Have a podcast in 30 days

Without headaches or hassles

In this episode, you’ll discover… 

  • How to make your team smile when you hand them more work (4:18)
  • Why putting God in your core values attracts the best people into your business (even if it seems like it repels potential employees and customers) (5:25)
  • How being vulnerable during initial interviews “ethically forces” candidates to fall in love with working for you (11:12)
  • The “Character First” hiring method that guarantees you don’t have to fire a new employee as quick as you hired them (13:27)
  • Why making more money every single month sabotages your company culture (and how to grow your company without bankrupting your culture) (18:49)
  • The subtle “work for them” mindset shift that makes people line up wanting to work for your company (33:58)

Are you crushing it at work but struggling at home? If you want to learn how to win at home, then go to https://CoryMCarlson.com and download your free copy of “10 Ways To Win At Home.”

If you're looking for a resource to help you with these times when your work is now in your home, check out my book Win At Home First on Amazon. Forbes Magazine rated it one of 7 books everyone on your team should read.

Read Full Transcript

Welcome to the win at home first podcast. I'm your host, Cory Carlson. This podcast is where we talk about how successful business leaders win, not only at work, but also at home. On this podcast, we will go behind the scenes with great leaders to hear stories of how they win. Thank you for listening and on to today's episode.

(00:25): Hello, this is Corey today's episode is a unique one in the standpoint of interviewing two people at the same time, Nick and Jordan, who both worked for Manny contracting because the first podcast episode I did with Manny contracting was, was just Nick. And that podcast episode actually attracted a few new employees to your organization. So as we thought about it more, we thought, Hey, let's dive deeper into this. So in this episode, it's both Nick and Jordan. We've talked about how they use their vision and values to recruit new employees, how they use it to retain existing employees.

(01:03): We talked about the difference between them two as individuals. One's a visionary. One is an implementer. So if you are a visionary and work with an implementer or vice versa, lots of tips to help you understand how to work with that individual. And then we also talk about what do each of them do to help their mindset, help their spiritual growth individually, as they are growing a company at a very fast pace, but yet still thinking through figuring out how to be dependent on God. It's an awesome episode. One, that if you are building culture, you need to pay attention to because they give all kinds of good tips to help you build a culture at a company. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did and on to today's episode.

(01:49): Hello, this is Corey Carlston. You're listening to win at home. First podcast. Today is a fun episode because we've never done something like this. This is a cone, a part two of an episode we did earlier, where we had Nick Manning on from Manny contracting to talk about the business. And there's been actual people who have heard the podcast and decided they want to come work for Manny contract. And when they heard about the vision, they heard about the values. And so there's two employees that came and joined the company because of that reason. So as Nick and I were talking, we thought there may be more of this story to be told for others, to hear about the importance of vision, the importance of values and what that looks like. So today's Nick Manny, but we're also joined by Jordan Gafford, who is the COO of the company who helps us out with the day-to-day implement implementations and making things happen. So to get both these individuals perspective on what is happening, how God is working through Manning and just the neat things that they are doing. So Jordan and Nick, thank you very much for being a part of the win home first podcast. Thanks for having us. So we'll just dive right in to just that, that of some people heard this, they love the culture, they love the vision and values and people have left other employers to come join you, you know, tell me a little bit more about

(03:11): That. Yeah, so we've been very fortunate and, and since we started Manning contracting, we were very intentional about we really wanted to be a talent organization that just happened to do construction. And, and I've said to Jordan and anybody else that'll listen to me. You know, if our biggest burden is we have too many talented people and we got to go find the work to keep them busy. Like I like our chances. And so for us, as, as we've kind of thought through what we want this place to be about, we really start holistically with the employees that we want, the type of lifestyle we want to provide, not skirt around the fact that you're going to work hard and it's going to be challenging. But for us, it was, it was very important from day one that, that people knew what kind of tempo we wanted to set around here and what the culture wanted to be.

(03:56): And here recently, as we've grown, we have 27 employees. Now you start to see these circles and people get touched and, and other folks are bringing folks that they know in cause they get here and they feel it. And one of our cool things that we keep track of is we, we, we always ask people two weeks after they started like, Hey, are you excited to be here? And traditionally, and so far, I think we're, you know, a hundred percent, everybody's more excited, two weeks in than they were when they started, which I think can be backwards because I think a lot of times folks will sell someone really hard on a business and, and they'll get them real excited to come join. And then they'll get here in the pile of mountain of work that lies ahead is, is, is daunting. And they get a little nervous.

