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Highlights from this episode include:

  • A simple way to make your offer a no-brainer to your client so you stop losing sales (21:40)
  • This mind-blowing method of packaging services means you’ll never waste your time on low-dollar tasks again (22:38)
  • This mindset shift helps you to overcome your fear of charging higher prices (24:02)
  • How price anchoring prevents you from resenting your clients (26:57)
  • An easy way to overcome objections without feeling like a used-car salesman (28:09)
  • Why lower prices destroy the level of value you can provide your clients (33:55)
Read Full Transcript

There's two types of people who hear consensual sales in the first go, Oh, Eww, Shawna, that is not what you want to say. There are better words to use and the second type here, consensual sales and say, you know what? You're right. I don't want to talk my way into the sale. I don't want to memorize a script. You just want to work with clients who are excited to work with you. Now that's consensual sales.

(00:28): Hello, everybody. And welcome to consensual sales Facebook group. You are watching a new series that we're putting together. A call. Show me the money where we are taking members from the group specifically who need help booking more clients consistently and increasing their profit margin. So today we have a very special guest. So why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the group. And we'll dive right in. I am Tiana answer and I am a spine art boudoir photographer, and women's empowerment coach. Gosh, that's an awful no, no, we got it. We got it. Okay. So I know that you filled out some questions before this conversation with me, but can you tell me how long you've been in business and like, which one do you want to focus on talking about the most right now? Yeah, so I have been in business for eight years with my photography side.

(01:18): The coaching side is just a year old and I definitely want to focus on photography today. And this is your bread and butter. Right. And is okay. Do you do this primarily out of your own home? No studio. Okay. So as you've been doing the photography business, what would you say is like the current biggest struggle that you've got? My personal biggest struggle or the businesses struggle. Look, we can talk about both of them. What's on your mind right now with the business. I love my clients. I need consistently higher sales, so I'm a boutique photographer, so we don't just shoot and give digitals. We shoot and sell digitals or products. And so I want my sale from my average client to be more consistent. Okay. Do you charge any fee for the initial shoe? Okay. What's that? So the basic, if you get like a basic session, it's 500 includes hair and makeup, the session editing and all sorts of gifts and stuff that we give.

(02:22): So I don't really make anything off of the session fee itself. Yeah. Okay. And then the real money maker then for you is when they buy the actual physical product and the photographs. Right. Do you sell like a packet of the digital prints? I do. Yeah. Okay. So you have the digital print option that they can buy afterwards. What does that run? It's 2,500. Okay. And then what's the range of prices for the physical product. So you can start as low as 75 for like a print and our highest all cart item would be our biggest, which is 2,500. Okay. So Jacob,

(03:02): The physical album for 25 and the digitals for 25, right. Do you create

(03:07): Packages for those? I do. I have packages that are like, like, if you want all the digitals plus like the big album, there are different packages that have like combination of digital and physical products. Okay. So how many

(03:20): Nice do you average right now? A month? I just did a huge campaign.

(03:26): So I'm shooting like twice a week, which is higher than normal before. It was like usually once a week ish. So like three to five sessions a month before. Right now I'm definitely at like around eight, which is good, which is what I wanted, but it hasn't always been that consistent. Okay. What are you doing now? That's bringing in people, to be honest, COVID actually worked for me or stuck at home and because I work one on one, I was still allowed to be operating. So I think people that just wouldn't have normally gone for it, went for it kind of thing. Yeah.

(04:06): Okay. Where are those people coming from? Like your clients, like the more that are coming in right now and the old ones previously, like where do they hear about you? That's a great question. I think a lot

(04:16): People, a lot of the people I'm seeing right now are referrals. Like a lot of them are referrals from past clients. And what I do is obviously really delicate cause I'm looking at half naked women and taking pictures of him. So I think it's a trust factor there for a long time, we ran Google ads and that was the main way I was getting clients. But I'm like, it's so expensive to run ads. Good gracious. I'm trying to move away from that.

