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Conducting business online is more important than ever before. But it’s not as simple as putting your products online and watching the sales roll in.

Businesses that previously relied on in-person visits have to figure out how to translate the one-of-a-kind experiences they provide to e-commerce to maintain consistent sales.

In this episode, marketing expert Drew Hendricks discusses the importance of the customer journey and how to successfully take your physical business online.

Show highlights include:

  • An unexpected way studying philosophy makes sales easier than you ever thought possible (2:58)
  • How to turn a physical business into an online success immediately (9:45)
  • The “Gen Z” reason that you need to take your business online ASAP or miss a ton of sales (14:11)
  • The “Store Clerk” method for replicating the in-person shopping experience online (16:50)
  • How misunderstanding the customer journey can bankrupt your business  (22:11)
  • How the virtual community model makes your cash register ring even when customers aren’t physically there (24:16)

If you enjoyed today’s show, make sure you head on over to www.tapsandtees.info and download your free report of ‘No BS,’ game-changing marketing tips and strategies that show you how to blow up your brand online.

Read Full Transcript

You are listening to the Taps and Tees Show, weekly conversations for people passionate about marketing, golf and craft beer. Marty is the cofounder of Bad Rhino, an award-winning digital marketing agency helping golf and craft beer brands get real results in social media marketing. Here is your host, Marty McDonald. [00:21.7]

Marty: All right, well, welcome to another episode of Taps and Tees and just continuing on here in 2020, bringing on experts and people that I know that can help you out. And today I'm really excited to bring on somebody. That's was kind of funny just in the pre-show just thinking about how we met and all that. And I was like, man, Drew, you introduce yourself as a philosophy nerd to me, my first time I met and I was like taken aback because we're at an agency mastermind. And you know, I think, I don't know if it describes him perfectly, but you know, he's got a degree in philosophy and ancient Greek, so you don't come across people like that. And I think being in the agency world over the years, I've encountered a lot of people much like in craft beer and in golf industry that have various backgrounds and where they wind up and Drew is definitely one of them. He spent about 10 years as a wine buyer for one of the largest wine stores in San Francisco area. Then he launched one of the first wine auction sites to help his customers, you know, sell their wine collections and everything. He's got an MBA, so he knows what he's doing there in the agency world. He found it a web development company to helps smaller, independent wine stores complete or compete online rather with larger chain stores. [01:34.4]

So he's always looking for that edge and I think it comes out in all his marketing and every time I hear him speak on our calls and events that I've been with him, like he knows his stuff, and that's what I'm trying to do here you know, during this crazy time is bring people on here that can help you out. And, you know, Drew founded Nimbletoad. You know, what his goal is, is to help businesses do online and that's, we're going to talk a little bit about today. He's got a, a nice loyal client base and he helps them, you know, his own clients develop their own loyal client base, which I think is huge. And he likes to do some photography as well. And he, I think he's won some awards, but I'll let him talk about that. So drew, are you there? [02:14.1]

Drew: Hi Marty. Thanks for having me on today.

Marty: No problem.

Drew: (cross talk)

Marty: Why don't you expand a little bit on the, you know, the choppy intro I just gave you and

Drew: Oh okay

Marty: You don't have to talk about your philosophy or ancient Greek degrees, but.

Drew: Oh that was incredible. It was fantastic. No, upon graduating from college, I really just needed to find a job and being a philosopher you don't really train to do anything. So I decided to go drink wine, and that's how I wound up in the wine business. And then immediately found out I had sort of a pallet for it. And a lot of the skills that I learned as a philosopher really kind of helped with marketing cause you're constantly trying to convince someone to do something, to prevent something that your arguments correct. And really that's been, was kind of the core and the seed of, of marketing for it, for me, and kind of led the led the way to the next 28 years of running a series of marketing companies, each one, getting a little more focused. [03:08.8]

Marty: A little bit more focused on a little different. I know, I know for me, like I do my best philosophy thinking while I'm drinking a beverage of choice, so I can see where they go hand in hand. So tell me a little bit about, you know, how at least Nimbletoad, we don't have to go all the way back to everything, but at least how Nimble Nimbletoad got started and what do you guys really focus in on?

Drew: Yeah, Nimbletoad is actually the product of a Vintellect, which was dedicated specifically to wine and helping small companies compete with the larger ones, especially private companies. And then just almost by organic growth, we started getting into a law firm. Then we started getting, you know, a med spa that wanted to use our services and with web design. And then soon we just grew into a generalist agency helping local businesses do business online and be found online. So that's sort of the progression. And now we're in the process of niching back down into wine since that's always really been our passion. [04:12.0]

Marty: Okay. So tell me, like, going back to the, you know, the beginning, like working with wine and talk about a little bit about the evolution of, of that industry and, you know, what's changed from a marketing perspective and how you've been able to help the little guy go against the big guy, so to speak.

