Find Out The Biggest Lie Guroobs are Telling You About Podcasting

Find Out The Biggest Lie Guroobs are Telling You About Podcasting

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Your information is 100% secure and will never be shared by anyone.

Marriage takes work and this is especially true when you work with your spouse. Each year, thousands of couples take on the challenge of starting a business together. They get to spend more time together and pursue their passion with their best friend.

Unfortunately, not every couple has this experience.

Working with your spouse can be stressful – and that stress can radiate out into all areas of life. It’s an extremely challenging balance – so what’s the difference between the Entrepreneurial couples that make it and those that break up?

Today I’ve got another – yes ANOTHER – special guest on the Daddy’s Working show. Today I’m joined by Ray Gonzalez. Ray and his wife have created multiple 7-figure businesses together and their mission right now is to help Entrepreneurial couples create the life and business of their dreams.

Show Highlights Include:

  • The beginner’s guide to the deliberate practice of personal growth (5:30)
  • Short-term motivation vs. long-term inspiration (7:00)
  • Deciding to work together as a couple: what things were like in the beginning (8:15)
  • How Ray uses his core values to live his best life (19:00)
  • Critical money habits of people who grow up poor (20:10)
  • Why work-life balance is total B.S (22:45)

How would you like to spend more time with your family and less time in your business? Go grab yourself a copy of my Digital Daddy’s Toolkit where you’ll get my top 3 speed-influence tools to make you a trusted expert in any market. FAST. Go to www.daddysworking.com/ddt

Read Full Transcript

No don't go in there, Daddy's working.

Jonathan: Yes, yes, y'all - it is another edition of Daddy's Working, and again, I'm flipping the script on you. I'm changing things up. I am inviting another daddy on the show to speak with us. So here is my man, Ray. What is up?

Ray: What's up, my man? I'm excited to serve you, your audience, and just be of service, man.

Jonathan: Man, do you really mean that? So many people say they want to "be of service." What - are you being for real right now?

Ray: No, what I find is whenever I go to serve and I help people, it always comes back, man. And then I get to make asks too, so. My being of service isn't coming from a selfish place, but Jonathan, you best believe I'm going to make asks of you, 100%, but I also want to help. [0:01:04.0] Right? So it's… I want to help and you, by reciprocation, you can help me. So why would I rob you of receiving? Right?

Jonathan: This guy… you sound like the godfather - "One day, I'm going to ask you for a favor."

Ray: No! It's just a love for the universe. You know how it is, man. Like if I could really help you in any way, connect you, that's going to only serve you and your audience and then help me too.

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. So speaking of the audience, bro, you guys have -- let's just put it out there right now because you're one of the few people that I've spoken to that actually has a podcast. Tell us a little bit about your show.

Ray: My show is, me and my wife, it's called Both On Board. We're on all where podcasts are played. It's about helping entrepreneur couples co-create the life and business of their dreams, and really, it's about at a deeper level, making suffering and entrepreneurial relationships optional. You're going to have some pain, but suffering, where you're both suffering through it, and you know what I mean because you're in a relationship - that's optional. That's your own stuff you're bringing into that relationship. [0:02:01.1] So, we built three, several, three multimillion dollar businesses, her and I together, and we want to share with you all the ups, downs, things we have learned, things we have done right, things we have done wrong and the evolution process and how others can do it too, and do it their way, not our way. Your way.
Jonathan: What… like that is a really strong word and it must have come from experience. What do you mean "suffering" because if you guys have built business after business together, it sounds like you got it dialed in. What is this suffering you're talking about?

Ray: Oh that's, man, you're successful in the money realm or successful on the health realm or even in the dad realm - success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure, so what we're all looking for is really joy. Joy is what we're all looking for and we create suffering when things aren’t going right or we have an expectation of her or I want her to do something and she's not being a certain way or I'm trying to change her to be something she's not, rather than accepting her for who she is, both complete and perfect, and her being what I call my number 1 personal development tool. [0:03:01.0] All she's doing is projecting back on me what I'm sending her way, but the challenging thing is, Jonathan, you and I are real men and we're willing to be vulnerable and open and look inward. But a lot of guys don’t want to have that talk, right? Because it's not the… and you, you know, you're Puerto Rican and I'm Cuban, I mean, dude, this does not go over well culturally, and yet, all the men in my family, when I look at their relationship, they don’t have what I want. What I want is a thriving, epic, passionate relationship where we're pitching and catching, and there's a mutual growth and respect and iron is sharpening iron. I'm not coming to the relationship thinking… and she's not coming to the relationship thinking… oh, we are already whole individually, and now like, my man, what is name, Fabolous says, "I'm a movement by myself but I'm a force when we're together." Right? So now, we expand each other. Yeah? And that.. guys, the purpose of relationship is to expand each other. It's supposed to be an expansion, not a contraction. That's why you got together.

