Welcome to The Millionaire Loan Officer podcast with your host, Scott Hudspeth sharing tools, tips and strategies so that you can go from a mortgage loan officer to a millionaire loan officer. It's your host, Scott Hudspeth.
Scotty: Hello everybody, welcome to Millionaire Loan Officer powered by Mortgage Marketing Animals and loan officer breakfast club. I have a special edition I'm super excited about, and it's Allie Irwin, my body language coach. And I gotta tell you, Allie has changed my life. Sometimes I say for the good, sometimes I say for the bad, just because once you know this stuff, once you know this stuff, you knew, I was gonna say this once, you know this stuff, it's like, you can't unlearn it. And then you're just seeing it all the time, and it's like uhhhh...I wish I could just go out to dinner and not see all the body language taking place at a restaurant and a coffee place. It's like how people hold their hands. I mean, you shared all this stuff with me. So, Allie, thank you so much for taking time on your day. I know you're changing lives. I just had you on a, a class yesterday. Everybody loved it. Allie, tell us a little bit about yourself, how did you get into body language? [1:23.8]
Allie: Well, I got into body language because I am a shy extrovert, which is kind of like the most difficult personality type because we love to be around people. We love to be out, but as a shy person, I had a lot of fear of social situations and I couldn't really understand like why some people were doing certain things and body language really changed all that for me. Body language made it so that I could walk into any room and feel confident about being there. And that is why body language is such a huge passion for me is because it's changed. Like I was able to get so much more enjoyment, more meetings, more sales, like more of everything that I wanted. Once I had this structure to understand why people do what they do.
Scotty: So, a lot of people that I coach teach talk to, they have that shy introvert. Some are just maybe scared of Uh – Oh, If they ask me a question, I don't know if I get into a situation I'm unsure of, cause I'm new in the business or new in sales.
Allie: What if I say the wrong thing? [2:37.9]
Scotty: Right, right. What if I say the wrong thing? So how does body language help you? Does it help you when you're walk-in, cause I I've been with you walking into a room and I didn't see any fear whatsoever. I didn't see any introvert whatsoever. How does body language help you as an introvert or shy person to not have that?
Allie: The fact that you didn't notice it is like the best testimonial, right.
Scotty: Yeah.
Allie: It’s like you can't even tell anymore. That's how automatic it is. And the way that it helps, especially with walking into a room is the mechanics of a good first impression are just that they're almost mechanical. Like if you walk in and do certain things, when you walk into a room, you're gonna make a good impression.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: And then from there it's an upward spiral, right. Cause if you walk into a room and then just notice how terrible and awkward you feel, and you don't know what to do with your hands and you don't know who to go talk to, like who's even body language helps you understand who's open to people joining their conversation.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: And who's not having to conversation that they want new people in. And so, if you don't understand body language, you don't know which group to walk up to that's gonna be welcoming. And walking into a room and knowing that you can make a good first impression and like who to approach who's open, who's not interested in you. Then it just gives you so much more confidence. And like I said, it upward spiral. Then you start off on the right foot and then you start having a good time and then you relax and then, you know, it just sets an upward spiral. Versus it can be a downward spiral, if you walk in and panic and then just like hide in the bathroom all night and then you go home and judge yourself for all the way, stood up opportunities you had to make connections and have fun and grow your business. [4:24.7]
Scotty: So, it's funny you bring that up. So, when you walked into where I did a speaking gig at a real estate office, when you walked in with me, I looked at you as a higher, like I always, you know, like who's who? And like of course I was a speaker, so people were looking at me like, okay, they're putting me up on a pedestal. I was putting you up on, on a [inaudible] cause you walked in with so much confidence with me that I'm like, I would've never guessed knowing you that you were ever an introvert. So, in saying that when you walk into a room, do you look for somebody that's open, comfortable, like what could somebody do to cuz I, I know most people go to an event and they just go to the comfort zone, right?
Allie: Yes.
Scotty: If I see a friend that's where I'm going, I'm just gonna hang right there.
Allie: Right and then you don't meet anybody new.
Scotty: Yeah. There's no sales to be had, cause I didn't meet anybody. I had no new relationships.
Allie: Or the other thing they do is they immediately pull out their phone and look super busy.