(04:34): And by the way, the power of work does exist here as well. But also like our family culture feel is very thick. And to your point on like the employees, and I think I said to you the other day, it's like, there's people that are showing up now that are bought in before they're brought in. And I think that's like, Jordan, let him talk. Like what he's doing on the culture side, kind of, we do like a culture screen first before we figure out competency like cultures first for us kind of how we've done that to your point. I had an employee or an interviewee show up and we sat down and she goes, I heard you on the wind at home podcasts, like, oh my God. And she's like, I was telling my husband, I need to go work for this company. And she said she joined and she left a monster construction company was really excited to join.

(05:14): But another gentleman that was interviewing from Hawaii at the time, and he had offers from three of the top 10 largest construction companies in Cincinnati. By the time we talked to him, but Colin and Jordan sent that podcast over and he listened to it. And you know, for him, he was like, man, this is interesting. You guys are talking about God and your core values, and we'll talk, I'm sure more about that. And talking to these folks and hearing how excited they are about that, you know, for us, we were nervous to put that in our core values. I'm just wondering if it polarize us against folks, but then it's been an absolute blessing. It's a great conversation starter. And it's something that's really important to us. I don't know if you have in that,

(05:52): That yeah. Particularly talking about, you know, having gotten our core values, you know, there's, there's numerous folks we've interviewed as well, that haven't ended up being employees here, but that I've taken interviews with us primarily because of that. So for the two that Nick mentioned that are on the team now, there's probably been six or seven folks that have come through and interviewed because they were curious about how you, you made this statement about who you are and who you want to be. I want to get to know you guys a little bit better. And so it's been incredibly rewarding to see how that decision, which wasn't made on a whim where we debated about that for a long time. Actually, it's been really, really cool to see how God has kind of rewarded that step in faith and how that's really drawn folks to the business and, and at an elevated sense of curiosity from a lot of people about who we are and who we want to be as

(06:43): A company. Yeah. And like, to be clear, and this is what I want to Jordan on the podcast. I mean, there's five of us that came up with our core values and, and just for the audience, what is the core values

(06:54): Honor for two quality communication? So the way we described this as honor, honor God, your employees, your customers, with the way you do it, how you do it, a fortitude. I can't think of any more strategic way to say it. It's just run towards gunfire. And so for us, it's like, this is a tough business and things are gonna happen and we run towards it. We don't run away from it. Quality. Obviously there's going to be a level of quality with the work we do and we can't ever, ever, ever, ever skimp on quality. And that communication just for us in the construction industry, feels like there's an opportunity to be professional communicators that keep people in involved and understanding what's going on. But specifically on the honor, God piece, we all sat in a room and there's five of us in there and came up with these core values with no cards.

(07:39): And Jordan had a whole exercise. That was awesome. And I was nervous about putting Connor got in there. And I spoke about a couple customers specifically. And just in general, I was like, man, I feel like some people are going to push back on this and there's going to be, it's going to create some, an uncomfortable conversation. If we're going to be sitting down and talking about a $73 million commercial construction project. And our first slide's going to be, we honor God. Like how how's that going to play out? And like, Jordan was like, like pushed really good in a really good way towards like, why, why it's important because it is who we are. And it's like, we don't hide from it, but it was just, you know, as you make that transition and making it a core value, which for us, the core value is if you don't know anything about us or you don't know anybody in this office or under this roof, like you shouldn't have our core values. Cause then you'll know who we are. And so that was, that was, it was a, it wasn't easy for me to make that decision. I would say, I think I was probably the last person to jump on board.

(08:31): Yeah. And we'll say the folks at interview process like faith is a very personal decision. We're not putting that on anybody, whether it be an employee or a customer, but to us, it's the most succinct, the most succinct way to communicate our why. Right. If you ask why we make a certain decision and then you ask why, why, why, why? And you keep that. Why trail going? Eventually, it's going to end at the leaders of this business, want to glorify God in the way that they work and honor God, the way that they work. And so in an effort to be good communicators and succinct and how we communicate the why. So Jordan, how did, I mean the typical pushback from anybody about putting God in there as well? We're going to turn potential employees away. We're going to turn, what about customers? What about revenue?

