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In this episode, you’ll discover…

  • How self-awareness improves your relationship with others at work and at home (3:25)
  • An extremely difficult question that can dramatically improve your interactions with others (5:18)
  • How to pull off a date night with your spouse even when you’re short on time and money (20:30)
  • A simple but game-changing way to organize all your priorities so your entire family achieves their goals (17:39)
  • The surprising way dating can help you avoid divorce (26:01)
  • How to optimize your energy levels for maximum productivity (34:25)

Are you crushing it at work but struggling at home? If you want to learn how to win at home, then go to https://CoryMCarlson.com and download your free copy of “10 Ways To Win At Home.”

Read Full Transcript

Welcome to the win at home first podcast. I'm your host, Corey Carlson. This podcast is where we talk about how successful business leaders win, not only at work, but also at home. On this podcast, we will go behind the scenes with great leaders to hear stories of how they win. Thank you for listening and on to today's episode.

Hello, this is Corey. You're going to enjoy this next episode with Julie Linkler. She's a relationship therapist and had her on the show during this time where a lot of relationships brokenness getting exposed was perfect timing. I'm already excited to do a part two. In this episode, we talk about how to shift from being roommates at times, like all of us can get in relationships to actually be dating. Again. We talk about the importance of self awareness and empathy. We talk about being interesting to date as well as to be interested in your spouse.

(01:01): We talk about the idea of knocking on the door and what that could mean and daily check-ins. I mean, the list goes on and what we talk about. It's awesome. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did onto today's episode. Thank you. Hello, this is Corey Carlson. You're listening to the win at home first podcast today is Julie Linkler and she is a therapist and couples coach. And I'm so excited to have you on the show today, Julie, because there's not a better time to talk about this. And right now I know with friends and clients, just the quarantine, the lockdown, it is expose some brokenness in relationships. And so for you, your expertise, you've been doing this for 15 years. You understand what's going on. You're a local professional, and from being on the radio and having your own coaching practice, I thought it'd be great to talk with you to see how we can help our clients, our audience, to win a home first and help with their marriages. So thank you very much for being on the show today.

(02:04): Thanks for having me. I'm really happy to be here. I'm looking forward to talking to you about this.

(02:09): Awesome. Well, I guess we can just dive right in is what are you seeing right now? That is a key trait that leaders need to have to win a home first.

(02:21): I think that it's actually two and they sort of go hand in hand. And the first one is a level of self awareness. I think it's really important for people to know what it's like to be on the receiving end of them. How do you come across? What's it like to be someone in a conversation or in a relationship with you? And the second one is empathy and, and it's really hard to have empathy if you don't have self-awareness because empathy is the ability to feel what somebody else is feeling and to take their perspective on something. And it's really hard to do that if you don't know what you yourself are feeling or what your perspective is. And so you, you have the ability. If you have this level of self awareness to really empathize with somebody else to think and feel the world the way they seem to be thinking and feeling it, to validate those feelings, to listen and to empathize with it. And when people feel understood and seen and known, it creates a huge sea change in a relationship in terms of how well they connect, how well they communicate and how flexible and fluid they're able to be in, in the face of challenges and difficulties. So my two would be empathy and self-awareness,

(03:38): Oh, those are great. And I too love to help people grow in those areas, but sometimes it takes spending time with them or assessments or helping them grow. What would you say to listeners? What's a good way to grow in self-awareness?

(03:54): Well, there are a couple of things. I use a tool with my clients called the Enneagram. It's spelled E N N E G R a M. I use that with a lot practically all of my clients, I wouldn't say all. And I think that's a wonderful tool for growth and self-awareness, and we could talk more about that, but that doesn't actually answer your question. I just think it's a wonderful tool. And what it does is it shows you how you are, how you show up in the world, but also why you show up that way. And then you can say to the people in your life, Hey, what's it like when I walk in the door and I behave this way, what's it feel like to you when I come home and I unload all of my day on you, is that okay? Are you all right with that?

(04:38): What's it like, you can actually ask those questions and get some information from people. And if you're aware and empathic, you can often see from their own responses in their own reactions, what it's like to be on the receiving end of view. But that actually is a question I often have my clients ask their significant others. If I'm only seeing one of them or we will do it in session. If I'm seeing both of them, is what's it like to be on the receiving end of me? Like, what's it like to be in a relationship with me? I want to see myself from your eyes. Can you please tell me it can be incredibly powerful? It takes a lot of vulnerability to do that. And it takes a lot of willingness to be open and transparent. It can be incredibly powerful.

