If you can't lead yourself, you can't lead others.
Welcome to another episode of Builder Nuggets, the show where builders and remodelers discover how to build thriving businesses while working less. I'm Duane Johns and together with Dave Young, we share the elements of success that have helped hundreds of contractors like you build better lives.
(00:22): Today's guest is the owner of growth coach of Charlotte with over 30 years of business ownership experience in various corporate positions, he is well-respected as a leader in professional development, among many business owners and entrepreneurs.
(00:36): I've had the privilege of getting to know James Bergano personally and professionally over the last few years. And we were fortunate enough to have him speak at an event we hosted in 2019, where he talked about the power of delegation and that was very well received. So James, welcome to the show and thanks for taking some time to talk with us.
(00:53): Thanks for the opportunity Dwayne, Dave, it's good to be here. I'm excited to have a conversation with you both. Yeah. We're looking forward to it as well. And you know, we think back to how we all became connected and I believe it was you and Dwayne meeting during a BNI meeting showing, you know, the power of collaboration and the mindset that Hey, you need to get connected. And that ultimately led to your involvement at one of our builder events. And that's an example of building a relationship right there where one small relationship grows into quite a large scale thing here.
(01:28): And when you and I first started talking James, there was a couple of BNI meetings. I think it was, I got introduced to you and we kind of wandered off to the corner and had a pretty in-depth conversation. And that led to you and I having, having some lunch afterwards. And one of the things that, that impressed me talking to you was you could just tell your passion for, for helping business owners. You're obviously love, love what you're doing, but also I remember back to some of those conversations and, and you did mention that, you know, it's not with, without the ups and downs you've had throughout your, your life and your career. And why don't you tell us a little bit about how, you know, some of those ups and downs helped shape your approach or the way you go about coaching?
(02:05): Well, Duane, I, I do remember when we first met, it was good dialogue right away, right? So you really, you pick up on rapport right away with people and then, you know, it's going to be a lasting relationship. So, which was awesome. So here we are. Yeah. I do love what I do. I'm coming up on eight years in my business coaching practice here in Charlotte and eight years ago, eight plus years ago when I decided to take this plunge, it was because I was in a corporate position and my wife identified that I was not happy. Right. So I needed to change. And what she mentioned to me was you never worked harder when you worked for yourself, but you were never happier when you worked for yourself. So what I needed to do was figure out how do I move from my current role in mid-level management corporate back into entrepreneurship, because prior to my corporate stint that I had in Charlotte at the time I owned a business in New Jersey and that's how I got to Charlotte.
(03:13): So I knew what entrepreneurship and business ownership look like. And I also knew what corporate world looked like. And so I moved forward with getting back into the business for myself, opened up my practice here as a business performance coach. And I haven't looked back and you know, but that, you know, from owning a business, it's, it's not, it's not all, you know, positive days and, and rainbows, you know, it's, it's tough. It's tough, man. So, you know, when I was recruited to come to Charlotte, I'll just go back for a second. And when I was recruited to come to Charlotte, away from my business, that was quite candidly successful in New Jersey. I thought to myself, wow, here's an opportunity where I'm going to get a paid vacations and 401k and you know, a paycheck every two weeks. And you know, I figured, well maybe who are, you are going to get the rainbows in the unicorn.
(04:08): Yeah. But you know what it is, you know what it is. Here's the, here's the bottom line to this guys. If you're an entrepreneur and you really need to be in business for yourself, then you need to be in business for yourself. That, there's just no other way to look at it. And it's not, it's not made for everybody, but for those who want to move forward and be a begin owner for their, for themselves and be in business for themselves, there's no other alternative for you. And you know, along the way, you know, bumps in the road all the time, man, there's peaks and valleys. It's a roller coaster, right? It's a roller coaster, but that's what makes it fun.
