Have a podcast in 30 days

Welcome to the “Making of a DM.” How to make shit happen. That's right, today I have my boy, Sean Whalen on today's episode, where we're going to break down the barriers and show you how to get out there and make shit happen. So, with that said, let's get started.

Mark: All right, we're live. What's up, everybody? It's your boy, Mark Evans DM here, coming to you from Parkland with my boy, Sean Whalen. What's up, Sean?

Sean: Hey, what is up?

Mark: How are you doing over there, man? Thanks for coming on. I know it's a little early over there, but I appreciate the dedication.

Sean: Top of the morning, baby, top of the morning. [0:01:00.8]

Mark: I know, right? So guys, as we're here today, beautiful Monday. Hope you guys are doing awesome. Hope you had a great weekend. I'm excited for this week. Today is my daughter… Actually, Friday is a big day. We've got the new book coming out, Magician vs. Mule, at 12:34 PM Eastern Standard Time. Plus, it's my amazing daughter, Dria’s birthday. She'll be one years old.

What's up, Jeremy? What's up, Adam? What's up, guys? Earnest, what does the DM stand for? Dealmaker, or dream maker if you're my mother. What's up, guys? What's up, McLeish? So, as I'm sitting here in Parkland, Florida, we’ve got Sean up in Utah over there, hanging out, doing his thing. What's he got?

Sean: You’ve got to be able to be the fucking coolest to have this shit coming out, you know what I'm saying?

Mark: Exactly.

Sean: You’ve got to get a screenshot of that.

Mark: I love it, man. It's awesome, man.

Sean: Several digits right here, yeah.

Mark: Perfect.

Sean: What’s up, my man?

Mark: No, man, so Sean, I wanted to have you. Obviously, we’ve got a lot of craziness going on and I like to talk about the real talk stuff. I know a lot of people are a little delusional as to what they think is going on or what they're hearing, as you know. [0:02:08.8]

And, listen, I'm not here to say that COVID is not a real thing or not a real thing, but is it being blown out of proportion is a whole different story and why, so I just wanted to bring it out here. As you know, we've got a lot of business people here. We’ve got tons of business experience on your side and still we're grinding every day. By the way, how this business over there?

Sean: Business is booming right now.

Mark: I know, for us, too.

Sean: It’s doing really, really, really well. Six months ago, a year ago, and I'm like, Hey, y'all need to get your house in order. You need to get your business square. You need to be rolling now. Ah. Now…now they're like, Oh shit, that guy was right.

Mark: I should've listened to him.

Sean: Listen.

Mark: Yeah. Sean, I wanted to real quick give a quick background. Sean and I met on social media a while ago. I don't remember how many years ago now. Actually, Sean wrote a book, How to Make Shit Happen, and so you're selling this stuff like gangbusters, which is awesome, but there's a section in the book where yours truly… Look at that. [0:03:08.5]

Sean: I put only two pictures in that book. You’ve got to tell the story, though. There's only two pictures in my book. No, it's not a coloring book, y'all. It's a good book. We just crossed 400,000 copies. There’s really only two pictures in the book. You want to tell the story or you want me to tell them the story?

Mark: Tell them, man. I like it.

Sean: The first time that Mark and I actually met face to face, face to face, where were we?

Mark: We were on a yacht in the Caribbean.

Sean: We were on a big-ass 100-foot fucking yacht in the Caribbean. Who would believe that story, man? They're like, Come on.

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: What brought you and I together I think is the cigars, right?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: Somehow an affinity for cigars. You were in real estate. I bet somehow our paths crossed on social media, and you like cigars and I like cigars. We just started messaging back and forth like, Hey, dude, you like cigars? What’s your favorite cigar? What's up, man? I like these, right? And if you look at your cell phone or my cell phone, you're always texting me. I'm always texting you. I'm smoking a cigar. You're with baby DM. You're with Deena. I'm rolling down the street, smoking a cigar and be like, Dude, have a dope day. [0:04:08.3]

People don't realize, it's like you and I literally connected through social media over cigars, and the first time that you and I hung out twice now on multi, multi multimillion-dollar yacht in the Virgin Islands because of social media. But that's the first time Mark and I actually connected face to face. It was on fucking yacht.

Mark: Exactly, and it's just staying connected. I think a lot of times people are like, Oh dude, just shooting a message. It's not like, Hey, Sean, what's up, man? I love your stuff. By the way, what's up blah-blah? and asking you 80,000 questions to lead. It was more just like, Yo, man, hey, boom, boom, and we did this for a long time. It was…

Sean: Yeah.

Mark: So, we just connected and…

Sean: Adding value.

Mark: Adding…go figure. That's amazing how that works, right?

Sean: It's funny how literally, and this is what I love about our friendship, it just started pure. I didn't need anything from you. You didn't need anything from me. It was like, Dude, I tried a new cigar and I'd send it to you. You're like, I'm going to try this. You’d try and disregard. I mean, you got me on the Tabacs like, You’ve got to try these Tabacs. I’m like, Holy shit, this thing is fire, right? [0:05:09.7]

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: Just adding value back and forth. And then that ends up in, Hey dude, I'm going to be hanging out in the Virgin Islands. You want to come? And me and my girlfriend ended up coming down to the Virgin Islands and hanging out. it was like, boom, here we are a couple of years later, you know?

Mark: Yeah. It's amazing what happens when you, like you said, we just started adding value and talking and go from there. But, guys, I wanted Sean. You've done real estate and your story's amazing. Obviously, you shared the truth, which is why it's fire and people love it. But you want to talk real quick about what you got going on and we’ll get to the party started.

Sean: Yeah, dude, business is really good right now. I started realizing actually a couple of years ago in the midst of kind of my rebirth, if you will, coming from kind of a top of the mountain, crashing down and going through a bankruptcy, going through a divorce. And it's growing like crazy, man.
It's really surprising, especially now this whole virus shit, whatever you want to call it, it really exposed a lot of people to a lot of things and a lot of the stuff that I've been talking about the last couple of years are starting to make sense to people. [0:06:12.3]

People are kind of going, Oh shit, maybe I should take my finances more seriously. Maybe I should put some cash in the bank. Maybe I should spend some time with my family. There’s a lot of dads who work 15-hour days who are home with your kids now and they're like, Fuck, I don't even know these little fuckers, you know what I'm saying? It's crazy.
So, for me right now, I'm just really focused on adding as much value as I can, expanding my business, getting multiple things up and running that we're doing with Lions Not Sheep. It's a good time, man. We're having a lot of fun. I'm having a lot of fun.

Mark: Yeah, no, for sure. I think it's definitely now. The time is now and what you’ve got going on over there, because, again, dude, you're talking real talk to people, like you said, on the finance side. You’ve got the Lions Not Sheep. Guys, by the way, Sean, that's a monthly group that you host. You have a private Facebook group and you're sending out amazing content weekly via email. [0:07:03.1]

Sean: Yeah.

Mark: And you guys have got more than that.

Sean: There's a couple of aspects of that. There's an online coaching group. We have about 650 people in there now, people all over the world, men, women, entrepreneurs, business owners. And then I do a lot of one-on-one coaching with a lot of one-on-one clients. A guy just came in the other day from North Dakota, oil industry. So, it's all about kind of reverse engineering. What I love to do is reverse engineering life. You and I've talked about this countless times. People are programmed how to build, build a big business, right? And then we try and fit our life into it.

Mark: Exactly.

Sean: If I have time, I'll do this. And I did that, worked 20 hours a day, flipped almost 4,000 houses, burned my entire world to the ground. I was 31 years old, going all right, as I said. I got all this money and shit and it's like a “I hate my life” kind of deal. So, I'm really enjoying the process of reverse engineering life and building my life, figuring out how much I can play, what I want to play with, where I want to go, what I want to do, and then building my business around that to serve that versus me serving the business. [0:08:01.6]

Mark: Yeah. No, I love that message about the business serving us. I think, too, this is a fun game to play. I don't think people realize once you understand that you're in control of all this and you can create, reverse engineer this life and build something that can serve you, it becomes a fun game to play. You can have money and you can have more money. You can have more time and even more. All these things you can start really creating.

Let's say, there are some sacrifices in some of these pieces, but, dude, you get what you want out of it, so if you're putting a lot into this effort, you're ultimately going to succeed on a whole other level. But I love the gamification, man. 75 HARD, I know you're doing that again. I just got done. Sean, I have to send you some pics on that. But I'm going to actually do a post today about it, but just doing it and just staying focused, actually I felt sad yesterday because yesterday was the first day.

Sean: I know, it’s crazy, huh? That process is moving out really, fuck.

Mark: Yeah, I felt sad. I'm like, Okay, I’ve got to wake up and something now, like what's up with that? But there's something to that when guys us, because we're ticking along such fast paces, even though it feels we're not doing anything, how do we [do it]? What are you doing on a daily basis? I know you wake up and talk about your morning ritual stuff. I think a lot of people can learn from that for sure. [0:09:12.9]

Sean: Yeah. You know what? I love seeing the comments in here. Coach Sean Whalen is the best and Sean Whalen’s coaching calls are insane. I love seeing that.

Without going too far down the rabbit hole, I mean, when I went through my midlife crisis, whatever you want [to call it], I don't know what it means, right? I left my marriage. I left my business. I was fucking depressed. I became suicidal. I had everything that people determined success being, right? I had the watches, the houses, the cars, the whole thing, and it wasn't about the money. It was about me. It was about me grinding and busting my balls every single day, but not really knowing why. Right? To buy all the shit? I had all that shit.

So, for me now it's understanding that my ticket is going to be punched, right? It doesn't matter how, and I love the business end of things as much as you do because it allows us to go to places like the Virgin Islands and chill on multimillion-dollar yachts. Right? [0:10:03.7]

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: I understand that my ticket is going to be punched. At the end of the day, we live in this world, this fantasy world really, where it's like, I'll do that when I retire. I'll do that down the road or I'll do that down the road.

I was in Baja. As you know, I race Baja chucks with my son. It’s something that I saw a couple of years ago. My buddy flew me down there. I watched him and his son. He’s a very, very, very wealthy business owner here in Utah, and I watched him and his son cross the finish line and the Baja 1000, and it got me super emotional. I was like, Fuck, man, that's the game. This is what I want to be doing with my son who’s a little gearhead motorhead. He loves riding dirt bikes and anything fast, right? I came home. I knew nothing about it. I bought this race truck and now we've raised Baja 500, Baja 1000.

