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Therapy has helped a lot of people in the world. But it can’t help everyone. And in fact, it may not be the best approach to solve mental health problems.

For example, today’s guest, Ace Jaysayer, is a therapist himself. But after an earth-shattering divorce, he slowly realized the modern form of therapy isn’t too effective.

He first used his skills on himself for a year. When that didn’t work, he found the best therapist in the world for him. But that didn’t work either.

As he was on the brink of suicice, he discovered the Freedom Specialist and came to a retreat. Within two days, 98% of his trauma vanished.

In this episode, Ace shares his story, why modern therapy isn’t as effective as it could be, and how you can overcome your suffering (even when therapy didn’t work for you).

Listen now.

Show Highlights Include

  • Why mental health in America is declining despite the stigma around therapy vanishing (7:35)
  • The weird way even the best, good-hearted therapists can’t help all their clients overcome their problems (9:20)
  • How an earth-shattering divorce led this top therapist on the brink of depression to a Freedom Specialist retreat where he conquered his suffering in 2 days (and how you can conquer suffering too) (16:02)
  • Why therapy couldn't help a professional therapist who knows how to find the best therapist for himself (19:03)
  • The “thoughts as a byproduct” strategy shift which how the Freedom Specialist retreats can help you conquer your trauma when therapy can’t (22:29)
  • Why working with the body is a more effective way to handle mental health issues than working with the thoughts (23:14)
  • How to get rid of your trauma in as little as two days (even if you’ve spent years in therapy) (24:10)

If you want to radically change how much control you have over your emotions in as little as 20 days, you can go to https://thefreedomspecialist.com/feelbetternow and sign up for the Choose Your Own Emotion course.

If you or somebody you know is looking to drop the ‘F’ Bomb of freedom in your life and break free from addiction, depression, anxiety or anything that’s making you feel flat-out stuck, head over to https://thefreedomspecialist.com/ and book a call where we can look at your unique situation and give you the roadmap you’ve been missing.

If you’d like to buy a copy of my book, Is That Even Possible?: The Nuts and Bolts of Energy Healing for the Curious, Wary, and Totally Bewildered, you can find it on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/That-Even-Possible-Healing-Bewildered/dp/1512336041

Read Full Transcript

It's time to rip the cover off what really works to ditch addiction, depression, anger, anxiety, and all other kinds of human suffering. No, not sobriety. We're talking the F word here. Freedom. We'll share straight from the trenches what we've learned from leaving our own addictions behind and coaching hundreds of others to do the same. And since it's such a heavy topic, we might as well have a good time while we're at it.

(00:35): And welcome back to the live and Free podcast. Today I have with me an expert, so to speak. Since the beginning I have been offering people help with things that essentially the psychology industry and the therapy industry, counseling industry and so on and so forth, has had somewhat of a monopoly on. And I've been helping 'em with things that aren't just like, Oh, I'm a life coach. I'm here to help you and your business. I've been diving into the things that I struggled with, things like addiction, things like depression, things like anxiety, things like suicidal ideation and drug abuse and so on and so forth. And I was taking my life and I was putting it out. I've been putting it out there for other people and sharing with them the things that have worked for me. A very practical, kind of known nonsense, down to earth approach.

(01:20): And it's very radically different than what the professionals were used to. And in the beginning I got a ton of pushback from these professionals threatening to sue me for being unlicensed and all these things. Even though I wasn't claiming to be a professional, I wasn't claiming anything of the things that they did and I was well within all the legal boundaries of the things that I was doing, they often would use their language, their professional language, and constantly ask me like, Well, where were you certified? Where were you trained in all these other things? And even though I have had tons of training, which my current guests can attest to over the course of my lifetime and am certified in a number of different things, I never really claimed them because I'm not interested in people trusting me because of a certification. I'm interested in them trusting me and then seeing results and getting results.