(04:42): No, you're a small business owner or a person is a small business owner. That doesn't mean you have to do everything yourself. And a lot of what you're coaching is how you grow your team, how you grow relationships, how you use those relationships to expand your influence your success. Because Dwayne and I talk about this a lot on the show, you can't just scale yourself or you'll have a, you won't have a business at all. So the you know, where we wanted to go with the show today is your professional business coach. Do you have helped other entrepreneurs? Just like our, our audience here who are probably all working on these things right now. But when we first invited you and Dwayne said, Hey James, what is it that you're most passionate about that you think you can move the dial the most with it, the topic of relationships came up. So tell us how you develop that. Tell us, you know, what your, what your perspective is on. What does relationships mean? I mean, we, we all know, Hey, we got to have, if we're going to have connections with other people, we have to have relationships. How do you build that into a business? How do you coach around that? And what have you seen?
(05:49): Well, let me, let me start by mentioning this. You need to understand that business is more relational than transactional. And if you could get your arms around that, then that's how you can build a business towards success. That's an asset separate from you, which you mentioned Dave, and that's important. If you're going to build a business, it has to be separate from you. And the only way to do that is to surround yourself with talent and people who could do things better than you. And so you could get out of your own way. If I could distill it down like this, I work with my clients in three major areas of business and they are results or KPIs metrics. How, you know, what's the output let's work toward. What's the output you're looking for. The other element is time management, priority management. And that always gets away from us, right?
(06:40): And the third pillar is relationship management. And when I talk about relationships, you have to think of it as internal and external it's vendors. It's collaborative relationships that are supporting you in somehow some fashion. It's your network of professionals that you surround yourself with your attorneys, your accounting, people that could help you with your business, but it goes beyond just one category of relationships. Does that make sense? Absolutely makes sense. So if we stick, if we look at the relationship side of it, you have to surround yourself with people who quite frankly are better than you at certain aspects of whatever that is you're looking at. And that's how you learn. That's how you grow. Relationship building from a small business perspective needs to start with you being out there, networking, being out there in front of your community, because if you're not visible, then nobody knows you exist and there's no credibility in your market.
(07:39): So one of the first things that I will ask my clients, when we first start engaging is what do you do from a networking perspective? How are you getting your message out to the community? And if their answer is well, like I pay Google Edwards. And I, I do, you know, I have my website up that that's not nearly what I'm talking about. That's not good enough. You have to be in front of the community. So you could shake hands because business is relationships. It's people doing business with other people. And if we can break that barrier and believe that you could sit behind your desk and wait for your marketing efforts to take hold, that's not how you're going to build your business. So that's, that's, that's one component of relationships that we need to pay attention to. What are you doing from a networking perspective? How are you building your credibility and visibility in your market?
(08:31): And there is no shortcut for that, right? I would say, no, there's not because it has to be authentic and it has to be you, right? You need to be out there. So when you say shortcuts, help me understand that a little bit more. Well there's actual effort and hard work and intention and a plan that goes into developing these things. It's not, you know, we've seen in our own coaching that we've had things, we'll call it a, a market partner blitz where you identify
(08:56): 10 architects, where you're going to go out and start to develop these relationships. And you come out with gung ho and you say, well, I've targeted them. I research them are 10 influencers and you go out and you make the first step. Very rarely do we see anybody take the actual time and invest in developing a real relationship. So I think there's a sense that out there with builders that I called on this architect and he doesn't have anything for me. I don't have anything for him right now. There's actual effort to cultivate a relationship. It's not just, Hey, we've spoken. We have a relationship. You got to grow this thing. And most of the seasoned people out there know that, but when you're coaching people, how, how do you coach the, you know, one of the things that we want, we always want to find out is there's the theory around this stuff.
(09:39): Yes. Got to develop a relationship. How do you actually do it? How do you actually connect and develop a meaningful relationship that grows into a business relationship where you're both, you know, are there phases? So you have like an awareness phase, like, you know, an adoption phase. How do you get from a to B, with somebody? I think it starts with a self exploration of really who you want to work with. What are your, what's your core value proposition? Who are you? And what's your business about? And then who is the most likely candidates for you to invite into that circle? Right? So it has to be authentic. So one of the here's, here's a shortcut for you. Don't go into relationship, converse, meeting people and developing relationships with the attitude that it's about you, because it's not, it really needs to be about the other person.