(04:42): So the average person is putting down the $500 deposit and then what's the average sale after the fact right now my average sale is

(04:52): About 1500 ish last year might have, we're still was probably closer to 3000 and yeah, I struggle with money. I don't like selling. What, how did you go from selling $3,000

(05:10): Prints and then going down to 1500? I honestly,

(05:14): I think it has a lot to do with my confidence and I don't know what the switch was, but there was a huge dip last year. And it was like consistent from August to about February of this year that my average sale went down tremendously worthy. The number of people still coming in the same? No, it was less people too. So not only did you have less

(05:36): The people, but you also had less cramped purchases. Do you call them print purchases? Like what do you call it? An upsell or I think product purchase. What's the profit margin on the

(05:49): Product purchases. That's a good question. At least 75% to like, I get to keep 75% of 500. Okay.

(05:59): So is there a certain income goal that you're trying to hit?

(06:02): Yeah. Yeah. So I would like to be at 15 K a month. Our business expenses alone are about five games between the studio and like paying for hair and makeup and all that stuff. Like I need to make at least 15 K. My husband previously was a stay at home dad he's in real estate now. And that is hard to start. I had any pain clients yet. So like literally my income is the only thing paying our bills. So 15 is my goal.

(06:35): So if 15 K is the goal and I just want to make sure that my math is right.

(06:41): I love that you're doing all that.

(06:43): Okay. Yeah. So if 15,000 is the goal, you need to sell $20,000 worth of product every month to the people who come in. So if you are averaging right now, if you're averaging eight people a month, if you have eight people coming to your shop, each person needs to buy on top of the $500, another 2,500. So you take your sales goal. Did you know that

(07:07): It had to be at least 25, which is like I said, that's right.

(07:10): We were last year. Yeah. And you probably like a little bit more, especially if you got, if you're not including taxes and shit in the initial 15,000. Right. So you have a little buffer. Okay. So where are you from all over, but mostly Virginia. Okay. I think Haley Haley Shane is from Virginia. She's in this group. You'd really like, she's really cool. She's like a graphic designer. Oh, cool. Okay. So last year you were selling at 3000. Okay. Let's make this really easy. So how much more capacity can you take on for clients?

(07:45): I actually would love to be closer to one and a half sessions a week. I feel like I'm killing myself doing too. There's a lot that goes into the sessions. Like, and then you have to edit and then they have to come back and see that like it's I would rather do one a week, honestly.

(08:03): Okay. So what difference did you notice in the conversation with your clients when you were selling $3,000 for product purchases versus what you are now?

(08:15): I think one of the big things with that is that the people that I was hitting last year were definitely in a higher bracket, like of what they valued and what they could spend. Just like everyone that came in, it didn't seem like I was selling to them because they already knew what they wanted and they already knew they wanted it,

(08:33): Everything. How did they already know what they wanted? Like, were you doing something different in your mind?

(08:39): No. I'm not doing anything different. I think. And I know this for sure, obviously, but I like last year was mainly Google leads and I feel like those people just did more research on the website. That's my guesstimate. I just feel like people who knew exactly what they were getting into. They didn't really have a whole lot of questions. They were just like ready for it. And now I feel like I'm selling more, like trying to convince them

(09:06): People that they want it. So why did you stop the Google ads?

(09:11): So was it just cause it was too expensive, did you say, yeah, right now I'm trying to focus more on like getting my Facebook group up and my social meet the free stuff because we're spending at least $500 in ads and probably only booking like two sessions from it, which is like, that's a hard, that's a high investment. I think

(09:31): You're losing money then every, every time just when it makes a deposit, if it costs you $500 and that you don't even make anything off of that out. Yeah. Photography ad spend is crazy. I was there a particular reason why you might not be, do running ads on Facebook? So

(09:50): I did. I just did a campaign where I ran ads on Facebook and it was for a promotion and that did fairly well. It got a lot of people in my group and got a lot of people on the email list. I have a super active email list. So hoping that that leads to some bookings for sure. But I don't continually run Facebook ads. Okay.

