is just another example of something against me, or it could just be a blown tire.
(26:44) Let's like I used to actually think I had committed some sort of moral failure when I didn't get my blood pressure, right on the dengue blood pressure cuffs in the in the supermarkets. Because it was just like, I felt like there was some correlation between if my circumstances don't match a certain ideal, then there's a moral failing in me, which led down a lot of roads. And he's suggesting this from a personal suffering standpoint, I think it's important to note that Buddhism is not a religion was not created as a religion. It was he was a Brahmin. So it was within the context of that Brahmin religion in that caste system, that he was looking at human suffering only and his own suffering. And he found this sort of middle way. And out of that created practices and Brotherhood's and whatnot, that still adopted a lot of the religion context that he was in. But his was an eminently, it's the only religion that doesn't have a cosmology, like, this is how the earth started. It's just like, the fact of the matter, as humans are suffering. And here's the way out. And so it's a very, it's sort of like a practical approach to living. And it's become a religion in many ways where people will convert to Buddhism. But in his case, it didn't start that way. Neither did Christianity start necessarily as a separate religion. He was Jesus was a Jew. And yeah, major challenges to the, the the current hegemony, but but still, he was a Jew. And so in this case, he's, he's speaking in constantly, practically, right? That you get to choose Yes. But it was the judgment of something as bad. And sin is, in some ways, very relevant, because that is a judgment of something as evil, something to be avoided. But I can say that arsenic is something that will lead to death, and I don't have to have a massive emotional response or aversion to it. I can just be like, well, that's not useful.
(28:35) Yeah, that that insight, I think, has been just really personally helpful to me. And and yeah, like thinking of sin as something more like missing the more mark or something more, like, leading away from life? Yeah, you know, and it's like, it's a much more, it's like, okay, cool. So I'm moving away from life. Is it helpful to get really mad about that? Or to, you know, freak out about that? Or is it helpful to just yeah, you know, keep, you know, change my course or whatever. So that that insight, I think does is really helpful. Yeah.
(29:09) And to use it like a diagnosis in that respect in that regard. I mean, if you think about it from even the Garden of Eden story, right? You can eat if any of these trees, this one is sort of poisonous to you, right? Don't either this one, or you're gonna die, basically. And they did. And so Okay, cool. Well, you did that. Now we've got some other things we got to put in place, because well, now you're in this state. That is because you just didn't pay attention to the thing, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a big emotional conundrum. It's just like unders. Understanding the road signs helps you drive better. If you're in England, you better know that they drive on the other side of the road. There's a great joke that Sadhguru tells about Shankar on Pillai which is his like made up dude. shrunken on is a first name in one area of India, a common first name and then like Pillai is a common last name in another area of India. They would never be seem together. So he's got this fake character who's driving down the interstate one day and he's driving home, and his wife calls him while he's on the way home. And she's like, Honey, dare you just be careful, I know you drive down this freeway, there's some idiot that's driving the wrong way down the freeway, he's like one idiot, everyone's driving the wrong way.