Jonathan: That's an interesting concept - expanding. Because everybody is like… yeah, I have never thought of it that way, actually. [0:04:00.7] It's like, I get it. Like, what we do at home is like we want to grow, and I'm the leader of growth and my wife is hesitant about it, but she knows it's good and she knows that I care about her and I care about our son, and I care about our future, so she's on board for it. But I never really thought about coming together as an expansion. It almost seems like it's impossible. I wonder why I think that? I wonder what the heck is wrong with me. What did I grow up with?

Ray: Yeah, you model - you model the typical Latin, right, where the man is this and that… but here's what I've learned is once you figure out where you family values are, like for Christy and I, personal growth comes first. Now she has her own ways of meeting that need and I have my own ways, and sometimes they're in alignment and sometimes they're not. But we're both growing in the same direction. So as long as each one of you is growing independently and then you guys are growing together, the relationship will not grow apart. So this has been, you know, just because of the pain drove me, and it's like a lot of guys I see them that have been divorced or gone through it in the relationship. [0:05:02.1] And I say "Guys, what happened? And always, I hear the same derivative of the story "We grew apart." I'm like, "Well that doesn’t just happen, so what really happened?" "Well, she was going in this direction, and I was going in this direction." Or "She wasn’t growing at all, and I was growing in this direction and then we just grew apart." And that's what happens, man.

Jonathan: So you said you have your way of personal growth and she might have hers and sometimes they overlap. Tell me some of the ways that you intentionally practice personal growth.

Ray: Right now, so my biggest undertaking right now is the spiritual growth. So what I'm doing every day, I've got two coaches. So the first thing we always do at this level, her and I, like so right now, Jonathan, her and I are playing high-level ball. Like we're not playing low-level ball. High-level ball is being played and we both… so, because high-level… now it wasn’t always this way so don’t compare or contrast, just wherever you guys are at in the process, that's where you start. Right now, we're in a place where we're playing high-level ball, so right now, you asked what I'm working with. Right now, we always get coaches. [0:06:00.8] Right now, my biggest thing is on the spiritual side, so I've got a spiritual coach that is working me through, that's working me through akashic records and third dimension, fifth dimension and kind of like evolving that space, manifestation, those kinds of things. And then I've got another spiritual coach helping me more with day-to-day, like connecting with you. There is no… Jonathan, we didn't connect by chance. Everything is happening for us and through us, right? There was… it was intentional that I sat next to you on that seat. Like it was not… it just didn't happen, on both seats, right. There was again, the law of attraction, the law of the universe is lining things up for you, people that vibrate with, vibrational match, so then you can do something together and make impact, right? So, again, it's not monetized. Is how do we serve together? How do we… and maybe it's just the joy in kicking it with Jonathan, right? So there's joy in that. So for me, it's been really into spiritual growth and really just being joyful in the present moment and being more present. So more or less an idea of me being rather than doing. I've done a whole lot in my past from not a lower place, Jonathan, but I've done a whole lot from a place of hustle, drive, grind. [0:07:03.9] "Let's do more, let's be more, let's go, let's go, let's get it. Hey, what are we meditating for? Let's just fucking rock!" Yeah, and you can achieve things like that, but then you get, and here's the challenge with that, that's short-term motivation. I think, long-term, to succeed, you need inspiration. So motivation will drive you, but I think, long-term, it's not going to work. Long-term, you've got to listen to what your soul is here to do and kind of double and triple down on that and you do it from that place, be from that place. Because, talking about being a dad too, and being a dad changed a whole lot of things for me because it wired me to really be present with my daughter and then show her how another, how I want a man to be with her. The same thing with my wife - and I still, guys, I still struggle with this. It's not like I've got this all figured out, and I'm getting better and better at it - just awareness alone is powerful. So, the spiritual path is the path for me, and I'm just evolving in it. So I'm just starting off on that path. So that's what - that's what my growth looks like right now.

