It's time to rip the cover off what really works to ditch addiction, depression, anger, anxiety, and all other kinds of human suffering. No, not sobriety. We're talking the F-word here: Freedom. We'll share, straight from the trenches, what we have learned from leaving our own addictions behind, and coaching hundreds of others to do the same—and since it's such a heavy topic, we might as well have a good time while we're at it. [00:27.6]
Bob: Man, I feel like a talk show host. Welcome back to the show, Jasmine.
Jasmine: Thank you. Thank you very much.
Bob: All right, today, we're gonna talk about the five years or so. Now the video, the audio that we played a couple weeks ago was Jasmine talking from that place. So that's where she was feeling at that place. But I think there's some things that we can go into here to kind of chart the territory for people who are going through these initial phases of change or husband or wife, whoever has this, the issue is changing and finding support and where the support person is doing the spouse is doing and what they may be going through or not going through. And so, I just wanna talk about that for a little bit way back in the day, 2012. [01:19.3]
Jasmine: Yeah. Just to be clear, this is not the first five years of our marriage.
Bob: No, this is the five years after, like when the things turned around for me, there's the five years after that.
Bob: So, we had already been married for about eight years.
Bob: And I had done a bunch of things. I had been training martial arts for almost 25 years by that point. And so, and I had been training in body work and I had been doing some other, other things here and there. Some of it came after, some of it came before as I was trying to figure myself out. But around 2012 was when things turned around first willpower. I didn't want her to talk to me about your, the night that you thought you were gonna leave.
Jasmine: That, well, that wasn't a night I thought I was gonna leave. That was a night I told you, I had been thinking about leaving.
Bob: Fair enough.
Jasmine: So. Umm… We were laying there in bed and I don't want, we just.
Bob: Let's call this a frustrated sexual escapade or something of that. I don't remember if we were chatting or something else had tried to be done, but there was a point where she was like, tell me, just tell me everything that's been going on. And so, I told her that, and then. [02:27.7]
Jasmine: So, it was like a full disclosure type thing.
Jasmine: So, okay. I guess I asked for it, just everything and I, I just felt like I needed to let him know like, Hey, you know, it's on the table. I've thought about it. Like, I've thought, what would I do if I decided to leave you? Where, where would I, you know, go first cause we were, we were down not really close to my family except for my aunt. So, I'd be like, well I guess I'd take the kids and go stay at my aunt's house until I could get up to my mom's house. And you know, like I've thought about it and this is, you know what it is.
Bob: So, this came as a blindside to me because the, the tradition we were both raised in was one where families are not just for this life, but forever kind of families. And when I had to talk with her Dad about marrying her, it was 45 minutes long and it was emphasized many times that divorce isn't an option. Like you work out your stuff, which. [03:26.5]
Jasmine: Which I know that my dad would never want me to stay in any sort of relationship that was one abusive in any sort of way or two that was detrimental to my mental or physical health or, you know, kind of the same thing. But like I knew that's what my dad meant but.
Bob: I didn't.
Jasmine: According to Bob, it was just like, oh, we don't leave this ever. And I'm like, well, I've been thinking about leaving. So, there you go
Bob: How long had, how long had you been thinking about leaving?
Jasmine: Like it had just how popped in my head and I'd contemplate it probably for the last year before that.
Jasmine: Seriously, you know, like I think everybody has times are like I don't wanna deal with this anymore. What if I just left? So, I had a few of those times just, you know, throughout our whole marriage, but like probably the year before it was just like, well maybe I wanna leave. What would I do? Well, you know, let's think logistics so I can be prepared if I do decide to make that choice so. [04:30.9]
Bob: So yeah, so it blindsided me a little bit cause I, I was already down in the dumps. I felt like a miserable human being. I felt like I was a worthless piece of trash. Like God hated at me. These are things I was dealing with on the inside. And so, then I get confronted with somebody who's gonna leave and now automatically running through my brain is, oh, now I get to come home to an empty house every day, the kids that light up my life and are often the only things that light up my life, they're not gonna be around saying, Hey daddy anymore. I'm gonna be an utter and abject failure at everything that seemed to matter to me. And so now suicidal ideation though, it had flooded in and out of my life many times, sometimes very seriously where I would walk down the street hoping to get hit by a bus and things like that late at night. Now it was very, very much on the table. And I was like, oh no. And I just didn't, I was I something in me snap. I was like willpower. Okay. I have to figure this out. I have to figure this out cause I can't stand that option. No, she stuck around because. [05:30.7]
Jasmine: I don't know. I, I just did. It, wasn't it wasn't ever the right time for me to leave. And I'm not saying that financially or you know, any of these outside facts, I just internally, it just, it just wasn't time for me to leave.