(10:08): How many people do you have in your email group and your Facebook group? Sorry,

(10:12): The 40 in the Facebook group. Four 30 on the email?

(10:17): Yeah. Okay. So you said that right now, most of your business is coming through referral. Right? Can you walk me through the process in which somebody goes, Hey, my friend hired you and I think I want to do it too. Like, can I get more information or did they come ready to give you money? It's usually, it's a mixture of both.

(10:36): So after my gals have a session, they get a $200 credit. If they recommend someone and then that person also gets a $200 credit. So I think that helps push people to like really want to share their photos. Cause they know they're getting money from it,

(10:51): Probably getting $200 for a next session. Just it's usually

(10:55): For next session because like I have girls going on their fifth and sixth session with me. It's usually for their next session. But if they want to come back in and order more from this one, they can,

(11:04): Why is it $200? Well, I did one

(11:07): A hundred before and I didn't get much. And then I bumped it up and I've gotten a lot of referrals. Good, good. That's what we want to do. We want to experiment and see

(11:14): And how the market is responding. So that's good. Okay. So $200 is what will drive the referrals. Okay. So they come to you and they say, okay, like, Hey, like my friend told me about you and I got this credit, like good. I said, can I get more information? Or like, do they say like, how does this work? Yeah. Normally they're like, okay, explain to me how this works. Usually their friend has like told them

(11:35): It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So I kind of walk them through it. A lot of these have been through like email and texts. I really need to get better about getting people on the phone. Cause I convert real well on the phone. But I just never think to do that.

(11:50): Yeah. It's, it's a beast, especially if you little kids, like I know

(11:54): That you do so. Okay.

(11:56): Okay. We can talk about that later. So we need to bring in $15,000 a month. So you need to make 2,500 on each sale that comes in to hit that sales goal. But the most somebody can buy it's already at the top of that.

(12:12): Does that make sense? So my package is my packages go up to 5,000.

(12:17): It goes up to five. So the final package is 5,000 and then includes the digitals

(12:22): Big wall.

(12:26): Does anybody buy that? Have you been able to sell any of them?

(12:29): I have sold it three or four times in the past two years. Why did they want those? And usually it's because they come in wanting a physical product and then they see how many photos they have and they can't because you can only have 30 images in the album. So they see how that they love more than 30 images. So they're just like, okay, I just have to get everything.

(12:53): Why do they want everything? Like, what's the difference between somebody who wants to physical product versus somebody who doesn't care about them?

(13:01): Usually in decisiveness they just kind of that pushes them to get, cause I've had people come in and want a physical product and then they can't decide. So then they end up just getting all the digitals so they can like live with them and process them. Cause you have the rights to print with the digitals. And usually the women who are getting a physical album has significant others who are norm we're a huge military community. So deeply like people who, you know, they want to be able to take their thing with them, which I don't recommend because men lose things. But okay.

(13:37): So you said the average sale is 1500, right? So does that mean that most people aren't walking away with the digital prints? Like what are people buying? Like what's the average sales 1500? Like what is it that they're buying and your top seller, your top seller. That's what I wanted to ask.

(13:54): That's basically what it comes down to is right now, over the past two months, people are either getting their full digital collections. So they're going for the 2,500 or they're just getting a few digitals. So it ends up being like $800 or $500 or something like that. So that's why it kind of meets in the middle. There's not anything that actually costs $1,500.

(14:17): So say that again, when you get the digital products, do you let them pick which photos are in there?

(14:23): They can get the full collection, which is that 2,500 or they can just get individual photos. So that's what people are right now and doing one of the other.