(02:10): And that's the thing that they care about. And so I deliberately chose at the very beginning not to claim anything, but rather to just stand on my own experience. And that's it. And that's brought a lot of pushback in the beginning. And then over time it's changed. And I've had mental health professionals reach out to me, even pay me to run a session with clients of theirs to help them, those clients out where they themselves didn't know what to do and didn't know how to help. And so the industry is in a certain space, they've, they've been going down a trail for a long time and there are a lot of regulations in place that prevent them from doing certain things. And I operate outside of those bounds because I'm not inside of that industry. So I brought here today Ace Jay Sayer. He's a licensed clinical social worker and is currently operating in the therapy world.

(03:01): And he also helps us out inside of the retreat space with one that some of the coaching we've done, He came in August of 2019 for his own reasons, which we'll get into. And so today we're gonna talk about the kind of difference between what happens at the Freedom Specialist and what's going to happen in therapy. Not to say therapy is bad at all because nobody could argue that one, What the heck does that even mean? Two people get results from it, people like it, and that's something that they really enjoy. Some people love therapy just because they love therapy, they love to go and they get a lot of good out of it and that's it. So we're not here to say therapy's bad, we're not here to say anything else. What we're here to do is highlight the difference between the stuff that I've put together and the stuff that therapy is doing and the direction that each one can take you because each one is a journey that ends in a different destination. And that's kind of what we're gonna highlight here. So Ace, welcome. Thank You.

(03:57): And that was a short thank you. So let's talk about your kind of background in history. You've been helping people before you even became a therapist, you were involved in some kind of public health and mental health stuff. Talk about that for just briefly. So just ever since I could work, I was working with people, whether it be in youth facilities, leadership trainings, daycares, schools, et cetera. It was always just helping someone less knowledgeable than me or sometimes smaller than me, have skills that I had. So ever since I could work. And so you've been doing that for a while. So you went into school and you decided, did you wanna be a therapist straight out from in school or how does that work? Yeah, I basically figured out I wanted to help people after all these jobs of helping people and figured out therapy was a good way to do that. So I went to school to learn that just cuz it could keep me on the path of helping people that I wanted to do.

(04:55): And so then you went through that road. What does this education look like in therapy? So you're gonna go to a typical undergraduate education and then what else? Yeah, there's some different branches that we could get technical with. But to summarize it, you're looking at six to 10 years depending on your education and your classification. Mine is technically a six year degree, but the way I did it was shorter but classified as a six year degree. So you go through a six year degree program. There's a lot of universities that do that with business degrees and stuff, it's like six years, but you get your master's combined in five, they do those types of things. So you're going through and essentially a six year degree program inside of that program. You got classes in all kinds of different branches of psychology.

(05:38): So with social work, it's kind of pulling from a lot of different fields. So I took psychology classes, sociology classes, social work classes, things like that. If you take psychology, you're probably looking at more education than I had to do, just different classifications on how they work. And then from there you did you have to do an internship and what's your work life been like since Then? Yeah, so in my bachelor's you, you're required to do internships and master's internships and then after you graduate you are under licensed is what it's called, similar to medical school, their residence residency. And so after that then I became fully licensed. Okay. And how long was the residency? Two Years. Okay. So we're talking eight to 10 years of stuff for your particular licensure. Yeah, For the social work licensure, you're looking at roughly the eight. If you're doing psychology then it can be 10 to around 10. Okay.

(06:33): So I mean we're looking around a medical degree ish depending on the medical degree you do, obviously if you're a surgeon or whatever else, a little bit longer. But it's a good long amount of education. A lot of it is theory based, right? Yes. Yeah. So what is the main thing that they're trying to put off? Cause I mean this was fairly recent that you've finished all of that stuff on top of all the other work that you've done. So what is the main gist that you get about the state of the mental health of the United States, of the country, about what things work and what doesn't work? What's the main kind of ideas? Well,

(07:06): I think one thing that is gonna be helpful for a lot of viewers to know is of when you say theory based therapy is required to do what they call evidence based practice was just means that if you do a type of therapy or a trippi type of intervention, that means it has to affect the bell curve meaning of at least 68% of the people on average have to have benefit from this. So it's not gonna be formally classified what they would call theory, it's gonna be called evidence-based practice meaning on average it works for people in regards to what I see for the mental health of the nation, that's something that is always kind of intrigued to me because we're probably the most educated when it comes to mental health that we've ever been. The stigma is going less and less. You're starting to hear people instead of saying therapy's bad, starting to hear them say everyone needs it and everyone should have one. And so the stigma isn't there as much. We have the most access to medication, all these things that you would think would make mental health better, but for some reason mental health in the nation is declining.

