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You’ve probably taken vitamin, protein or magnesium supplements before. Those are great for your health, but there’s an invisible aspect of our health most people ignore: Our gut biome.

The trillions of bacteria in your body control more of how we feel, think and perform than most of us know.

When your gut biome is unhealthy, you might gain weight, feel stressed or get sugar cravings. When you fix your gut biome, you’ll have more energy, feel healthier and watch health issues disappear.

In this episode, you’ll hear from Jonathan Scheiman and Carolina Barsa, two of the founders of FitBiomics. They developed Nella, a game-changing probiotic designed to improve your gut health and help you perform your best.

They’ll share why probiotics are so important—and how you can improve your gut health to unleash your full potential.

Want to improve your performance every day? Listen now!

Show highlights include:

  • Why the gut biome was a “hidden” part of our health for decades (and how that’s changing) (7:37)
  • The two principles of gut health that help everyone from elite athletes to everyday people be their best selves every day. (22:24)
  • The Tom Hanks movie that shows you exactly how to overcome your biggest challenges. (27:05)
  • Why probiotics aren’t a magic pill that solves all your problems (and how to create a holistic healthy lifestyle) (29:43)
Read Full Transcript

Matt: Hey guys, welcome to Episode 283 of Built on Passion. I'm your host, Matt Dello Buono—and this week we have on FitBiomics co-founders, Carolina Barsa and Dr. Jonathan Scheiman.

FitBiomics is developing next-gen probiotics to lead the new frontier of human health and performance. They're driving holistic health through gut-supporting active lifestyles to help people be the best versions of themselves with guts to defy their limits. Although ingesting probiotics as part of a healthy diet has been in vogue for years, FitBiomics has made a monumental breakthrough into what that means.

They're revolutionizing the way people understand and optimize their bodies by decoding the biology of the most fit people in the world and translating that data into next-gen consumer products for the masses—and FitBiomics is firmly rooted in the science that drives it. They've spun out of Harvard Medical School, had their technology published in Nature Medicine, and recently launched their first product, Nella, for gut-health applications. [01:06.8]

Nella is a daily capsule of next-generation performance probiotics, designed to help anyone pursuing a healthy and active lifestyle to a new frontier personal best from the inside out. That includes benefits in digestion, energy, and sleep. Nella is also powering Olympians to medals, helping athletes break world records, and supporting collegiate athletes through partnerships with St. John's University and Fordham University.

In this episode of Built on Passion, Carolina Barsa and Dr. Jonathan Scheiman share how they came up with the initial idea behind FitBiomics and Nella, what the process of developing their flagship product was like, how FitBiomics is poised to completely revolutionize what we know about biohacking and probiotic health, and the how and why behind FitBiomics. [01:54.6]

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I guess to start off, who are you and what do you do? Who are Carolina and John Scheiman?

Carolina: John, why don't you take it first? [02:57.8]

John: Yeah, and so I think Jonathan Scheiman, co-founder and CEO of FitBiomics. As you alluded to, I have a PhD in biomedicine, really a background in science, also athletics, but we could get to that, but experience in biotechnology, and, really, with FitBiomics, the notion of applying that technology to improve human health and wellness.

Carolina: Great. I'm Carolina Barsa and I am a brand strategist with a background in engineering, so a lot of passion for taking technical scientific information and digesting that into a way that really drives consumers and gets people excited about what we're doing. It's really the art of storytelling and education in a way that's digestible for the everyday consumer to really understand the benefits of what we're bringing to market.

My background is primarily in business, so working with companies like Mars, Danone, and Unilever to really build brands are compelling and global, and helping drive changes in the lives of different folks. [04:04.6]

Matt: This is kind of the perfect thing because you guys are opposite sides of the same coin, that coin being FitBiomics. What is that? What is that and how did that come to be? How did you guys start it?

John: Yeah, I think for me, just mentioning my background, first and foremost, I was a collegiate basketball player at St. John's University, so very big into athletics and basketball. Before then, there was a time where I went to the “Fame” performing arts high school, so very big into aesthetics and pop culture, but then getting a PhD in molecular biology, and then doing a postdoc in genomics and biotechnology.