Scotty: Hmm…. hmm. [5:19.9]
Allie: Which is literally the worst thing you can do, because no one's gonna approach you if you're on your phone because you could be busy. I mean you could be busy. And the other thing is that body language you're curled in and over your phone, which is the body language that we associate with people who are low power and defeated. So, you think about what athletes look like, it's football season now, like you think about the football players, who've just made a touchdown and like their arms are thrown up in the air and they're dancing around and they've got big energy. And then the person who just fumbled a play.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: You know, their head is down, their shoulders are rolled forward. That's what you look like when you're on your phone.
Scotty: Interesting.
Allie: So, either you go talk to someone that you already know, which is, you know, nice definitely go say hi to them, but it doesn't grow your network, doesn't grow your connections or they get on their phone. Both of those are no.
Scotty: No’s, no’s.
Allie: So, what you might try instead is to just take a minute before you walk into the room and listen to some music that puts you in the mental state of the emotions you wanna have at the event.
Scotty: Hmm. [6:37.0]
Allie: So, before our call today, I listened to one of my favorite like pre podcast songs, which is like, ‘I don't care if you know what my secrets are.’ You know, it's like such a silly song.
Scotty: Awesome.
Allie: But it's like the perfect pre-game song before you get on a podcast.
Scotty: Awesome.
Allie: You can see me, your audience can't see me, listeners can't see me, but you can probably hear in my voice, how like I'm laughing and I'm having a good time when I listen to that music. So even though that doesn't seem like a body language thing, that's a huge body language tip.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: Is just to listen to some music before or an event that puts you in the mind frame that you wanna have at that event, everybody uses this. Presidents use this soldiers use this, business people use this, athletes use this. You need like a pump-up playlist.
Scotty: Interesting.
Allie: Or a chill playlist. Like if you're really hyper and nervous, maybe you need to listen to something to calm you down. [7:37.9]
Scotty: Hmm…Yeah, I always see athletes, now that you say that with headsets on.
Allie: Yeah.
Scotty: They're putting themselves in a state that they wanna be in, which now they know that song. I mean, I have those, of course I have the same playlist, those into every night, you know, on my walks.
Allie: Yeah.
Scotty: Like, let's go, I'm like running by the time I'm get back, cause it’s just, I'm so excited, you know?
Allie: Exactly, exactly. And that changes your sate when you walk into a room.
Scotty: A 100%
Allie: And then you can walk in with your shoulders back, your arms loose making eye contact. And you're looking for groups where people literally look open. There's like a little physical space in their group where it looks like they're waiting for another person to join them. And people can actually see it when they know to look for it.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: You can see a group that looks closed off. And then when you approach that group approach all the way in.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: Don't hover outside, because if you're hovering outside, you're sending them a signal that you are an outsider.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: That you are not confident enough to join the group. And then the hello is just hello. Hey everybody, how's it going tonight? Like it's not some magic line. That's hard to use.
Scotty: Right.
Allie: What would you say if you were walking into a new group? [8:47.6]
Scotty: You know, I'm okay with it. I actually thrive off of the new group. I love, I mean, I could walk up to any place anytime and, but I do what you see. I look for the open. Like if somebody looks at me and I do this all the time on my walks, when I walk into a restaurant grocery store, you name it, I'm looking for somebody open that I don't even know that's looking at me go. And then I just shake my head, we shake our heads. And then if I sit next to 'em, we start talking.
Allie: Perfect.
Scotty: It's just what I do, you know, maybe out of practice.
Allie: That's exactly what I was gonna say. You actually make a really important point is don't wait until like some big event to try this stuff. Try this stuff, when you walk into Walgreens.
Scotty: Hmm…hmm.
Allie: Or when you're at the grocery store. Low pressure practice is such a great way to normalize it in your system. Just be like, I'm the kind of person to, that can talk to anyone.
Scotty: Yeah.
Allie: You can grow that belief in your mind through low pressure practice. And then when you get to a big event, you'll just have muscle memory.
Scotty: Good point.
Allie: Or even a coffee date. Some people are nervous walking into like a coffee date with someone new.
Scotty: Yeah.