Jonathan: I like the idea of growing in the same direction. That is fascinating and I've not heard it put that way before. [0:08:02.8] So, let's rewind a little bit, right? You guys are - you're evolving, you're growing, you're getting better, you're now giving advice to other folks like us so that we can learn from your journey. But what was it like in the beginning? When you two decided to work together, what did that look like?

Ray: I'll keep it 100 with you, dude. There were times when she would close the frigging bathroom door and lock herself up in the bathroom and cry, and I felt miserable, bro. I mean, that was bad. That's how… because she quit - my wife was a schoolteacher, so she's always had a serving heart and a teacher's heart at heart, and third and fourth grade, so. And it was painful because she quit that and you know, went all in with us, you know? So I felt miserable and I, at that time, I had some resources and actually I, right, because I was already in real estate when she had to quit. I could have helped her financially and I didn't. And you know, on our podcast, you'll hear like a podcast on money, which has been the most downloaded podcast, so I guess people do struggle with money in their relationships, so I didn't know it was a thing until the data showed us, right? [0:09:05.4] So we struggled with that, man, and then kind of like, remember you come into a relationship and your wife, I'm sure, has different money habits and rituals, things that she modeled and saw from her parents and you, growing up Latin, have your own version of that, and then now you bring these two people together who have two different models of money, and what that means, and now you want to complicate that. Let's say an entrepreneur is actually successful and has some material wealth, now stuff really gets complicated, right? Because, right? So initially it was that. So here's what I tell you where the blessing is, because I believe that in every tough time, there's a blessing that comes with it, right? Every lesson brings a miracle or blessing with it. So the blessing was, and I just discovered recently while we were on a podcast and we were talking about it. She goes, I'm happy you didn't bail me out. Even though it was rough on the relationship, I am happy you didn't because it helped her figure out all her own money issues. It helped her pay off her credit cards. It helped her grow that muscle, where otherwise, she wouldn’t have been able to learn it, right? [0:10:00.6] Because in the entrepreneurship world, you only _____. I was already used to that, but she wasn’t used to that, right? So, what I advise a lot of entrepreneurs now is that if they're going to work together and one has more means or one has an established business is, and that other person's highest need is security, pay them a salary, a small salary from the business so that you can alleviate that. Again, it doesn’t mean that they're going to want it less. The truth is, she would have wanted it maybe even more, but again, it was now the uncertainty, the scarcity, like, and this just created tension everywhere and we didn't need to go through that pain. We're happy we did and it served a purpose, and yet, I think that there's a lot more elegant ways to get that result.

Jonathan: That is crazy. So, alright - how long have you guys been married?

Ray: We got married two or three years ago. We had been dating for like seven or eight years.

Jonathan: And when did you guys start working together, like when did she quit that teacher job and come on board?

Ray: 2011.

Jonathan: Oh, so it's been since the beginning. I see. That's why you guys are separate. You're not in the typical. [0:11:00.3] I actually found that arrangement to work, and it was my wife who had the better money habits than me and some people would find this weird, I imagine, but we had kept out - we have always kept separate accounts. Like, we keep separate accounts always. We bring our money together to do whatever we need to do, but we both have our own thing, and that has been great because I stepped up to her level. And so, I see where your wife is coming from. You helped her step up her game through the struggle, which is admirable, and not many people can do that. So in the beginning, so the money was a problem and you could have helped that. You learned that now. What about just day-to-day working together? Did you guys just gel in the beginning or was there hard times? Were you a little, like a little boss on her or what? What?