(08:06): I think Covid did a lot with regard to that. When people are isolated, stuck in themselves, not able to go out and distract themselves in so many different ways or participate in their activities, then they have to deal with what they're carrying on the inside. So what's fascinating here is I think it's good to take an aside here and recognize that if something's not working and we continue doing it while expecting it to work someday and it's getting worse, there's a level of insanity about the momentum of the industry. Not any one person in particular but the momentum of the industry. Is that something that you see?

(08:41): I think there's two angles to look at it, which is really tricky. If you look at the individual therapists, then you got a lot of people that really want to help and they're just trying to use the knowledge they received in school to provide that help cuz they internally deeply desire to do it and to help people. But then you look at the macro scale, the whole what's the nation teaching, what are we learning, what's the whole state? And that doesn't seem as genuine or that doesn't seem as helpful or getting to the root of the issue. It doesn't seem when you start looking at that a little bit closer. So that's where I think for me, some of my internal questions and observations and research began is just looking at the what's going on. All the therapists, I know good-hearted people studied their hearts out, some of them, a lot of the ones I affiliate with all of that. But was like, why do we have 40 clients each who've been with us for four years and our caseloads are constantly full and we have to constantly hire and find new more therapists. Why is that happening? If we're all genuine and good and worked our brains out, why is that happening? I think it was good for me to ask that question at least for myself, but I propose that to a lot of our therapists that same question and it just turns into these big philosophical brainstorm sessions, . But I think it's a question that a lot of people need to start asking.

(09:59): Okay. And so you've seen this as you've looked around in career, you've seen the way that therapy is structured and so there are some, without naming names or pointing at different companies or anything or practices or anything like that, just across the board you can find it on websites and whatnot. The way that therapy is structured right now, and the reason I bring this up is not to vilify it or anything like that, but just to see if you're inside of a therapy environment, it's important to know the mentality that's built it and the direction it's headed it. The mentality that's built therapy more or less, it seems to me from the outside is that everybody has troubles and they're not really troubles that are ever gonna go away. And so they're gonna need support for essentially lifetime, maybe off and on, maybe consistently. But they're gonna need support for, is that inaccurate assessment

(10:52): As a whole? That one's gonna depend slightly upon the therapist, but a lot of times the therapist agencies will promote lifetime clients sign type of thing. But the individual therapist's gonna vary philosophy to philosophy per actual therapist. And I've seen places where that incentivize therapists for lifetime client. The longer the client's there, the more pay the therapist gets and so on so forth. And I say, I've seen it so that you don't have to break any code of ethics, about your thing, right, About your career because don't not interested in that. But it is, it's there. So the therapy is built on the idea, which is a theory, and this is why I say it's theory based. There is no evidence that these things are permanent. There is evidence that there are people that have struggled with things for life, but that doesn't mean that what they're struggling with is somehow something that is permanent. It just means that that person's experience in the environment where nobody knew how to help 'em any other different way. And so the theory that mental health issues, one are a thing and two are permanent, is a theory that itself is unattested, right? And so all the other evidence is does this practice actually help people? That's the stuff that

(12:03): They're tested. Yeah. The evidence based practices is if we perform X intervention on X amount of people, does it help statistically enough people, Did it help 60% people? Okay, yeah. Which is good. We wanna know that there's evidence that it's helping people, but then what's the metric for helping people? Did they have results on a survey that said, I saw improvement for X, Y and Z is usually the simple way that it's measured. The complexity behind evidence based practices though is that it's usually this 12 week sequence. Did you follow this 12 week sequence after these 12 week sequence? Did you have this result? But your therapist isn't performing a 12 week sequence. So what they're performing, even what was technically researched