I think, for me, I’ve always been interested in “form fits function” and genotypes to phenotype in trying to understand what makes super-healthy people unique and optimal performers. I think, in biomedicine, today, the current paradigm is let's look at disease or diseased phenotypes or physiology. Let's see what doesn't work, and how can we correct it to promote human health? [05:10.0]

With FitBiomics, we're taking almost the opposite approach. Let's look at elite athletes or superheroes or super-performers, and seeing what's unique or enriched in them, and then applying those learnings and translating that, ways to help broader populations or societies.

I think based upon sort of my experience in athletics and science, bridging those two communities together to create something that's impactful for society, that's sort of how we came upon FitBiomics, and at least from a foundational standpoint.

Matt: When you initially came up with the idea, is that something that you wanted to apply to yourself or was that just more of a broad question that your research in molecular biology kind of brought you to? [05:50.6]

John: I think it has always been about applications for broader populations. I was very fortunate, I did my postdoc at the Harvard Medical School in George Church's lab, in particular, at the Wyss Institute for Biologically Inspired Engineering—just that notion, in and of itself, how can we learn what nature has selected, what works, learn from that, and then sort of apply those principles from an engineering perspective to now improve upon the status quo and, let's say, nutrition or health?

There's also a mantra that came out of that institute. We do cutting-edge research, not for the sake of keeping it in the lab, but for ultimately translating it outside of the lab, so it could have a real-world, broader impact. I think with every biotech startup or company, it's always about, how can we sort of turn our technology into real-world, practical applications?

As we'll get into, with the notion of the microbiome and beneficial bacteria and microorganisms, really, our premise is, how can we take our metagenomic information and use that to develop next-generation probiotics that not just drive gut health, but also holistic health, and not just in athletes, but everyone that wants to live active and healthy lifestyles? [07:03.2]

Matt: With what you're doing, I know you're taking something that I guess has been in the public eye for a while. I mean, in a really boiled down way, it's gut health and, as you mentioned, it starts with the microbiome and taking that and finding, I guess, the most optimized, just to optimize the gut health altogether. But what is a microbiome? Why is that important? Why does that matter?

John: Yeah, it's a great question. I think microbiome, to your point, over the last five to 10 years, has really become in vogue or more popularized, and I think that's a good thing. I remember when we were starting FitBiomics, I guess at this point, close to seven years ago now, microbiome wasn't the most well-known term. But, in essence, our microbiomes are a community of microorganisms in and on our body, predominantly in our gut—there's this famous saying that we're as much bacteria as we are human, and that's a true statement. [08:00.0]

We have trillions of microorganisms that reside in our gut and these things play a huge impact in our health, our development, our functionality, everything from not just digestion and bowel movement and diets, but to things such as neurology, immunology, and inflammation. It's really this world of microorganisms that are living in our body that pretty much have as great an influence as our own cells in determining how we live out our lives.

Matt: I know that with FitBiomics, one of the leading things that you are developing is Nella, I guess, next-gen probiotics. How did you develop it? How did you arrive at that specific?

John: I think, if you look at the notion of microbiomes, that's a somewhat new, newish concept. If you look at the notion of probiotics, that's actually a concept that's decades old. By the way, this is what excites me. This is how biotechnology can be used as a tool to evolve current industries and things of that nature. [09:02.4]

If you look at the current probiotics on the market, they're essentially decades old. There's only a handful of them that most groups or companies or consumers are purchasing, right? And these tend to come from things such as baby poop, to food, to animals, to our environment.

If you just think about selection, a lot of them were developed because we knew how to grow them. They scale successfully. They're tolerant to oxygen, and things of that nature. But there wasn't necessarily a focused approach to identifying the best that nature has to offer.

If you think about it from a FitBiomics perspective, what we're doing is we're identifying probiotics that are uniquely enriched in super-fit and healthy people. They're correlated and associate with their biology and they're physiological demands. We're then sort of identifying those, how they're unique in athletes versus non-athletes, athletes by different sports, how they change between performance and recovery standpoints. [10:03.4]

We identify that through next-generation sequencing, and then we look to isolate those through culturomics and microbiology techniques, scale them, functionally validate them, and then commercialize them. That's a long-winded way of saying what's going into Nella, but Nella is the first of many innovations we have in the pipeline, and, really, our first athlete-derived probiotic to target gut health, digestion, energy, sleep, and recovery.

Matt: I’ve got a little bit of a head start because I know we talked about this and you really laid it out, not just what you're currently working on, not just how you’ve arrived here, but kind of where you're headed. One of the interesting things that you mentioned was that you're looking at different athletes who specialize in a specific sport. Runners would be a great example of that.