(09:11): We could lose revenue because of God being in our values. And we don't want to do that. And especially now it's a sensitive time where we don't want to make people mad by saying God, and now, now we're excluding people. How did you in the conversation, you know, convince Nick and others to say, you know what I have to do this? What we all agreed upon was that this is authentically who we are. Right? And so if people are going to enjoy working here, we need to communicate out on the front end to them who we are. Right. And what we're about, why would we hide that in the interview process? Then folks get here and have a problem with the leaders of this business, having this be an important component of their lives and important part of the culture of the business. So for us, it's like, well, we should put that out front.

(09:59): Right? So folks, both official employees and customers, we communicate openly. And honestly, from the jump, this is what is important to us. This is a key tenant and who we are rather than hiding it from them and surprising them on the back end. You know, to me, it's good stewardship on us from that, that friendship or that relationship to be upfront about it. And not that we're going to beat anything over anybody's head about it, you know, but being transparent and like, this is who we are and, and we're going to love you and care for you. And we're going to work like dogs to deliver for you both as a customer and an employee. And it starts in this relationship that we have got that's good. And a lot of companies will just have the values on a wall, like a plaque on the wall, whether they're even actual or not, but they never really talked about them.

(10:43): And hearing already, you guys use your values as a recruiting tool. We'll talk about once the employees in here, what that looks like, but from a recruiting tool, I mean, like you said, Nick, you had a potential candidate. You sent them the earlier episode we did on went home first, that podcast, I'm sure there's other resources you're sending there, but you're using values to recruit employees. Obviously we've given two good examples. Is there anything else that's standing out in that recruiting process when it comes to values? A couple of different ways, obviously taking that stance has brought folks into the room, right? So it's allowed maybe a more intimate conversation and an initial interview than you would normally have. You know, a lot of times, especially in an initial interview, you get a lot of guard up, you get a lot of corporate answers. But I think when you show a sense of vulnerability about who you really are, or you talk about, take a leap and you talk about God and your core values, which leads to a conversation about faith.

(11:35): Often in our first interview, you get a more intimate conversation for both the employer and employee. We've gotten deeper, faster in a first interview than I think we probably would have otherwise, which we like. And then second value of fortitude. We try to paint a pretty accurate picture of like, things are really fun here growing really fast, but they are, you know, plenty of problems to solve and an issues like we're far, far, far, far from perfect. And we try to really pay an accurate picture of that in the interview process and that 42 word, you know, if we deliver on commitments, regardless of circumstance.

(12:11): Yeah. That's better than run towards gunfire. Write that down for me. It's like we try to paint a pretty accurate picture of like, Hey, this place, you're not going to have the support staff you might've had when you were at a different GC or cm in town. Cause we're still building this thing, right? The planes up in the air, it's flying, we're still putting wings on it, trying to do a pretty, pretty good job of not scaring folks away, but giving them an accurate picture of this, isn't going to be the most comfortable place you ever worked. Right? We're going to care for you. We're going to provide a great opportunity, but you're going to work hard. And not only are you going to work for the job we're recruiting you for, but everybody in a startup is responsible for working on the business. And that takes 42. That takes a level of grit and determination. That takes a different type of person.

(12:50): Not everybody wants that. Some people, you know, maybe it's life stage, maybe it's what they want, corporate environments a better fit. And so those two, I feel like we hit the hardest on in that culture screens, Colin and I are BD guy and neither one of us are a construction guy. Majority of time. We're interviewing construction guys and gals and we're asking zero construction questions, right. We're asking, how do you think, how do you work? What are you looking for? Give us an example of, of when you solved problems, give us an example of, you know, creativity in the workplace. Give us an example of when you go to the teammate, well feeding on those core values in their current experience. I know it's such a good point. You bring up Jordan because a lot of individuals, when they're interviewing candidates, they're interviewing for competency, how good are they going to be at this job?

(13:34): We'll worry about character later. We'll worry about how they fit in the culture, but we want to make sure they do the job, right. And I like how you said that. Cause you're not from the construction background. And so you don't come in wanting to talk, you know how smart you are or making sure they you're going for character. You're going for character, culture fit over competency. You assume competency is going to be part of it. So while they're sitting there, you'll have other people in the interview process go after competency, look at their resume. But for you, you're going after the individual and the character. And I see so many companies get that messed up where they go for competency first and assume character, which doesn't work that way. Because if you know, character starts to erode or they aren't a good fit, then it's a mess.