(14:33): Why wouldn't you just give them the whole digital file because it's more editing. So you edit all of the dead tire digital file. Yeah, it does. Like, is that normal? That's going to be normal, right? Is it? Yeah. I always thought photographers. They do like their hand collected like 30 or favorite pictures. Right. Or they're like dozen and then they say these are them. Here's the digital. And then they just like,

(14:58): Yeah. So from an average session, my gal sees about 150 photos. It's a lot of, lot of work, especially because they're naked. So like everything is visible. So people are either buying all 150 or they're like, okay, I just want to get like 10.

(15:16): Okay. I think there's something here about how the pricing is set up between these files. So most people, your average sales, 1500, but it turns out that most people, when they're buying, they're just getting this hand selected highly digital or highly edited photos. Right. Because they only want like a handful, right? Like that's what you're selling the most.

(15:36): Hang on one second. Is there a reason

(15:38): And while you're doing 150 photos, is that just like,

(15:42): So the session is an hour long. So it's like literally different angles and different positions and different outfits. And because like, if you're creating an album, you don't want all the same outfit. So it's just, that's how many we capture in the session time that they're given. If it's a good photo, I don't throw it away. And honestly this is going to sound horrible. But the way the pricing is set up, if they like more than 20, it's cheaper just by all of them, because a single digital image is $85. So

(16:11): You're charging less, even though it's more work. What do you mean? You said that it's cheaper if they take all of them, right?

(16:18): Yeah. My coercive tactic of, Oh, Hey, you like 30, it's cheaper for you to just buy 30 or buy the entire collection then for you to just get these ones.

(16:31): Sure. What do you want to do? Like do you, as the business owner want them to all have an album, do you even want to give them the digital files? Like what do you want as the business?

(16:41): That is a really great question. I don't know. It changes to me

(16:49): When you think about the mission that you have, the vision of your business, like what would you just want to wrap up in a bow and give to your perfect ideal client and say like, this is the best thing that I could possibly give you. Like what is that?

(17:04): My favorite thing is definitely the album. I think they're beautiful.

(17:07): Okay. Why, why do they need the album?

(17:10): I believe, and I've had clients push back against this, but I believe that when you have something physical that you can touch and hold, you value it more. And like me personally, I have a bunch of wallet of my naked body in my bedroom and I have small stills or any, but I mean, like that's what I see all the time. When it's a digital, you can very easily not see it and forget about it and forget about the experience and how you felt. So to me, something physical is my favorite. Okay. Whoever asks, we have a deluxe session, that's three hours long. So you can have more than three outfits to how many of those do you sell on a lot of lately? Like my last five clients have all booked the deluxe session also. Hence why you get way more, three hours. You get tons of photos.

(17:59): What's the deposit for that?

(18:01): The same, but the session is 500 versus 800. So there's an $800 deposit. The session fee. Yeah. The session fee is $800.

(18:11): The clients that you've worked with, what are some of the nicest compliments that they've told you? What's the best thing that somebody has told you? Well, recently

(18:20): We had a session last Friday and she said that she saw a lot of things. We were crying the whole time. She said that I forgot that I was in there, but I haven't seen this woman in a long time. And you guys allowed me to spend time with her and I'm really excited to get back to being me. She's a mom. She also has cancer. And that was just like really incredible to be a part of. Okay.

(18:43): The people who buy the deluxe does the product purchase still cost the same if they want with like the album and the digital prints, even though there's more,

(18:51): Yes, they do credit. Like they get a hundred dollar credit when they book, but that's it. Okay. And what are those prices range from? What? From the deluxe products are the same. Do you lose money on those things? No, because usually when they booked the deluxe, they, because they're seeing more photos, they spent more. Okay.

(19:14): You said he ended up with about 150 photos, right? At the end of like a normal session.

(19:18): Probably close to like one 30, I would say one 30.

(19:21): So they end up with 130 photos. Do you edit them all before showing them?

(19:27): Yeah, it's not. Yeah. They're not super fine tune edited, but they're pretty dang close. I spend a lot of time in editing. Okay.