(05:21): I love that question. What is it like? I'm a big fan of Enneagram. Also have my clients use it. And for Holly, my wife, we had breakthrough in our marriage after taking the Enneagram Enneagram three wing two, which means the high achiever get things done. And if I'm not careful, then I can blow over people. And for the results over relationships. Yes. Well then Holly is an Instagram six, which means loyal would, she's proven that to be throughout our whole marriage. But what the were, the big breakthrough for me was, is she would ask a lot of questions anytime I wanted, you know, kind of do something or maybe discrete, you know, career transition from corporate to coaching or just whatever it could be. Even if it's just a trip, it's all these questions. And for a long time, I took that personal, like,

(06:15): Yes, you saw that as criticism or questioning your ability. Yeah.

(06:19): Wisdom. I do enough research and I used to always take it personal until the Indian grandma's realizing no, it's not questioned anything about me. It's all about her preparation for the journey ahead. How far left is she going to have to go out far? Right? Is she going to have to go? That was awesome for me. And so I am a big fan of Instagram because of those reasons I'm familiar with Myers-Briggs I'm dis certified, but man, they do not do for me what the Enneagram does for clients. So

(06:48): I agree. They don't have the depth. I don't believe they have the depth at any Agram house and they don't have the, the interpersonal usefulness that any Graham does. I've used Myers-Briggs with clients. I don't find it to be as robust a tool. I really find any Graham covers all the basis for me, with my clients. And I love it. And I'm an eight with an equal seven and nine wing challenger, the rule breaker, the one who just blows through boundaries and says, let's get it done.

(07:20): Yeah. Well, yeah, you like to be direct and I need to be direct with my questions and our conversation today. Right.

(07:28): Even if you're not, I'll be direct with my answers.

(07:30): That's right. And there you go. Good. That question. What is it like and is something I'm going to look to incorporate in my, in my own life, because I know I bring a different energy and sometimes I'm even told to dial it down, so,

(07:45): Oh yeah. And, and, and any grand threes in any gram eights have huge energy. We have some of the biggest energy on the Enneagram and I am often told, Hey, Hey, back it off a little bit. Like it's like drinking from a fire hose. You're intense. You're really intense. And it's true. I am,

(08:02): What is a way our listeners can grow an empathy? How can I even get better him? But they had something I know I need to be better about as well.

(08:10): Well, first of all, the queen of empathy right now, and vulnerability is a woman named Bernay Brown. Are you familiar with Bernay Brown?

(08:18): Absolutely. And I've watched some of her things for her and learned a lot.

(08:21): She's the queen of empathy. So any of her books or podcasts or talks that you watch are going to help anybody get better at empathy. Empathy really is recognizing that the other person's perspective of something is just as valid as yours no more, no less. And listening to them and reflecting back until you completely understand their take on it. And I tell my clients often we use understanding and agreement interchangeably, but they're very different words. You can understand somebody and completely with them and you can agree with somebody and not understand what you're agreeing with. So when you listen for understanding, when you listen until the other person feels completely understood and you ask clarifying questions and you reflect back what you're hearing and you say, did I get that? Am I right? Am I on track? Show me where I'm wrong. Help me understand when you say those things, then you have an open dialogue with somebody and you're able to really understand their perspective.

(09:23): And when you can call up in yourself, some similar kind of situation or some similar kind of feeling, then you can feel what they're feeling about that situation. And now you've built a connection. Now you've increased your empathy quotient. You've built a bridge between you and whomever that you can start to walk across and to create even greater connection. And so I'm a big fan of reading and listening to Bernay Brown. I think she's just a goddess and I am a huge fan of asking lots of questions and really validating the other person's experience as being true for them. Even if it's not the way you see the world.

(10:00): That's so good, especially now for all leaders. I mean, empathy is always been good, but right now, the working from home, if you are a leader, who's an empty nester. How do you have empathy for your employee that has infants running around? Or if you are divorced first married or just all these different dynamics that happen now in this working from home environment, empathy's will go such a long.

(10:27): It's huge. And I heard a quote that I just love. We are all in the same storm right now, but we're in very different boats.

(10:33): Oh, I love that as well. I've not heard that.