Drew: Sure. Sure, like back in, back in the nineties, when I started, it was really a, really a what's known as almost a three tier system. There wasn't a lot of direct consumer sales of wines directly to the public at the time wines were sold through a distributor and then the distributors sold the wines to a store which were then marketed by the store. So there was a bit of a disconnect between the wineries and their actual product that they were selling. So at that time, the main emphasis was helping stores market and sell their wines and pick their wines. But over the last 20 years, there's been an increased push of wineries selling directly to consumers, through wine clubs, through just basically online sales and as the Internet's grown and people are becoming more and more comfortable with purchasing wines online. There's we were able to shift from like the actual retail store marketing towards the actual direct consumer winery sales. [05:31.9]

Marty: Really interesting, as far as the searching and all that, because people like to drink, you know, neat little things, especially wine. I mean, see it in craft beer, you see it more and more in craft spirits. And, you know, if you use like bourbon as an example, you know, everybody that I know drinks, bourbon, that's really into it. Like they want to try different, you know, nuance flavors and different things that hit their pallet differently. You know, people do crave that, so I could see like searching online and trying to find some of those things and buying something that you’re other wine friends may have never tried.

Drew: hmm…hmm.

Marty: Now, is it that what you've seen, has it been regionally like everybody in say California or the West Coast looks at certain things different than the East Coast or when somebody is figuring out a strategy, are they just going after local or national market? I think is the question I'm looking for there. [06:25.2]

Drew: I think they're, I think the people, they like to find that local special wine that their friends can't get where they are. And back in the nineties, when we, when I started with, I used to refer to ourselves, so it's almost as rumrunners because it really wasn't even legal to ship wines between States.

Marty: Right.

Drew: This is all it's been slowly opening up and opening up. And I think there's about three States left that really need to open up their borders to interstate shipping. But now it's actually possible for people and I believe it's 46 States to, to ship wine from California.

Marty: Yeah it is.

Drew: To those States through one method or another. So the, so the whole idea was or the whole idea of pursing wines online is building out your collection with these special bottles and these special types of wines that people can't get in their local area. Especially if they're in a state that doesn't really have a good distribution system. [07:24.9]

Marty: Yeah, no, it is for sure. I mean, I live in Pennsylvania and I mean, I know craft breweries locally that will ship, and I know the rules have changed. I don't know all the rules about out-of-state things. I know like a lot of craft beer stuff has popped up in services where you can ship things. There's one from New York brewery that just said that they were going to start shipping. So there's all these little weird rules. I mean, when people do start off, so if you're advising a client and they're going, okay, we want to start pushing our stuff online and we can ship it here and here, is there some sort of strategy to take somebody through like a customer journey about how they're going to find that wine? Or is it a little less nuanced than that? It's like almost, Hey, if we build it, you know, it will come, they'll people will come so to speak. [08:15.7]

Drew: First, there is a little bit of that, if you build it they'll comment. It definitely helps to get the ratings and to get sort of that publicity. So then the people are searching it out. And I know like being in Pennsylvania, it was only in the last two, three years that you were allowed to get that with direct to consumer wines, I think it was with beer too.

Marty: Yeah.

Drew: So the idea is you can do, you can do a concentrate, a push if you start by having a kind of a road show where you set up contracts with different restaurants and have chased in groups and you kind of, you build out from a, from a core base. Like maybe people visit Napa Valley or they visit Sonoma.

Marty: Hmm.

Drew: And you get down their names and you get down the names, and suddenly you see a core segment within a city where you've got 20 people on your list that have been to the winery, express interest in your winery. You can kind of build it out from there and do an actual local push in that city, in another state. You always have start with a foot hold. [09:11.2]

Marty: Yeah, I know, I know. I mean, I think that's a perfect way to describe some of those things, because I get the question all the time now, you know, sitting here in 2020 as well, like from brewers in various States and just coming, looking for information marketing, but you know, they're trying to take their businesses online because no one's coming in the tap rooms.

Drew: Hmm…hmm.

Marty: And everything else that's going on. So I think one of the things that you hit on is getting the ratings, right. I think in craft beer, you know, there's a little bit of that with things like untapped and a couple of other services and apps where people are checking in. But then getting like any awards and things like that that are searchable, you know, like, Hey, this one XYZ awarded at this beer festival or in a national beer festival or a global one, even. So I think that part is key and like driving the sales, you know, to there. And I think from what I've been hearing, you know, it was just confusion sometimes on what services can can do, what, you know, when it comes to alcohol shipping to state the state, and then there's the cost, you know, the consumer.

Drew: Hmm. [10:20.0]

Marty: You know, you're shipping liquid, so it's going to be some weight to it. And I think wine, you know when you look at it, people buying a case of wine, they see it a little bit different than buying like a case of beer or a case of beer, you know, maybe 10, 14 days, depending on what they're buying it for last case of wine. And some cases might be like, you know, a six month type thing. There's, they're going to have it with certain foods and, and other things. So I think there's a little bit more of a thought process, that's why I asked you about the, the customer journey versus, you know, build it and they will come, but you hit the nail on the head, in my opinion of like that PR. And I think that gets lost in the shuffle when you're trying to make sales, like you have to educate your customer a little bit about what you sell versus somebody else and how they might enjoy it versus something else that they had. And I think now I know now actually just digitally, you have to do that because of the situation we're in. What's like some of the things that you have to educate?