But going back to your question, you could have a billion dollars. You could have $10 billion. And imagine being on your deathbed. You've busted your ass. You grinded. Hustled. I mean, shout out to Gary V. Grind, hustle, grind, hustle, grind, hustle, right? All fucking day long, 27 hours a day, Gary V's work. And I don't know how the fuck he finds a little time, but he's got it, right? [0:11:05.3]

But at some point in time, you're not going to be able to buy back the game. When you're talking about this gamification of life, how much can I really enjoy life? How many dope people can I go on boats with? How many rad people can I smoke cigars with? This idea that we have of being able to build the life we want. Where can I go with my kids? What races can I do? How often can I ride horses with my daughter? We're not programmed this way.

And so, for me it was reverse engineering saying this is what I really want. Because if you have a bet, I could hand you a billion dollars, Mark, and if you're on your deathbed, you can't be, Oh, well, I'm going to go back and I'm going to race this race. Let me go back and do the same, speaking about Bajas and where I was going with that. It's still early in the morning and I haven't had my cup of coffee.

I'm down in Baja last year, and my son and I are in Contingency, which is where our trucks go and we get passed off before the race, and this guy comes to me. Oh, Sean Whalen, I’ve been following you on social media, the whole thing. Long story short, Man, this has been on my bucket list for years to race this race. I was like, Go, dude, why don’t you do it? [0:12:02.3]
Well, I got some kids in college. My son and I want to race, but he's in college and we've got a daughter in college, and I'm X amount of time away from retirement. My wife and I, we want to buy this place down in whatever, whatever.

And I was like, Bro, I could introduce you to a company down here in Ensenada that for 15 grand gives you the race car, gives you the helmet, the thing that’s an entire package for you to race the Baja 1000. Would you even know if your 401(k), your IRA, your retirement account was 15k lighter tomorrow, if you wrote a check for 15k? He's like, Probably not. I said, That's the difference between me and you because you're waiting for this moment in time when now's the right time. And if you've noticed, Mark, everybody says that and that's something else, just lower the ceiling.

The COVID-19 shit shows up. Oh shit, it wiped me out. You are broke because of this now? You were broke way fucking before this fucking pandemic bullshit. My point is that's the difference. I realize that I might not have another Baja 1000. I might be dead this year. If that's the case, oh shit, here's a billion dollars and can somebody buy me back this time? No, you can't. [0:13:12.5]

And, so for me, the gamification is how much can I really ravage this life and do every fucking thing that I want to do before I die? How do I build a business that will support that? How do I build the life and become the father that allows me the time and the resources to be able to do that? So, that's that gamification for me. It’s how do I live as much of this life as I can?

Mark: No, I love it, man. I'm on the same page, dude. For 11 years of my life, man, I worked 18, 20 hours a day. I loved it. I didn't know. I didn't know it was wrong, by the way. That’s the thing.

Sean: I didn’t know the difference. That was what I was taught. That's what we were taught.

Mark: So, I didn't realize that, but that's why I talk about that in Magician vs. Mule, Sean. The book is coming out Friday. Dria turns one on Friday, so going to have a little birthday, so I'm excited for that. But I think the biggest thing in what we're talking about is the chain of questions. [0:14:02.7]

Sean and I are asking different questions. The results speak for themselves. If you ask certain questions, you're going to get that result. We're asking, How can I do this and also have that? Not like, Oh, I can't do that. You don't understand. But this is… It's not even a question. You're actually talking into it like saying I can't do it. That's not a question. That's a definite, “I can't.” You can do whatever you want, and I think what people don't realize is it might take longer to get it and it might be a different path, but the question is you've got to unlock it. You’ve got to open up a conversation with yourself, first and foremost, and then put it out to the world. Like Sean said, it cost 500 grand to buy this race truck to do the Baja 1000 XYZ. Well, no, dude, for 15 grand, it could be done. Now where's the excuse? Well…

Sean: That's exactly the point. I was talking about asking questions in my newsletter yesterday. I do a weekly newsletter that goes out every Sunday. It was exactly on this when we talk about asking questions. I said that specifically in my newsletter. [0:15:00.4]

I’m like, Forget the virus. Forget everything else, right? Forget it. Forget all the aspects of religion. Again, we can go down the rabbit hole with this. So few people ask any questions, period, at all, ever. I'm a father. I've got three kids, and when your kids say, Why? Because. Just shut up, because. Because I'm the dad and saying shut the fuck up. I’m 41 years old and I ask why more than an eight-year-old because I want to know. I realize the more I know, the more I learn, the less than really realize and understand what I really know.

So, I want to know, dude. I want to know the depths of the mysteries, and this isn't some hokey pokey, airy fairy, rub Christmas on your nipples, bullshit, your worst call really. But, now, dude, what are we really fucking doing here? What is this pain really about, right? I want to know these things. I want to know how I can build a better business, a bigger business, a more streamlined business, right?

And what's fascinating going with this whole pandemic thing, whatever you want to call it, no one asked any questions. It was like, Yo, we're all going to die. Go into your house, and people were like, Okay. They ran to get in their house. Shit, shut all the businesses. Okay. Shut all the fucking doors. [0:16:09.5]

It was like nobody was like, Hold up a second. This coronavirus thing, it's been on the side of Lysol cans for 30 fucking years. What are we talking about here? But it was like, No, you can’t. You’ve got to go now. Everybody ran. And it's like every aspect of life, the more questions you ask, the more you fucking learn by knowledge, by education, by listening. And if you're not asking anything and not getting any feedback, how are you growing your business? How are you becoming a better father? And how are you building a more ripped body, right? You train and you're like, Can I tweak this? Can I do this? My diet, whatever.

Dude, what you just said is more on point than anything else and that's the thing that's really fascinating. It’s how few people ask questions and how few questions those people are going to ask are acceptable. I don't know, don't ask. Don't ask the pastor why the book says this. Don't ask the business guy why this. Don't ask the potential client these questions kind of deal. It's fascinating how scared we are to ask. [0:17:07.1]

Mark: That's what it is, but they've been teaching us because, right? Their whole saying is curiosity killed the cat. No, every business person I know, guys like you, dude, I'm more curious today than I've ever been.

Sean: Me too.

Mark: I just want to know, Why did they use that word?

Sean: Me too, asking why.

Mark: That word means something. The thought audit that we have—I thought audit. I talk about this a lot, Sean, the thought auditing part—like, Where did this thought come from that I'm thinking this way or that way? Did that come from my mom, my dad, my grandma, my grandpa, their grandma, grandpa? Did they come from the Great Depression? Why? Why is this thought even in my brain? And, listen, is it serving me? Is it not serving me? Is it a good thought? Is it a bad thought? I mean, there's a lot of stuff here, but, dude, I think it's like why did curiosity kill the cat? Why do they even say that?

Sean: To go back to it and here's what's really scary. Anybody listening to this, you’ve got entrepreneurs, business owners, the entire thing, right? If you think about, I mean, you and I are the exact same age basically, go back to when we were kids, we were programmed this way. You were programmed this way down. Sit down. Quiet down. Slow down. [0:18:09.8]

I'm talking about this a lot with Lions Not Sheep. We were programmed to lie. We were programmed to be dishonest. Now, if I ask somebody, Are you a liar? Fuck, no, I’m not a liar. Do you tell people the truth? No, right, because I can't, because I can't talk about Trump and this and that and the other. Right? But when you really stop and think about this for two seconds, really contemplate this, we were programmed like this since we were little kids. We were programmed.

Dude, I'm not going to even shout it out. This is fucking legit. I feel I'm on CNN right now. You’ve got the thing and the ticker at the bottom. This is dope, dude. I like this.

Mark: You’ve got to use this thing while it’s available.

Sean: You’re being big time with this shit. But really think about this, going all the way back to when we were kids, we were programmed this way. If you asked Mom and dad a question, just because, because I said so. You hear that in all the places, you just don't ask any questions. You go talk to the pastor or the priest or the Bishop or whatever, whatever. I'm having these questions. What God wants you to do, just go do it. You ask the teacher, you raise your hand, just it's because, right? [0:19:07.9]

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: If you think through, that's how we're programming our kids. It's how we are. We morph into these adult bodies and these adult realities, we just quit asking questions. We just start following the masses. I mean, again, this whole experience happening right now in our society is a really good indicator of that. Nobody asked any questions. They said—they had the government, the media, CNN and the whole deal—run off the cliff, and everybody's run right off the fucking cliff, right? Not asking why are we running off the cliff? Where's everybody going? We're just going this way and everybody went. It's a really fascinating thing and I’m with you. The older I get, the more questions I ask.

Mark: Yeah. No, I think even if you have a job, understand there's agendas for it. We all have agendas and perception is reality, and it's at its highest reality right now, the perception. Sean, probably one of the most bizarre things, and this has happened five weeks ago and it seems like forever, it's the whole run on toilet paper. I'm still absolutely mesmerized by it. It makes no sense to me. [0:20:16.1]

Sean: The run on a what? What did you say? The run on what?

Mark: Toilet paper.

Sean: How do you say toilet paper?

Mark: Is that how you say it, toilet paper?

Sean: Toilet paper?

Mark: Toilet.

Sean: I thought you said it differently. It was good. Keep going. Keep going. I like it.

Mark: I’m a hillbilly, man. Look at me accomplishing. But, no, I think at the end of the day, it's like, as a sheep, as you would say, how do they stop and say. You guys … something else?

Sean: Why don’t I need to grab toilet paper? Why am I making a fucking 87-year-old man get a four pack? Dude, this shows you exactly what you and I have been talking about for a long period of time. I don't even remember a news article. I don't remember a news article. I don't remember people going, Oh shit, China shut down the toilet paper. We're never going to have anymore, and people ran out. I don't remember ever seeing that. [0:21:03.3]

All of a sudden, it just became a fad, a thing, oh shit, and everybody was running out, grabbing for the paper. It was like, Does this thing make you shit yourself? It's not like I’m going to explode and I need 8,000 rolls of toilet paper. Dude, it's really, really, really funny. Actually, it's sad, but really funny.

Mark: Agreed.