(14:16): And you've who cares if you got someone knows what they're doing, they aren't a good team player. Yeah. And it's really that culture screen is it's a two way interview, right? So it's, it's us asking about them. Cause there's plenty of great candidates out there that are world-class project manager, a world-class project coordinator. World-Class designer that we're not the right fit for them. Right. And they're not the right fit for us. And that's totally fine. And so we are extremely intentional about doing that culture screen on the front end, but then also doing everything we can to give them a glimpse at who we are. So that's a two part interview. We interview them and then we presented them saying, this is who we are. This is what we're about. Ask us questions about what you're seeing here from a culture perspective. And that's more of a dialogue that may be a traditional interview is

(15:01): Yeah. I would say, you know, revenue can't ever think good to great that talk about revenue can never outgrow your ability to bring town to people on the bus. We could make this a lot easier on ourselves, on the front end. You know? Cause we, we, we've never stopped interviewing. And the amount of people we interview before we make a hire is a challenge is like probably more than anybody. And even the steps. I mean, it's a five step process and we don't shortcut it for anybody, but getting the right people on the bus, determines where it goes. And so for us, like we are willing to work a little harder, put in more time, have more people carrying things on broad shoulders while we try and get the right people on the bus and to Jordan's point like make no mistake. And I think this is the fear when you say we honor God and all this is that, oh, it's going to be this like soft culture and it's going to be all this. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Like make the mistake. Like we are going to work hard. So

(15:51): Recruiting, using values, using your vision to recruit now, what does that look like now? They're in. And how are you developing the culture using those values or you're awarding things. Are you calling out employees based on the values? What does that look like on the day to day? So it's not, Hey, we recruit a values. All right, leave those at the door. Now let's just get to work. Forget all those other things, but great companies continue to cast vision. They continue to reinforce the values. And I know you guys are doing that. So what does that look like?

(16:23): Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, we never stopped talking about them. We talk about them in meetings. We ever stayed at the state, start with them. We do a monthly newsletter and then newsletter. We, we recognize and honor and employee in that section where we honor them, we've talked about which core value they represent the most. And we give examples of that. We have a state of the state here tomorrow where we're going to go through every single employee, all 27 and we're going to identify which core value they represent. And we're going to affirm them in front of the rest of the group. And that's like one thing that's important to us. And I think this is more just because my love language is words of affirmation. As we affirm people in front of their peers a lot. And one of the ways we do that is we have to call out their core value that they represent.

(17:03): Yeah. And then on a more practical side, you know, the, so they see the core values and interview process their first day onboarding. We take them through the talent development forum, right? Did they go through twice a year? And if you look at their talent development form or review, basically the first section of that is core values or values are a yes or a no, because you can't be a sometimes culture thing. So you're either going to be a yes and you're aligning with all these core values or you're going to be a note and a core value. So we walk them through that the first day that they're here on the team, they'll go through that twice a year with their manager. So there's some app before ways of, or milestones along the way where they're getting that core value realignment.

(17:42): Thank you very much for listening to today's episode. I hope you're enjoying it so far before we go back to the rest of this episode. I want to share with you my book when at home first, some of you have read it. So thank you very much for others of you. You have not. And I encourage if you're looking for a resource to help you with these times of your work is now in your home and your home is now in your work and what this looks like. This book is being helpful to many leaders like you whores magazine said it was one of seven books. Everyone on your team should read in the book is broken up into four different sections to help you versus about you. Understand who you are. The second is marriage in ideas and tips to help with your marriage. Third is parenting and then last is work. So these four different sections to help you recalibrate during this time and to help move forward. So if you are needing additional resource, I encourage you to check out my book went home first. It is available on Amazon as well as audible and so on to the rest of the episode. Thank you very much.

(18:49): Currently, you guys are more employees than you have ever had. You are operating at a higher revenue than you've ever had. Just the amount of projects. The naysayer out there is going to say, you don't have time to go over all 27 employees and the value that they have, that's soft. Don't you need to be out there hustling and getting the work done, or people got to work more hours because you spent an hour or two hours talking about values. Tell me the importance of why you would push back on that.

(19:17): I would push back on that because that's why we're building a business that we want to build. I mean, there's, there's other ways to make money and you can make, you know, we could shed all this burden and figure out a way to be nimble and then do that. But I think for us, we've always wanted to create a business that employed people that bless their families and their community. And I think to do that, you got to build into the person as well. And like I said, our culture is thick and you walk in and every interview you'll say, it just feels different here. Like, well, tell me a little bit about that. Like what do you mean? Cause this is all we know. And so I think if we didn't do that stuff, we would lose the culture. And I, I think as we think about the work that has to get done and the revenue and yeah, that doesn't go away and there's nowhere to hide from it. But like it'll never Trump, there will never be a time where that revenue trumps us building a culture here that attracts the type of people. We want to work with.