(10:35): So if we can understand the people we're meeting out in our networking and the people we're being introduced to, if we could truly understand what their goals are, what motivates them, what do they need? And we could authentically help them or desire to help them. That's a great way to start a relationship. Wouldn't you agree? So you have to get out of that mindset that the world owes you. Something I think is one thing we have to get over ourselves about, right? It's about being very intentional in being out in front of people with an authentic approach in the end, the desire to understand what they need so that you could possibly help them. If we start connecting those dots, the rapport and the relationship starts to take hold. And you want to do business with people who you like and you and you trust. And what better way to do that. Other than that, you just go in with no expectation to receive anything, but to see what I could give, it's a very reverse mindset of what you believe building relationship and business should be about like the quote from Simon Sinek. You know, people don't buy what you do. They buy, why you do it, want you do it. But that goes
(11:50): As to what you're saying. You've got to understand their why just as much you've. What motivates them. What gets them? Yes. I'm excited. I think it's important. Like let's say architects are a key category of relationships. That's important for a builder to have, which it is, right. It needs to go beyond just, here's a list of the top 10. It's really about exploring who marries up with the type of work you like to do. Who marries up with the person you are? Do you have some things in common? It's just, it's that interpersonal skillset that you need to develop in order to develop a solid relationship. Because if you had a relationship with a half a dozen architects, that's probably a solid portfolio of architects not to speak for your industry. But I would think that that's, but, but it takes time. It's that paradox of business where you have to have patience, but yet have a sense of urgency at the same time, right? So you got to keep pushing forward and persevering, but you have to also be patient because developing relationships is not a, a quick process because it takes time for you to develop relationships when people are approaching you as well. So I think we have to look at it from both sides here.
(13:02): It takes time to develop trust. You're fearful at the beginning, especially if you're an architect or somebody who feels like they have something to lose by doing business with you likely their own status. If they were to refer, recommend a client or give somebody a shot and you dropped the ball, but the same thing is true. And I think that's good advice is to go into that understanding who they are, what's important to them. Do they line up with our values just because they have an amazing portfolio, you know, and have done amazing work and may have some clients that you would love to work with. They could be a giant risk to your business. So you need to go in and assessing that as well. And it's the mindset where it's a bit of a flipping of the script, where you're going in there and you're interviewing them to find out what's important to them.
(13:47): And if they're a, if they're a fit for your business, instead of looking to ask them to send you anything, you don't, you don't know each other. We get it all the time. Everybody's got spam boxes, filled with requests to do random business with us. That's not what we're looking for in a long, in a longterm business, you talked about, you know, the internal and the external relationships. So there's the external stuff, internal as your own team and how you develop the that. I would say like, do you want to create a new word? Midsternal these are people who are going to be part of your team. These are like your trade partners that you have an ongoing relationship with, but you work closely with, they're just not your employees. There's sort of three different categories there. And then obviously a fourth one is your clients. That's a completely different relationship as well. When you're coaching your businesses, are you coaching them specifically on these different relationships? Are there different things that, that you do for your different audiences and stakeholders?
(14:47): Absolutely. We have to approach each alcoholic category relationship for what that is. You know, building a vendor portfolio is one category. Client engagement is a different category. Internal support staff is another category, all Warren, the same authentic approach, but they do have different needs and different processes that you need to attribute to them in contracting and building. I have clients in, in your industry and building that subcontractor bench of available trades is vitally important, but you can't just work with any tradesman that comes along right. There has, they have to match up with what you want to deliver and how you deliver and how you do business. So there has to be conversation of what's the agreement on both sides of this. Here's what I expect from you. Here's what you should expect from me. There has to be that mutual respect and that agreement before you could even do business, because if you have a standard and the sub not delivering your standard, you, you have a lot of trouble on your hands, right? So there has to be different ways to approach different categories of that business of your business. I should say. So sticking with the trade example, you mentioned, you know, your way of doing it. It sounds like the setting or the understanding of each other's expectations is key. I think it's vitally important. Yes, it needs to be.