(10:36): And so we are, and this is the first time in, in the history of the modern world. That, and I'm just going to speak from my profession that we therapists have been in the exact same situation as our clients are in. All of our clients are in COVID. All of our therapists are in coven. We're all in the exact same situation. Usually we are not going through what our clients are going through when they're going through it, or certainly not every one of our clients. And so we're all in the same storm. You're in the same storm. I'm in my neighbors in the same storm. Everybody's in the same storm. We have different boats. Some of us live alone and don't have children and working from home is a piece of cake. Other people have multiple school aged children. They all have devices, their internet isn't set up to manage it. They're trying to homeschool. They're trying to work. They are living at home with each other in ways that they've never had to before. I mean, it's a completely different world and everybody is struggling in different ways, but everybody is struggling. And I think that that is really important to remember. We're all struggling. It's hard for all of us differently though, but it's hard for all of us.

(11:43): Have you noticed your business increasing during this time?

(11:49): Yes. In quantity, but also yes. In of crisis. So more people, but also more people in really serious difficulty than they might have been before. So it's not only more frequent sessions, but it's also more intense sessions. People are coming because the wheels have really fallen off their cart in their marriages and in their relationships and in their home life. And they don't know what to do about it. Whereas before they could very often minimize or distract themselves from it, by the things that we were doing in our lives, you know, you go to work, you're not with each other eight hours or 10 hours a day. Your kids go to school. You're not with them. Seven, eight hours a day. Activities, the gym shopping, we can trips. All of these things serve as enrichments to lives, but they also serve as distractions from problems. And when none of that was available, all of the problems became very clear and very concentrated because everybody's in one super small space living together and everything became magnified and amplified. So yes, more people, but also more crises.

(13:01): Yeah, absolutely. Our schedules being less busy, exposed really all the brokenness in ourselves, as well as in our marriages,

(13:08): The fault lines and the cracks. And not only expose them Corey, but amplified them, magnified them, made them, made them wider and bigger. The divide became wider and, and the problems became greater. So not just, they were always there and we weren't paying attention to them. This actually magnified and amplified them pretty significantly for many of my clients.

(13:28): Yeah. Well, and obviously we can't go into client confidentiality either on your side or my side, but w what are you seeing to be more, the common friction points that people are coming to you, and that you probably believe that there's people experiencing this right now, who are listening, who may not actually call you for help call anybody for help. They're just going to ride the wave. And hopefully this is over soon enough when we can get back to work and that time will solve the problem. As we all know that that's not the case.

(14:00): No time is a factor, but by itself, it doesn't resolve anything. I think a big one that has become very clear is people, let me think how I want to say this. Many of my clients ran their marriages and their parenting and their home lives sort of on a wing and a prayer. Like it sort of made sense to do it this way, but they never really talked about it. And, you know, she would raise the kids this way. He would make the money that way, or often vice versa. He would raise the kids this way and she would make the money that way. They never really talked about it. It just kind of worked now that they're all in one place, kids, parents, everybody, all in one place, much more often, they're having to have conversations about things that they really probably should have had conversations much earlier on in their relationship, but didn't, and now they're coming at it with years of resentment and bitterness and misunderstanding built up. And so it's not just the conversation itself. That's the problem. It's cracking through all of the crud to get to the actual conversation point that is problematic. And they're recognizing they have all of these layers of bitterness and resentment built up that we have to crack through before we can actually get to the issue itself.

(15:18): Wow. So Brian takes you like five sessions just to get to the truth.

(15:21): Sometimes can it sometimes can, it can sometimes take five sessions to get people, to be able to talk to each other in a civilized tone. I was talking to a couple, few weeks ago and I just stopped them. And I said, look, time out, time out, time out the nights. And they looked at me and I said, no, seriously, just be nice right now. Just be nice. Let's have five minutes of nice before we dive back in this. Cause this is really, this is toxic. Just be nice.

(15:48): Yeah. You can't say be adults anymore. Cause not adults are nice anymore. You just have to get straight to the word.

(15:54): Don't be nice. Yeah.

(15:57): Yeah. Well, that's a, it's really, really helpful. I L I love hearing the idea where treating your family like a business and that's not to get all boring and over the top, but at business, we strategize, we'll have vision statements. We will list out our values. We will have, you know, recurring meetings. You know, we're gonna have this meeting every morning at 10:00 AM or whatever that structure is. But when it comes to family, that just like you said, it's a, it's a wing and a prayer, but if families can come together, wait, what is the vision for the family? What is the values? I talk about that and how we created one after a coach and mentor. But talk about that in the book, went home first and how to actually structure one. But it's also just having like family dinners and going on dates and having some structure. I just love the idea that, you know, systems and structure create clarity, which builds confidence, which will lead to the better results.