Bob: Hmm…hmm. And you'd had that dream vision thingy.
Jasmine: That wasn't the same night though.
Jasmine: There was just a time where we, we were talking again and I just had, you know, for one second, I, I was able to see Bob how, how God sees him and also how Bob saw himself. And so, I was just filled with this. It was awful.
Bob: It was awful folks. I, I dealt with that a lot.
Jasmine: You know, just like this, this horrible feeling. I don't even know how to describe it. You know, from like I felt Bob as he felt himself, but then I also saw him as God sees him with all the love and the tenderness and the potential and everything that was there. And it, and it really was only for one second. And I believe it was only for one second because I would not have been able to handle all of that for more than one second. But that was kind of it wasn't like, okay, I guess I have to say, but it really opened my eyes to the internal struggle that he was going through that I could not even relate to on any sort of level. But I, since I got a glimpse of that, you know, it was like, okay, well here is a man who is trying, God showed me what he could be. And he still loves him. I still love him. But essentially it was just what kept me going is. [07:20.5]
Bob: Now I didn't get the glimpse of what Jasmine might be going through until I started going to the 12 step meetings, which I had started. Had I started before then? I don't.
Jasmine: No, that was.
Bob: Maybe somewhere around that time, but where it was a couple's meeting and I was listening to these wives, as I mentioned a couple weeks ago. And I was glimpsing the, the struggles that they had mentioned, their feelings of worthlessness, their feelings of not being good enough and their feelings of trying, trying, trying, and feeling invisible at home or feeling like nothing they ever do mattered. And the emotional despair, they went through, the disappointment of their dreams being shattered.
Bob: And, and that really woke me up, but that was over a period of time. So, I didn't have the same kind of glimpse, but I got a glimpse into a lot of women's lives in the same way. And that shifted a lot of the way that we communicated because now we were communicating from a place of a much deeper understanding. So, if you're listening to this right now and you're, you're going, oh, okay, what's going on? We are not advocating that you stay in a situation that is abusive just because the other person.
Jasmine: No, never.
Bob: Is a human being. Never like safety first.
Jasmine: Yes. [08:30.1]
Bob: And maybe you can work it out. Maybe you can’t, but make sure that you're and I don't mean safety just physically. I mean, emotionally too, if you're in a place where emotionally it is too hard, that needs to be addressed before you can actually look at and see if the relationship is something you wanna save. So, I just wanted to pause and make sure that that's very.
Bob: Very clear.
Bob: Both of us are, have looked at, we've looked at divorce hard twice.
Bob: In our relationship to see if it's something we wanted to do or not do. And we both decided that like staying was worth it and we're still here. Worthing it. But that doesn't mean that's the answer for everybody, regardless of your religious persuasion or beliefs or anything else you do to have happiness, both of you do. And whether you're the one at fault “who” feels like, well, no, I'm just gonna have to make it up to them the rest of your life. Or you're the one who has been the one who didn't ask for it, but got saddled with it. Both of you deserve to be happy. It's not that one of you gets to be the winner cause in a relationship where only one wins both lose.
Jasmine: Hmm…hmm. [09:36.1]
Bob: So, both of you need to fight for your right to be happy in that relationship. And if it's not gonna work well, you'll have to figure that out pretty quick. So, I started figuring things out at a certain point within the, then the next six months after I'd tried a bunch of different things. I had worked out how to like kind of get rid of all the cravings and issues and stuff. And I had had a massive spiritual experience in my own right. Or some kind of dawning realization while driving home that, wow, I'm not an addict anymore. Like this isn't the reality for me, I'm actually done with it. And at that point in time, the rest of it was me like handling my emotional states and really looking at my behaviors and understanding where they were coming from and all that other stuff. But I was living inside of my own skin. I could see that change happen really quickly because of some of the processes that I've done and that we take people through. Jasmine hadn't, so, talk about what it's like to be on the other side of it, where you're watching somebody basically pretend like it hasn't happened before. [10:39.4]
Bob: Like everything's okay.