(16:24): And it's, it's so huge when you talk about sub-trades. I mean, in this industry, it's the lifeblood of your business. There, there is no doubt about it. You have to look at it's a phenomenal relationship. You have to put together and maintain with these trade partners. Cause you're, there's a lot of situations where you're letting these people go unsupervised on someone else's property. That's a great deal of responsibility. You need to know that, that person's got your back and they need to know that you've got their backup. Yeah. It's a definite two-way street, a really important relationship. And not wanting to be taken lightly,
(17:00): Definitely two way street. And you know what guys, I mean, come on. The building industry is doing very well right now, right? People are spending money on building on major renovations, right? So do you necessarily want to do business with the first trades person that said that answers your call and, and is available? That's a great, you know, availability might be part of your criteria, but that's not the only criteria, right? Pricing model. They all, that's that's one line item for your criteria to do business with that particular traits person. But it's not the only one. So you have to have a set of standards that marries up so that you guys could do business together. Yeah. Those standards are going to be key because if you're truly building a more valuable business that can thrive with less of your time and all of those relationships rest with only you
(17:50): You're doomed. Dwayne talked about, you know, the traits being the lifeblood. I would argue that your project managers are the more essential lifeblood. And we see it all the time business owners that go there, they're usually charismatic leaders and they, and they do a pretty good job over time. They start to develop this trade network and they may have one already. What I think the next level thinking is here, and I'm not sure we haven't spoken about this. So I don't know if you coach around this or not, but how do you transfer relationship as a good leader as a good entrepreneur or business owner, this secret to creating freedom in your business is by empowering the other people on your team to have those relationships. It starts with those, those defined expectations where, Hey, this is a system, this is a process. This is how everything runs. And then the communication becomes the key element around that. And your team is developing the relationship with the trade partners. How do you coach that? How do you teach that? And how do you get an owner out of their own way to be able to do that? Do you guys work on that?
(18:55): Yeah. I mean that, that's the other category of relationships of the internal relationship aspect of your business, right? What, who are you hiring? And can you trust the individual to carry on your mission? You have to engage your people with a set of standards that keeps them motivated. But that also means that they're feeding you with some information too. You can't be a leader and just give without expecting your team to give back. Because if they're not contributing, they're not going to feel like they're part of the team. You have to challenge, especially your, your leaders. You're the leaders below. You need to be empowered to fulfill your, your mission. And that comes by talking to the right. It comes by relationships, right? How do you attract the right people to your organization to do what you really want to be done? But they may have good ideas that you're not even thinking about.
(19:53): One of the best resources that an owner could, could go to for a difference of opinion or ways to, to provide solutions to problems is to ask the people that you hired and entrusted. That's an overseen opportunity by a lot of business owners, business owners need to move away from believing that they have to have all the answers and just believe that they can trust the people that they brought into their organization. That's why I'm a big proponent of putting a heavy emphasis on mindset and attitude over resume. There's a place for resume and credentials. I get that, but you shouldn't hire based on skillset. Only you have to hire for attitude, mindset and the ability and the growth mindset that neat to embrace
(20:51): A quick reminder, that the best way to get the most out of this podcast is to engage with the builder nuggets community, visit our website@buildernuggets.com and follow along on Facebook and Instagram. That's another example I have. It's something that we've found recently that has gone very well with some of the hires that we've been doing is developing a relationship with candidates. You know, there's a lot of resumes you'd have to go, especially in this environment. There's tons of things to sort through people, to talk, to, try to get through to that unicorn project manager or team member. And if you can develop a relationship early on to have a good conversation, it might take a little while to get through all the different layers. And that's going to be way better than running anybody through, you know, some kind of process document and hoping something comes out the other side would, you know, with green lights on it. I think that too is an example of a relationship that that can be cultivated. And are you open to bringing on new people, good people that you identified, even though you may not be a hundred percent in your mind ready?