(30:25) Anyway, like to use awareness of a situation as to whether or not it's conducive to your own life is useful. To then on top of that layer it with this shouldn't be the case is arguing with life, that already is the case. And so that's, I think, the Buddha's invitation. And that's where I think Plato got it wrong, was to argue with it. And to start to add these, like extra labels on top of it. You go, you go on in this chapter to talk about the way that we make ourselves miserable, or cause sickness or disease. When you talk about the Rorschach conundrum, and the doctors ability to predict cancer outcomes. You want to talk about that a little bit. Yeah. So in keeping with this very same thing people make how many people have you heard that are like, oh, man, I'm worried sick about this. And, or how many children have you watched, who are like, so upset that they lost their favorite toy that they start exhibiting symptoms of somebody who has their nose starts running, they're crying, they have a stomach ache, they start to cough because they can't breathe, right. And they all the symptoms of a cold show up, even they start to heat up, right, they start to spike some kind of fever, like this thought itself is some sort of viral invader. And that's what happens inside the body. And so in the Caribbean experience, you have Mr. Right, that's his last name. And we go into we talked a little bit more about it, and then in the next adventure, but his story is essentially, like he has this terminal cancer, he only has a couple of weeks to live, there's an experimental drug he manages to get on, they find the drug is bad. And he's the only one that gets better. Because he was so believed in it, that his mind had created the situation to where his body got rid of like grapefruit sized tumors, and like his chest was leaking fluid that was all gone within like 10 days. And then he's discharged completely cancer free lives for a while and then sees a newspaper article that says, oh, all the tests fail. And then all of a sudden, within like a short amount of time, he's back in the hospital with the same cancers, the same tumor, everything else. So the doctor does some quack medicine, injection with sterile water, makes him believe he's got an even more potent dose. And again, same thing happens, all the tumors go away, everything's fine until there was a final news article that said, Sorry, this is actually hit this, this drug doesn't work at all. It's a horrible drug. And then he came in and he died like within a week later, or some short amount of time later. And that's just the there's numerous numerous studies 1000s upon 1000s of studies, and like the Institute of Noetic, sciences, and a lot of these others that are linking mental actions to biological states. And when those mental actions are sustained, then the biological state becomes a muscle memory or tissue memory or something like that. And then that can create illness. That goes both ways, though. And we talked about that in the next chapter. But it really is a fascinating like approach. So when we're dealing with emotional problems, mental issues, bring that up. I went physical here, just so that we could really pin down that this is a biological phenomenon, not just like, some woowoo positive thinking kind of Tony Robbins coach, like know, your thoughts, create your reality, and whatnot, which I do think dovetails into the question about what faith might be. Which, if you consider it just from the standpoint of focus on unwavering focus upon an object, then as if, if that's where your faith is, your faith is in that you have cancer, your faith is in that you have depression, your faith is in that you that Satan is after you instead of faith in Christ or something like that. Where you put your focus is where your body creates a reality. And so it does dovetail both into the religious question. And I don't think that's a challenge to dump the religion. But I actually think that there's some really beautiful, intelligent, wise things that whoever piece these together has created as like pointers to the very biological phenomena that are going on to resolve a lot of people spiritual woes, emotional, and then also physical ones, as well. And that's all inside of this chapter. And then the Rorschach conundrum is just Mr. Wright's story came about because he was one of several patients who had been tested for Rorschach off and had a personality test done in that way. And it was based on his personality that he was pegged as somebody who would have, like he was singled out as somebody who was difficult to predict whether their cancer would Go quickly or not just based on the personality. And so and we talked about that with Quincy story in this chapter too, and how it was like the people who are too busy trying to like, put on a good face in the world and do all the right things, that those are the people that tend to have the faster growing cancers, of which, you know, he went back and forth pretty quickly. So, moral of the story, right, you either are really good with who you are, and you love everything about yourself, and you're not judging yourself as bad, and worthless and disappointing and unworthy. You just love the being that you are, and you assume that God did a great job on you, or the creator, or whatever it is, or you're on the back end of it. And you're totally neurotic, and you know that you're messed up, but you don't give a rip, those people tend to have the slow grind cancers, the sociopaths and everybody else in the middle, the neurotic ones that are trying to keep up appearances, those tend to be the people that suffer the most from, from illnesses. And it was also seen in tuberculosis patients as well, that that was the case. So finishing up our discussion on this chapter, essentially, like what we're looking at is that the way that you think does influence your cells, and I think we will talk about more about that in the next chapter, they does influence how your body acts. And so it's not something to be discounted. But I will say that it is easier to retrain your thoughts, when you're using the body differently, and engaging with the body than trying to do it by thought alone, which is where the entire psychology has been for a long time the industry has been to the point where right now, they are actually starting to abandon that. And they're starting to move toward the sort of sacred sacraments, various old traditions and tribal you know, like psilocybin and he Boga and an ayahuasca and organize the beer that the Greeks used to use and, and all of these different sacraments in order to create somatic states and conscious states altered states of consciousness to start to change people's psychological suffering, because there's a realization that just the mind alone, just thinking through the problem isn't getting us anywhere. And I think that's the end of the experiment that Plato started, which is no no reason alone will do it. Reason is one state of consciousness is very useful. There are a great many more states of consciousness, and those tend to be the ones that people suffering.
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