Jasmine: So, I mean, we had been married eight, nine some years and, and through that whole time, you know, you're learning in a relationship you're growing together and certain behaviors indicates certain things, certain reactions. And so, for him just be like, oh, I'm done. You know? And like it wasn't like, I'd never heard that before. You know, I I'm sure so many spouses out there have heard, oh yeah, I'm good now.
Bob: It's not like, I never said that before either. So, let's be honest, right.
Jasmine: So, it, it was always like waiting for the other shoe to drop like, okay, he's good now. Honeymoon period's over now what? Okay. Here's another thing. Oh yep, that lasted a little bit longer this time or, oh, that didn't last as long. What's, what's next? You know? So, on the inside he sees this lasting change. He feels it. I see something good; you know? Okay. He's happier. He's not, he's not angry. His mood swings are less, you know, he's more focused. He's more patient with the kids, but how long is this gonna last? You know, and so just things that he would do, like when he would get in interrupted and work by the kids or something, I would just wait for the explosion of impatience to come because that's what happened before. So just because he changed and felt that change right away did didn't mean that I changed or felt his change right away. And that can't be expected of anybody. You know, like I am not him. So, I have to go through my own time of change and progression and being ready to move forward kind of thing. So, it took me a few years, I think before I was finally able to let go of all like everything holding me back from, Hey, this is different. This really is different. The other shoe didn't drop cause there's no other shoe. [12:45.7]
Bob: And I think this is a really important point for both sides. A lot of wives there, there are some that have managed to forgive and move on, but the husband can't forgive themselves.
Bob: Or something right. Or, and whatnot or the wife or whoever it is. And so, I think it's, it's clear for both sides. One part of the relationship may experience a change, but that doesn't mean that the other person felt it immediately would recognize it or anything cause it's your internal experience. And so.
Jasmine: And the hard part is that that person experience, the change gets so frustrated because it's not happening immediately or at when, as soon as they want it. Like why I've changed can't you see that? Well, no, I can't see that. And so, the hard part is for the, that person to be patient and allow your partner to, I don't know, you guys.
Bob: Process things, process things in their own way.
Jasmine: Yeah, exactly. Yes.
Bob: And this is where, I mean our experience will, will kind of show you this, but this is where the rubber hits the road. We tend to think that because I'm okay, everyone should be okay that the world. We grew up with this idea that the world should be a certain way. [13:52.1]
Bob: And you and everybody on the planet thinks that the way the world should be is the way that they want it to be.
Jasmine: I would love that.
Bob: And a lot of people wouldn't. You have to just trust me.
Jasmine: But a lot of people would.
Bob: So, so, but the point is like their, the idea that someone else should be other than what they are at the moment is the, at the very heart of the problem.
Bob: Both, he shouldn't have a porn thing and she should forgive me, come from the same place of you should be different than you are. And it always sends the message that you're not good enough, which was the message I sent Jasmine. After that, not only was I dealing with not being good enough, I'm starting to process that and get down to the core of it and like release that core issue and some of the other stuff. But in the meantime, I'm doing that very thing to Jasmine, by being impatient with her, for processing being careful, being intelligent, not just sticking her hand in the fire a second time. And so, I would come across with like, Hey, here's this coaching program you should try, or you should do this thing. Talk to me about that. [14:59.3]
Jasmine: Yeah. So, he, he would try and not shove things down my throat, but push gently.
Bob: Stealthy. I, I.
Jasmine: It wasn't that stealthy.
Bob: It wasn't that stealthy, but I was like around a bunch of guys that are like, you have to strategically seduce your wife, like, and they basically, it was manipulation clothed in this like intelligent conversation. It's disgusting folks, quit trying to manipulate people into being something other than they are.
Jasmine: So, I'm not a huge self-help book or a aficionado, whatever. That's not my go-to, I, I like to do things on my own. But Bob likes to go, you know, he's gone tried a ton of different things and everything. He would try, he would want me to do it too, so I could change and be just like him.
Bob: And so, we had something in common.
Jasmine: Sure. Which we don't have a lot of things in common. So, I guess that's a valid reason. But to me it felt like he just wants me to do this so that I can see his point of view and agree with him and, you know, be just like him and I don't wanna do that. And it was, it was, so it was that way with programs and books and friends, you know, people that he kinda pushed me to hang out with and it was stressful. It was a whole lot of, well, I guess I'll try it because maybe it would help our relationship, but then I'd halfheartedly do it cause I wasn't interested in it anyway. And then I'd give up halfway through. [16:27.8]
Bob: Which ended up being frustrating on my end because then I'd be like, she won't even try. And we'd things in all different areas, whether it was with intimacy or whether it was with dating or whether it was with conversation or.