(19:38): Okay. I feel like I'm finally onto something. Okay. Here we go. Okay. So there's a couple of things. The very first thing is that when you have those phone calls come in, are those inquires. You need to have some type of process that really prepares them to spend money in this. Isn't a $500 investment. This is a $2,500 investment. So there are some nuances and some sort of objections that we could handle. Like we can see it in the conversation and the way that we're presenting our stuff. And there's a process in which I would put that person through. So absolutely there needs to be one really clear process for most referrals to come in and obliterate their objections to the time that you go to say, okay, like you need the album, right? Because the album is going to help you remember that you're here and you're in there.

(20:23): And this is the physical proof of it. We're not going to ask somebody who cares about you and cares about like, making sure that you don't forget who you are. We're not going to put these cheers buried on your hard drive somewhere. Okay? So like you, as the business owner have to fight for that belief, it's not about like convincing them or talking them into something. It means as a business, this is why we stand up for you in this capacity, because you've a mom, you suffered this illness, you had this thing going on, you forgot who you are. So you come in here and you use my service. I will no longer let you do that. Right. So I'm going to do everything that we can to help you get this album in your hands. Okay. We can talk about a payment plan. We can work it out, but they aren't going to buy your guests when they purchase from you.

(21:07): And so you have to kind of like, hold that space for them and say like, this is what I'm about. And this is how it's going to serve you. Right. Okay. So then it becomes less about, Hey, you should like consider buying this thing. And it becomes about the mission and the message that you have. And that alone becomes the vehicle to sell the $2,500. So you're not just saying, Hey, here's an album for $2,500. No, we're framing the conversation. So they see the value and it instantly comes to a no brainer. Like how could I ever talk myself out of this when you presented that way? Right. Okay. The other problem, it's not really a problem, but the way that I would tweak this is you need like every person that comes into your, into your thing, you like for you to be profitable for your family, to win for this, to be like a thing where you've got consistency in cashflow that you can count on is those people have to come in and they have to be ready to spend $2,500 or it's just not worth it.

(22:00): Like it's not gonna be worth it. So what I would do is I would create three packages. The first one is the digital prints. They get 20 pictures that they pick out of the hundred and 30, right. And that will run them to grant plenty. They go, you go through the pictures, they pick out 20 and those are them. They can take them as digital files or they can buy the second package, which is the elbow for 2,500. Right. So it's just $500 more from the 20 photos. And they get all of them in an album for them to hold on to. Or the third package is all the digital files and the album for five grand. So you're saying, take out all a cart. Yeah. They need to come in there knowing like, when you invest with me, it's going to run you 2,500 and we're going to do a deposit and we're going to get a match you with a package that you are obsessed with and absolutely love the thing is, is you don't want them to just take 20 pictures.

(22:58): You don't want them to get the low package. You don't want them to get 20 files. You want them to, you need to sell the elbow. And once they realize like den, they don't get the digital prints. Then they have the opportunities to get the digital files with the album together for the $5,000. Okay. And like, this is your business. Like, didn't just take this for what it's worth. This is an outsider's perspective. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but it's absolutely worth considering at least with the information that we have that you need to sell to 2,500 every time somebody comes into that door. Yeah. No, I don't disagree with you. I hate when people get less than 20 photos, actually. I'm like, I think my only hesitation, my fear is that if people see that they're going

(23:46): To run away and not book. And while I, part of me is like, I don't care if they run away, they don't book. But because I am the breadwinner of my family, I'm like, can I feed my family if I do that? But I love the idea I want, I want to. Okay.

(24:01): So let's unpack that a little bit. So you're nervous to turn away business because that business means what, even though you wouldn't be profiting off that business,

(24:13): That's a really good question. I don't know. I guess in my mind, I'm like, well, some money is better than no money. I'll take that referral. But I mean, people who refer, people refer people that are in their same mindset frame. Yeah.

(24:32): So that's absolutely right. Your referrals will come from like, you want referrals from the people who have money to spend and the people who have money, no people who have.

(24:43): Oh, okay.