Sean: And I think about technology and the power of the technology, but you ask somebody why they bought toilet paper, they can't tell you, probably won’t be able to tell you. What's fascinating is you ask a Catholic, an average Catholic, what Catholicism is, they can't really tell you. You ask somebody, What do you do? What do you mean what do I do? You know what I'm saying?
Probably people that have not stepped back missed something that I did a couple of years ago. It was after I went through this entire experience like, What do I really want? Who am I? What am I really fucking doing here? You know what I mean? I ask myself a question every single day, countless times a day, What do you want? [0:22:01.7]

My clients know that this is one of the main foundational principles of my business. It’s helping people answer that question, What do you want? Probably asked myself that question a thousand times a day. I'm having this experience. I'm feeling this way. My girlfriend dumped me, blah-blah, whatever the fuck it is. I'm like, All right, what do you want? What do you want? Do you really want to punch this guy in the face because he just cut you off? No, I really don't want to punch the guy in the face. What do I really want?

But asking myself that question, I think what's really fascinating is, again, going back to the question, did anybody stop and say, Why am I stealing this toilet paper out of this person's cart? Did anybody stop and say, Why am I going into the Porta Potties and stealing toilet paper?

Mark: No, dude, I don't think people are trained to ask questions. In high school, I remember if I was asked a question, it was called cheating, because I'm asking the person beside me what the answer is. There's no collaboration. There's no thought processing. There's no, Hey, you're better at math than I am. I'm better at English than you are. We should probably come together and work together, and be bigger together. Instead, they're like, No, this is your lane. Stay in it. Don't talk. Don't look. Just go. And it's like where's the opportunity for collaboration here? [0:23:10.0]

What I'm seeing, too, Sean, is in a lot of people, insecurities have risen to the top at the highest level right now. People are constrained. They're freaking out. They don't know what else to do except to attack. Their insecurities, I mean, it's getting really bad. It's like it's going to take over.

And I think as business owners, and it's not that business owners are better than anybody, but we have real insecure conversations with ourselves all the time. You’ve worked with a lot of business guys and, again, I don't care if they're making a lot of money or a little money, you're still insecure. You're still having these anxiety attacks. You're like, Oh my God, this is the one that's taking me down. Your heart's beating a hundred miles per hour. So, I think we do have it a little bit more. What this comes down to is awareness, right? Why am I feeling this way? What did I do? Again, questions.

Sean: Being aware. But I also think, and this is something that I know that you'll echo and entrepreneur is the same, you will pay to fuck up because you've done it before. A lot of people are like, Oh, I'm afraid to fail. No one's afraid to fail. Here's why—how many of you listening to this have failed before? [0:24:17.1]

Mark: Everybody.

Sean: How many of you are like me and you’ve failed a fuck ton of times? You’ll double fist this one, right?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: People aren't afraid to fail. What they're afraid of is being judged. And so, it goes back to that reality that you and I realize. I was going to mastermind last year and paid 25k for it, digital mastermind, whole bunch of really smart digital people, the whole thing. I couldn't figure this one thing out. Somehow I couldn't get my strength accounts to connect to this portal that we had put up and I was racking my brain. I couldn't get it figured out. Here I was part of this group of all these smart motherfuckers and I felt like I was like [dumb]. I didn't want to ask because, gosh, I'm going to be dumb. This is supposed to be simple. Right? I couldn’t find it.

I go into the group when I finally asked the question and people were, Oh shit, I've tried to do that, too. I don't know. There were 50 people that didn't know either, so I was like, Shit, I'm not the only one. [0:25:06.9]

You and I are not afraid to ask dumb questions and that's the difference, right? The real difference is people stop and they're like, I'll just keep trying and trying and trying and trying, and the definition of it is banging your head against the wall [trying to get] different results. I'm not afraid to look dumb, if you will. You're not afraid to look dumb.

So, as an entrepreneur, I think what we have found is, if we want this result, we're going to ask the question. If I'm in the gym and I'm telling my trainer this is this or this is that, if he gives me a solution, I'm going to get a different place than the guy who was like, I'm not going to say anything because I'm going to look dumb.

So, you have to understand that when you're an entrepreneur and you're a business owner, the timeframe that you spend not asking questions, not getting the answers that you need, it's insanity. It's what's keeping you back from being successful, from having that fire, whatever. You and I are way more prone to look dumb to get the answer that we want. [0:26:03.0]

Mark: Yeah, and not only that, define what dumb looks, right? I think here's the truth. Guys, we're getting judged no matter what. If you're failing, what does failing mean? Here’s what's interesting about it. You're going to get judged if you're failing, which doesn't serve you, and you're going to get judged when you're reaching it and you're winning, and that serves you. You're getting judged no matter what. It’s just we put a different weight on each one. It’s in a negative way or a positive way.
The truth is most people, and it’s just because we live in America, most people hate us because we're white. Most people hate us because we have a beard. Who knows why they hate us? That's them judging us, not me judging them. I don't have that judgment thing in my head. The only thing I do judge is that ask questions, Sean, that don't do anything with the answers. That's an asshole, right?

Sean: Absolutely.

Mark: They're just asking questions to sound cool and be in front of people. You know the difference as you're growing and developing. Some people just want to ask questions to be heard without doing anything to do it, to take the action on it. So, when Sean and I are asking questions or people like you and me, we're asking questions, we genuinely want to know the answer so we can actually go execute and get a result, and I think that's the difference. [0:27:11.1]

Sean: Totally agree, and what you just said is dead on. It’s something that I talk about all the time. No matter where you go, no matter what you do, you're going to be judged. People are terrified of being judged. You're not afraid of failing. Most people listening to this have lost money before, right? So, you're not really afraid of losing money because you've already done it, right? Most people have struggled with some sort of being down on a depression in some way, shape or form, and you're not afraid of it. You're afraid of being judged for talking about it.

What people don't realize is exactly what you just said. If you're fat, it's because you're a lazy piece of shit, right? If you're ripped, it's because you're on steroids. You’ve got to be taking steroids, right? If you're poor, you're lazy; you're undisciplined. And if you're rich, you're selling snake oil and you're totally ripping people off. It's like no matter where you go on the spectrum of life, no matter where you're playing the game, somebody's going to fucking judge you, period.
They're going to judge me, Oh, he's ripped. You how many times. Last year I had spine surgery. You know this. I got ripped, but it's 75 HARD. I took the challenge of my body and, for the first time in my life, I have six pack ever. He's taking steroids. He’s ripped from taking steroids. Every time I post a picture, steroids, steroids, steroids. I’ve figured out an answer to this. You want to hear my answer next time? [0:28:17.2]

Mark: I’d love to.

Sean: If I hear, You're ripped because it’s steroids, if that was the case, if that was true, if steroids got you ripped, why are you still fat, bro? I asked this guy this question and I was like, If all it takes is sticking a needle in my ass to get my six pack, then why are you still fat? Every man in America would take that shot if that’s all it took. So, it's impossible that it's not just steroids? You’ve just got to throw an answer back at it, and they're like, Fuck, man, I could, too, right? But people are terrified of being judged.

You're going to be judged no matter what. You roll up in a Bentley, you roll up in a Ferrari, you roll up in a fucking Ford pickup truck, people are going to judge the shit out of you, periods. Once you get past that and realize that, and really wrap your head around that, because I was stuck in that after I lost millions of dollars when the market crashed and I was terrified because I was being judged and the whole thing. [0:29:08.0]

Then I realized no matter want I fucking do, everybody, people are going to judge me anyways, so I might as well do the shit I want to do. That's how I found happiness that way versus trying to live this life where I'm living it based off all of these other people's rules and judgments.

Mark: That's the thing, dude. Happiness is a very funny thing, right? I'm chasing happiness. I'm not trying to chase the money and all that other stuff. I think a lot of people are defining happiness off the wrong thing now. It's like, Oh, I have a new car. I'm happy. Oh, I have… I can tell you right now, if I go buy a new car today, I'll be happy for a nanosecond and move on. It doesn't make me happy. It's more of an accomplishment.

Again, I think people don't understand their emotions, right? You would know this way better than me, but it’s an emotional thing. Happy to me is when I wake up and I see my kids smiling and playing, and that has nothing to do with money or any of that stuff. I’m happy being in the moment and being there, and knowing that I'm going to push hard, bust my ass and do the right thing and treat, teach them the right stuff. [0:30:04.9]

When I'm talking with my financial guys, they're like, How much money do you want to leave your kids? I'm like, Dude, I don't care about leaving them money. I want it to leave it in their brain. I want to instill success. I want to instill positive affirmations. I want to instill being a good person, open the door, say yes ma'am, thank you ma'am, all that. To me, that's success. It has nothing to do [with money]. Money? Money is just a tool, guys. I think people get this confused, right?

Sean: Coupons. They're just fun coupons. That's all they are.

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: And people say I'm an asshole for saying that, but you're dead-on right. I mean, it goes back to, What do you want? What do you want? Real talk? I don't want to work. I don't want to work.

Mark: Who does?

Sean: They don’t and most students would be like, Well, you know, that's impossible. You can’t not work. Really? You said this earlier. You can build whatever you want. You legitimately can build whatever you want in this life. Right?

Mark: Absolutely.

Sean: You stop and think about it, What do you really want? You answer that question, you find happiness. You keep living life, building shit based off what everybody else says, what everybody else is doing, and you'll live, literally live a miserable existence. You buy a car because homeboy bought a car, you're not going to feel good. You buy a car because you want to buy a car, different racket, you know what I'm saying? [0:31:18.2]

But when you answer that question, What do you really want? that's where you start getting happy. For me, that’s where I was happy where I didn't have to fit in this mold. Hustle, grind, hustle, grind, hustle, grind. I have to compete with Gary V. I don't want to work 27 hours a day, Gary. I don't.

Mark: Exactly.

Sean: I don’t want to fucking work 29 hours a day. I don't know how you do it. I don't want that. Shit, Gary is pumping out 8,000 videos a day. I got to pump on 8,000 videos a day. It doesn't make me happy. What makes me happy? Riding dirt bikes with my kids, racing races, hanging out with you, getting a phone call going, Yo, you want to go to the Virgin Islands and hang out on a yacht? I'm like, Let me check my schedule. Yes, I can do it. You know what I'm saying? That’s the kind of life that I want. That makes me happy. [0:32:00.0]

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: Build that. You know what I'm saying? Some people don't have an answer to that question, and when they don’t, that’s when you get miserable. That's when you fucking get depressed because you’ve got to do it for the mom and the dad, and the family and the family's legacy, and carrying everything on and all sorts of stuff. Yeah, man.