(21:57): I have a current client. We had conversation just last week. He reaches out to me. He says, Hey James, I have a problem. What's the problem sat down with this. With this individual, he is spot on the guy that I want to be part of my organization. I said, what's the problem because I don't have a place for him. I said, so what do you want to do fast forward to the conversation. It's going to create an opportunity for this guy. You don't let good people walk because they're hard to find. And I assure you, he's going to raise the bar. And everybody in that organization is going to is going to do better. Cause he's bringing in somebody who he sees as a tremendous asset to his company. Sometimes we have to make some tough decisions on the fly, but if you identify good fit, you've got to figure out what you want to do with that person.
(22:47): Because if you let them walk there, they may, they may not be available six months from now. You know, that the modern craftsmen some fellow podcasters, they had a guest on that was a custom cabinet maker. And he hit on something that as soon as he said it, I immediately thought of us today having this recording. And I said, man, that's something I've got to ask James, but it's kind of an example of, you know, good versus bad relationships. And he was talking about how the sort of the old fashion, whether it's, you know, there are some, some industry groups, other business groups that you'll maybe the network for just the sake of networking. And I think there's a lot of people that kind of fall into that. And his example was you get a lot of people in the room and they're there for an hour 90 minutes and they just have these, they have shortened conversations.
(23:30): They're not sincere. They're not really finishing the conversation. They don't go in depth and you move from person to person, to person hoping you're going to get some payoff. And they created something. They call the bad dogs, builders, architects, designers in that area. I think it was up in the area. And it was just for that. It was, it was, they wanted to create a platform where people could get together and actually have some more thorough, lengthy, true conversations to learn about each other and businesses. What's your perspective on that and how maybe networking has changed or, I mean, do you agree to that, that people fall into that trap of sometimes just, just talking for the sake of
(24:05): Yes I do. And I also think that you're, you're missing the point of networking professional networking. If you believe showing up to the event is the end of that, right? The, the value you're going to get out of a networking organization is the relationships you build outside the room. So yes, I think people show up to networking events. I don't know if they have time on their hands or whatever, but they're, they're showing up to these events and it's idle, it's idle communication. Everybody's trying to do the same thing. Let me see how many people I could talk to. But if you're not, if you're not walking out of there with the intention to meet with somebody, then you shouldn't be part of that organization because the relationships don't get built in a one hour event, it's outside the room. Dwayne, when we met, we met in a very structured business networking event being up. But if we just dependent on showing up to that event and leaving the room and never engaging beyond that, we wouldn't know each other. We wouldn't know how to support each other. We wouldn't be here today. So that's my point. You have to underscore the reality of what a networking event is built to do. And that's to tee up opportunity for further discussion and deeper dive. Yeah.
(25:19): You know, as Dave mentioned, there's probably a lot of listeners out there that, you know, I have the relationship thing that we're thinking down can do it without thinking, but there's, I know there's folks out there that whether they're starting a business, trying to grow their business, they, they can struggle with that at times, because they're not sure how to start the conversation. You know, they're not sure what, what are they supposed to say? So maybe you give some examples on what, on ways to engage with people and get into a conversation that might otherwise feel uncomfortable.