(16:56): Absolutely. It will. One of the pieces of homework. I often give clients who have multiple priorities in their lives, careers and kids and family obligations and such. And it is a, it's a game changer and a mindblower for them. And it's the simplest thing in the history of ever. I say on Sunday night, sit down with your favorite beverage and plan out your week, take a look at what you have to do. Take a look at what you want to do. Where do your kids need to be? What projects do you want to do? What social engagements do you have, grab your calendars, take half an hour, 45 minutes and plan your week and figure out who's in charge of all of that assigned responsibilities. If you've got older kids, get them involved. If you've got younger kids, just the two of you sit down and do that. And it's a game changer for people. And it blows their minds. That something as simple as sitting down with calendars and planning out their week like they do at work would have such a huge impact on how little friction there is in their family now, because everybody knows what the expectations are. And of course things are going to come up. And of course, you're going to have to pivot, but you have a plan you're pivoting from instead of living in constant chaos and spinning. And for them, it's huge.

(18:06): Yeah. Communication actually works. Huh?

(18:08): Communication actually works. Go figure.

(18:11): Yeah. Oh, that's good. Hello. This is Corey Carlson. Thank you very much for listening to this podcast. I greatly appreciate it. If things that we're saying or you're hearing what the guests are talking about, and you want to see how it can apply to your life, and you want to dive deeper into the content. And I invite you to visit my website at Corey M Carlson, to learn more about my coaching program, what I'm doing for clients like you and how it can help you start winning boat at home and at work and living in life to the full. So thank you very much for listening and back to today's episode. Thank you. What is some other low hanging fruit that some couples can Elise try to recalibrate to get going in the right direction? I so often jump to dates. Like I just go on a date cause I'll be talking with business leaders and his winners. The last time you went on a date with your spouse

(19:10): Let me think. And oftentimes the dates are business obligations that are also social or getting together with groups of friends, where the guys hang out in one part and the girls hang out in the other part, but that's their night out. I love date nights where it's just the two of you are date mornings. And we say date nights. But I know a lot of people who do really well getting up and once they get the kids off to school, they go to Starbucks and have coffee together. So it can be a date morning. We don't even have to go out of the house, particularly in COVID world. But I had a couple, I worked with a long, long, long time ago, but didn't have money for a sitter and didn't have a sitter available. So they put their kids to bed early and they'd order in pizza and they pop a bottle of wine and they'd have pizza and wine and they'd watch one of their favorite shows.

(19:53): And then they'd go to bed. That was their date night. It was great, but it was every Wednesday without fail. That was their Wednesday. So I think dates are a wonderful thing. I think doing daily check-ins and taking 15 or 20 minutes at the beginning and at the end of your day, just to say, Hey, how you doing? How are you with us? How are you with your family? Is there anything going on for you that I need to know about? And here's what's going on for me that you need to know about. Sometimes it's going to be very surface level. Sometimes it's not. But what is really hard is if you have these long periods of silence where you're not really talking, but you have an issue you want to bring up, it's really hard to find the right time to do that. It's easier.

(20:35): If you know that every day, you're going to have 10 to 20 minutes where your spouse is going to ask you, your partner is going to ask you, so, Hey, how are you? What's going on? How are things? How are we? And so the door is already open. It's always easier to walk through an already open door than it is to have to bust one down. And so if you know, you're going to have that every day, then not only does it minimize the challenges that you're going to face, cause you're going to deal with them earlier on, but it's so much easier to walk through that door. If the person you love the most says, Hey, you look out of sorts. You've been out of sorts all day, are you okay? What's going on? And you can say, actually, no thank you for asking.

(21:13): I'm really not. I'm not fine. Things are not great. Can we talk? So that's, I think one other tip my third one and I may have more, but my third favorite one is knock on the door, conversationally speaking. If you have something you want to bring up to your partner, that's important or significant, or you think might be a challenging conversation or even something you really want their attention with may not be bad, but you really want them to pay attention. Knock on the door, say, Hey, look, there's something I want to talk to you about is now a good time. Would another time be better? How are you feeling? Can we have a conversation now instead of just sort of launching into it and expecting you're going to have their attention. And the analogy I give to my clients is if you've ever worked in an office environment, you do not go barging into somebody's office, sit down in the chair, across from their desk and say, okay, now I got to tell you this and just start to unload you at least knock on the door and say, Hey, you got a minute.