Allie: But the more of those low-pressure practices, the easier it gets. [09:53.3]
Scotty: You know, it's funny when I first met you, it was hard for me, but now I almost I'm getting excited talking about it, knowing that I got a breakfast date tomorrow and I got another launch date on Monday of people I haven't met. And I'm like, I'm excited.
Allie: Yeah.
Scotty: Like I don't even think about what I'm gonna say. I just know that it's gonna go good, you know.
Allie: Of course, it is.
Scotty: Yeah. I got a big one for you.
Allie: Oh, oh.
Scotty: 2020 was a huge change for everybody. People didn't get together. People weren't gathering, there was no events. We all went to zoom, tight. It was like zoom was nobody to everything overnight.
Allie: Yeah.
Scotty: How did that change the perspective of body language over, cause I think a lot of people were caught off guard with the whole situation. People are still trying to catch up to this day. He, we are almost two years later, right?
Allie: Absolutely.
Scotty: How did zoom not being with people change the whole dynamics, frequency core, if it did at all? [10:46.9]
Allie: It definitely did. And definitely if people have been primarily having zoom meetings and are going back to in person meetings, give yourself some grace that there's some adjustment. Just like it was a huge adjustment to go to zoom meetings, it's an adjustment. I was at a crowded Christmas market a couple of weeks ago and I had to leave even though I'm vaccinated, even though I had my mask on, like I didn't have any logical fears. It's like my system was overwhelmed being around all those people again in. And so there will be an adjustment period going back to more in person meetings. So just give yourself some grace and again, low pressure practice is a great idea. Go to some smaller things.
Scotty: For sure.
Allie: And then give yourself a little recovery time afterwards, before you try to fly to a big event.
Scotty: Good point. Good point. Yeah.
Allie: The other thing is that zoom, it's harder to establish that warm connection than it is in person. Like in some ways it's easier because there's no travel time and you can literally up your quantity, but it's harder to establish that warm connection because you're not in person because you can't shake hands.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: And when we shake hands with other people, our brains release a chemical called oxytocin.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: That immediately makes us feel more connected. Zoom is better than a phone call because we can still look at each other. We can still read each other's body language through our eyes, but it's a 2D version, not a 3D version. And our brains have to work a little bit harder to read those same signals in a 2D version than they do in person. And so like, it's just a little bit more tiring. It's a little bit harder to establish that warm connection. [12:31.1]
Scotty: Interesting. I mean, I was working from home before it started, so it wasn't as big of a shock, but I know some of my friends were like, whew, man, this is tough, you know? Cause they weren't getting those endorphins. They weren't getting the oxytocin.
Allie: Yeah.
Scotty: That we get on a daily. I think they were looking at other places that it just did, wasn't coming in, you know. It's kind of scary.
Allie: It's true and you make a good point. It's all about what you're used to and any change what you're used to is just again, give yourself some grace.
Scotty: Yeah.
Allie: Some time to adjust.
Scotty: Yeah. What is one or two of the things that you're coaching? Cause you're a coach, and if you wanna, like, if someone wanted, like, I was just fascinated with working with you because I'm so intrigued, just knowing how to read people when I walk room or walk into a one-on-one, like I said, it sometimes is a double-edged sword cause now I know and it's like, eh, this person isn't into the conversation or before I might not have known about it, what are one or two things that.
Allie: Isn’t that better though, because it's not like they're not into you.
Scotty: Right, right. [13:31.3]
Allie: Like it's not personal. They're just not into whatever you have to offer at this moment.
Scotty: Good point.
Allie: And it doesn't even matter because then you just move on more quickly and you don't. One of the biggest things. I'm not sure that I let you get your question out. So, I'm gonna answer the question, like what are the benefits? Is that what you asked?
Scotty: Yeah, benefits. Yeah, couple of benefits.
Allie: What are the benefits is you don't waste your time on things that aren't a good fit. Like it's such a time saver to be able to read people, to be able to read what they're afraid of, what they're excited about. And when you can read people's body language, oftentimes you have access to information that they're not even fully aware of.
Scotty: Hmm…hmm.
Allie: Like an example, I'm thinking of a work with a photographer friend who would pitch packages like wedding packages to a client and the client would say like, oh yeah, that's okay. Oh yeah, we're gonna do this. Oh yeah, I want those. But then like they wouldn't ever buy the pieces of that package that they weren't excited about.