Is the end goal to isolate the microbiomes of each individual athlete and kind of set it up for, I guess, each individual, depending on what someone wants to improve with? Is that, I guess, where you're headed with this? [11:04.8]

John: I think one thing that we constantly are excited about is—and this is readily admitting that—we're just at the beginning of this whole microbiome sort of frontier and we're just scratching the surface of that.
To your point, I’ll just go back to Nella as our first product. Ninety percent of current probiotics on the market consist of two bacterial genera. That's lactobacillus and bifidobacterium. Again, we go to those sources. They tend to come from food or baby poop or things of that nature.

You talk about personalization. If we want to create a new functional category for active lifestyles for athletes, but also people that just want to live fit, be active and stay healthy, imagine looking at lactobacilli species that don't necessarily come from food, but come from the guts of super-performers—again, this notion of from athletes for athletes, from athletes for you. The microbiomes of elite athletes essentially are a selection factor for identifying new strains. [12:05.8]

Now, to your point, where does it go from there? First of all, just about Nella, we've tested this hypothesis and we've given it back to, let's say, Olympic athletes, world champions, national champions, and what we're finding is it's performing well in those groups. It's helping folks win medals at the Olympics. It's helping folks win world championships. It's helping people win and develop Guinness world records, and things like that. But not just them. It's helping everyday folks as well. Again, “form fits function”, but then you apply those learnings.

Let's say we want to develop a probiotic specifically for endurance. One thing that we’ve published on is we work with ultramarathon runners, folks that run 100 miles at a time, and we actually identified and isolated a probiotic in them that naturally breaks down lactic acid and converts it into something that promotes endurance in preclinical settings. [12:55.2]

So, you could see the level of personalization. The first is let's get lactobacilli strains from athletes as a selection factor. The second is, all right, what are the applications for endurance? But to your point, this now leads itself to other applications for strength, mental toughness, recovery, both for communities, but then even at a one-on-one individual level as well.

Again, that's a long-winded way of saying there's a lot of cool stuff we're doing now, but it's only scratching the surface of what's possible, and to your point, imagine each athlete out there has their own personal microbiome decoded with their own personal probiotics for them, but then for broader communities as well.

Matt: Yeah, I mean, even to what you initially mentioned that microbiomes are important not just for physical, but mental state, I'm even thinking of a lot of issues that people have on a day-to-day basis with cognition, executive function, things like that. It really is kind of mind-blowing that this really does open up a lot of things. How has it taken this long for probiotics to get to this point? [13:58.0]

John: Yeah, again, it's so funny. Everything comes down to “form fits function” and selection factors, and bottlenecks, not just in sort of our ideas, but just enabling technology.

I mentioned the notion of the first human genome sequence being published, 15 years, $3 billion. Today, we could sequence a genome in less than two days for less than $1,000. That's just accelerating, enabling technology. The bottleneck no longer is, can we collect data? But it's really, how rapidly can we collect it? How much data can we collect? And then, actually, quite frankly, can we analyze that data to look for new solutions?

Then there's another bottleneck with all next-generation probiotics. It's about sort of manufacturing, scale up, culturomics, because, again, a lot of the current organisms were selected because folks knew how to grow them and they weren't so sensitive to oxygen. I think a lot of the bacteria in our gut are anaerobic, so that becomes a challenge in, how do we now scale those up to thousands of liters, and just kilograms of raw material? [15:06.4]

But I think that's the answer right there. Probiotics have been around and I think they've been anecdotal. I think there's been something there where, like everything today, people will start a remedy or something like that. It could be from cultures or tradition, literally, cultures, and there's some notion of like, I think this works, but I think, again, biotechnology accelerates that and improves upon that.

We said there are trillions of microorganisms in our gut, right? Think about it. If it took 15 years and $3 billion to sequence a human genome, imagine the notion of sequencing and decoding a trillion of organisms at once. But we can now do that.

I think what that does is it puts us in a position to have all this information at hand and, really, look for novel, next-generation solutions to nutrition, human health, wellness, disease, anything you could think about and how it all starts within our gut and how it's sort of programming us to be, I guess, successful organisms, if you will. [16:07.3]

Matt: Yeah. You alluded to this with what existed, what exists already isn't really, I guess, a much more zoomed-out version of what you're doing, but in terms of the actual production of your product, that's all happening in-house. That's something that you are completely doing in the FitBiomics house.