Jasmine: Or activities like Kung Fu you know, I, I tried that and.
Bob: Yep. I got my wife into Kung Fu folks. She has, she packs a mean punch, just so you know.
Jasmine: I got to brown belt and then I was like, sweet, I'm done. [16:51.0]
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Bob: So, I had her do a lot of different things and some of them, she agreed to others. She reluctantly did some, she flat out, refused. To her credit, you know, just, this is who I am. This is where the pressure to be something different than you are I think comes to the surface. In any relationship, if you are marrying someone because of their potential, you're actually sending them a message that is going to prevent any of that potential from showing up anytime soon, because they're getting the message that they're not okay as they are, which means that even if they achieve all those things on the inside very often, they'll feel like it's still not enough and they'll never be good enough, which is often a, a feeling they get from growing up parents and stuff, unintentionally, a lot of times. Parents aren't trying to make their kids feel that way, but every parent corrects their kid and some kids just naturally feel like they're not good enough. [18:18.2]
We have one kid right now, who's writing notes about himself being dumb. Well, he has five older siblings, some of whom are teenagers and are really good at trying to make people feel dumb. And so, recognizing that it's not intentional, nobody's trying to make it happen and yet kids make sense like that. And adults do the same thing often based on the stories they developed as kids. And so here I was giving Jasmine. Now her some of the things she kind of dealt with as a kid, even though not super stream was feeling like she was a backup or second best or really not worth, you know, prime attention a lot of times. So did this play into that sum?
Jasmine: Probably. like I was, I was a great kid. I was a fantastic teenager. You know, I was an angel ask my mom, I was.
Bob: I've asked her mom and her mom agrees, dang it. [19:10.3]
Jasmine: So, you know it sometimes. And I've seen this with some of my own kids who are kind of the same way. Like at school they put, get put on the back burner because they don't need special attention. They don't need extra help or love or anything like that. So that's kind of where sat or I felt like I sat I always felt like I was a really great backup friend. Like I had great friends, but if another friend came along that, you know, they'd go, they'd rather go play with them instead of me. So just kind of that feeling. So, with Bob and his addiction, while I was a great back up wife, you know, like I was great to have around until something better came along to, to engage his fancy or whatever. And then I was, you know, tossed aside until he was bored and wanted to hang out with me again or whatever. And so, pushing all these things on me was like, Hey, if you unconsciously, to me, it seemed like, Hey, if you do this, if you read this book, if you do this activity with me, then you could be the cool one. You could be number one instead of number two. And that was hard. Now he like, he'll still recommend books and things, but it's totally different. It doesn't feel like he's shoving them on me or saying like, you should read this so that we can be, think the same and you know, be cool together or whatever. [20:39.9]
Bob: Not that I'm cool.
Jasmine: But it's, it's more of like, Hey, I read this, I found it really fascinating. We talk about it a little bit and you know, then if he it's a, if it's a hard copy because I honestly don't listen to books, they really annoy me to listen to them. If it's a hard co copy, he'll just say, here it is. You know, if you wanna read it, if not, that's fine. And I think there's been one book that I picked up pretty much right away and read it and really enjoyed it and we talked about it a lot. And then there was one book that it took me a couple months to pick it up. And I read like the first two chapters, I was like, eh, I don't wanna do this. And then there's one book right now that's probably taken me a few months, maybe six months probably to actually pick up, but I'm, I'm about halfway done with it now. You know, like it's, it's kind of like my own timeframe and interest and if I'm not interested or I don't have the time now it's fine. [21:38.2]
Bob: So, guys or the spouse that's dealing with the addictive piece, you may be living exceptionally like, well, right now, like you may be outta the woods, you may be feeling incredible. Keep that up because if you go down into the dumps because the other person is choosing to live their life in a different way, then that makes two of you down in the dumps.