Mark: But I think it's emotional fortitude, just understanding your emotions, what they're telling you, because like you said, I don't want to work today, but the answer to me, it's going to get me a stepping stone. I enjoy helping people doing all that and I know you do, too, but if it's like, Hey, you can make a million dollars and help me, or hang out with your kids like it's your last time, I'm hanging out with kids, dude, all day. The money would not do anything. It's not changing anything, and I'm not saying I'm about not having money, by the way. I want as much money as humanly possible.

Sean: Me too. I want a shit ton of cash.

Mark: Yeah, so I think it's always funny. People are like, I was listening to Sean and Mark and he said it's not about the money. Money is a tool, again. Why else would you work hard? Why else would you take away from the things we love doing every moment? It’s a tool. [0:33:05.0]

Sean: When you get to that space, man, when you can answer that question truthfully, right? I've built my businesses because it was ego straight up, I'll just tell you. When I was in my early twenties and I was making a hundred grand a month, and I could walk into any jeweler and buy any Rolex that I wanted, and I walked past the Malibu dealership and I bought the freaking $150,000 ski boat, I built it because of that, right? I built it purely out of ego.

And being a little further in life and having the experiences of making a lot of money and losing a lot of money, I realize now that it's not about that cash. It's about the freedom. It's about what do I legitimately want? I don't want to spend 20 hours a day in an office because I can be in a magazine and look really, really cool, because at some point in time that racket is going to end and the things that are most important to me are not found there. It’s not found in that.

And so, I answer that question, What do I want? I want to live my life. And what does that mean? That means I want to be able to wake up and do whatever the fuck I want every single day. I don't want to have to be accountable to a boss or to a hierarchy of sorts. Okay, cool, what does that look like? I’ve got to build my own businesses, run my own companies and be in charge of that. Cool. You know what I mean? [0:34:14.2]

You start going down the path of this deal. What do I want financially? You know what I mean? I don't want to leave my kids a ton of shit. I don't want to have a ton of money in the bank. I don't need it, right? I want to have cash flow to be able to afford my lifestyle. My lifestyle is going to cost this. Legitimately, this is the conversation of answering, What do you want? How much money do you want? This is what my lifestyle is going to cost. Exponentially, if I buy this kind of ratio versus this kind of ratio. Cool, then go build that, right?

It’s like when we talk about the money game, dude, there's dudes that have way more fucking money than me. Andy Frisella, dear friend, a guy we both know, has way more money to me, makes way more money than me. Why are we cool, right? You probably make way more fucking money than me. Why are we cool? Because we don't talk about that shit. We’re talking about life and growing and expanding in answering that question, What do we want? Right? [0:35:02.5]

But the money aspect, it's like once you figure out what you want, you actually figure out what you're really good at. You actually go through that process. You're like, This is what I want. Okay, what kind of business does that look like? It needs to look like this. I really like doing this. Okay, great. Instead of being, I'm trying to fit my desires and my life and my dreams into my existence after I go build this, have the 401(k), do all this shit that everybody else who's miserable is doing.

That's a fucking hard concept for people to wrap their heads around because it's not like I don't save a ton of money. I invest a ton of money, right? I invest X amount of money into some long-term vehicle, but instead last year I invested in a restaurant, right? There's all of these moving pieces of like, What do I really want? I want to live today. I want to live today to its fullest. Does that mean I just go cash out everything? No. But what I do know is that I'm living a life that I truly love, and so I will continue to generate wealth and income because I'm doing what I truly love. Does that make sense? [0:36:05.2]

Mark: Dude, I get it, man.

Sean: They're afraid to leave and take a risk. Fucking dumb because if you're good at your nine to five, if you went and got a degree in lighter making and you got a nine to five job making lighters, it's really a bummer. It's a bummer. I'm out of fucking gas here, sir, I'll tell you, if that's what…you know what I'm saying? When you figure that out, where was I going with that? Fuck.

Mark: It’s going to be a good one.

Sean: Anyways, when you get to that place where you can actually determine what it is that you want and you're really fucking good at it, you can build that business around it. You can create that lifestyle. You can create the wealth. You can create the income that you want to have. And it's not about having stacks and stacks and stacks of cash. It’s like I know that I can continue to build things doing what I love to do. When you have that space, you don't have to be accounting to somebody else and trying to do all of these things just because it's what everybody else is doing. Does that make sense? [0:37:00.8]

Mark: No, it makes a ton of sense, man. I think the biggest thing is, like Sean said, we know a lot of people make a lot more money than I make or he makes. It's not about that. The truth is I think you need to fail. You need to get punched in the face and realize, Oh my gosh, I don't like that feeling, to keep progressing. People that are successful did not just wake up and become successful. They failed. They prodded. They’ve figured out what they like, don’t like.

I like cars. That doesn't mean… The interesting thing about what we're talking about, I could buy any car I've got right now with cash in my bank. I have zero desire to buy a car today, zero. But I dream about buying a car. I still like looking at them. I still like getting excited about them, putting it on the thought process. But, to me, it's like, okay, I buy it and now I'm going to get a new battery every year because I forget to put it into the charger, and then I've got to deal with it. I put a hundred miles on it. I don't even drive the cars I already have. It's all this stuff.

So, does that make me happy? Actually, it makes me happy to buy it because it accomplished a goal, but it doesn't make me happy for the long-term because it creates anxiety if that's an extra thing I’ve got to take care of. There's no right or wrong. It's just what do you want? I'm not trying to press Sean. I'm not trying to press Andy. I'm not trying to press anybody. When you really live, when you're trying to impress yourself, we actually want to hang out with each other more, because we're like two… [0:38:14.8]

Sean: It's true, man.

Mark: It’s wild.

Sean: It’s true, and when you talk about impressing each other, what I love about our dynamic and the dynamic of the dudes I’m talking about is you're impressed by things, but you celebrate stuff too, man. When you bought your watch, right?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: That was a big deal. I remember it was a big fucking deal and having it be a big deal to you became big deal to me because I'm like, My dude is winning, right? My fuck pack is winning. When I show up down to Florida and we're hanging out, and you pull up in the Rolls, I'm like, My dude is winning, right?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: There's never like, Oh man, Mark got that watch. Shit, man. That's something that people really -

Mark: I think you're onto something.

Sean: - started that conversation all the time, as I was saying, because that's so important, man. So important. It’s looking at what your friends are doing, adding value to it, extracting value from it as much as you can, and learning and observing, whatever, whatever, but really being fucking happy for people when they're winning, you know what I'm saying? [0:39:13.1]

And this is what's really fascinating to me in the coaching space and I know you know how people are in real estate. Dude they want to come in and do what you do and have what you have, but paying the dues and doing all those steps, it's not necessarily where they want to be. But not really being able to celebrate with other people, I don't want to call it the secret, one of the secrets of success, whatever, call it whatever you want, a little principle or a little nugget between Mark and I, but when you get really fucking grateful and really excited about other people winning, legitimately winning, dude, that elevates you into a whole new level of consciousness, a whole new level of expertise, of power, of being able to create your own shit. That’s something that I'm radically passionate about. It’s watching my clients win, having them say, I did this, having them say, I did that. [0:40:01.3]

Last year I had one of the more powerful moments of my business career with one of my clients who called me after he left IKEA. He was at IKEA and he spent 600 bucks, and he called me and was super emotional. He was like, Dude, the fact that I could walk in and out of IKEA and spend $600 on new furniture for my family, I've never been able to do this before in my life. I had built a business, went through bankruptcy, lost a lot of his mojo the way that I did.

Then I was like, Fuck, dude, that's so dope. That is so badass. You know what I mean? It drove me, just gave me such a crazy and seeing rush of excitement for him. Something that people need to take note of is really, really, really celebrating other people's wins. There's no greater feeling, but there's no greater mojo put into your own world than that.

Mark: Yeah, I mean, why would one thing that they could get…? Say, if you were to see a successful person, but you talk shit about him 24/7, why would you think you could ever get that? Because if you do that, it does not connect with the dots, and you're never going to have success because you're too busy talking shit about someone else. And why would you? You don't want that? No one does. You don't want people talking about you. [0:41:14.0]
So, I think at the end of the day, if you're following someone and you see them post a car and you get mad, unsubscribe from them. Don’t--

Sean: Totally.

Mark: They're stealing from your joy. It doesn't make sense. And not only that, you need to work on yourself because, like Sean said, I want you to win. It doesn't take away from me winning if you win, by the way. There's no winning, losing in this conversation. It's how do we all win together? How do we all get a piece of pie and make the piece of pie big? We can all win and globally. It's the best thing. It’s what I've discovered in where we're at in my life. When I see someone win, and by the way, I don't care if it's $10 or $10 million or $100 million, I'm excited because you're winning.

Sean: Dude, you buying a $100,000 watch, my dude picks up $600 worth of IKEA furniture, when you can legitimately be in that space, man, I think it shows not only the maturity, your own personal maturity, but it shows your real aspect of gratitude for life. [0:42:12.8]

Because, I mean, I've had a ton of money and I've had no money, right? I've been broke. I've been on the top of the mountain. I’ve had a million dollars sitting in my bank account. I've had no dollars sitting in my bank account. When I look at my friends and I see people win, it motivates me and inspires me more than I say, Oh shit, I want this or I deserve this, the entire victim mentality deal. That's something that's really, really, really powerful for me. It's something that I know that my circle of people feels the same way on, you know what I mean? You post a picture of me with my shirt off, for example, tongues would be off, yeah, a bunch of “posted another one. Here we are again” kind of thing. Those are a bunch of grumpy, miserable fucks.
You look at who likes it, you look at who applauds it, it's the same. It's the people that have done the deal. People don't realize how hard it is to have a six pack, to be able to keep a six pack at 41 years old, with a fucked up body and you’ve just had spine surgery, they’ll be like, Yo… {clapping}[0:43:04.1]

Mark: Absolutely.

Sean: That's real shit. You just do the work there, you know what I'm saying? Being able to buy a watch, your watch, and saying, Yo, that was a big deal mentally, emotionally. I know what it takes to do that. I did the same thing with my race truck. I was like, Oh shit, I've got to buy this race truck and it’s this much money, but if I kept it here and da-da-da. Overcoming a lot of these things and surrounding yourself with people that are going to celebrate your wins, really celebrate, dude, in my opinion, there's no better feeling than that, being able to win and having a tribe of people behind you and being like, Well done, bro, and legit meaning it, you know what I'm saying?

Mark: Yes, I do. I mean, gratitude is the biggest thing. I think just being grateful to wake up, being grateful to… One thing I'm not good at is asking, Sean, even asking you to be here. It’s always weird to me because I don't like to call favors, and you and I have talked about this same thing.