John: Yeah. I think this is also an interesting concept for FitBiomics and, again, it's part of this world of biotechnology and synthetic biology, and genomics and this genomics revolution. Yeah, we're different, so Nella is part of that.

FitBiomics is very much our biotech sort of search engine, collecting metagenomes, decoding them and identifying next-generation probiotics. Nella is the fruition of that. That's all that information that we could then decode, purify, and then scale up, and put all that research into, essentially, a capsule for consumers to have, accelerating that and making it more accessible. [17:04.6]

We're very different in a sense that we're not just a brand. We're not just a commodity that's coming up with cool packaging. One of our biggest challenges is actually conveying cutting-edge scientific concepts into real-world language relevant for pop culture. And I think Carolina is a master of that, right? That's the exciting thing. You’ve got to connect communities.

But we're not just a brand. I think we came up with this term. We're basically like, “microbiome to market.” We're basically like, we're decoding microbiomes and we're developing our own proprietary, next-generation probiotics, which we then bring to market. We're sort of both ends of the spectrum, piecing it together.

From a manufacturing standpoint, we work with best-in-class partners that are experts at upscaling in fermentation. We just apply our technology and then sort of language as sort of the bookends to that process. [18:04.2]

Matt: With creating this pretty big, pretty new concept, how has it been relating this to and educating your consumer and helping people really understand what you're trying to do?

Carolina: Yeah, that's a great question. I think as we think about the world today with marketing and sales being so easily accessible for so many brands, there's a lot of snake oil out there. There's a lot of messaging. The industry is just very saturated with everyone trying to give you a magic pill and a solution.

I think, for us, it's really about being authentic. We won't bring on ambassadors or affiliates that haven't tried our product and haven't experienced a benefit for themselves, and so I think the biggest thing for us is really bringing on these amazing athletes and everyday people who can provide that social proof and that testimony of how our products are making a significant difference in their lives.

I think that's really the true testament to the scientific rigor that we put into our products. It's not about fancy marketing and beautiful packaging, which is very much a passion for me to be able to make it relevant and cool so that people can get excited about it. [19:08.0]

But, for us, it's about building really purpose-led brands, and for what we're doing with Nella, it's about making it so that we're forging these worlds of sports, which everyone can get behind, and athletics, which is very exciting, with something like science, which can be a bit polarizing or intimidating for people to really get behind and letting people speak to their personal experiences.

So, that way, we can make it exciting and enticing for people to want to learn, to take charge of their gut health, to want to understand how they can make little changes to bigger resolutions in their overall health lifestyles, and I think, for us, it's about that constant authentic connection we have with our athletes and with all the folks that we work with.

Matt: Have you found any specific or particular challenges in trying to convey that method? [19:59.2]

Carolina: Yeah, I think, for us, it's really because a lot of the folks who are giving that social proof are not sales people. They are people who genuinely just value and love Nella and appreciate what it has for them, and so they're not doing the hardcore influencer sales pitch as much as they are just sharing their personal experiences. I think it just takes time for us to really create mass and a real groundswell of folks who are aware of it and just getting the word out to as many people as possible.

Once people try Nella, they absolutely love it. It's not going to work for everyone, but for the large majority of people, there is this reaction of surprise where people did not expect it to maybe help. That hesitation is why we also offer a satisfaction guarantee, right? We want people to not throw money away on something that's not helping them, but we also know that it does take time for probiotics to really have an impact on your health and wellbeing.

I think, for us, one of the challenges is just getting the word out to as many people as possible, letting people try Nella, letting them experience the benefits for themselves and give it the time. [21:04.5]

You're not going to take a coffee shot, where you get that boost of energy right away. This is something that is a gradual benefit that impacts your digestion, which is really coming from the inside out and it's impacting everything from your energy, your mood, your ability to focus, your sleep, all these factors that we hear people talking about.

While we're going into clinical studies to better understand the impact that it has on these key benefits, our beta test results show that people significantly saw improvements across various categories and impacts, and that has a bigger impact on your life. It matters in how you show up as a parent, an employee, an entrepreneur, just a friend, a sibling, everything, right? All of these factors are really grounded together and come together in a holistic way.

Matt: How does Nella work? [21:56.4]

John: Yeah. I guess, just to draw on what Carolina said, it's kind of interesting one of our rallying cries, I guess, in the new year and moving ahead has really been this notion of the “gut changer”. Obviously, that's a play on the “game changer” and I think that was a phrase that was used very successfully to promote sort of plant-based diets and athletes and things like that.