(24:45): So, okay. So walk me through this a little bit more. So what's coming up for you. What do you mean? Like you're breathing heavy, you look stressed out a little uncomfortable, like talk to me about what's going on in your head, right?

(24:57): Yeah. I think it's just so when people see the session fee, they say, okay, so how much do products cost? First of all, it says several times on my website products and digitals are not included. So then the next question is how much are digital is because most photographers these day are just handing out digital part of the session fee. And so then I'm like, Oh, well, you know, one digital is only $85. So people are like, okay, that's doable. I can spend $800, get a few that I like and be good. But so then I'm like, some money is better than no money, but I agree. Like I, when people come in and buy eight photos, I'm like a lot of times it's because it's because of their budget or because they're like, well, I just can't spend that much on me. And so what you said at first really resonated with me because that is what I'm, I'm selling you yourself and people don't get that. So

(25:54): No you're with the price anchoring concept possibly. So any time that you drop a number, when you tell your client like a particular price, that number is associated with something, right? Like they're thinking 85 bucks. Yeah. That's like the city costs at JC Penney's or yet 85 bucks is like what we spend, you know, for groceries every week. Like they will anchor whatever price you tell them to something else. And what ends up happening is if that price is anchored at the lowest, the next time that you say, yeah, 2025, 5,000, it gets harder and harder and more stressful for them to come up. It's waiting here to come down. So you start at the big price and you anchor the price appropriately and then come down. So it's absolutely, when you work with me, my fees will start at 2,500. And then you start where like, when you work with me, the investments will rock.

(26:52): I'm starting at 2,500, but all you need today is a $500 deposit. Like how much easier is it for me to feel the relief of that number and easier for me to say yes, when you say it like that, right? You are literally undermining your life's work when you do not sell me the album. And you're letting you walk out with eight prints. So when people are like, Hey, Oh, like I just only need like four of them. Sure. If you only need four of them, then just have your husband do them or have your best friend go over there. I'm not like I'm not in the business of doing four of them. This is about really giving you something. So you don't forget who you are. And I'm going to do that in one of three ways, you're going to get 20 handpicks photos that you can walk away with the day that you come in here or we're going to give you an album or there's this really high, you know, VIP option or whatever, right.

(27:44): No, start at 5,000 and they'll come all the way down to 2000. So it depends on what you want. This is what you can expect when you come. And they'll say, Oh yeah, I don't know. I'm really scared. Isn't it? That's normal. And I would be worried if you weren't a little scared. So talk to me about what you're scared about is the deposit. Is it that you've never spent money like this on yourself before? Let's talk about that. Right. And so then you're answering that underlying fear and then you're just helping her walk through that. Does she need a payment plan? Does she need to book an appointment and you can consider the deposit, right? Do you, you say you're a coach through their fear, right? I'm like, okay. Like you've never spent this much money on yourself before. Like, let me coach you through that. That's fine. If she did, you need to pull her in, you need a lie. It doesn't bother me.

(28:33): I'm taking notes over here. Sorry.

(28:35): Oh, wait. Yeah. I was just saying we shouldn't be recording this, but I guess it'll be live streamed in the Facebook group. You can always save it and come back in there.

(28:41): So I'm getting there. I'm almost there. So I guess I'm wondering how I present that because

(28:47): I want, I would love to present it of like 2,500 includes the sessions being,

(28:56): I would love to do that. That frightens me on the website. It lists the two different types of sessions and then it says products starting at blah, blah, blah. So I guess I'm wondering how I present that because general role lower. I don't know. What do you think?