(22:11): There's something I want to talk to you about. And the person will say absolutely, or no, I'm in the middle of something. Can you give me 15? But we don't do that with our, with our significant others. We don't do that with our partners. We come home and we just launch in, or we're sitting there at dinner, even worse, we're watching TV or we're reading a book. And all of a sudden here comes this conversation at us that we weren't expecting and weren't prepared for. So I tell them, knock on the door, say, Hey, can you talk? There's something I want to bring to your attention. I got something I want your help with or whatever it is. That's respectful.

(22:44): That's good. And I love the example of that coworker coming in, barging down and talking, cause we've all experienced. It. We've all been annoyed by it. And I think as I think even in our own relationship, Holly and I, but even just for other people, sometimes you end up doing that barging because you don't, you have not created enough of those check-in points. As you mentioned that you have to barge in because it's like, I don't know the next time I'm going to talk to her or him. And therefore I got to do it right now because I may not seem for hours or for days or whatever. And so you're right. A lot of us have not done. We've done the barging in because we have no other checkpoints. So I think that's fantastic.

(23:24): And if you have the check-ins, then you don't need to do that nearly as often. And even if this is the one time you're going to see them in the week, you can say, Hey, look, there's something I want to talk to you about is now a good time or would it be better after dinner? You don't have to just launch into it.

(23:40): [Inaudible] I know Holly and I can become roommates at times where we've just been busy or maybe haven't been as quick to forgive on a certain topic here and there and we'll just become roommates. And I know I even heard maybe prospects as I am talking to them, like, what are some of the issues at work or some issues at home. They may not use the word roommates, but it's definitely like, almost like we're just kind of living together. How have you encouraged your clients or even just your friends to recalibrate from going to roommates, going back into progress. And some of it's what you mentioned, but just that roommates that kind of push them over the edge to get back into the right process of dating.

(24:22): Well, actually I talked to them about dating because I say one of the things that kills marriages and kills long term relationships, if it's not a marriage, is this sense of being roommates. And we all want to feel seen and valued and loved, and we all want to feel attractive and sexy and fun and sparkly and hot. And so when you're in a relationship where you don't feel that way ever, or often enough, it is easy to look elsewhere to get that validation. And so I say, if you were to split and you were to start dating, you would have to do these things. You would have to dress nicely. You would have to think of interesting conversational topics. You would have to bring your best. Sparkliest most engaging self. You would have to show up and show interest in the other person you'd have to flirt.

(25:16): You'd have to be playful. You'd have to do all those things. If you were dating somebody else, why not get into that mindset and do those things with the person you're married to or in a relationship with pretend like you're dating them. Actually don't just go out on date nights, actually go out on a date, like get yourself ready as if this is somebody you want to meet and you want to impress and show up and be energetic and engaging and impressive and listen and pay attention and give energy and attention in an intentional way to the person you're with so that you don't end up divorced and dating. If that's not what you want to be doing. And just that mindset shift very often is all people need to show up differently in their relationship to treat their spouse like someone they want to date, not like the person they're living with and changing diapers with and you know, all those things that get in the way of looking sexy and being

(26:16): Yeah. And fantastic tips. Those are awesome. The one that's really standing out to me today of all of those that you mentioned, and I think it's just because it's a election year it's COVID school is making sure you're bringing up interesting conversation topics as if you're going on a first, second date, as opposed to purely complaints negativity about this political party or is the COVID situation, or I can't believe schools doing this. I think if we're not careful, couples can turn into just kind of complaining about the newsy environment, the what's going on, but you would not do that on a first or second date that is not worth going on a second or third. Yeah.

(27:01): It would not be at all. No. And, and so if you can take a look at your world and make yourself interesting, I think we have an obligation in long term relationships to be interesting for our partners and to be interested in our partners. And I think if you can try to be interesting for an interesting in each other, that makes a huge difference in going from feeling like roommates, to feeling like you want to get home to this person and talk to them. Cause they're your favorite person to have a conversation with.