But I think Carolina touched upon something like, I think there's a lack of education on the role that our gut really plays in influencing our holistic health. It starts with something basic, right? First and foremost, it's just digestion and bowel movements, right? The notion of probiotics in our gut and our microbiome and how it affects just our diet and our ability to break down foods, process and absorb nutrients.

For instance, that's one of the things that we're seeing. We literally have Olympic athletes that travel internationally a lot and, through that travel, they're kind of constipated, and they take Nella and it keeps them regular. It helps them use the restroom more—and you can't understate that enough. It sounds kind of weird and funny and stuff like that, but you’d see then, having a good GI system and using the bathroom, it affects your performance, right? [23:08.4]

Conversely, we have certain athletes like high-endurance athletes. We're talking about Olympic athletes or folks that cycle for 500 miles, and when you put your body to the test, it actually affects your GI and it could be things such as IBS symptoms or other aspects of that. We have those athletes that are taking Nella that helps them with their gut health and be more regular, and has less GI distress when they're exercising.

First and foremost, who is Nella for? I'd say, it's basically for folks that have GI issues on both ends of the spectrum, especially folks that are really pushing themselves from a physical standpoint and it's affecting their gut.

Now, who else is it for? Once you sort of correct and help out your digestion and bowel movement, that has implications for energy. That has implications for sleep and, of course, sleep has implications for recovery, and I think that's another thing we're hearing from Nella users. Because they have improved GI tracks or systems or movements, it's helping them with sleep and things of that nature. [24:11.4]

I think to Carolina's point, yes, Nella is the first of its kind. We're targeting athletes and folks that live active lifestyles, but, really, it's people that want to be the best versions of themselves that are on their grind in their daily lives that could use gut health to support their holistic health. That's really who Nella is for. It's for everyone that's trying to be the best version of themselves and could utilize some gut health and next-gen probiotics to help them in that pursuit.

Matt: Do you have any particularly long-term aspirations beyond FitBiomics?

John: No, I think I'm a big believer in biotechnology. I'm a big believer in genomics, synthetic biology, metagenomics, microbiome research, culturomics, try and take it back to the beginning and I think this is something Carolina mentioned as well. The premise is “form fits function”, natural selection, decoding elite phenotypes. [25:11.3]

For us, Carolina mentions it, elite athletes are one form of elite phenotypes, beneficial phenotypes. They're a model for understanding human health and performance and wellness. First and foremost, one next step is expanding that platform. We've worked a lot with endurance athletes, but imagine just having a wide spectrum of different phenotypes and physiological demands across sort of sports, from endurance to strength to mental toughness, anything you could think of. But then how do we go beyond there?

First and foremost, yes, that will be applied towards consumer health, performance, but repurposing those for things such as immunity applications, neurological applications, longevity applications, and then you expand beyond there. What if we move beyond just athletes? What other sorts of beneficial phenotypes are there from a longevity standpoint, from, I don't know, a neurological standpoint, an aesthetic standpoint? Anything you could think of. [26:09.3]

It's always applying the principles of using biotechnology to decode what works from a natural-selection standpoint, and then sort of translating those learnings into next-gen nutrition for everyone. Scaling that idea, scaling that platform, so now you have thousands of these next-generation probiotic strains that we're looking to bring to the world. I think that is the end game, if you will.

Matt: It's not lost on me at all that this is a huge development in the probiotic world. It seems like a huge hurdle is trying to have people understand that this is not what they're familiar with when they think of probiotics. It almost seems like you have to completely rewrite the script of what that means and you're dealing with a population of people who like to know that they know what they know. How do you get past that? [27:03.0]

John: I think it's important to give Carolina a chance to answer this as well from her perspective, but, for me, I think it's just something that we truly embrace, right? I love this line from A League of Their Own, and Tom Hanks tells Geena Davis when she wants to quit and she’s like, It just got too hard, and Tom Hanks says, It's supposed to be hard. If not, everyone would do it.