(29:15): Talk to me. So you're wondering how you can present it in. Like, what do you mean? Do I leave the website

(29:20): As is, as in like the session fee is 500 and 800 and you pick your products. But if they ask me about products, I say, Hey, product started $22,000. Or do I just absolve them together and say it's 2,500. I feel like that would steer so many people away. If I said it starts at 2,500,

(29:39): Well, you can do this a couple different. I mean, the first thing I want to address is that I wouldn't separate them because you're giving them one experience and that experience costs this amount. Right? It's not like they get into like, does that make sense? Like, you're giving them one thing. I wouldn't try to separate them. It's going to just get too confusing because you're already giving them three choices and we know that people aren't going to naturally go to the middle choice. Right. So I would say something like if I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, right off the top of my head. It's like, you could do this a couple ways. Okay. So you could do it. You could have it on your website with deposits starting at 500 or 800. Right? So this is why we need to have like the process, like the flow, the sales flow in which you're taking on those clients. So they either come to your website and they're going to see starting at 2,500 that's one option, it'll say deposits starting at 500, or there's going to be an option. Like, are you interested? Like give us a call.

(30:43): Yeah.

(30:44): And what you're doing right now, and kind of like where you want to go with your business, which one makes,

(30:48): It's the most sense for you? I think what is most congruent with where I currently am? Is it also because we can't ignore competition also? What other people around here are doing problems with positive starting at. Yeah. Because everybody else just does a lower entry point.

(31:09): I want to do that too. I like it. Like how I'm hearing this. And what I think is worth trying is sticking with like deposit, starting out as low as like 500, right. Then as you get them on the phone, I would address that the payment, you could either do a pay in full option. You could do that. You could do a pay, you could do a well painful, quite what makes sense,

(31:29): Because you're just helping them choose. I'm just thinking

(31:33): It's like now I'm trying to acre 500 to something, right? Because going up from 500 to 2,500 on the phone, still do most people do a PM plan with you? Or do they pay up

(31:44): For products? Most people do a payment plan. It's like 60, 40, 70, 30 payment plan, depending on time of year. Do you know Ben Hartley in the group? He

(31:57): Runs the six-figure photographer podcast. He's a good friend of mine. And he's he runs in this group and we should ask him what he does. Cause he does like wedding photography. So like big spenders, right? Like it might

(32:09): Getting his opinion on,

(32:10): I'll ask him for us and get his opinion on like when, at what point does the customer hear that? Like it's $2,000 in potential product.

(32:21): Yeah. So I did that is in an email that they get, I say, Hey, my average client sends this. So it's on their mind. But I think the way that it becomes easier is because initially they don't think that they can look beautiful, but when they see their products or at least hoping that they're willing to spend more. So that has been how I've done it before. So you have this low entry point. If you really hate them, you don't have to buy a whole lot. But so it kind of gives them an out, I feel like, but

(32:56): Yeah, so you get to DePaul, you say like deposit starting at two or 500 and then give them the anchor to 5,000 to as low as 2000 and additional

(33:06): You can expect to spend. Okay. So you're angry into the 5,000. You can say, as far as how high is 5,000

(33:13): Or, you know, our lowest package offer is that 2000, but most people are going to say,

(33:17): You know, 2,500. Okay.

(33:20): Yeah, because you're on the right track with getting them in the frame of mind. Like I'm going to spend money and I'm going to spend this much, but we're just shifting the pricing up and we're rearranging the actual office.

(33:31): So I have to tick off all the cart digitals and what you're saying,

(33:34): No, if they want the Allah cart, they can buy the whole digital package with the elbow.

(33:41): Okay. Does that make sense? Okay.

(33:43): This is like another thing, like now that you're like making money, you're profitable, you can decide how you want to give generously. Right? So the more value that you, the more money you make, the more value you could give. So maybe you have like a one off session. Maybe you donate a session. Maybe you meet this woman and she's got a sappy, exceptional story where you can make an exception. Right. But like, that's on your terms. That's not how you're going to build the business and get to the profit that you need to support your family and make this like a real living for yourself.

(34:15): Yeah. Okay. What do you think? That's big. It's so good. It's been it's good.

(34:25): It's really good. So just to drive the point home, well here, let me ask you, what are you learning? What are you hearing me say?