(12:48): So mean, I'm not a researcher, I don't even know what the headache is involved in order to create research. So they're doing the best that they know how, That's for sure. Yes. But there's a lot of fudging in things. And the point is we're still dealing with this notion that okay cool, we've been indoctrinated into these are these big things and they could be chemical imbalances. We need to diagnose and this or these types of treatments that might or might not help. But basically we're dealing with managing and coping with the situation. Yeah, Yeah. Managing and coping. Those are the words of choice in our field. Okay. So would you say you were a good student? Would you say you were a great good therapist? I was the best ,

(13:32): Not In a confident or conceited way, but I took pride in striving to be the top of my class. If I was gonna help people, if people's lives were gonna be entrusted to me, I took that very seriously. I wasn't gonna be somebody who just passed their class. I was gonna be somebody who understood it the best of my abilities. So I don't say it in a conceited way, but I just say it took pride for me to be able to help people. I didn't want to be somebody that's like, Oh yeah, help people. Then I just make the issue worse. Okay, , because did you see people in studies that were like there not, were there to figure themselves out and they wanted to help other people too? Did you see that? Yeah, There was a lot of therapists that the reason why they became therapists is because they needed therapy .

(14:18): Okay. So I mean it's a mixed bag. I mean this is across all types of stuff. So it's not any bag on people who need therapy and so they wanna go help other people. It's in the coaching industry, it's all over the place for sure. And so there you are good you, you've really driven. Did you really have any struggles before then? Were you struggling with anything when you were there or this was genuinely like, No, I just wanna go learn how to help you? So I mean I had some struggles in high school. I think every adolescent will have some and specifically with my mom and I always wanted, family was always important to me. So not being able to figure out that relationship hurt a lot in high school. But I've basically overcame that and learned a lot of skills and so I was like sweet, if I can learn these things, I can teach it to people. But honestly that I learned later in life that those struggles were very small and the skills required to get over that kind of struggle, it's very different than skills. It ended up taking me to get over eventual traumas and anxieties and things like that. So I think I was slightly driven from a place of I had my hurts and I wanted to share it. But overall, if I'm honest with myself, I was pretty stable most of my life.

(15:31): So then I mean you came to one of our retreats in August, 2019. So what had happened before then to that led up to that kind of talk about what happened, what was involved in it and then what you had tried to do and stuff and what led you to the retreat then? Yeah, absolutely. So I think all the background is obviously being studying in my field, I thought I was really good at what I could do. I can still consider myself a pretty good communicator. I was with learning that field and all those things and I ended up marrying the love of my life at that time after being in school for therapy and all those things and noticing there was struggles and tensions in our marriage and ultimately she decided to leave and that shattered my entire world. Obviously being a therapist top of class knowing these skills and she's being a great communicator as well. Shattered everything. And so wait, What do you mean everything? What do you mean it shattered? Everything Like divorce, shattered everything in your world. There's a lot of people that get divorced, there's a lot of people that have relationship issues. It feels a little trite to just go, it shattered everything in my world. Cuz there's way more to it than that.

(16:43): Everything. I love her to death, love her to death. Literally when I say it's death, that's what I mean, it shattered me. I contemplated death. What would it be like with it? Get me outta the suffering. And I was like, wow, this is where my clients are. It brought a depth of pain I didn't know was possible. Which was weird to me because I'm like, Hey, I've to study this my whole life. I know divorce can happen logically. And I understand it wasn't like anyone doing anything wrong or it was bad or it was just a thing logically and all been teachings taught me that. But I was no longer stable. It was hard to work. It was definitely hard to teach what I was teaching because none of it was working on me. So I was lost my wife, I lost my future family. I was thinking I was losing my career because I'm like I can't even teach this stuff cuz it's not working on me. I couldn't feel anymore anything but pain. I knew my family loved me but I couldn't feel it. It was a dark pit of despair for me. Posts on the freeway.