Carolina and I, and our team, talk about this a lot. It's really our job and our responsibility to basically see biotechnology, but also convey it through the lens of pop culture and pop-culturally relevant sort of mediums.
Again, I’ll just take it back to my roots and I truly believe this. It's something like David Stern said, the late David Stern, the former commissioner of the NBA, and he basically said there are only three things that could change society, and he said it's basically music, entertainment, and sports. I think if you acknowledge that, how can we utilize that? [27:59.8]

There's a very clear reason why we're working with athletes, right? One, they’re a model for understanding optimal health and wellness. The answer is in their guts, biologically speaking. But, also, I firmly believe that sports transcends just sports and it has a broad impact on society, consumer purchases, how we think. I mean, think about it, “Be like Mike” or Nike or stuff like that, right? We always joke about that. Okay, be like Mike, but not necessarily just in terms of what he's drinking, but actually what's going on in their biology.

This is something that I'm passionate about and it's from my background in “Fame” Performing Arts to Comic-Con culture to basketball at St. John's to PhDs and postdocs, it's bringing this all together, so we're bridging the gap between these communities to create something entirely novel that's going to change society as we know it. That's my response, but, Carolina, I’ll give you the floor. [29:02.8]

Carolina: Yeah, I mean, that's spot on in terms of what we're trying to do, and we always talk about how we're really looking to bridge the gap between sports and science, and bringing communities together.

I think the end net of this is, yes, ego is very real, but at the end of the day, if you're telling a story and educating people by addressing, What is the problem that they're experiencing and how can you make their lives better? and you tell it to them in a distilled way, that ability to educate them and bring them on their journey with you is a bit easier than if you're trying to just almost tell them they don't have to understand it. Oh, it doesn't matter. Just trust us, just trust us. No, we're going to explain it to you and we care enough that you understand as well.

And it's not a magic pill. Nella is not the be-all and end-all. It's part of a holistic life. It's part of you managing what you eat, getting enough sleep, making sure you're drinking water. It's an essential aspect, and understanding how everyone's microbiome is different, I think, is really the premise of some of the core values we at FitBiomics have. [30:01.4]

It's about diversity and inclusion. It's about taking scientific research and saying we're not going to just take what has already been done and studied, and then bring you what, quote unquote, “has been proven.” We're going to really understand what works for today's needs.

The reality is the pressure on today's society mentally, emotionally, physically, the demands of our day-to-day lives are busier than ever and our foods are more processed. All these things really play a huge impact on our gut, and, for us, it's about helping people understand that we're going to study more diverse people—so looking at men and women, not just at men, which most science and research has been based on men.
How do we really look at women as well to understand what's unique about them? How do we look at different sports to understand the differences in the uniqueness in what works for the body today and the reality of our stressors?

For us, it's about educating people on this journey with us. They're helping us build it. We don't have an ego enough to say that we have all the answers. We are figuring out a lot of stuff. The microbiome space is very new. There is so much unknown in this field and researchers are constantly looking to understand, and that's why we did bring Nella to market early. [31:11.4]

Yes, we're going to do clinical trials, but we wanted our consumers to help us understand what works for them, what doesn't work, how do we continue to make our products and our offerings even better to solve the needs and the problems have today, because it's not the same as it was five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

I think, really, it's about the journey and making sure that all of our Nella fans and customers are really on this path and this quest to optimize health together.

John: The Nella Nation, as we like to call them. We're building a Nella nation of gut changers.

Matt: Seriously, it's scratching the surface and you're just getting started from here. Carolina, Dr. Scheiman, this is incredible. I'm ecstatic to have you on and get a chance to scratch the surface myself here. For anyone listening who wants to try Nella themselves or learn a little bit more, where's the best place for them to head? [32:02.0]

John: Please check us out at NellaProbiotics.com. Please check us out on Instagram, I guess Facebook. @nellaprobiotics is our handle. Yeah, we invite everyone to join us on this journey in really making next-gen probiotics and gut health accessible to everyone, so yeah, looking forward to folks reaching out and joining us.

Matt: Absolutely. Thank you both for coming on.

John: Thanks for having us.

Matt: Phew, we made it. Thank you again for tuning in to this week's episode of Built on Passion. Hope you learned something. Hope you maybe grew as a person. Maybe you have a new entrepreneurial idea. Maybe all of the above. Maybe you’ve got a new perspective on your favorite hobby or favorite piece of gear, and you fell in love all over again. I'm hoping for the last one. That last one actually sounds pretty good. [32:59.4]

I'm going to ask one last time for the people in the back, please leave a review. It is super helpful and a great way to show your support of the show, and if you know someone who might be interested in this episode specifically, share it to them—and, all joking aside. Thank you for everything, for supporting what we're doing.

In any event, that's it for now. I will see you next week on another episode of Built on Passion.

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