(25:45): Is that so they don't have to sign up for speed dating Dwayne. Cause that's, that's what it sounds like. And I picture a room of people who are doing six minute elevator pitches and you learn absolutely nothing. I've been in those before where you, you know, you sit down or you're at the table and somebody coming to you and they want to tell you for six minutes, everything that they do, when the exact opposite, if you're in a room full of people, you should be seeking out as much information as possible. And talking as little about yourself as possible,
(26:18): A lot of industry type meetings and settings have gotten to that, to where you can get into a room to where suddenly not as many builders show up because we have maybe a huge influx of vendor supply. We get a lot of people that come there Vive for the builders time. And there's no focus on any kind of relationship. That's really where the conversation has to go
(26:41): Hands down. You got you. We, we sent it earlier. It's about engaging in the conversation to understand what the other person needs. It's like that soul, that old sales adage of listen more than you talk same holds true with networking. I mean, use the 70 30 role of, you know, I should be listening 70% of the time over 30% talking. If you go into networking and really just ask a couple of questions, the conversation kicks off to dig a little bit deeper. You know, some of the clients I work with, I do a lot of behavior assessments with my clients, you know, to understand what type of personality are you. It's less about extrovert introvert, but let's just use that. As, as an example, there are people who are more naturally inclined to network and be social in a large group. And there's others that aren't when I'm working with individual clients, we understand where's the bottleneck.
(27:36): Where's the challenge for you? Is it that you go to these networking events and you can't shut up because you're just, you're the talker handing out your cards or are you the guy that just wants to show up to because he paid his dues. And now he's just going to sit over to the corner. And hopefully somebody comes to him. Those are two extremes, but those are the two, there's all those people in the world, right? There's people on either side and there's people in the middle, we have to work together on figuring out what are their strengths and weaknesses. Where's the opportunity. How do we refine your skill set to make you a more authentic networker, looking for ways to build your relationships on various sides of the business. When we look at networking, for some reason, we put our categories in our minds of these industry, specific events, these business to business events, very structured type of things, whether it be a chamber BNI, an association of an industry, whatever industry you're in, go beyond that, think outside that, what do you enjoy doing?
(28:44): I w so that individual that doesn't like to network, I would say, what are your hobbies? Where'd you go to school? Do you have, is there an alumni association? Are you into a charity? There is so many other ways to get involved in networking that go beyond the structured business networking component that opens up the eyes of people that are like, well, I don't like networking. It's like, well, yeah. But do you like, do you like shooting? Yeah. Well, Hey, do you belong to that club? You mentioned that club to me all the time. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's talk about developing relationships within a hobby based association, a charity-based association, a country club that's networking.
(29:25): So are you suggesting that builders should actually be humans once in a while? I think it's a good place to think about starting. No, no kidding. One of the, one of the most successful guys we coach, when, when, you know, he goes to some of these events, but where he has the most impact is one-on-one, he has a casual meeting with somebody and says, Hey, I want to learn more about you. I, you know, I have a dinner at this restaurant. You know what you're, you're not far away. Why don't you bring your wife? My wife loves it when I take her there. Why don't we sit down and have a steak? I'd love to learn more about your dinner. And then he clears like the rest of the room is clear. Now he's got the one-on-one time. He's actually being human. The other person feels valued and it's not about selling them anything yet. It's about getting to know who they are and to see if there's something meaningful that can come out of, you know, where, where do we go next?
(30:18): You know, if you could go into any type of networking environment with the intention to learn something and maybe meet somebody that you want to continue with discussion with outside that room, those are two great objectives to think about. Let me go in and try to learn something and meet somebody. I want to have a conversation with going with just that. It's not about anything. More building relationships from a business perspective is like any, I hate to equate it to a sales process, but in sales, you need to build a relationship before you can move the move forward with the conversation. So it's the same thing. It's the same thing. We need to feel like there's something here that we could develop, and then we could go, yeah, that personal connection, you need that.