(20:07): One of the components about working here, that I look forward to the most, right? It's like, it's not like, oh, we have to do this core values exercise. And we have to do this state of the state. Or it's like, I think about, and look forward to probably the most, those sort of activities where we get to celebrate folks that exemplify core values that we get to celebrate, you know, how far this place has come and the folks that are here. I mean, that's, to me, one of the best parts about being here. It's like, if you're not going to take a moment to recognize what, what God has done in this place, who he's brought in, how blessed we have been, like, we're crazy, we're running fast, we're charging hard, but like taking those moments to just sit back and say like, this is what's going on here, let's celebrate let's, let's grab a meal together.

(20:51): And just talk about these projects that by the grace of God got built, when we didn't have the team to build them. And we hired the team to build them, you know, sitting back and recognizing God's blessings along the way and both from the projects, but also mainly the people we got to sit back and enjoy those things. And I think that's part of that process. Lot of times when I get clients in and we started working together, one of the first things that I will have them do is capture their wins, start paying attention to the wins. What is going well in your life? Because as all of us are wired, we think about what's left to do, oh, I, you know, on the to-do list, we usually don't think about the good things we checked off. We think about, oh, crud, I didn't get those three or four or five things done. So we're always just looking ahead, never appreciate him. But you mentioned a couple of times that paying attention, what God has done and being grateful. And I know that's just not hearsay. You really mean that. So what are you guys doing to actually, you know, kind of put a stake in the ground to call out what God has done to take notice of it. Yeah.

(21:56): The things we're going to do is we're going to look back and kind of hit those milestones, both just tangibly projects that we took on to Jordan's point that have gone really, really well type of people we brought in, we're going to look back and kind of think through and talk through how these folks made their way in our door, how the projects that we took on kind of landed on our desk and what those look like. And then we're going to look forward. We have some really neat projects coming up, Q3, Q4 that just, you know, I've put us in a great position and, and certainly feel like God has a major interest in this business. And we're going to talk through kind of looking back, understanding that to then look forward and really highlighting the people. You're going to hear say this anonymously over and over again.

(22:34): And we'll never stop saying, it's like, we're going to talk about our people. And we're going to talk about, you know, I can tap dance with the best of them, but the reality is like, that'll get you a project or to start getting repeat business and projects are growing and, and things are happening. It's because of the people that are here and like, I can go through person to person all 27 and tell you about them and how special they are and how incredible they are and how you throw them on a job site. And you put them up against any other project or any other construction company. And like, I like our chances. You take our top 27, we'll throw against any of them. And and I think like we need to recognize that and talk about that. And I do think God's fingerprints are all over that.

(23:11): I mean, I'm putting together that document. You told me to put together where I feel, you know, God's blessed man and contracting and I mean, you saw it. I shared it with you, but it's amazing all about the people that have come in the projects are great and we're so, so fortunate and thankful. And you know, this is not a company without customers. And so we can't ever forget that, but the way people have made their way in our doors and kind of the stories, even Jordan, right. I'm in Jordan and I played football together. Then we worked together at Stryker and then came over here and kinda Jordan started with us and we didn't know where it was going to go. And he didn't do anything that was billable at the time, as I told him, you know, at the time when we're doing small projects and you know, we're, we're doing work that, you know, I need folks that can do the work and Jordan Jordan joined because I think we both have a love for each other and recognize where his talents make up for my inadequacies and hopefully vice versa.

(24:01): Hopefully I help him as well. And so it made sense from that standpoint, but like, it didn't make sense from any other standpoint, you know, but I think that God very purposely put us in each other's lives and now we're able to do this business together and it's not without struggle. And he, and I probably get more arguments than anybody else in this office. But like, there's a reason why we're working together. And I, I firmly believe that most recently I'm putting together that document on Friday. I was just telling you this before we started. And I think it's worth repeating. And one of our project managers was in here working on some contracts. I was like, what are you doing? What are you putting together? And I told him, and we kind of talked about us. I mean, look at some of this stuff. And it's Sunday, I'm walking through church and then I'm like, Hey, what's up, man? I'm here. He's like, I don't. He's like, but after talking to you Friday, I feel like I had to come check it out. You know? And so it's like, those, those things are happening consistently around here where it's pretty, it's pretty.