(17:44): Posts on the freeway. That's what I'm known first. Sometimes with that part of the story. I remember the only thing that could make me happy sometimes was I was driving on the freeway and I would see post and realizing it could end all that fast. A slight missed turn and it was over. And that was the only thing that could bring me slight sparks of joy. So when we're talking about darkness, yeah, that's how low it got for me. If you or someone is looking to drop the FBO of freedom in their life, whether that's from past trauma, depression, anxiety, addiction, or any other host of emotional and personal struggles, but they just don't know how or want some help doing it, head on over to the freedom specialist.com/feel better now and check out some of the things we've got in store for you or book a call so we can look at your unique situation and get you the help that you're looking for.

(18:46): And so you did everything that, I mean obviously you did everything that you knew how to do. You tried all the therapies, I assume you found therapists on your own and stuff. What did you do and how long did that go on before you decided to try what We're doing that? That's the part that I think made it get so dark for me is cuz I, not only did I find a therapist, cause I'm like, I believe in therapy. I am a therapist, but I knew because I was a therapist, I was educated on how to find the right therapist with the specialties and the education that I needed specifically for my issue. And I found he's a phenomenal therapist. I would probably still recommend him to other people. Did a great job at what he did. But I was only even without great, I was only finding enough joy enough dealing with it to get through another week to push me to that next therapy session. And I was like, if I as a normal person know how to find the best of the best and it's not working, what hope do I have?

(19:45): So finding a therapist for me made it darker and that's why I just was looking everywhere and I mean I'm a religious person, I was praying and looking and all that stuff and luckily stumbled upon a friend who worked with Bob and he said it'll work. And I'm like, whatever. I mean I either pay for this or I die. So pay for it, . So it was kind of just an option of, cause I was on the phone with Bob and obviously coming from my professional background, like he was saying earlier with other therapists, it was, well what credentials do you have? How do you know this? And I was, and that was initially my first response to him. But I was at the end I was like, you know what? Credentials don't mean anything. Clearly I have them and other people who are amazing in their field have them and are helping me and it's not getting anywhere. Let's take a shot in the dark, let's try this, why not? So you had some great changes happen there at the retreat. That first retreat that you went to was only three days. We do 'em four days now because there's a little bit more involved. But that one was the first one I had run. It was the first time I was really showing people some of the things that had really helped me. And so it was really just kind of me sticking my toes in the water. Day two, a lot of stuff changed for you and we don't necessarily need to go through all the processes and whatnot that happened, but there's a lot that shifted in a very short amount of time. What was the shift from, Okay cool, I came ready to, okay, I'm ready to die, whatever. And then you leave what it would, it changed.

(21:14): Yeah. And I'm gonna ask you that question here in a second cause I realized some backpedal context that might be helpful too is while at the retreat our phones are off and I opened my phone three days later to find about 25 missed calls from my sister, my mom, my dad, my brother who were two hours away from calling a missing person's report because I forgot to let them know I was going to retreat. So when we talk about how dark and low that I got, that's where my family was terrified because they hadn't heard from me for a few days. So I think that context is helpful to paint how miraculous those two days were. Because when I jumped on the phone with them to tell them what had shifted, they're like, they started crying because their son was back, their brother was back. They're like, What happened ? And honestly, I tell them the same thing I telling you guys on the podcast now I have no idea . I was like, we did something somatic and was that word, we did something with my body and all of a sudden I feel better .

(22:25): So huge shift. How much, Okay, so now we wanna talk about cuz at the Freedom Specialist, it's not like we denigrate the stuff that I do. It's not that I'm denigrating people's thoughts, it's just that I wanna put 'em in their place, which is byproduct of a biological experience and not really the main show. Whereas most of therapy is very heavily related to the thought process itself. And so talk about the focus that changed, the shifts that changed. Is that something possible you can do in therapy? What are the things that you saw shift in your life as a result, that kind of stuff. Oh man. So a lot of the things that are done at retreat aren't possible to do a therapy probably for two main reasons. One, the therapy world is just barely getting a glimpse of what the somatic, the importance of the body in regards to doing things. A really well educated therapist will tell you the body is important. So that's good to know, but they don't have a lot of things they can do with it. So that's definitely an event space thing that's gonna be very different. And obviously the therapy's also taught a lot more about the mind. So we're trying to talk about the past, talk about the history, talk about trauma relationships, how did that psychologically form the concepts you have around this or that, which can just lead to a lot of in-depth conversation. It can lead into a lot of things that are, let's put it this way, there's now a phrase called the standard cycle of care, which is 52 sessions of therapy. That's what dealing with the mind stuff is navigating for a standard of 52 sessions on what's going on in your thoughts. So that's what a big difference is of what talking with the mind versus working with the body is what I've been noticing in this experience.