(31:03): Dwayne and I, when we think about this show, you know, when we talk about what does success look like for us? And it's like, you can, you can map some of it as like website hits or number of times the podcast is downloaded or number of inquiries or email opens, or, you know, whatever it is when you're trying to get a message out. But the number one thing is for when somebody reached that reaches out directly and connects with us, one-on-one to say, Hey, I want to tell you about a story, or I want to give you an idea. I want to share something with you. Those are the things that are the most meaningful. That's what you want to get to is how do you get those one-on-one experiences where you're not just casting out a big net, you're actually narrowing down meaningful relationships where you want help that person. And because they reached out to you because they're wired that same way, either they're asking for help, or they have something to share, you get the chance to connect with them. So, yeah, there's all, there's all kinds of different settings to do that. How do you help people identify which settings they're, they're invested in? You mentioned like a personal skills assessment or personality tests. Do you recommend that for everyone? Because I know a lot of people will say, I don't need that. I know myself,
(32:18): Every client I work with goes through a behavioral assessment with me. It's a process. It's part of the process of my, of my practice. I use disc, which is a tried and true. It's been around a long time, but it is a way to assess, Hey, what, what part of the world, you know, w where do I live compared to other people, as far as, you know, how do approach the world? Because it also helps you for communication. It also helps you for communication. It also helps you for leadership. It helps you better understand yourself. And it really gives my clients a snapshot into what their strengths and opportunities for improvement are. But it also is a cheat sheet for me, because then I could see how do they approach the business world? What's their strengths. And, and, and it gives me a really good understanding of where they're coming from.
(33:07): If I'm a bullet list, kind of guy. And and I have on my team, my number one, my let's say my project lead is more of a conversational get to know you, really personal kind of guy. It's good to understand that because if I want to talk about the weekend on a Monday morning before we get into business, but my boss is all about, here's the three things I need to get done today. You have to understand. It's just, it's just the way you approach the world. It's nothing against you. It's nothing. You know what I mean? So it helps. It's, it's a really cool tool.
(33:38): Start with working on yourself, understanding yourself that goes a long way to understanding other people. Yeah. If you can't lead yourself, you can't lead others. There's your nugget. Anything else, maybe from a relationship networking standpoint that we haven't touched on today, or things that you feel are important to understand?
(34:00): I think from a relationship building perspective, you have to first realize that businesses people. So if you light net like networking, you don't like networking. It doesn't matter. It's business is people doing business with people, it's people and people that's it. So relational over transactionals, the transactions will occur once the relationships are in place. If you could, fast-forward your business. Here's a challenge for, for the business owners that are listening. If you could build a business that was 100% supported by referrals and nothing else, would that be a business that you would want? And if you answer yes to that question, then you have to do the heavy lifting and develop a portfolio of relationships to help get you there because it doesn't happen overnight and successful businesses all over the world are built on referral based relationships. That's where it is.
(35:06): This is such a powerful topic. It's, it's a hundred people that can go into building a home from the clients, through all the trades or all the planning, all the behind the scenes stuff. Even when you get into municipalities and RVs, everybody that touches this, that's a person. One of the things we try and get away from is being treated like a commodity. We hate it when we're treated like a commodity yet. So often it's easy for us to treat those other people like commodity. And that's what I think you, when you say you can't treat your people like a transaction, and that's what happens time and time again, you're framer that guy's a number. He's a quote, he's a bid going out. You will have a fleeting business that has no loyalty attached to it. When you need somebody to come in and solve the problem, the only way is more money.
(35:57): It's not mission. So, you know, if there's something I want to throw out there to challenge people, it's think about where are your traits coming to you, you know, through referrals are, are, is your electrician telling the plumber you got to work with you got to work with James. That's what you want. It's every element don't get stuck in just thinking client relationships or with clients or the referrals, or from clients. If you could have a 100% referral based business, that's what it would be when you're in need of a plumber. Can you pick up the phone and make a phone call and have somebody who's willing? And are you building a business? Do people you're a magnet. It takes time. It is probably the most vital thing in business. That's overlooked. You have to develop these relationships in all categories. Like you're saying Dave, all categories.