Scotty: Hmm. [14:36.7]
Allie: And so, after body language coaching, when she could read the other person, if someone made those. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. About black and whites, she knew that person didn't really want black and whites.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: Or the person really didn't want an engagement photo included in the package. And so, it just helped her not waste time producing products that weren't gonna sell because she could read the clients so much faster and they could get to a deal, yeah.
Scotty: Yeah, you should keep digging for what you really did like, and that's what I love about what you taught me is I find excitement in someone's voice cause it changes instantly when you hit the core of.
Allie: Yes.
Scotty: What makes them happy. It's game on, right.
Allie: And then you come off like a mind reader. It's like, you know them better than they know themselves.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: And that's where you not only get clients, but you get like raving fans that are gonna refer you to other people. [15:30.4]
Scotty: A 100%, 100%. You taught me some stuff and I wanna make sure I put it in this podcast. You taught me if I'm I hate having just a phone call, hate it. I hate like, that's one of the things I hate and you taught me one thing to help with. if I can't get somebody on a zoom call, what can I do to increase those oxytocin forms of chemicals that are released without having them on a zoom call?
Allie: Such a great question. Because like I love that you're giving me an opportunity to share this cause it's so crazy that people think it won't work until they try it. What you can do is you can pull up a picture of that person that you're talking to and be looking at that picture while you're having your phone call.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: And it sounds crazy cause you think what difference does that make? But when you're looking, for example, at their LinkedIn profile, picture, it humanizes them. And again, intellectually like we know we're talking to a person, it's not a surprise, but it's like that second channel in our brain clicks on. And this is not just like Allie's good idea. This is backed up by scientific research. Even all the way down to like a quick example is doctors who include a picture of themselves in their signature for like radiology requests get more, more accurate radiology information.
Scotty: Hmm…Interesting. [16:58.3]
Allie: Yeah. Without going into the details of the study, knowing that a person is requesting this information changes how the person reads the, whatever it is, radiologists read.
Scotty: Unbelievable. Yeah, that's crazy.
Allie: Yeah. It's a really powerful.
Scotty: So just by pulling up a picture, whether it's Facebook, LinkedIn, doesn't matter when you're talking to somebody on the phone, you can, whether it's on your phone, computer, pull up a picture of them. I tell you, it works for, it's almost a habit that I have that I don't even know I do anymore. I just pull it up like, okay, who am I talking to? Right. And I look at.
Allie: Right.
Scotty: Right. And not only is that here's the best part about social media Allie, is if I pull it up and I'm on their Facebook page, if I need info, where were they yesterday? Where'd they eat dinner last night? Where'd they go last weekend? Like I have all this information.
Allie: Right.
Scotty: That I can easily bring in conversation if I need it, right.
Allie: Absolutely.
Scotty: So, you went to that restaurant, how was it? You're like, whoa, psychic, you know like.
Allie: Yeah. And not, I mean not in a creepy way.
Scotty: Right.
Allie: In a friendly way.
Scotty: Right. Friendly way, yeah. [17:53.1]
Allie: Even if like taking any great vacations lately and then, you know, you give them an opportunity to talk about their great vacation.
Scotty: Good point. Once somebody works with you, what's an average of like people come back and go, oh my God, Allie, like this stuff really works. I made a sale where I never would've have read that person's body language and I've read it. And I was able to implement what you taught me and now I have a sale and I'm helping the person.
Allie: Well, obviously there's a range, right. But this information is so immediate that you can use it same day. Like you can leave a coaching session and then go out and practice noticing, having pump up music before your next meeting and noticing the difference that makes.
Scotty: Hmm.
Allie: Or I teach you one of the skills of reading people and you learn a micro expression. You can start looking for that micro expression and notice anger in your phone calls the same day.
Scotty: Amazing.
Allie: And then over time, that effect compounds. So, you see a small effect right away, but it compounds over time. And a quick example of that is that Ted talk game that we play in our classes.
Scotty: Hmm-hmm. [19:02.4]
Allie: And at the start, when I created that video in 2014, the person had like 150,000 more views. But over time now, like over the seven years, the person with a good body language, they've got like five and a half million times more views.