(24:11): So you were trying all the therapy side of things for how long before you came? So you divorced, was it a year, was it I tried, I mean I tried my own stuff, right? Cause I knew all the skills so I was like, let me use my skills on myself first. That was about a year and then therapy for probably a half a year to a year, I don't know the exact timeframes, but for a good segment of time. And then two days, Two days it was 98% gone. I mean the wanting, not knowing how to live part was gone. I worked with you a little bit later on some trust related things, relationship things like to polish things up. But I wanted to live again. My life was back. There was some couple kinks along the way, but as a whole what was given to me was amazing.

(24:58): Yeah, there's some cutting edge stuff that's going on with regard to flow science and other things where they're seeing benefits with people who've struggled with PTSD and other types of loss from skydiving and from other things. And so it's possible that in the future therapists might start to diagnose and prescribe you for experiences as opposed to pills or something like that. But it's still kind of nascent and very, very early in the stages of a lot of the research on those types of things and probably unstable and is everybody get a benefit from it and all the evidence based questions that researchers have to deal with. But the point is, look at the difference in time a year and a half to two years on your own and with a professional who is someone you would still possibly recommend

(25:43): Really tackling something versus two days. It's not me. It's not like, oh Bob's special. It's the fact that the body is holding it. Not that the body is holding some thought process or the body is holding all of the tension patterns in chemistry that the thought processes are built on. So when you get rid of the building blocks, there's not enough to build. And that's the major difference is that I've spent what a long time in my life studying martial arts and body work and in energy work and anatomy and posture related things and physical alignment and how all of these pieces of the puzzle are together. And I still had to go figure out how is this linked to the brain. How is this linked to all these pieces? And it was a long journey for me. It's still kind of amazing to me how quickly you can make change with just simple body work.

(26:35): And sometimes it happens fast in two days and sometimes it happens over the course of three weeks or four weeks or a month or five months or something. So it's not like it's always instantaneous. The fastest I've seen changes an hour and the slowest has been 18 months I think. So something like that. So sometimes there have been a couple of people over of the thousand plus I've worked with that have taken a long time cause they had a lot of pieces of the puzzle or they disappeared in the middle for six months and then came back and stuff like that. So it's not always instantaneous, but handling the body does a couple of different things. One, you're dealing with the building blocks, you get rid of the building blocks, you give different building blocks, then you've gotta build different things. So your thoughts can't do the thing.

(27:14): Two, you are retraining that as a habit. And so now the body starts to take care of it automatically and it doesn't take willpower and mental work for you to focus on it in order to change things. You don't have to be mindful, you can just go live your life differently. , which is also nice because then there's less almost a subconscious process. It's by default. And so those are huge, huge processes. And the third thing is a lot of the things that people struggle with are not verbal and are not things that they could even begin to talk about would. And so when you look at that process and you look at those types of things, could you say that the reason therapists standard cycle of care is 52 sessions, which is anywhere from a year to two to three to four years, depending on how often they come for a session. Would you say that that's probably why it's so long?

(28:01): That's definitely a big component of it. I'm actually a client come to my mind right now that she basically came into the session is like, I don't know what it is or what it, it resonates in my gut and just describing somatic symptoms. And after talking with her for a few sessions and because we were focusing somatically, she's like, I just feel like it happened when I was three, but I don't have any words from when I was three. I was like, cool, so what a three year old do kind of thing. And we just process it. So her and I process it way times faster. But imagine trying to explore the mind, trying to figure out what a three year old thought, how many sessions would that take? Because A three year old doesn't have thoughts. They barely have a few words.