(24:49): Oh, that's cool. And that, that document is for, I mean, for the audience, but just to reinforce, it was just Nick and I talking about the impact God's had through Manning. And I said, you, you gotta, you gotta put this in a document. So you can remember, you can remember during the good times, so you don't get too prideful that it's all on you. Then on the bad times, you can realize that God's been there and he's not going to abandon or forsaken you. And so as you put it together and you share with me and it was awesome to read through and see it. But even in that document, it's a bit, like you said, it's about the people, how this and this person came here from this company and how all of a sudden we got this employee and just really neat, but it just, as we've talked about the five capitals before in that order of importance.

(25:34): And then when you go to companies, we talk about them using these five PS it's purpose in people and in the pace then perception and then profit and consistently through his whole conversation. You know, other conversations we've obviously had when they aren't recorded, but profit revenue money it's at the bottom. You guys are so focused on purpose and people, purpose and people. I want to shift gears a little bit. Cause you guys talked about your differences, the audiences, they listen, there's going to be a percentage of them. It may be, you know, typically it's about that 30, 40% are going to be the visionaries of hard charging. Like you, Nick. Then the other group is going to be that 60 to 70% that are more the implementers. They are the ones that God who calm things down. And so Jordan kind want to hear from you from the standpoint of, for that listener who works with that high charging individual, how are you doing it?

(26:26): How are you staying stable? How are you kind of keeping that focus? So I would say it starts with a close really close relationship with Nick and I, and I don't think that this would work because we are so different in terms of not our values, but how we go about doing that. If, if I didn't love him, he had loved me. I don't know if it would work, you know, but I know he's, he's my guy and I know his heart for what he wants to build his heart for the people here. And because I know that even though he's maybe going about things differently than I would like, we're we're together, we're aligned. So I think it starts there. The second piece is I'm thankful that he is like the visionary, the charger, the, you know, he wants to get it out there and see if it works.

(27:12): You know, I need that in my life. And so it's nice to be partnered with someone like that. I would say the key in terms of how it's implemented is I can never be undermining anything that he's doing, right. I'm a support to what he's doing to make sure that as he's casting the vision, then that our people have what they need to carry out. That vision. Nothing I do can ever undermine what the vision is. That makes sense. And the picture that comes to my mind, I'm not a bicyclist, but like the pictures that comes to my mind is I think about back in the day, like Lance Armstrong and tour de France, right? You got somebody whose job and that Peloton somebody's job is to set the pace that person's not going to win. But that job, that person's job is to set the pace.

(27:54): And that's really in our business, that's Nick, Nick's out there setting the pace. And then there's the vision that comes to me. He's like the, there's the car that goes behind, right. That support vehicle. And like, I'm the support vehicle, right? Like I've got everything, everybody needs. I got to make sure everybody has what they need. I can't be too far back or else I can't help the people up front. Nick can't lose me. Right. I can't keep everybody in the Peloton supporting him. So it's like, he's in that lead position and I'm in that chase vehicle, just making sure everybody's got water. It makes sure everybody's got a protein bar and I want to stay in that position and help support the team. How do you continue to submit to authority if you will, and be in that support role, it's a fun challenge.

(28:38): You know, people think kind of being out front, casting the vision, all that, like that's the challenger area for me. And like, to me, it's, it's a difficult role to make sure everybody has what they need to keep at the pace that we're setting. So it's a, it's a righteous journey. It's a righteous challenge. I, I, I enjoy that. But at the same time, I think we do have candid conversations. If there is a time where I feel like, you know, the support vehicle is getting left behind and we're starting to lose a couple of riders, like I think we do have good conversations about that. And Nick's willing to listen when that starts to occur. You know, rarely does that happen. Usually we're pushing close to red line all the time. And I think we need to at the stage of the business, but the times where we've had to pull back a little bit, or maybe it's a project that's coming and we're like, Hey, is this the right project for us to pursue right now? We've had good, transparent conversations about that. And at the end of the day, it comes back to what we've said before. And it's like, okay, do we have the right people on the team? Can our people handle this project? Is this good or bad for them as we go forward? Not just from a perspective. And that's usually the conversation we ended up having, is this going to be better for our people or worse for our people? And that's how we have that conversation and pull back when we need to,