Ray: The type that was controlling because I'm, you know, like I can be controlling. I thought I was micromanaging, and then she was trying to be me. She was trying to say, hey, this is what an entrepreneur does, is kind of like be Ray, but that was me. And then we were stepping on each other's toes. [0:12:00.2] We didn't have what I call roads, lanes, and responsibilities assigned and then we just… we didn't know what her unique ability was or what my gifts were, kind of hold the assessments and/or ditched assessments for both. All these things, strength finders, unique ability, like all these things to figure out what she's good at, what I'm good at, and then have, you know, divide and conquer. We were just stepping on each other's toes left, right, and center and just creating a lot of headaches. But again, it's our story. You learn from it. And like the nice thing now, guys, when you make it through to the other side, we have been through so much that - you know what I mean - like anything that comes up now is easy. A matter of fact, it's with ease. And I also look forward to doing things with her because I know that she brings unique skill sets and things and like, I'm more fire energy, right? Let's go! Let's go! Let's get it done! Let's go, let's go, let's bang! And she's hold on, let's get grounded, let's set up a system - what do you want to talk about? Let's be… like even with the podcast - let's have an outline of what we want to cover and then she's a little bit flowy, but she needs that structure, so she brings…she brings that soft touch to my…. She kind of like evens out my rough edges, Yeah?

Jonathan: [0:13:04.8] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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Jonathan: [0:14:03.5] See, we tried it when we first got married. We tried working together and I was doing my real estate business and she came onboard, and it was... I mean, the fact that we stayed married I think is a testament to how much we loved each other. But it wasn’t pleasant and she had to go out and get a job because I was a shitty leader. I didn't even know how to lead myself, and how was I going to lead this beautiful woman. I didn't have it in me. I was immature. I was complete nonsense. Seriously, in the beginning. But it took…

Ray: Me too.

Jonathan: It didn't happen until we had our kid, actually. Because what you just said there, and I want to highlight it because it's one of the reasons why this is working for us, and I want to make sure that the listeners understand how important this is, is that idea of knowing unique ability. Taking that Colby. Taking that strengths finders. Finding the places where you guys are strong and putting you in the best spot for success because this time when she came on board, I had her do a Colby, a strengths finder. [0:15:03.0] Then we went down through the list of work that we have to do in our company and I just lined up her strengths with the possible work that looked good for her. Some things worked; some things didn't. We got an assistant for that. But that's a place for, you know, you gotta get mature, and how did you do that? Did you have mentorship? Did you have help? How did you guys figure that out?

Ray: As we started to scale, as we started to scale the company and bring on other people and want to bless other people with our opportunity to kind of join our team, it had to work. And I looked at the data, guys, the accounting for example, it wasn’t getting done when I was doing it. And it wasn’t getting… like it was not consistent. Like it just, you know, look at the proof. Does it work better when she runs it? Yes. The home - does it work better when she runs it? Yes. With my daughter and her schooling - does it work better when she runs it? Absolutely, right? So, and then giving her control, like what Jonathan said, was a great statement, guys, in terms of like, I was an asshole. Like it's just like, I was immature. [0:16:00.6] I wasn’t ready to step up as a man and be a provider and own this area of my life, and then, ultimately, I wanted control and in control nothing grows. She has to be her own person. So Jonathan, once you give her ownership of something, she runs with it. That's her game. Now, she may come back for advice but I am not running that show. That's her running that show and I'm more giving some input. Here's what's possible, guys, and I love the question, Jonathan. Here's what's… I want to give you guys an idea of what's awesome. What's awesome about working together and you guys generate revenue together and do it together is you guys start to build the same money habits and values, meaning how you make investments in the world. Meaning you want to go to a vacation - well, how does that get valued? You want a certain kind of lifestyle? How does that get value? So you just have to share now in the values of how do we now spend money, right? Because you've made it together so you guys know the value it takes to generate that revenue dollar amount, right? So it's not about whether or not we're going to spend the money. [0:17:00.8]

It's a question of we're going to get more value than receive and getting clarity on hey, what we value. We're both in a very high-level mastermind. That's big dollars. I'm in a big dollar one. She's in a big dollar mastermind. Well, we both know that personal development ranks high; it is number one in our values list. So we have open checkbook to hire coaches and masterminds. Like she doesn't have to check with me. Open checkbook. You want to hire this person, babe? Open checkbook. Hire them. She just started a new like marketing course yesterday or the day before. So I guess that's what I… that's what's possible, guys, is that you guys can really figure… like as you guys work together, you create this synergy. You figure out what you guys really want as a couple and what you guys are about, and Jonathan, the other thing I'm going to kind of like leave your listeners with is - what I love about strength finders and all those things is that the reason you attracted that couple is because they were good at things that you sucked at. Because the universe, the universe seeks balance. See, the universe, like with one song, one verse, right, universe. The universe seeks balance and integration, right? [0:18:01.2] So you're great at all these things but she may want some of the things you have and you might want some of the things she has. So for example, she was great at turning off and going on vacations. Dude, I was terrible at that. So I wanted more of that. And she had like an off, chill mode that I liked. Like she, she was driven and hungry, but it wasn’t on all the time, right? And she could communicate with people and she was so compassionate and caring and I go, damn I want some of that. Do you know what I mean? But I wasn’t allowing myself to do that. So, I mean, Jonathan, I'm sure you see that in your wife, when you look at your relationship, do you, your life needed some of that.