(36:52): So to quickly recap and Dwayne, you can add to this I think it starts with working on yourself and understanding your own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to this really spending some time digging into that. Once you do, you're looking at, Hey, what mission am I on? What's, what's my vision. What's my mission. I need to understand myself and what I want to achieve. And then I need to be able to communicate that to my internal team first, and then to everyone externally, once I'm able to do that, I'm able to set expectations of how we're going to work together. I need to have the systems and processes, and we get into all that throughout the show. And then the training and empowerment that leads to the autonomy for your team or for your other trade partners, where they have the you've transferred, not only the knowledge, but the relationship in many cases over to them. Because if the relationship getting back to you, if the relationship only exists with you, when you leave it all falls apart again. So I think one of the big secrets here is that transfer of the relationship throughout your team held together by the glue of the mission, vision, communication systems, and processes, and the training around all that. That is a great, big, huge thing, but the relationships are the inner connective tissue of all of these things.
(38:14): A couple of the things I jotted down where it's gotta be about the other person. I mean, I think that's a great way to approach it. Whether it's a conversation, a new relationship, a you're walking into a networking group, it's got to be about the other person, not, not leading with yourself. Listen more than you talk. That's just straight up good advice there and be an authentic networker. Showing the empathy,
(38:36): Understanding who you're talking to. Take a little time to do a little research on that person before you reach out and get to, as you said, maybe there's some commonalities. Maybe you, maybe you went to the same school or whatever the case, but by doing a little bit of that, you're going to be able to maintain a personal connection. And that that relationship is going to feel a lot more authentic.
(38:57): If you build a strong network around you, you will be afforded opportunities before others are afforded those opportunities. If you go into it with the approach that you're built, it's, it's an investment. Every step of the way, it's, it's an investment you're building on your portfolio. Your portfolio is getting stronger by the strength of the people. You surround yourself with the opportunity for business and getting things done will come. You have to persevere, but you have to be patient. It doesn't get done for you. That's the other takeoff. It doesn't get done for you. It's heavy lifting, but it's like investing, you know, 10 bucks a week into your portfolio. It will pay dividends and, and down the road, right? It's compounding interest. You hit on something, Dave, and I want to just bring it back. The core of your business, the foundation of your business is vitally important to establish your core values, your mission, your vision, who you are, what you're about.
(40:06): If you have a handle on that, if you have your arms around that, and you could really stand steadfast on those core values, then your relationships and the people you surround yourself with are going to naturally marry up with those things in small business, your core values and your, and your foundational elements of your business, become your board of directors. Think of them as that. When a tough decision is being is, is that is, is presented to you. And you go to your board of directors, your values, your mission, the core of who you are, give you the answer.
(40:44): They become your magnet. I mean, your people who share those values that are on your team and that wanting to be associated. That's what brings them in your ability to tell their stories, show their empowerment show. Their success is what becomes the magnet that creates that referral business that you were talking to where everybody says, Hey, you got to go work with this company. Look what this company is, is doing. You're, you're clearly passionate about doing this. I know that you've helped a lot of people. It's gotta be rewarding for you. I mean, developing relationships doesn't have to be a daunting thing. It can be fun. Like, think about the experiences that you've got to have. And some of these things turn into actual friendships and things where you're doing sports. We've got builders that are going, how to think together and suppliers that are doing fun, amazing things, and supporting each other's
(41:34): Families during times of tragedy or hardship. Again, getting back to that human element. This is so rewarding. And on top of all of that, it makes your business a more valuable asset. If you can keep to it and just spend a bit of time, it can be highly, highly personally rewarding. A great, very spot on stuff. I mean, I think it relates to where a lot of us are. We does. Dave said, it's, it's so important in relationships in the business. So thanks again for taking your time and how can some of the listeners out there find you if they're looking for you? Easiest thing to do is go to my websites. My name, James pagano.com, James pagano.com. Easiest way to find me. I'm also on LinkedIn. If they want to look there, I appreciate the opportunity. This was fun. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. It's good to have relationships such as yourself. This is good. I like this. See, we had some fun and got some business done at the same time. That's good stuff.
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