It’s just weird to me because, dude, he's busy. I'm busy. We're all busy. Everyone's busy, by the way. But if we can help each other grow and get our message out that we can share like I want to be valuable to him. I want him…that's where I think it comes down to. [0:44:10.2]

Instead of hating, how do you create with people? How do you talk them up? How do you guide them like, Hey, man, I see you're faltering over here on your video. I could do that for you. Let me help you out and make it better, you know what I mean? There's so much. We all have value, and I think if you're focusing on what you don't have, you're going to constantly keep getting it.

Sean: Right, fully agree.

Mark: Yeah. Sean, one thing you said is what's interesting to me real quick about this pandemic thing is this handout, this $1,200 thing. I'm absolutely mesmerized. I sit back in awe and shock. Dude, they just gave people $1,200 that don't even know how to manage the money they make, let alone manage money they've been given. I'm thinking about investing in Apple stock or Nike stock now because what else are they going to do? They're going to buy new iPhone and new shoes? That's what I think is going to happen.

Sean: They're doing that. They're just doing that. I ain’t judging. That's exactly what’s fucking happened. [0:45:02.9]

Mark: It’s like people are complaining that everything is bad and it's not working. Everyone I know, talking about her name, she still has her job. They both got their money. They're not going out to eat and getting wasted with buddies and friends, and that's it, they do it, but they have more money than I've ever had now. My thought process is now what are you going to do with it? And that's a question you should be investing in yourself, number one, but I think it's just going to be consumer buying spree galore.

Sean: Totally, man. You can go down this whole rabbit hole on this, how it works. It's the same mentality, I don't want to say the same people. It's the same mentality of people that are like, Oh, I'm getting my tax refund back. It's like you do know that that's your money, right? You’re getting excited like, The government, yeah, they're giving me money. It's like, nah, dude, that's money that's been yours that they took and used to make more money, and they're just throwing you some crumbs back. You understand that, right? It's the same mentality. The exact same people are like, Yeah, $1,200. [0:46:05.7]

I think the bigger conversation around this is really, really, really exposing, and you and I both know that you want to know where you're really playing. You want to know what you're really playing with. Drop your drawers. When the tide goes out, you find out what everybody's playing with, right? The fact that so many people, number one, needed and/or had to have this money from the big man to keep their life going is really fucking scary.

Further than that, the fact that people miss one paycheck or two paychecks and literally crumbled financially, couldn't pay bills and shit, needed their rent paid, that's a really fucking scary thing and that's something that beyond the $1,200 needs to be addressed in every facet.

If you're watching this and I know probably not many people are in that scenario, but if you are, you better step back because now is your time to really change the game. If you literally went from, I think I’m going to no money in missing one or two paychecks, your problem is way fucking bigger than $1,200. [0:47:14.6]

Mark: Way bigger.

Sean: That needs to be addressed. It’s like, how many people? Even businesses, straight up, even businesses that had the culture to it, bro, it hasn’t even been six weeks now.

Mark: I know.

Sean: It’s like a month. They're fucking freaking the fuck out in two weeks? What does that say about you, friend? If we had a real problem, a big problem, a real pandemic or real sickness, real deal that lasted two, three, four, five, six months, what the fuck does that tell you? People would be screwed?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: Screwed. That’s a part in my mind. It’s just like, Pull the Rolls up. Did you get your check? Did you get your check? Did you get your check? I'm like, Shut the fuck up. If you're not asking questions about how do I live a life where I don't need this anymore, you know what I mean? [0:48:05.4]

Mark: Yeah, I know, I belong to a group, but we're talking about this whole piece, the monies and all this stuff. I didn't go for any of it, and I have a saying, just because you can doesn't mean you should, you know what I mean?
And, yes, maybe you could get some free money, maybe a 100,000, 10,000. I don't know what the number of dollars are because I didn't look into it, because I was like, If there is a small business that needs it, why should I be taking the money from it? Because I don't need it. And, yes, I could, but that doesn't mean I should. That's kind of my [opinion], and, again, there's no right or wrong. I'm not judging it. I'm just saying that's my opinion on it. So, it's more. I actually feel if you take this handout, it's almost like blood money.

Sean: You watched. We saved your shit. You owe us now.

Mark: And if $1,200 saves you, guys, I mean, $1,200 is nothing. And, Sean, you know you could go on Craigslist to the free section and get all this free stuff, and sell it for $20 and make more than $1,200 and not have to be in control of it. You won’t work and earn it, and feel good about it. Do you feel good about taking the money? Sean, that’s what's fazing me. [0:49:11.2]

Sean: This is a big conversation, a big thing going on stemming all the way back to how we believe about money what we believe about money or make our own programming and stuff like that. But something that I'm very, very, very [much] want to add value to people's lives on is this understanding that you have got to get your house in order.

And I think what's really interesting now is those of you that are watching this that are not part of a mastermind, not part of a group, not part of a coaching deal, pick a day in the year you hear me talk about it, hear Mark talk about it. It’s like, Oh, why would I spend money on these things? Why would I? I don't want to spend. I just have Google, right? I can Google it. I can whatever, whatever.

Really stopping and thinking for a second, in order to get my house in order, I'm going to have to do some things differently. The way that I'm doing things right now is not working if I'm really tripping over $1,200, right? And $1,200 to a lot of people, at one point in time in my life $1,200 was a lot of fucking money, right? [0:50:06.8]

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: You're not throwing any shade to that. I'm not throwing shade to that. But I think what's really fascinating is through this experience, it's exposed where people are emotionally, psychologically, mentally, right? And it shows you're not reading books. You're not doing your daily study. You're not doing… You don't have your morning rituals. You're not getting your house in order.

And I think I don't care whether you're a millionaire. I don't care if you're making $10 a year kind of deal. Right now, that exposure, even people that are making a lot of money, that they might not have gotten their dick stuck in the dirt, but I'm home more. I’ve got to be around my family more and this is out of order. This is out of order. This isn't working right.
Being able to be exposed to shit is actually really good. It's painful for a minute. When the tide goes out and you realize you've got a small weed. It's like, Well, you figured that out, you know what I mean? But now you get to build something from it. Now you get to do something with it. That exposure is not a bad thing. It's actually a really, really, really beautiful thing because it’s the truth. The amount of people living with this total bullshit. [0:51:07.0]

So, if you're one of these people that's going, Yeah, my finances are not in order. My business, all business owners did not have the same rainy day fund that you do as an individual, as a father, right? Here's where the money in the bank. That's all I keep there. That's it. I don't want a whole shit ton of cash.

If you're not thinking that way, too, with as your business, if something happened to my business, if there was this, there was that, if there was a fire and I had to wait two or three or four months for an insurance check to come in and I couldn't afford that, you know what I mean? All of these things go through your head that should go through your head, and I think that's something that's really, really, really powerful that people need to look at. Through this experience, not just $1,200 with business owners, is my business prepared for some shit? Do I have a rainy day fund? Am I in a place where I can keep living my life if the bus stopped for a couple of minutes, you know what I mean?

Mark: Yeah, and with what's going on, like Sean said, you guys are realizing your vulnerabilities, your weak points. We're not judging it. You're just bringing awareness to it and then saying, Hey, I don't like this feeling. How can I not have this feeling again? I need to level up my financial prosperity. I need to understand the profit first mechanism. I need to have the rainy day fund or whatever. I need to prepare, expect the best, prepare for the worst. That's what you folks should be doing. [0:52:23.2]

Sean: Right.

Mark: But I do know and remember guys in business, they're like, Oh man, if this still doesn't happen, I'm done. It's like if one deal is going to make or break you, you don't have a business, first and foremost.

Sean: No. If one paycheck doesn't come and you're broke, you're broke way before that, friend.

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: You're broke before that. Trust me, living paycheck to paycheck, I've done it. I get it. It's a fucking terrible existence. It's a terrible, terrible, terrible existence. I'm not judging you. I'm telling you that because I did it and I fucking hated it, right? There's so much anxiety, so much stress. If you're living that way, Monday through Friday, every other day of the week, outside of the pandemic bullshit, you know what I mean? Now is the time to really buckle down and understand where your weak points are, what you don't know. If you don't know about money, fucking ask - [0:53:11.4]

Mark: Yeah, exactly.

Sean: - What do people do? I didn't know how to plug in this thing on my website and I asked and, all of a sudden, I solved the problem, right? There's no nobility, and I say this in the book, there's no nobility in being broke.

Mark: None.

Sean: No nobility in being broke. There's nothing noble running around saying, I'm broke. Everybody, feel sorry for me. Right? If you're in that spot, open up your fucking mouth, man. Let's keep the tide out and figure out what you're really playing ball with, and then you can build something new.

Mark: And not only that, people like Sean want to help and I want, we genuinely want to talk about it and help you. It's not that we're trying to embarrass you. Actually, you're already embarrassed, so I don't need to negotiate anymore. You're already embarrassed. That's why it's happening.

Now it’s like, okay, how are we taking this subversion? Are you going to do something about it or are you just going to keep staying in that cycle? I personally move. I don't like feeling like that because I’ve felt like that before, so it’s like, How do I get out of it? Who do you need to become? [0:54:03.4]

If you knew the answer, by the way, you’d be out of it already. You don't know the answer. It's okay to say, Hey, I don't know the answer. Who do I need to become to get the answer? I need to be better at asking questions from people. I need to get around people that are actually where I want to be financially. That doesn't mean they're all the way around where you want to be, but maybe financially they are, so you can learn from these people. This is the muscle you need to develop if you want to grow.

Sean, I have had a call. Last week, I've had calls. Actually, during the pandemic, I actually tightened down even myself and I'm kind of tightening stuff already, but it just brings awareness. Hey, guys, okay, are we weak anywhere? If we are, let's talk about it. Not let's avoid it. Let's talk about it.

And my conversations go like, I have no clue what's going on. Can you please educate me? And there's three people on the phone and I'm getting all perspectives, and I'm like, Okay, Bryce, is that right? Okay, Mike, are you cool with that? Does that make sense? Are we on the same page? What questions should I ask that I'm not asking? I don't know. If I knew, I'd ask. So, I think we have to get better with this and I think this is a great time where you're realizing no one has a clue. Very few people I think. [0:55:09.8]

Sean: What you just wrote, I don't know where I'm pointing. I know I’m pointing at my screen here, but what you just wrote down, people need to write that shit down right now. Write down “Who do I need to become?” Write that down right now and here’s why. That mentality—I’ve got to put my phone on silent—that question, dude will change your life. It'll change your life.
My buddy and I were in Laguna Beach. We were walking on the beach, $26 million house for sale, and we had this exact conversation. I know this is why. We talked about this. Success leaves clues, right? mark and I are saying the same thing, asking the same question, talking about this shit. Write this shit down, friends.