Jonathan: Tons of that. I was… you think you were rough? I don't know. Maybe you were rough. I was like, I can't even imagine the person that I was, I don’t even know how she even liked me. She probably just wanted to make me better. She was like, awww look at this little mess; I'm going to fix him.

Ray: Jonathan, they all do that, man.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Ray: They see potential and God bless her, and my wife and your wife, for seeing it.

Jonathan: Man, so tell me. You keep talking about this. You keep bringing it up. [0:19:01.3] What are your core values?

Ray: From the last event that you and I went on and just getting clear on what I want, the biggest thing for me personally, one of the biggest core values for me is definitely growth, being able to grow and expand, being able to serve, right, use that growth and expansion and serve and add value, gratitude, appreciation. Look, man, I'm very clear that my grandfather had not left Cuba 60 years ago, like my life would have been completely different. I would not have this idea where I could actually live my life to my fullest potential. I'd be limited by the environment and you know, your parents leaving Puerto Rico, I mean, I go back to that and often. It's a fucking disaster. I love the island and it's a disaster. I mean, let's call a spade a spade. I mean, not as bad as Cuba, but, so, gratitude man. Gratitude is huge. What else? Man, accountability. You know, accountability with yourself, doing what you say you're going to do and how did you attract this idea that you attract things is important for me. Forgiveness - forgiving yourself, having empathy and being compassionate. [0:20:03.1] I think a lot of times like most of us entrepreneurs are very hard on ourselves. So just forgiving yourself and allowing that to be.

Jonathan: So Ray, let me ask you this because your family came over. They had some hardships, but what was growing up like? What was money like in your house when you were growing up?

Ray: Well you had to work hard. My dad was always working; so was my mom. Never had enough. He hoarded it and she spent it, right? So that was the relationship. He was always working - Saturdays, Sundays, you know, so kind of very little dad time, missing birthdays, that kind of stuff. And I'm grateful for him. I mean that's what money was like. It was always a struggle. We, you know, I was working at a very early age - 8, 9, 10 years old over at the flea market on the weekends. Started working my first real job at 14, 15 at you know, the shopping cart thing at one of the local stores, but you know what? I mean, it taught me money habits. It taught me a lot of things. And you know, and in the relationship, they were abusive to each other, my parents, but they loved each other, but they were abusive to each other, right, physically and verbally, and my dad was a playboy. [0:21:02.8] I mean, you Puerto Rican boys, you know how they roll. So my dad was a playboy, and I saw that and I saw the pain that it created, so I kind of never did that, man. I never kind of rolled that way, just. So this idea of Louise Hays, where I learned it from, and she talks about that - you choose your parents. You come into this world to choose your parents, so your soul chooses them. You come down here because they're going to teach you something, and that's what I learned. So everything is happening for you and through you. So, I'm grateful for my dad and my mom. I wouldn’t be the person who I am. I wouldn’t be so driven to grow and expand and learn all this personal development stuff if I had an amazing upbringing.

Jonathan: You know, that's awesome. You know, that is awesome. Because you know, there's 98% of people out there that are saying "My upbringing is messed up and that's why I'm messed up. So I love to hear that. It was messed up and I say, hey, I don’t want that. I can do better. [0:22:00.2] Because that's freedom, isn't it? The power of choice. The power to take action. The power to make a difference. That's what makes us free. That's why we're sitting here right now. That's why you're free to have a great relationship and be a great dad, and I don’t think enough people really are grateful for the freedom that they have, or even notice that they have it. Like, I learned and I can do something different. That is powerful, man. So look, what didn't I ask you? Was there something that you thought we were going to talk about that we didn't talk about in these last couple of minutes here?

Ray: Your audience - who is your audience and kind of what do they, what are their challenges? Are they looking at as the dad part, as the help part or is it the integration of all of it?