(28:39): Yeah, exactly. And she doesn't even know if the memory that she had was real or if it was created or who did it or anything like that. She just knew that her gut was telling her something was off. So in the early days of psychoanalysis, Sigmund Freud, the great fraudster, the great Freud stir I mean there's a lot of evidence recently that's come out about the number of fabricated case studies and things that he put out because he, he was looking to get credit for things. He would rush back to a client's side for fear that the client might get better without him and then he wouldn't be able to take credit for it. There were things that he imprinted on people, but a lot of the stuff was covered for a long time and as a result, the things that you could read about Freud made it sound like he was accurate or real and that he was onto something even though a lot of stuff couldn't even be tested as theories. But he had theories about early childhood traumas or early childhood desires and sexualization of the parents and things.

(29:40): And he would impose these on the clientele and they didn't really have a way to talk about it. He doesn't know what, he doesn't remember what it's like to be a kid, but somehow he's got his theory and then that that was the case for all of a lot of medicine and stuff at the time too. So it's not just Freud that was doing, and a lot of people were imposing, shoot, Playto was doing this in the bcs, Okay, I have a theory, this is what I think is happening and if anything doesn't actually match my theory, I'll toss it out. Actually Playto admitted to this in one of his dialogues. , oops. Anyway and so early on there's a lot of influence and psychology moved away from that to more evidence based things since then. But that early influence really set in motion a lot of things around, okay, we've gotta talk about this, we've gotta put things in motion. So a lot of the methodologies there are holdovers from a time when somebody's talking about early childhood trauma when the reality is that a child can't talk about early childhood trauma, only an adult can and they're gonna not be able to talk about it in the terms of the child would even know.

(30:45): And that's why for that client, I ended up taking a somatic approach. It was over in a couple sessions because it was working with more of a body based approach than having to do words. We all just said the three year old wouldn't have words necessarily for what was going on and memories can be fabricated and outside our own head around when year three and things like that. So yeah, there was a lot in that situation that 52 sessions would've just taken just to find it. That's it. Just to find it then to hopefully work from there To manage and cope from there To manage and cope. Yeah, because the overall theory of therapy is that most things are gonna be there forever. It's just how you were born. You just drew the short stick.

(31:28): And so what I'll we will end up with is this, I definitely fly in the face of pretty much all of therapy. A ace can attest to that every time he brings something up. But we went through a lot in order to be able to get him to be able to let go of the things that he was holding and it could happen quickly. And that type of experience was what enabled him to be able to start to work somatically with the clients that he works with and things and get them results in a shorter period of time. Precisely because the things that he can challenge in therapy that he isn't gonna get fired for. He does. And that came from me not willing to accept the authority figures that said that I was gonna be stuck with something for life. It's a bold move, it's a gutsy move.

(32:07): It's one that people hate. It's one that might look like arrogance or pride. But essentially it was me saying I cannot accept the notion that I am gonna be stuck with something for life who told them and what makes me sure that they're right And they might be dead sure that they're right, but I am living a different life as a result of simply being willing to question that. And so if you're looking at therapy there, there's a lot of great therapists that could give you some good management coping skills, but just recognize that even if their words are saying, Yeah, yeah, well maybe we'll get through this. Their training is saying you won't get through this but you, you'll be able to cope it. Right? Let me mischaracterize that As a whole. There's again, depending a little bit on your background, they might be like, Oh these disorders are recoverable, these disorders coping. But as a whole they're like, no, it's something you have the rest of your life. You just have to figure out how to manage. It. Manages the big word.

(33:06): But even the definition of recoverable disorders is not a definition of freedom. It's a definition of certain kinds of symptoms for a period of time or something.
The word is remission. It's just in the background right now. Yeah, I have anxiety but it's in remission. It'll come back later. . Yeah. So they're talking about it like a cancer, which is another disease that they also don't know how to manage. I think that's a really good thing to point out because if you were to go into for treatment for cancer and they said chemotherapy stage three, what's the success rate? What's the odds of me with this treatment working? The therapist would say, on average this or the doctor would say, This is the rate of recovering for cancer. But if we're following the medical model as therapist, we should be able to answer that same thing. I have an anxiety, What's the rate of depression for the treatment model you're doing? They don't necessarily have answers to that. Okay. That's just they, no one's ever asked me that question, but I was like, oh, if we're following the medical model, we probably should be able to answer that the same way.