Bob: So, the only way they'll know if there's no other shoe to drop is to continue shining radially with joy, without having your joy and happiness dependent on whether and not the other person feels a certain way. That's called codependence in many, many ways. And so instead of that, keep it up, but recognize they're not gonna fit your timetable because they have their own. And the process they go through, if you allow them to do it with grace and you don't push it on 'em might actually happen faster than it happened with Jasmine and I. [22:30.3]
Jasmine: Cause nobody likes to be forced into something, right. Nobody likes to be forced to change. So, if you push it on 'em I found it just, they push back. And so, it does take longer if it happens at all. [22:42.1]
Bob: So, for the first year or so you experience just random days, cause I want to talk about like emotion now, just days where you felt emotion, some of it dealing with hormones, some of it dealing with just something you saw, whatever for the first year or so it was off and on. For the first three years you mentioned it happened a little bit less frequently, but so on. And then it took about five years or so before you stopped having those days, do you wanna talk about that?
Jasmine: Like the flash backing year and stuff?
Jasmine: Yeah, I would just, you know, know maybe it had something to do with waiting for that other shoe or I don't like, so we have six kids, so obviously I was pregnant for all six of those kids.
Bob: I'm pretty sure that's true.
Jasmine: Because we didn't adopt any, but there's just times when a woman is pregnant where everything's fine, you're just chilling. Maybe you're on the couch with your husband watching a movie or whatever. And all of a sudden you look over and you're just like, oh my goodness, I hate you right now. And there's like, no reason, nothing happened. The movie's still playing, nobody moved in their chair or anything like that. It's just something happened and you like can't handle the person next to you. So, I, I went through that with all six of my kids during pregnancy. And I've heard of many, many women who have all the same way. So, I know it's not just me. But with my flashback, anger was kind of the same thing. Like we'd, we'd be fine. We'd be talking or we'd just be sitting there watching a movie and there was probably something that might have triggered a, an unconscious instinct of, oh, this is coming again. [24:22.8]
Maybe, or maybe it a memory from the past. And then I would just be so angry at him for something he did, you know, four years ago or how he made me feel a couple years ago, which was totally not happening in the moment and hadn't for years, but it was still a real emotion for, for me. And so, I had to kind of realize that, look, this is happening. How do I deal with this? Because it's not his fault that I'm super angry at him right now. He literally did nothing for me to be that angry. And so, then I'd get angry with myself because I was angry at him for no reason. And it was just gonna all blow up. Part of that, I recognized later was hormones, PMS. Women have PMS and when they do, it's like everything in the world is horrible and it will never, ever, ever get better, it's only gonna get worse. And that's just how you feel for a couple days. And then you look back and you're like, oh yeah, that was PMS sorry. [25:37.2]
Bob: Though, she didn't say sorry that often.
Jasmine: Because back then I didn't recognize it that often. There have been a couple of blow-up times within the last year where a couple late days later I will be like, oh my goodness, that's what that was and then I'll send Bob a text and be like, Hey, remember that? And how I did this. Yeah, that was me PMSing. I'm really sorry. Anyway, it's a real thing. It really is. So that I don't know what to tell you guys, you gotta deal with it, figure it out. For me, if I can recognize that it's happening beforehand, for me, it's better just to kind of seclude myself as much as possible because I know that it's not actually how I think things are. It's just hormone that are just making everything seem horrible. And in a couple days it'll be fine and be like, well, that was dumb. Why did I think that, you know, kind of thing. [26:36.8]
Bob: Yeah. So, a couple of good podcast episodes that we did that I did a while back called ‘the five masks of emotion’ go deeper into a lot of these things for women. I think it's important to recognize when something is chemical, like a hormonal in your body versus a true emotion. For men too, cause sometimes you're hungry or you've been tired or something else. So, you're not actually emotional, you're just tired. So go back and check those episodes out cause I think that'll give you a broader perspective of on this here. I think it's important guys to recognize that if your wife is angry, it's just her being angry and you are not making that emotion. You may have contributed to the circumstances, but you are not making the emotion she is. And if you try and fix her in that moment, she's probably gonna more pissed at you. [27:21.1]
Jasmine: Because she doesn't want you to fix her. Cause that means there's something wrong with her.
Bob: Right. So instead continue to be radially happy, but be there. You don't laugh at her misfortune.
Jasmine: You might get punched in the face.
Bob: I mean you could try to laugh. You probably only do it once. But don't, it's not about laughing, but joy is on the inside, it's not about smiles. It's just this feeling on the inside. So be that way, cause that'll allow you to be totally open and none of it's about you. It's just a person suffering just like it would be with your kid. And if you take it personally, then now you are taking it personally and now that's where the two of you would argue. The last thing I think in this episode, I wanna just to touch on and briefly is that what happens in the middle of the addictive cycle is that women have a really good, intuitive sense about something being off with their husband.