We're looking at this house and, mathematically, you know how easy it is to buy a $26 million house. It's just math. I can give my daughter a calculator and say, Okay, what's 20% down. Okay, it's this? And what's the 6% mortgage train over 30 years? What's the simple interest payment? Da-da-da. [0:56:02.3]

Mathematically, it's super fucking simple to buy a $100,000 watch, to buy a $500,000 car, to buy a $26-million house. If you stop and really think about it, it's just math. You can get somebody that's totally broke and a 10 year old to figure that out, how to actually buy it. The question is, and we were talking about it and what came up is, who do I have to become to buy a $26-million house?

When you start focusing on that, instead of saying, I need $26 million, you start saying, I need to become the person that lives in a $26 million house. Who do I have to become to be able to do whatever I want whenever I want? Who do I have to become to be able to literally work two hours a day and make seven figures? Who do I have to become? Because here's the deal, it's been done. It's like the old school story of the four-minute mile. Heard of the four-minute mile and there’s some one motherfucker who does, and then everybody does, right?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: There are people building businesses that allow them, provide them, produce a lot of income, and they can work two hours a day. It is possible, friend. Like, Oh, it can't be done. People are doing it. You're doing it. I'm doing it. [0:57:08.7]

The real question that people need to focus on, which, dude, that question that you just wrote down here on the screen, probably the most important thing that people can do is become the type of person. We were talking about what does the guy who drives into a $26-million-house drive? What does he do every day? What books does he read? What kind of fruit does he eat? When does he work out? Where does he work out? What type of human being is he?
When you start thinking that way and you could become that person, I don't say this in jest and I pray to God it never happens, but if I lost everything, gone, done, $0 in the bank, within a year I'd have it all back.

Mark: And some.

Sean: Because I've become the person that has built this, right? It didn't happen by luck. It happened by hard work by becoming that type of person, you know what I'm saying? If you really stop and think about that question, one of the most powerful questions to a human being is, who do I have to become to have a six pack? [0:58:05.2]

Mark: Yep, yep.

Sean: That was a real fucking question. What do I have to do emotionally, psychologically, mentally, to overcome all the boring stories that I told myself about having fat parents, about having genetics? I don't have good genetics.
I told them all the stories for 40 fucking years. I always told the stories, six packs and for other dudes, skinny dudes like athletes or whatever. I'm just going to have that, but I'm strong and I can run. I’ve had five MMA fights. I've done two Ironmans. Who do I have to become?

And dude, I did it. I did it after spine surgery with a fucked up body, the whole thing, and all of a sudden, it's like, oh shit, it's not about lifting the weights. It's not about the $26-million house. It's about becoming the type of person that would live in that house, because that type, you become that, and then you can buy a $26-million house. You could become the person who can build the body, and then, all of a sudden, you build the body, right?

And so, any aspect of your life, whether it's relationships, who do I have to become to have a really, really, really good relationship? Who do I have to become to have connection and trust? Who do I have to become to be present in my kids' lives, to be friends with my kids? You start thinking that way, dude, game changes. Game fucking changes. [0:59:16.2]

Mark: And not only that, getting around people that you can mirror that are actually doing it. Sean, when we were on the yacht, right, I think I am a workout guy and I'm working out, and we finally could get off the yacht and go work out at a gym, and then, we're in the gym. If you think that you work out hard, go with someone that works out hard. You go to a different workout, right?

And the same thing with the way their cadence of work is like, like, How am I able to get more done in three hours than most people get done in 30 days? My cadence of work, who I'm talking about, dude, both are just different, so it's like, dude, I'm working my butt off. Okay, what? I don't know what that means. Hey, man, I'm hitting the gym hard. What does that mean? You go in there, you're on your cell phone for 60 minutes of the 65 minutes of the hard work? What does it mean? But you’ve got to get around people that will push you, right, Sean? You know where you're from. [1:00:02.2]

Sean: Totally. I mean, if you're the best golfer in your foursome, you're in the wrong foursome, right? If you're the richest dude in the room, you're in the wrong freaking room. That's why, again, I love hanging out with people that are doing more than me. I mean, my, my trainer, now, he he's a bodybuilder, fucking onstage crazy shit. His wife is number three in the world. She did third in Miss Olympia, right?

Mark: Wow.

Sean: The dude is light years above me in the fitness game. That's why I want to work with him, right?

Mark: Me too.

Sean: The truth is the people that I work with, they're answering questions that I don't have the answers to, and that's the reason that I work with them. That's the reason that I hire them. That's the reason that I pay them. You know what I'm saying? There's so many people like, Who do I have to become to be a good student, right?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: A lot of people have this misconception about Lions Not Sheep and it's just roar and go out there. At one point in time, you're a cub. You're a baby. You're a little pup. You're a little kitten, right? Little lion kitten, and you got to follow somebody. You’ve got to learn how to hunt. You’ve got to do all these things. [1:01:02.5]

And the very best leaders have mastered the art of following. Mastered the art of following. They understand that's what it takes to level up. If you go to a new jungle, a new spot, you're going to learn from somebody that knows that it knows the terrain that knows the ground that knows how to hunt here, right?

The same thing in business. You want to live in a $26-million house, don't go talk to your $50,000 uncle. Go talk to a dude who lives in a $26 million-house. It's how the game was played, right? Who do I have to become to have this? Who do I have to become to live like this? Who do I have to become to look like this? Those questions, bro, game over.

Mark: It's game over and with action behind it.

Sean: Exactly.

Mark: But the thing is, the truth is action follows that because that's a conversation. That's another. You're asking a higher-level conversation, so you are going to do the action because you know that's the next question you would ask yourself. Okay, now that I know who it is, now what action do I need to take to get that result? You’ve got to hire them. [1:02:00.8]
The real trick, too, Sean, like everything, you're buying time.

Sean: Oh God.

Mark: We're buying time. Sean's trainer, my trainer, Chris, he's been a professional trainer his whole life, bodybuilder and all that. What he knows in his brain, I could pay him $100 an hour or whatever it is, and literally I could learn what I need to learn within one hour.

Sean: Yeah.

Mark: For 100 bucks.

Sean: And every…with coaching. You and I probably combined have done more real estate deals than everybody on here times 10, and I’m not saying it to be a dick. I say it because you and I have been wildly fucking successful in the real estate game, okay.

People ask me all the time, I want to get into real estate. How do I do it? My answer is the exact same across the board, 100 out of 100 times, you will never see me answer a different way. Hire a coach. Oh yeah, but there's books that I’ve read, Robert Kiyosaki and I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, blah-blah-blah. I’m like, Fuck off, hire a coach. Here’s why, time. The amount of money that I lost, the deals that I learned from whether it was a rehab, whatever it was, you investing in knowledge literally shortens the gap between where you are to success. [1:03:06.8]

I could go Google, and go to the gym and work out on my own, curls for the girls and do all these other things, and I might get where I'm go or where we want to be, right? Or I go to a coach and say, Here's where I want to go. Can you build me the map to get there? Yes or no? And if they say, yes, here's my money, let's go, and I’m going to get there because this is a person that's already done it. This is something even business owners don't understand.
A lot of business owners are really, really, really smart motherfuckers though there's a line item in their expenses for coaching.

Mark: Absolutely.

Sean: It’s a luxury and, well, maybe when I get there. It’s just so important to me. My body is so important to me, I don't give a fuck what it costs. Right now I'm in a gym. I'm literally getting off this and I'm going to a gym, but all the gyms are shut down, right, because of this scamdemic. I had to say the something, right? Whatever. [1:04:03.2]

But how are you supposed to try when you're shut [down]? I needed the gym. It is so ruthlessly ingrained in my daily action. When they shut my gym down, I'm like, Fuck the park. Yeah, I’ve got equipment. I want a gym. It's mental for me. It's what I gotta do. And I created that reality. I just spent a bunch of money to do it. I did it, right?

Mark: Nice.

Sean: And I don't say it to brag and boast. It's like when you get to that space where you realize, I want to get here. I want to continue my journey. I want to continue to level up. I need people. I need a coach because they're going to shorten that gap and they're going to help me get where I need to be, with a lot less expenditures lost, without losing as much money, banging my head against the wall, risking my marriage, you know what I mean?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: There's so few things in life that I'm as adamant about and coaching is one. It's not just because I'm a coach. It’s not because it's part of my business. You make way more money in the real estate game than you do coaching. Correct?

Mark: Dude, coaching dollar for dollar and time is my least productive thing I do in profitability, but it's my most rewarding thing I get to do. [1:05:04.5]

Sean: Got it.

Mark: So, it’s like I have to do it because I enjoy it and it fulfills a void for me, and I can help people. I can really and I've become great friends with these guys. I’ve made really, really amazing friends.

Sean: You watch people go from Ford Pinto, 20 miles an hour in the real estate game, to what they're flying, and it's not because you’ve got some mystical, magical thing. It's like this is how I've done it. This is where I went wrong. This is what works. Copy what works. And, all of a sudden, they do it and it's fast track, you know what I'm saying?

Mark: Yeah. Then you always have those students. It's like, Don't do that, and then they have to do it to prove to themselves that I was right. We all have students like that, clients. But that's what it's about. So, Sean, I know we're going to here for an hour. Do you have a minute for a couple of questions and you’ve got to go?

Sean: I’m cool with it. I don't have to be in the gym for an hour. There are very few. I will tell you this, man. There are very few people. My morning ritual is paramount to me. One of them is to study and to smoke a cigar, enjoy it. I wish I could turn my computer on. Beautiful sunrise happening here in Utah, the whole thing. We're talking, bro. I'm on the DM show, right? I’ll get up at 6:30 for anybody. So, let's talk, homie. [1:06:12.9]

Mark: All right, man. Do you guys have any questions? Sean, we have a couple of people. We have a decent amount of people here, but if you guys have any questions and you want to hop on the show here and ask Sean directly and I was, now's your chance. But, Sean, I love the scamdemic, man. That's cool. I've never heard that yet, but…

Sean: I think we brought it up a couple of times and we haven't really gotten into it. I don't know anything and you don't know anything. I’ve got smart people and you’ve got smart people. I’ve got people that I know that are in the government. I’ve got buddies that are Special Forces, military, blah, blah, blah. I have no specific inside knowledge.