Jonathan: The way I have set this up, and the people that I know from my audience, the whole two listeners besides me, are guys who want what I call harmony. And so I don’t believe that there's anything like work-life balance. I think that's BS. There's, like you said, seasons where you gotta really put up or shut up and then there's seasons where you gotta chill out. But these guys listening to this show right now want to know how to have harmony between family, faith, fitness, and finances.
Ray: [0:23:04.1] That one. I agree with you, wholeheartedly. There are seasons and in different seasons you're going to have different things, different things be at a higher level. Here's what it really is, guys - get clarity, which is huge, which we kind of went over this last a bit, so get clarity of what season you're in. Are you in spring? Are you in summer? Are you in fall, winter? Get clarity what season you're in and then what that looks for you in that season in the area of your faith and the area of your finances and areas of your fitness and the areas of your fun, family, and your finances. So, once you get clear on all those five or six tasks, your level, guys. Right, so like for example, I'll give you an example before my wife was having a baby, I couldn't have my fitness at a level 10 then, right? It just wasn’t going to make sense. I would have to go somewhere else, and that was not going to work because she was eating all kinds of different foods while she was pregnant. It just, it didn't work. Now I still kept the process of going to the gym up, right. That I kept. But I wasn’t at 7% body fat; I was at 15% body fat, right? [0:24:00.0]

For example, right? So, what I'm saying to you, so integration is what I believe in. How do you get all of what you want, at the level you want it, and then also understanding, guys, that there are tradeoffs, but the more you integrate, the more tradeoffs. Let me give you an example of what that looks like day-to-day. I want to hang out with grandma and I want to hang out with my daughter, and I need to get my workout in because I'm on 75 Hard. Alright. I'm going to pick up grandma for an hour drive. I'm going to take her to the ocean. I'm going to get in a kayak. My daughter loves kayaking, and then we're going to do that together. So I'm integrating fitness. I'm outdoors. I'm getting _____. So how do you meet these multiple needs - my daughter likes to, I take my daughter out for a run with me. She runs very slow, I mean, whatever, it is what it is. She's 3. But I have a weight vest on and I speed walk or I run right beside her, and we make it fun. Or she'll climb on top of me as I do flag poles. So again, it's about integration. My wife just started working out. I bought her a whole bunch of, she never used to work out before - she did yoga. I bought her a whole bunch of, a training package, and then now, she has… she works with a trainer and I'm in the same area that she's training, but we're connecting. [0:25:04.7] She's not training with me because that can be too much for her to follow my directions in there, but she's training, and now we're having that connection together. So it's, again, how do you integrate these things, guys, so that you have it all, you know, all at the level that you want for the given season that you're in.

Jonathan: Damn, bro. That was …

Ray: Does that make sense?

Jonathan: Yeah. You know, because I'm getting ready to get on 75 Hard, and I'm thinking two workouts a day, but like you said, I throw my kid on the back of the bike. We go out for a bike ride. It counts. I'm outside and I'm doing a bike ride 45 minutes.

Ray: And they love it. Yeah. Or going down, get a little kayaking, throw them on a kayak. That means… it's … you can do a ton of stuff, man.

Jonathan: Yeah. I hadn’t even, didn't occur to me, bro. You just… and I love the idea of integration and getting more out of every minute because we have a finite amount of time. So how do you get the most out of it? So Ray, look, this is awesome. I know that you have a busy schedule. Where can people find out more about your podcast or you or wherever you want to send them, because I know that they want to know more about you.

Ray: [0:26:03.5] The best thing and we have got 10 or 11 episodes out there. The next one drops tomorrow on finances at a higher level because we have got a lot of … we did a finance 101, and now it's a finance 202, right? So Both On Board is the name of the podcast. You can follow me on also Facebook at Ramon Gonzales and on Instagram @officialramongonzales.

Jonathan: And notice how he rolled those R's, just to show you.

Ray: But, it's not a Puerto Rican R, baby.

Jonathan: Oh, too good, too good, brother. Thank you so much, man. Thank you. In this little amount of time, you have made a big impact, and I'm grateful for having you on, brother. We will, hopefully, be talking again. I know we'll be talking inside our mastermind, but I think you need to come back on the show again. Thank you so much. And everybody, go check out Both On Board wherever you listen to podcasts.

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