Scotty: Yeah, crazy.
Allie: Body language has 12 times the, when it's in conflict with your spoken word, when you're congruence and people can trust you, it has 12 times the impact of when it's out of congruence. When you say, oh, so excited to be on today's call and you clearly do not. Or like, oh yeah, we can do that. And then you're showing fear all over your face. And the other person knows that you absolutely cannot do that. You know, it has 12 times the effect. So, bringing that into alignment, you get small effects, same day and then those effects just compound over time.
Scotty: Unbelievable. Yeah. 12 times. I don't think I've ever heard you say that 12, 12, like when I physically meet with somebody, you know, it's funny how that video, the guy's like walks open arms, you know and I know you guys can see me.
Allie: Yeah.
Scotty: But I'm, I'm kind of like, what's the gesture I'm doing. I'm just like, Hey, you know, like arms are open wide. [20:17.7]
Allie: Yeah. Like [inaudible] open, easy broad.
Scotty: I almost do that. Like almost consciously when I woke go, Hey, what's, you know, like I'm open. Like, Hey, what's up? How you doing?
Allie: Welcoming.
Scotty: Yeah. Yeah. Powerful, super powerful. What's what's the timeframe. I know, you know this, but what's the timeframe that you have to make that first impression with body language that they instantly know you like a book.
Allie: This is such a great question because it's so like people inherently know this it's like seven seconds or less.
Scotty: Crazy.
Allie: Different scientists give you different numbers, but it's immediate. It really is, before you’ve said a word. Before you've said anything other than hello, like you walk in, they see you and they've already judged everything about whether you can help, whether you wanna help them. Does this person seem competent? Does this person seem like he's gonna be fun to work with? And a lot of people get scared by that number because they like, oh no, what if I screw it up? And I'm like, no, it's good news. You only have to like, get it right for seven seconds and then you're golden. You set yourself up for success.
Scotty: That's awesome. That's awesome.
Allie: You do anything for seven seconds. [21:28.8]
Scotty: Yeah, that's great. Excellent, excellent, excellent stuff guys. I can't recommend Allie enough. How does somebody get ahold of you to have a conversation about coaching specifically for body language? It's so life changing. If you're in sales of any kind, I would highly recommend that you reach out to Allie, have a conversation, see if it’s a fit for you. I know it was for me. I was thankful that she was only an hour away and I could drive to her training, so that was pretty cool. I didn't have to do anything virtually at the time. So, Allie, how does someone get ahold of you to get more information about body language, coaching, what you have, how it all works.
Allie: The best way is to just shoot me an email allie@allieirwin.com.
Scotty: Okay.
Allie: So easy, that's the best way. People should absolutely connect with me on LinkedIn. That's another easy way. The best thing to do is to hop on a call, a short 15-minute call and talk about what your goals are. Because everybody's goals are different. Everybody's personality is different. They're starting from a different place and wanna go to a different place. And so, the best thing to do is to just shoot me an email. You can put, let's talk in the subject line and say, you know, I wanna talk about body language. The email doesn't have to be any, don't spend any time writing it. Just like I wanna talk about body language and I'll send you a link and we'll hop on the phone.
Scotty: Excellent. [22:42.9]
Allie: And figure out how body language can change your life.
Scotty: Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. Allie, thank you so much. I appreciate you more than you ever know. I'm so glad that I'm bringing you into my world. Maybe we'll be on stage together someday, or you'll be on stage, I don't need to be there. Anything I can do to help you. If you need a referral or a recommendation or anything, just let me know, I'm there for you. Thank you so much for what you do and what you've done for me and my team now.
Allie: I appreciate you so much, Scott. The feeling is mutual.
Scotty: All right, guys. Thanks for listening to Millionaire Loan Officer powered by Mortgage Marketing Animals and the Loan Officer Breakfast Club. Happy holidays, everybody. We'll see you, same time, same place next Thursday. Be safe. We'll see you on the web. Take care everybody.
Allie: Bye bye. [23:21.4]
I'm a Millionaire Loan Officer.
Thank you for tuning into the Millionaire Loan Officer podcast with your host Scott Hudspeth, don't forget to visit MLOlive.com to have your questions answered. See you next time. [24:40.9]