The one thing I will say, though, and this is really the first for me, so I love going deep. I asking the why, going behind the scenes, right? I don't typically take things at face value. I'm not the person that reads the headline and go, Oh my God, the world's ending. I'd better lock my doors. I'm like, What? What’s happening? You know what I'm saying? But this is the first time where I don't know who wins with this. I don't know what's behind it. [1:07:08.0]

We can build gates, blah, blah, blah, and whatever, whatever, but help, though, it’s like seeing it, having the tide go out, watching how many people are exposed. I'm a fan, I guess, is the best way to say it. I don't know what's behind it. I don't care about the theories and the hypothetical whatever, whatever. I'm a fan because this woke a lot of people up. I'm all about the change. I'm all about revolution. I'm all about making things bigger, better, faster, stronger. I don't think anybody would disagree that our system, our culture of way of doing things is not necessarily happening right. So, this has been a really cool experience, these last five, six, seven weeks. It's a really cool experience.

Mark: What I think is the coolest about it is, dude, we're in history. This is in the history books forever. It’s a lot of people to connect [with] at different levels. I mean, I think it's created a lot of vulnerability as well, but it's a changing of the guards. I mean, you’ve got to. You're reorganizing and like, Wow, this is not what I thought life would look anymore, so a lot of cool stuff is happening, man. I think a lot more good than bad can come from it, I hope. [1:08:12.1]

Sean: And why am I the only one smoking a cigar? I thought this was a cigar show.

Mark: I can't light up in the house. I was going to be in the garage, but it's still--

Sean: Oh, man.

Mark: Yeah, I’ve got the landscapers here. It's loud. I was like if I light up in the house, I'll be outside of the house for the rest of the day.

Sean: Fuck that. How many of y'all think that that was a terrible fucking excuse? I mean, we're on the cigar show. I’m tired of talking. I'm the only motherfucker smoking a cigar.

Mark: I’ve got one in my hand. I just can't light it. Have you ever thought about selling real estate in New York, blah, blah, blah, blah? And the real estate agents make a million a house. Wait, agents make millions per house. That's not true, but no agents are making millions of dollars per house to sell them.

Sean: Yeah.

Mark: Who coaches you to help you--

Sean: Can I speak to that really quick?

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: And here's something really, really interesting to think about, right? The question is, if you're selling real estate on Long Island in the East, construction, not real estate agents right? Most people would go, Really? What? How do I get in? I don't do that. I don't do that. [1:09:08.2]

My mind chases squirrels and whatever, whatever, but something to be really, really, really knowledgeable of. There's a lot of people making a lot of money in a lot of different things, right? And I think what a lot of people do is, and you see this with some people, right, they're constantly chasing the new thing. The coin, cryptocurrency, what's that? Next thing you know, Facebook. Everybody's a cryptocurrency expert, right, and they chase this thing over here. They really don't know shit about it, so they detour from what point they're at, what their foundation is and I think you'd agree with this, but all the time about creating other sources of income.

And you don’t have to light up in the house. I don't want Deena yelling at me, You already made Mark smoke in the house.
But something that's really important to contemplate on this question is ensuring that you've got a foundation, right? Ensuring that you've got a business that’s spitting out. My suggestion for all my clients is that you have the ability to have a bit of business that spits out 2X whatever your monthly nut is. Right? If you're a small business that's 10k a month, I want to make $20,000 a month, right? [1:10:11.0]

Then you can start having the liberty to buy stock and do this and do that, whatever, whatever, but there's a mentality around that that I think is really dangerous for a lot of people. It’s, Oh shit, I’d better go over here because this is where everybody's making money, and then, all of a sudden, it shifts and then they go over here, and you're spending your entire life trying to find out the big deal instead of creating a big deal.

I mean, most real estate moguls didn't start in real estate. They started in a different business. They did this and then they started investing in real estate. You know what I'm saying? So, just by way of thought on that question, I think it's super important for people to understand that.

Mark: And not only that, don't discount the fact that let's say if the guy was making a million dollars a deal, which is highly unlikely, probably will not—I mean, they're getting 3 to 5% and you're not getting a full boat 6%, 7% on a $50 million house—but let's just say if he was, you're taking the fact away that that's what he loves to do. That's his unique ability and he has spent the last 25 years doing it, building up the relationships, building up the rapport. You're not going to get someone off the street that's going to hand you $40 million for a house if you're a dipshit that has never done anything. [1:11:15.8]
I think too many people are over-exaggerating. You can't be there overnight, and not only that, I truly, and I'm not saying this because I don't care what anybody's doing. I care what I'm doing.

Sean: Sure. That's why you're successful. That's why I'm successful and I don't say it to be a dick. It's because I'm focused on my lane. I’m focused on my lane. I get hit up. Dolf de Roos wrote one of the Rich Dad, Poor Dad books way back in the day when they owned a mortgage company. I went to him and I wanted to do all these mortgages, right? Anyway, I was sitting with him in his office in Phoenix one day and he said something to me that I'll never forget. He said, “Sean, the deal of a lifetime comes across my desk once a week.” Can I see the deal of a lifetime once a week?

When I was doing real estate heavy, when we were back in the Midwest and we were buying in Detroit and Ohio and the whole deal, I would get all kinds of deals. Right? I knew what my bread and butter was. I knew what my box was. I knew that ideal deal. I knew what the acquisition costs was, what the rehab costs was. I knew the zip code I needed. I knew all that shit. [1:12:13.2]

But I would get all sorts of deals thrown my way and I passed on all of them that didn't fit in my box. Well, Sean, that's dumb. This is a great deal. It might be a great deal, friend. It probably is. In fact, it looks like it's a great deal. But when you become that ruthless to your own deal, your own model, your own market, your own marketing, your own business, that's how you build wealth. That's how you build a real, real, real solid foundation. It doesn't mean that you can't do those deals eventually, but getting that foundation really fucking set is without question the most important thing that you'll do.

Mark: No, I agree, man. We did that in our company and it changed the game a long time ago, because I used to be a whore, man. I would do any deal and made money, a lot of chasing, and the problem is I was worn out, beat up and people knew they could call me and nickel and dime because I would take the deal no matter what. Hit Evans up. He'll buy it no matter what. [1:13:00.6]

But now it’s funny, too, Sean. People will send me a deal of the lifetime and I'll be like, Nah, but I’m just not interested. You're not a real investor. Then I'm like, All right, cool, whatever, next.

Sean: By the way, I’m in the pool, smoking a cigar right now. Fuck off.

Mark: Exactly. Hey, Kathy is asking what are the top three books, Sean, you'd recommend to improve mindset and become who you want to be?

Sean: That’s the book.

Mark: How to Make Sh*t Happen, right? That’s the one of them.

Sean: Yeah, my book, obviously, I wrote. I mean, real talk, I'm not saying that there’s a reason I wrote on the cover, “Make more money, get in better shape, create epic relationships and control your life!” It's what I wrote on here because it's literally what I used to build what I've got right now. But I think, I mean, As a Man Thinketh is my number one book.

Mark: Great book.

Sean: If you haven't read that, just start there. I can give you a thousand books, right? People ask me all the time, What books should I read? All of them. Read all of them. I read books on…I've got literally stacks and stacks and stacks of books all over my house. [1:14:00.9]

I'm reading books firstly online. Confessions of a Media Manipulator. I mean, I saw it on Amazon. It looked good. I'm reading Ralph Waldo Emerson. I’ve got books fucking everywhere, right? Read all of the books, number one.

Number two, there isn't a book out there that's going to make you who you want to be, right? All of the book is this… In As a Man Thinketh talks about your mind being a garden and I'm a firm believer in this. I just want to plant good seeds. My goal in reading every single day is not to solve world hunger or whatever, whatever, bank a billion dollars. It’s to just plant good seeds.

So, if you're reading a book, whether it's about religion, marketing, sales, sex, politics, whatever, you're planting good seeds, you know what I'm saying? It’s not action. Again, it's not a book that's going to say, Go do this, and you go do it. It's going to be answering the question that Mark asked earlier, which is what do you want? And you ask me that question, What do you want? and all of a sudden, you’ve got really good seeds in here that are producing good fruit. Now, all of a sudden, you can go do what it is that you want, you know what I mean? [1:15:03.6]

I think a lot of people look to books as this, It's going to give me everything. Sean, is your book going to help me? Every book would fucking help you. Every book would help you, right? People ask me this all the time. Sean, could the Lions Den help me? If bettering your life helps you, then yes, right? Will this book help you? Absolutely. Can this book help? Absolutely, right? That mentality of constantly putting good seeds is what's going to help you become motivated and help you become who you want to be. It's not one book per se. Does that make sense?

Mark: No, man, a hundred percent. I have literally books coming here almost daily. It’s all kinds of stuff from buying businesses to becoming a better dad, a better husband, everything. It's like we've got to learn from a book all the time. Books changed my life, man. I never read a book until I graduated high school. They're all good ones.
Do you think it's best to focus your learning energy on one type of income at a time to be successful, small business, real estate stock, etc.? [1:16:07.4]

Sean: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. You have to have a foundation. You show me somebody who's really successful. You show me a millionaire. You show me a billionaire. I'll show you somebody with the core business. This is where they make their money. This is their core business. Yeah, they might own this and this and this and this and this and this. Every successful person, every successful millionaire, investor, whoever you want to talk to has a core business. And when you master that core business, when you become really fluent in it and really successful in it, then you can start to branch out.
So, the answer is absolutely. Focus on one and make very, very, very, very wealthy, and then you can do whatever the fuck you want.

Mark: Yeah. I mean, Sean, what I think people forget, when they see you and me, we've been doing business for 20, probably longer than some people have been alive watching this.

Sean: Right.

Mark: I think don't take for granted time, you guys. Listen, we're all trying to get there quicker. By the way, I'm here and I kind of miss back in the day the hard grind of learning it. I miss those days because I love the journey. [1:17:09.3]

Sean: Right.

Mark: You’ve got to fall in love with the journey, for sure. But, I think if you see what Zillow is today, Zillow wasn't that 10 years ago. It was a website for an opt-in page. That's it. But there's an evolution process that happens when you start discovering, Hey, this is my path. Okay, I'm not good here, but I'm really good here. Okay, I'm good here.