(27:36): It's fantastic. That's really, really good. Well, thanks for sharing that for sure. So how did you get into this and do this helping other people and into your coaching and therapy?

(27:49): This is my third career. My first career, I ran a retail store right out of college for a couple of years. In my second career, I was a fundraiser and volunteer manager for a bunch of nonprofits. And the last nonprofit I worked for went out of business for no bad reasons. We were just no longer necessary. The thing we were doing was no longer needed. And I knew that I was going to have three months where I was winding that down and I was looking for other fundraising jobs. And I said, I just don't want to do it anymore. Like I I'm done, I've done it. I liked it. It was great. But now I'm done. I want to do something else. So I looked at my then husband in the middle of the night, I poked him and woke him up and said, I want to go back to school and be a therapist.

(28:28): And he said, okay, can we start tomorrow? And I said, yeah, we can start tomorrow. And so when my boys were five and eight, I started grad school, got my master's of social work at UC. And right out of grad school went to work for this amazing organization here in Cincinnati called cancer family care. They counsel cancer patients and their families. It's not hospice, not everybody is dying. All you need is a cancer diagnosis, but I spent almost three years working with cancer patients and their families, helping them navigate this life threatening illness. And what I found I really liked to do was the couple part of that. Reconnecting people, helping people reconnect with each other through this life, threatening illness and work together through it. And then when I left cancer family care to start my own practice, I didn't think I do only relationship stuff. I thought I'd do that. And sort of your more traditional depression, anxiety, that kind of thing. And what I found was people kept coming to me for couples. People kept coming to me for relationship stuff, and it's what I really love to do. So over the first couple of years of my private practice, I just got more and more and more relationship clients. And that's what I've been doing almost exclusively for the last 12 of the last 15 years. Yeah.

(29:42): I love it. Wow. That's just fascinating. And maybe that's the answer to this next question, but part of my story then as I just talk with other clients is have you had that moment where God said you need to hand over your story for a greater story? Was that something that you were experienced in Julie and your life? Is that the story or is there another time where it's like, I need to hand over my small story for something bigger and greater.

(30:05): So when I was running a retail store, that was a job when I was fundraising, that was a job. I was good at it. And I believed in the organizations I was fundraising for, but that was a job. This is what I meant to do. This is where I'm meant to be therapy for me is as easy as breathing. Now, sometimes you work hard and you breathe really hard. Like sometimes you're working out and you're gasping for air or you're climbing at altitude in Colorado and you're gasping for air, but it's still as natural and easy as breathing. And so this is where I belong. This is what I'm meant to be doing. And for therapists more than for coaches, because there are slightly different rules around each of those two professions. We are not really supposed to be putting a whole lot of ourselves and our own story into the room with our clients or into the session with our clients.

(30:55): And so one of the things that I've had to learn to do is leave whatever's going on in my personal life, whether that's great or horrible out of the room and sit with my clients and be with them in whatever they're doing. And so I T to your point, I put aside my story and I sit with my clients in whatever they're doing. And I use my wisdom and my experiences and my learnings to help them. But it's not about me. It's not about me at all. It's about them and whatever. They're bringing into my room and whatever we're working on at that moment in time. And so from that perspective, it's very self abnegating, like I'm over here and I'll deal with my stuff later. I compartmentalize that and I sit with my clients and then I go back to my stuff and I deal with that in my own life. And then I come back to my clients again. And so I think that that may be what you're asking. Did that answer your

(31:51): Yeah, it's absolutely helpful. No, it's good. And even some of the further explanation you gave is great, but even the, the, as you explained earlier, when you became a therapist and a decision to go to school, waking up in the middle of the night, there was something there you were leaving the comfort of Oregon for the nonprofit to go back to school, almost reset. And, and so there's part of that, even in that story of yeah, a lot of people I talk with, I actually was with someone the other day said, I can't believe you left corporate to go do coaching. Like I, like, I think I want to leave to do some different things, but I just don't have the guts. And it was a process. It was not an overnight idea for sure. But for you to say, I'm leaving the comfortable for the uncomfortable, for the, I know, I believe there I'm being called into that.

(32:43): I did feel that that was absolutely where I belonged. It was, it was a, it was a blinding moment of clarity that that was where I belonged now, how that was going to look, I wasn't sure. And how long it was going to take or what format it was going to go in. I didn't know, but I really believe that this was where I belonged and what I needed to be doing. And it turns out I was right, because I love it. I still love what I do.