(34:31): So I think I've heard this a lot and it's something I just haven't done is I need to drive home the value and I've listened to your podcast so much. And you say this all the time. I'm not trying to sell the product or the price. I'm trying to sell the solution to their pain. And I don't focus on that enough. And I think it's just because like, honestly, I haven't had a lot of calls lately. And so I need to figure out how to get people on more calls so that I can get at their pain and present myself as a solution.

(35:03): Well, in total transparency, the questionnaire that you filled out to get on this phone call with me, I use that for content today. I use that in my email. I like no names or nothing, but I use your answers just between the two

(35:19): I used your answers as content marketing now. So there are ways that you can ask your clients in a followup interview when they get on the phone with you to like tease out that information. So you can use it in your own marketing because your marketing response to what your audience is saying, right. So you have to make sure there's a message marketing match, and you don't have to like pull off or try to convince them or create these problems. They don't have, like, they'll tell you, don't literally tell you. And so you can find ways in your sales process to like, get that information. So it doesn't have to be like this formal thing where like, Oh, I got to call this person and get this answer, interview them here. Right, right. So I would start there. I would go back to your previous clients and I would ask them to describe like, why they wanted this and what it was important.

(36:06): And just hear what they're saying and also hear what they're not saying and see if you can't tease out some of their answers. So when you are in conversation about to sell these products, you can sort of like a seed. Like it's there it's because some people don't always know what their problem is or they just really like the photos and they can't quite describe it. You can sort of subtly guide the conversation with clues, like, okay, my clients have felt, this is that similar. Do you feel this currently, some clients have described it. You know, I have have gone and said this, like, is that how you're feeling? Right. As you can kind of put words, so what they're thinking and feeling, and they'll tell you if you're on the right track. Okay. So I know that this is getting long. I have to run. I have a hard stop at two, but what's the first thing that you're going to do now? Like what are you going to do starting the first day is I'm going to go change my pricing. I'm not exactly sure how yet, but I can definitely see how I'm undercutting my own costs for sure. By the way it's structured. And then I need to figure out how to get people in

(37:07): Phone. Yeah.

(37:09): The first email I sent to them always is like, Hey, can you book a call so we can chat? And people normally don't

(37:17): Like maybe one in seven

(37:19): Or one in 10, actually book a call.

(37:22): Sure.

(37:23): I can say about that. I can say about getting the people on the phone call, but essentially what you're trying to do is once they've expressed need, like, you're literally just saying something along the lines of like, thank you so much for reaching out. Like, let me go ahead and give you a call or do you can their phone, like, are they filling out a form? Let me ask you that I get their number. Yeah. And then you send them a text.

(37:46): I can yeah.

(37:47): Like Sonoma texted. Hey, I just got your form. I have a few questions for you. Are you okay if I give you a call around, you know, Monday at two or eight? So what you're doing is if you just say open endedly, like, Hey, like let's go on the phone and talk. It's like one, like there is no good time to talk. Right? And you're like, what are we going to talk about? So what you have to do is you have to get into the mind of your, like the person, which is let's focus on a good time. And here's two options. I'll make it super easy for you. It's no pressure. It literally is just kind of what I did here. I'm really honest conversation about what you need and if I can help you great, if not, no big deal, right? It's still be great to connect with you because this is where those referrals are going to come from.

(38:28): If he can't pay you and you still do your due diligence, they're going to refer you in those moments. Right. That's great. Yeah. We can absolutely talk about that later too. But for now, like I think if you can get them to focus on when's a good time, here's two convenient options or you just gotta like pick one, it's going to be, you'll have a higher bookie, right. Then at least 50%. Yeah. That's good. Thank you. Okay. You are so welcome. Don't be a stranger. If you need us, you know that we have the, we have like a month to month membership early, like right now it's like a six month membership. If you want ongoing support, don't be a stranger. We're happy to get you pumped in there if you want extra support, but be familiar face in this group. You're a good company. Awesome. Thank you so much. This was great. Really great. Cool. I'll talk to you soon. Bye.

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