(29:50): We have a very strong culture of like cutting through the BS. And so we all speak in very plain English. And so then we don't get offended. Right. So there's a reality that Jordan will straight up say. I mean, you know, I think he's sugarcoating it a little bit where he'll just say like, Hey, no, we can't like, or like, he'll say very intense words to get my attention on. Like, this is what we're doing. And so Jordan is, there's a sweetheart. He's a great dude. He's, he's, he's an incredible leader in our business. He's doing all the things behind the scenes to make sure that we can operate. Like, he's also like a chest out, like getting your face leader if he has to be. And he does it with me quite often because I respect him. I love them. I know he's thinking about it the right way.

(30:30): Like I listened to him, I submit to him. I mean, he submits to me, but I submit to him a lot and Susie and Steve and you know, and Brad and like, I mean, I do just because we have to be able to do that. And, and for us, we never want to get so far removed from the front line that we don't recognize kind of what needs to happen for us to continue to win block and tackle, make the plays that have to be made at the right time. And so, you know, we're, we can talk visionary and integrator and those are a hundred percent sure on how the roles we play, but we're also never going to put ourselves in a position where I'm so removed or Jordan so removed that we can't just speak to each other and planning English about what needs to happen, because we have big, big plans, big, big dreams.

(31:09): And like, we're not going to shortcut any area of the business to get there. And part of that means like there's going to be some truth that needs to be told from Jordan and from others that like, I better be able to listen to it. And if I can't, then I need to get out of the seat and let somebody else lead the business because it's just, that's a, that's a recipe for disaster. I have a two night rule. Okay. And so what that role looks like is if you spend one night laying in bed, kicking the sheets off, staring at the ceiling, like contemplating, what's going on in your life as you've joined man and contracting and it's growing and you're being asked to do more than you've ever been asked to do. Like, I don't care and don't tell me, I just don't care. But like two nights in a row, like that means you're S you're exhausted the second night, the next day didn't do anything to calm those fears. Like, well, well, those fears, then it's like, come talk to me, come sit down and come look me in the eyes and tell me like, where you need help and I'll drop everything and help

(31:58): You love does here. What are you doing from a mindset perspective, a solid two perspective to help you stay in the game and not just come a stressed out headcase. I don't know if I'm doing a great job at it. At times. One of the benefits I have is my wife is my business partner. And actually my wife owns a business. So I've kind of brought home into the business a little bit. And so that helps, obviously she understands what's going on. So if I do have times when I'm working late or things are going on sheets, she's seen it firsthand and understands why I have to do it. And then I think from there, it's like, I do do my quiet time. There's, there's a, there's an inordinate amount of time. I spend coaching my kids and spending time with my kids. And then on Saturdays, call it daddy, daughter workdays. A lot of times I'll go check out job sites. And Lucy comes with me, you know, just I coach wrestling and football. And like, so I spend time with the boys that way I'm figuring out how to coach ballet or mastics yet.

(32:52): So, so for me, it's been a time like that, but I mean, it's a struggle. It's a nonstop struggle. We have our fifth baby here doing about a week. And so I think just by way of how many kids we have and what we got going on, there's other, there's just a, there's always going to be a time component. That's ticking in the background. And I think it's just being very intentional when we, when we're around. And I mean, it is a family business. And so one of the things we don't shy away from here, I was asked recently in a, an interview, like, how do you like, tell me how you sell, you know, work-life balance. And I sat and thought about it. And I was like, I don't think we sell that. I don't think we, we, we sit down and talk about work-life balance.

(33:27): I think it's just part of the deal. And I heard it on your podcast from, I guess, Kirk Perry talking about like the tie goes to the family and I've started parenting that a bit. And, you know, I think for us, it's like, we don't sell it because it's important and there's nothing that will ever Trump your family. And it's a rocket ride that we're on and we're going to blink and it's going to be over. And so it's like, you try to keep the important things important. And this business is very important to me, probably unbalanced. So just in regards to how much I care about it and how much I want us to win and how much I want to deliver for my employees. I mean, the biggest burden I carry every night is making sure that I deliver for my employees. I never think of them working for me.