(33:05): Yeah. And I like your whole, like, my job is like breathing, but it can be hard at times.

(33:10): Yeah. Sometimes what I do is incredibly hard and yet it still is as natural as breathing

(33:16): [Inaudible] quarantine has changed a for a lot of different people. You are both a business owner, as well as just your, your own self. How have you changed to the quarantine that you want to keep as you come back? I know we all want to get back to the new normal, whatever it's going to be. There's some things I don't want to change now. What is it for you that you were excited? That's now happened in your life that you want to keep? Whether it's a new rhythm, it's a new habit, it's a new mindset. What has it been for you?

(33:44): For me, it has been sort of a pulling back in and a reprioritizing of time and energy and money. And so, you know, there are finite amounts of all of those. And one of the things I've realized now that I have a lot more time is that it's less about time management for me and more about energy management. And I'm coming to really understand that when, when I do my best work, when I am less focused and what kinds of things keep my energy at optimal levels for me? So personally I have been, I was always pretty good about working out, but I have been very, very diligent about working out because I need that for my energy. I also need that for my own mental wellbeing. So that's something that I intend to keep, I'm fixing more meals at home, as we all are cooking for one, after cooking for a family with often friends over was a real shift for me.

(34:43): And so I've sort of had to figure out how to cook, you know, meals for one person most of the time, but that's been great. My business has changed. I used to have an office in blue Ash. I do actually still have an office in blue Ash, but I'm going to let the lease expire at the end of December. And I'm not going to go back into the office for awhile because it just feels, it doesn't feel as safe to me to do that as doing teletherapy does. And my clients have adapted so well to this, that I'm seeing them all from my son room where I am right now. This is now my new office. It's a great office. I love it. Thank you. So I'm seeing all my clients on video from my sunroom and I'm having to sort of rethink some of my business practices as a result of that.

(35:23): And I've had to change the way I work with clients because this is very different than sitting in a room with people. And so I've had to sort of change how I, how I work with people and how I gather information and how I get a sense of what's going on with them, actually having to ask the questions. So that's been kind of a regrouping. And then I really think just focusing back in on family and friends and quality time with the people that I love the most, as opposed to sort of being so scattered out into the world and going here and doing this and just sort of more, a more circumscribed circle of activity and interest for a while, I think. And, and I want to keep that I don't want to lose. There's a whole world out there and I want to see it. I don't want that to go away, but I've really sort of concentrated my efforts and energies as most of us have on the people who mean the most to us, because you never know when that could go away.

(36:19): Yeah. I love that. I too was one going all the time. And so it has slowed me down. So I'm grateful for that. This has been fantastic. I we're going to have to do a part two, some point because I want to keep going.

(36:31): I'd love to, I can dive deeper into any of this. I'd love to. That'd be great. Yeah,

(36:35): It was awesome. How can listeners get ahold of you if, if they need help in their relationships, what's the best way to get ahold of you or just get some more of your wisdom?

(36:44): Easiest way to get ahold of me is Julie linkler.com. J U L I E L I N G L E r.com. I have a blog I write actually I need to do some more writing. I haven't updated it for a while, but I've got some good info on my blog. You can actually schedule a 15 minute Q and a phone call free from my website. You can also schedule appointments from my website. You can get more information about me. So that's probably the best way.

(37:08): Awesome. Anything else that you'd like to share with listeners in closing that we may have missed?

(37:13): Thank you so much for having me on and listen, if you listeners are struggling in your relationships, you're not alone. Everybody I know is struggling. We are all in the same storm. We're just in different boats and there is help out there. My, my therapist, colleagues and I, we stand ready. We're here. I mean, we're here to help. This is our life's work. We want to help you make sense of this. So don't hesitate to send an email, pick up the phone. I, or my colleagues, we're here to help you. We absolutely can make it better for you.

(37:42): That is awesome. It's a great way to end it. So thank you very much beyond the goal. I want to thank you for listening to my podcast. When at home first, I am so grateful to hear from listeners like you, that this content has been helpful. So now I would love for you to pay it forward. I want to get this message in the hands of more listeners. We need leaders to be winning both at home and at work, especially during this time. So please take a minute to share this episode with somebody you think would find value in it, as well as rate and subscribe as a thank you, please visit my website at corymcarlson.com to download a free resource that people are finding value in. Thank you very much.

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