(34:05): But even the medical professionals don't really know things are changing all the time and they're doing their best, which I always wanna reiterate, everybody that's working in these fields is doing their best that I know of anyway. And so I just wanna hold this to your attention to give you permission to challenge the authorities that the reason they're telling you things are hard or will take a long time, will take you 52 sessions or anything else that is not, cuz they're mean, it's because that's all they know. And if they don't know how to get you the results that you want in the timeframe that you want, then this is just to give you permission to be like, well let me go ask a different question. Let me go ask somebody else. See if somebody else knows how to do it and not to say, well then they're right. And anybody claiming different is it's too good to be true.

(34:49): And I kind of wanna piggyback off of that, about the giving permission situation. Cuz you mentioned Freud earlier and most therapists would kind of laugh at Freud still, so you we're on the same page there, less left at Freud . And that's because he was what they call phase one in psychology. And I believe we're on phase four right now. So my question that I proposed to the audience would be, what if the answer to your mental illness is actually in phase five? That means it hasn't happened yet. We haven't figured it out yet. That is me giving you permission to constantly ask questions cuz that's what we're doing in our field too. We've entered four phases of different answers, throughout Freud hun. Phase one to right now I think is considered a phase four. I'm pretty sure it's like acT and D B T are the popular ones right now.

(35:38): But cbt, yeah CBT is kind of, I think a phase three. Or actually and don't somebody, I might hear this and call me wrong cause I don't remember the exact, those are back in college and I was a little while ago. But it's the biggest question I would say proposed to people is what if your answers in phase five? That means always have a question in the back of your mind cuz maybe the thing that you need is yet to be fully discovered and things like that. And I think we actually might be entering into phase five with actually some of the things you're Teaching Gestalt theory and some of these other things that are showing up. Gestalt is kind of a remodel of phase two, I think. Sure, yeah.

(36:14): So the point here is I would suggest, what if it's not in any of the phases? What if it's right in front of your nose and mm-hmm waiting for a phase is just waiting for the next phase. . Yeah, so I, I'm the impatient folk and that's why I went the route that I went. So if you're looking for somebody who can guide you by the hand, slowly through the phases, a therapist might be a good idea. But the point that I brought Ason is not to vilify therapy, but to give you a sense of what you might get from a professional, somebody who's not gonna badmouth the profession, it's helped a lot of people it still continues to. And I mean there's billions of people on the planet. There's one of me, even if I did have the answers for everybody and I don't, there's still not enough space.

(36:58): We need people helping. If you feel like you wanna go study therapy because you wanna work that way, do it. Cuz there people need help. But just keep asking questions, challenge everything. Don't sit there and accept what people have said at face value because there's never a face value. Everything is influenced by biases and assumptions that we grew up with that we didn't even think to question. We just assumed it was part of the background when it was really a stage prop. That's where the juice is. That's all that I did was ask questions about the very things that people assumed were given. And as a result I was given a way out, but that was much faster and much more efficient. The last thing I'll say is if you're going to therapy, you also, if you really want to see some really beneficial results, you still need to start working with the body.

(37:44): You need to start looking at how the body's holding things, how it's opening up. That could be as simple as little physical activities that you do, some new activities or something simple ones. It could be as little as walking day to day, getting out inside of the natural world. It could be diet. That's a one way to work with the body. We do all of these at the Freedom Specialist, but something that addresses the body. Cuz if you're only addressing the mind, you're only addressing the last thing on the chain, the mind, the thoughts and emotions. But the building blocks are a lot earlier and that's like trying to stop the train when it's 10 feet in front of you. You better start a mile back if you really want the train to stop. And so that's where the body work comes into place. And so if you really wanna experience that, you can go to the freedom specialist.com/body to see an example of some of the body work. That's not all of it. We do a lot of movement practice and some other things too, but some of the deep tissue work that we do there on that page and kind of get a Sense for that.

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