Bob: And when the guy turns a corner that needs recalibration and I see many, many women kind of get stuck in this, oh, he's in addict mode again. Or he's in this again. And then they run these mental spirals, accusing the man of something that may not actually be true anymore. And yet they believe it's true because they've had that feeling again. And so, there's some level of recalibration that needs to happen. You wanna talk about that? I, I mean you might not have experienced that as much, but there were a lot of other women that we ran, we talked to a lot that would constantly do this accusation, so. [28:42.4]
Jasmine: No, I don't recognize that I felt that way. But as you're saying that, like it rings true, you know, like it, it kind of sounds like it should be familiar to me like, oh I think I went through that and didn't even realize it. So, I don't, I don't know what I would say about that cause I haven't even thought of that before.
Bob: You heard it here, folks. I thought of something. Well, I guess that happens frequently now. Here's what I've seen. It's not the fault of the wife or the husband or whoever is the support partner, right? The spouse there. And that's not to denigrate you to a lower position, you're the one that has been as. If it weren't for Jasmine, I would be dead. I probably would've offed myself sometime a long ago. So, in that sense she was a support partner, not the, because that's her role in life. She is a beautiful human being in her own right, but she just happened to be in that role for me at that time.
Jasmine: Hmm. [29:33.2]
Bob: But a lot of them get stuck in this they've, they've developed very keen awareness of when their husband is off or when the spouse is off and they've done that for survival reasons. It has served them well.
Jasmine: It's like an extra sense that they develop.
Bob: Yeah. And, and that sense doesn't just go away overnight. In fact, it's a beautiful gift. It's just that that sense has gotten interpreted in a certain way. And so, if the other person turns a corner, suddenly that interpreter is no longer valid, but the feeling is still there. Some intuition that something's off and it may be that the, the husband's angry or upset about something. It's just that he's not going to a coping behavior.
Bob: Or he's not gonna go down a manic spiral. That's just what they're used to. And so, what I would suggest here is that you're right. You are having that intuitive of response to something going on. You are a hundred percent, right. And that intuitive response is just a signal and an attempt to get you two to talk instead of making leaping to conclusions and making assumptions. If the two of you at that point in time, be like, Hey honey, I had this intuition when I used to get this, it was this. I don't know if that's this now, do you wanna tell me how things are going? Like I'm just a little freaked out here or something like, just some kind of conversation so that you can start to recalibrate your intuition and continue to have that beautiful gift, but not in a way that's constantly driving you to anxiety or worry or something like that. Anything else you wanna say on that? [30:56.0]
Jasmine: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great idea, but to me that's way easier said than done.
Bob: Oh yes.
Jasmine: Especially for me who has a hard time saying things, especially when I'm emotional, it just doesn't come out. So, it might take some forcing yourself or maybe shoot an email or something, you know, to get what you wanna say out. But I think it's a great idea, but just because it might be hard, don't let that stop you from doing it.
Bob: Just remember that if you want a new experience of life, it's gonna be uncomfortable because discomfort is just an indicator that you've never been there before. And I'm pretty sure that anybody listening to this doesn't want to continue to go back to where you've been, which means that anything new is gonna be a little uncomfortable. So, it's a good sign and you don't have to do it immediately. You can take your time with it. You can do it at your own pace, just like Jasmine mentioned. But just remember that the feeling you're experiencing is real, but the conclusions you're making from it may not be accurate. [31:57.9]
Bob: So, so we'll talk about communication in a little bit and how we had to navigate that in a future episode. For now, this week, there's hope folks there really is hope. And each of you gets to let go of things and change and shift at your own pace. And sometimes you'll go faster than the other than the spouse. Sometimes the spouse will go faster than you. Sometimes you'll both change at the same pace, but in different ways. And the, this is a beautiful, wonderful adventure that you're on. And as long as you keep your sites forward, instead of talking how big the pain is, looking at the possibility of what happens when you start letting things go and you keep your sights on what you're gonna create, then just patiently let each person go at their own pace and enjoy the journey. [32:42.1]
And that's it for todays “Alive and Free Podcast.” If you enjoyed this show and want some more freedom bombs landing in your ear buds, subscribe right now at wherever you get your podcasts from. And, while you're at it, give us a rating and a review. It'll help us keep delivering great stuff to you. Plus, it's just nice to be nice. [32:60.0]
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