(34:05): I, I work everyday for them. And so I think like that's the burden I carry and the obsession that I have, but nothing trumps my family and the kids know that. And, and, and I'll steal a day and take them to King's island. I'll, I'll do things with them to make sure that they understand that, but also daddy has to go to work and there's a job I have to do. And I think like, as men, we're programmed to work, and I don't know if that's controversial to say, but I'm here because I remember this own business. I can't find me anyways. But like, like I do think like men are, are supposed to work and I think it's okay for my kids to see me get up and go to work. Hi, it's great for kids to see us work. Right?

(34:41): Yeah. So spiritual component of that, like, I think I'm best in our job, in my job when I'm most dependent upon God. And so things that help me be aware of my dependence upon him are generally best for me. Right. So, you know, spend time in the morning before I get started on things is important because once the day starts, it's not going to happen, but anytime I'm reminded of how much I need him to really do anything I'm the best, I'm the best version of me, right? And to me, part of the process coming here was desiring really an integration in all components of my life. So an integration from not having a spiritual life and work life, not having a family life and work life, but like integration of all things. And so I always wanted more sitting around the dinner table talking about the best parts of our day.

(35:33): And I tell a story about Mr. Larry, who does pre-construction for us? Well, all my boys know who Mr. Larry is, right? Cause they saw him on Thursday when they were playing Dodge ball here at the office. And my wife Maggie knows who Mr. Larry is right. Someday Shane, one of our project managers, his daughter name is Ayla. Like someday. I hope I'm invited to ALA's wedding. Not because we're Shane's friend, but because ALA knows me the ability to have that sort of environment, you know, something that I deeply desired and wanted to be a part of. And to me, it makes it less about the balance of everything and more of being able to live authentically. And I think who God's made me and charge me to be an executing that kind of all assignments simultaneously and less executing this silo, then executing the family silo, executing the spiritual silo.

(36:20): Does that make sense? Oh yeah. The integrated life's a lot easier, more efficient to do. And having that open communication with the family and the kids about what work is and pulling them in, you know, that's great. You have a young family and I've asked Nick before on the first podcast, but what's a key trait for you to win at work and went home to me, it's community. You know, it's not an internal trait, but I can be blind to things that I don't see on a daily basis. And so it's folks that are in my life that have an intimate view of, of me personally, and me as a businessman and a family man, that thing can speak into things. You know, I don't audibly hear from God a ton, but I do hear from God through others. And so I need to be attached to other people in an intimate way so they can speak into my life, whether that be for good or for bad, or to remind me of God's blessing or to call me out when I need to course correct. I've been intimately touched by close friendships throughout my life and, and know that I always need them

(37:21): Talk more about intimately touched, like influence. That's all it guys. This was fantastic. And who knows, maybe there'll be a part three down, down the road, but thank you both for just sharing what is working at Manning and being just transparent, which is obviously one of your guys's key traits in the business, but being transparent with kind of the good, the bad ugly of what's happening. So anything else you'd like to say in closing?

(37:53): Well, I think what you just said though, like I shied away from like when I come on these things, my, my biggest fear is that like, it it's left with us thinking we have all the answers or things are perfect and we're a freaking mess. And like, I'm a personal mess. I'm a professional, like we're doing our best. And we're going to try to get better every single day. And like, no, one's going to work harder to do that. And I firmly believe that, but like making the mistake, like we had a lot of growing to do personally, professionally, how we operate. Like we, we have things that we have to get better on constantly and we're nowhere near where we need to be. And so I just leave the podcast, just making sure everyone knows we're not sitting here saying we have all the answers we're doing what we thinks about Dustin. We're very fortunate. We've been blessed. We firmly believe that. But like, we got a lot of work to do.

(38:36): I just echo that because I mean, I'm very grateful that you're a client of mine, but that's how you show up to the, our time together. It's kinda like I need help. I'm trying to figure these things out. It's I love leaders out there who are hungry to grow, but yet humble to learn from others. And so I think my hope, and I'm very confident that people will hear that through this font, gases guys don't act like all your crap. It's like, Hey, we're trying to figure this out. Let's go. But we're having fun along the way. Absolutely. Well, thank you guys very much for being on the podcast.

(39:11): I want to thank you for listening to my podcast. When at home first, I am so grateful to hear from listeners like you, that this content has been helpful. So now I would love for you to pay it forward. I want to get this message in the hands of more listeners. We need leaders to be winning both at home and at work, especially during this time. So please take a minute to share this episode with somebody you think would find value in it, as well as rate and subscribe as a thank you, please visit my website@coriumcarlson.com to download a free resource that people are finding value in. Thank you very much.

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