This is awareness that we're talking about. This is understanding, What do I want? And being aware, being grateful and just, Hey, at least today, I got to keep my lights on today. What's next? And then, you grow from this—hopefully, you grow from this as the goal—and then you wake up 10 years from now and you're like, Oh my God, I built what?

Dude, Sean, what I make in a week is what I dreamt about making in my lifetime back in the day. If I was trying to make that in a year, let alone a week back then, I would have never got started because it'd been so massively over the top. [1:18:00.6]
I think that's why a lot of people fail. They don't even know they're closer to… They're running the race without a timer, without a distance. You're running your ass off and you don't even know where you're running to.

Sean: A hundred percent, man. I shared this story over and over and over again last year. December, it's the same thing every year, right? Hearing all those people like, Oh dude, 2018–2019 is going to be my year. And you're like, You said that last year and the year before. What's going to change? Right? It's always the same.

The dude who puts a picture of a Lamborghini up on his vision board and he's like, Dude, I'm going to buy that. I was like, Cool, man, how are you going to do it? I'm going to hustle. I'm going to grind. And they spent 10 seconds working on their Facebook page and it was like every other post was hustle, grind, hustle, grind, hustle, grind.

It looks like you already are, so what are you going to do differently? How are you going to buy his car, bro? And his response to me is, Why do you have to be a dick? And here's the reason he said that. It's because he didn't have a plan. He didn't know how he was going to do it. He was just going to hustle and grind until magically he had 300k and he was going to write a check for this thing.

The difference between that guy and the guy that actually has the Lamborghini is the guy with the Lamborghini says, All right, I'm going to buy it in six months. That means I need to make X amount over six months, this much per quarter or this much per month, this much per week, all the way down to this much per day. Right? [1:19:09.4]

And the dude who gets the Lambo is focused on getting this per day. Surprise, surprise, in six months, you all of a sudden have it when you're focused on making $1,000 a day or whatever the math is. Now, all of a sudden, you’ve got the cash to buy the Lambo. The other dude is still banging his head against the wall, trying to fucking buy the car.

Mark: He’s hustling and grinding. He’s hustling and grinding memes or whatever they're called.

Sean: Right.

Mark: Yeah. Hey, this pandemic put a lot of good deals in the housing market due to foreclosure.

Sean: I have no fucking clue.

Mark: No clue either.

Sean: I have no idea. I don't know. I know that I've made a lot of money in an up market and I've made a lot of money in your down market, and I think if you become an expert in some sort of aspect of real estate, it doesn't fucking matter.

Mark: I agree.

Sean: I’ve spoken to people that are like, Oh, I'm going to go buy all this Delta stock. I'm going to go buy all the shit and all the… Dude, these are the same people that last year were talking about cryptocurrency. I don't know where the market is going to go. No one really does. Will the market go down? Absolutely, because it always fucking does. There's always an ebb and there's always a flow. But most of the time people are, Oh shit, the market is down, but I wish I had [money]. How many times have you seen this in the last four or five or six weeks? Man, if I had money right now, I'd be buying stocks. [1:20:12.4]

Mark: Yeah.

Sean: Here's the thing. Everybody says that. The question is what are you doing all the rest of the year? Are you stocking up? Are you cashing in? Are you making dough so that the opportunity does come? Again, to answer this question, get yourself in a position right fucking now, so that when the market does, the bubble does burst, market does go down, you’ve got dough, you’ve got money, instead of focusing on where's the marketing. Do you know how many people that have a fuck ton of money and they're thinking about that right now?

Mark: No, none.

Sean: Not that many. Want to know what they're talking about? My cash. What am I doing today? Where am I at right this second?

Mark: A hundred percent.

Sean: They’re already there because they got the dough. Now they can act. So, become a person that has the cash. When the market goes up, you can make a move. When the market goes down, you can make a move.

Mark: Absolutely. Yeah, Jason, don't be chasing the opportunities. The opportunities are there already. It's like, first of all, people are in foreclosure now. Serve them. [1:21:03.8]

Build a business or build a business around you, not around the situation, and I think that's where a lot of people get messed up, guys. I don't chase money. I've never been in the short sell game, the foreclosure game. I build a real business and there's always opportunity.

Sean: Right. Tomorrow, if somebody brought you a foreclosure today or in six months, you're going to be positioned to be able to move on it because you have that foundation, right? I never thought this way. When an opportunity came and the market crashed, I dough. I moved. I made moves, right? The market is here, the market is there. It's like I have no idea what exactly is going to happen in the next six months. I'm just trying to make it through, trying to make the lunch, you know what I'm saying? I'm trying to keep us alive till lunch. So, listen, yes, all right, let's go to dinner now. Let's try and make it a dinner, you know what I mean?

Mark: That's awesome, man. Sean, real quick, what's been the biggest takeaway for you for the six-pack journey? Because I'm in the process as well.

Sean: I’ve talked to people about 75 HARD. It's without question, the hardest thing I've ever done, and I don't say that because Andy is my homie. I've got no skin in the game. I’ve got no ownership of it. It's not my deal. I don't get a royalty, a fee. I get nothing, right? [1:22:09.8]

I went through a really, really, really nasty breakup, ending of a relationship that I loved dearly and wanted, and I went through a spine surgery, went through a really, really, really shitty part of my game, a little bit over a year ago, and I needed something that really stretched me, that really, really, really pushed me. 75 HARD did it. What people don't realize is how you get fads, right? These fad diets and people lose 100 pounds and they gain it back, and they lose 100 pounds of the gain of back. It’s because they're not committed to the emotional change, the neurological change. It's just a fad. You starve yourself and lose weight, and you go right back.

I wanted to change my brain. I wanted to fucking change the way I thought. I wanted to change my stories. Both of my parents were overweight. There’s nobody thin in my family. I got fat genes, right? I love sugar. I smell sugar like, Somebody bring me wherever that sugar is, right? I’m a fat kid at heart. [1:23:03.5]

So, trust me, yesterday, when we were driving home, we stopped at the gas station to get things done. Shit, let's grab some of those fucking Cinnabons and I ate the shit out of them, right? But understanding that the mental game of fitness, it’s just like the mental game of a relationship. It’s just like the mental game of money.

It's not easy to make a ton of money. It's not. It's not easy to be an entrepreneur. You know how much easier it is to sit in a fucking desk and just get a check every two weeks? That's easy. Going out and building something, like taking on your body, the amount of discipline that it takes to not eat shit when…you know what I'm saying? I had a Cinnabon, but the truth is I’d already got the six pack. I've built the body. I’ve tested myself. I know what I can and what I can't do, and I've gone into that space where I went over those, over those hurdles, right?

It sounds really funny, but it's like the same thing growing a beard, right? You start growing a beard, you get to that itchy phase and most dudes will shave it off. You get past that really fucking uncomfortable stage, and then you can grow a big beard. [1:24:03.0]

Coming to that place where you've never gone this far in building a body, and then, all of a sudden, you get to be on the side and you're like, Shit, I literally changed my entire life. I changed my mindset. I changed my being. It's the same thing in business. It's the same thing across the board, right?

Mark: Yeah, what I love about it, seeing it, because, again, you're posting pictures and, guys, if it doesn't inspire you, it's because you're mad at yourself. It has nothing to do with Sean. But when you see that, like, Dude, why can't I do that? If he can, why can’t I? Dude, what do I need to do? Who do I need to hire? What do I need to eat? What do his days look like?

Sean: Who do I have to become?

Mark: Yeah, who do I have to become? And if you don't ask what you want--

Sean: If Mark Evans can do it, I can do it.

Mark: Absolutely.

Sean: If Mark Evans can become a millionaire, I can become a millionaire. When you start thinking that way, it’s not impossible. Fat people have gotten six packs. It’s possible. I don't have an excuse. My back hurts. I got into a rotator. I’ve got to fucking trash my body, right? I’ve broken damn near every bone. I’ve blown out both of my knees. I've had surgery. I’ve had spine surgery. What's my excuse? I don't really have one. You go into that mental depth. That's how you change the game. [1:25:14.2]

Mark: It's taking responsibility for everything, good and bad. Right? I think we're good at taking responsibility, say, I did that. Yay, I got the trophy. I'm the one. And then, when it's bad, you're overweight. It's like, Yeah, I just have fat parents. I love sugar. It's not my fault. It just is what it is. We've all been there. Cool, man.
Hey, do you think the rules of consumer behavior will change after the situation?

Sean: Yeah, but eventually I think this is a bigger deal than anything else we've experienced. I think this is going to change the game in a lot of ways, but I had this thought yesterday. It's literally just going to unwind. I mean, literally, I could show you right now, there's just traffic going up and down my street. It's normal rush hour, morning traffic. People are already at the game. We’re ready to be normal again, right? Most people are going to go back to their same lazy ways, same predictive patterns or seeing whatever, whatever, you know what I'm saying? [1:26:03.4]

You're supposed to change the game in a lot of ways, though. I don’t think it'll be as notable as we'd like to think, but I definitely think subconsciously this changes things in a major, major, major way.

Mark: Yeah, so only time will tell, right? I think a lot of times people want to talk about theory and thoughts, and what could happen or not. The truth is no one really knows. I mean, I could tell you on our side, we want everyone to be better. We want everyone to prepare stronger. It's not like we're praying that it goes back to the same. There's obviously an issue and, hopefully, their internal issues, they’d fix it and get better and become better out of it.

Sean: Totally agree.

Mark: Sean, we have a lot more stuff, man. I can talk to you all day as you know, buddy, but I appreciate you being here. Sean, where can people follow you and get on your email list and also a checkout Lions Not Sheep?

Sean: Go to just SeanWhalen.com, just my name, and you can find me, find me there. Everything's on my website, LionsNotSheep.com. If you have a phone and you're somewhere on the internet, I’m not hard to find. [1:27:00.0]

Mark: Exactly, yeah. Sean, you have over a billion views now, right, on YouTube?

Sean: That video I just shared the other day, it's got 400,000 views or something, just that one the other day, so, yeah, things are good, man. They're really moving on.

Mark: Awesome, man. I appreciate your time, buddy. Thank you for you smoking a cigar while I hold one.

Sean: You can go out probably now and light it up.

Mark: Appreciate your help, buddy. Thank you for being here.

Sean: Thanks, guys, appreciate you. Thanks, Mark.

Mark: Thank you, guys.

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