Drew: You actually brought up a good point there. [11:23.2]

Marty: Yeah.

Drew: About the

Marty: Go ahead.

Drew: Three different types of, the sales of wine. And some of those wines will be drunk over the next six months. But a lot of it, some of these wines, you buy a case, you're looking at a 10 year life span as it ages.

Marty: Right.

Drew: And if you're looking at the $100-200 bottles, the price, the shipping ratio is not that bad.

Marty: Exactly.

Drew: Versus looking at it, $2-3 bottle of wine and the cost of shipping, suddenly it isn't that, is cost-effective. And we've always been looking those collectors’ wines for shipping, but there's been a shift in the last few years towards wine, like almost like a blue apron type style where you have like a wine subscription where the wines are actually shipped to you for a daily drinking.

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: And that's been particularly, we've seen a big ramp up over just in the last year, especially with this pandemic and COVID where people aren't is unwilling to go up out and go to shops and they're looking for more and more deliveries.

Marty: Yup.

Drew: So we have a lot more wine shipments. It's actually been a good thing for wine shipping the last six- seven months. [12:25.8]

Marty: Yeah. I mean, the, the point you make there with the shipping versus, you know, how long that bottle sits around is a great point in wine. And even in craft spirits, you know that we're here, they'll have a longer shelf life than, you know, certain beers you don't want to sit around too long. I mean, you want to drink them fresh as possible with a lot of the things that are going on, so if it's.

Drew: Hmm…hmm.

Marty: You know, can on a Saturday, the best day to have that is, you know, sometime within that week, you can get by, I mean, stuff has a little bit longer shelf life than people want to lead on, but I will tell you, you know, that will break down quicker wine, you know, just like they say, you know, fine wine gets better with age, right. But you know, certain things don't, and I think that's the nuances. And that's why I was wondering what I was about to answer that question or ask you that question was, what do you have to do to get a winery to understand how to sell online when they're so used to probably just people swinging by or tourist traffic or whatever, where even being part of, you know, a bigger operation, like a golf course or a resort or things like that, what do you have to do to kind of get them ready for the online sale versus the in-person sale? [13:39.5]

Drew: Well, you know, not to, it helped have all the winery tasting rooms closed so that people couldn't actually go into the wine wineries to purchase the wines. So that, that was a big push. But thinking in normal times, when there isn't a pandemic, really it's helping the wineries understand that the way the population is shifting, we've always been talking about the millennials. Now they're in, they're approaching 40, so they've been around for a while.

Marty: Right.

Drew: And then we had gen Zs coming up. In gen Zs we are going to be one of the first that have just, they've been born and raised to purchase things online.

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: They feel less, less comfortable going into a store than they do buying something online. And that's been a huge shift before in my age, being a gen X-er, I'm used to touching, seeing a bottle, touching it, feeling it, walking into the winery and purchasing it. It was a bit of a learning curve for me to start purchasing just as my cell phone line, but it's not the same for gen X or gen Z and millennials. And one thing is helping the wineries understand that they are going to address this younger population, they need to shift the way that they're actually presenting their, their products and those products have to be online cause a lot of times that's the only place that under 30 generations is going to be looking. [14:57.9]

Marty: 100% I mean, you see in every industry, I mean, being gen X myself, I look at it as like my first purchases online were books on Amazon.

Drew: Hmm…hmm. Oh yeah.

Marty: Like I thought that was like the coolest thing in the world, like I could just buy this book right now and have it sent to my house. And like, this is awesome.

Drew: Hmm…hmm.

Marty: Then, then it became music right then from there, you know, obviously you can just, you can buy practically anything online now, but for me personally taking that is like, you, you were a little bit more skeptical. Like, do I really want to buy whatever it is online when I can just go here and do it, you know, do I need that experience? Am I comfortable with putting my information in here? A lot of those barriers are gone. As long as you have a very fast loading website, as long as it feels and looks, you know, comfortable, you know, I always follow the Amazon model; people are used to doing that. [15:56.1]

Drew: Hmm…hmm.

Marty: And then you have to educate the buyer a little bit. You know, if they're not walking in and talking to somebody, I was just talking about somebody and I don't want to get off the beaten path because it's a good story, but.

Drew: Hmm.

Marty: I used to think about, there's a giant bookstore down the street from where I live and I still live today. I used to go in there on Sundays and in the afternoon for a little while, about an hour or so. You flip through some books, you might listen to a couple of CDs, like you used to have way back when.

Drew: Hmm.

Marty: And then I would always walk out of there usually with, you know, some new music and a book, right? But the interaction between the people that worked in the bookstore that were ahead of the music, they would ask you, you know, what you like and, and do all that. And you'd have recommendations there, but that process needs to be replicated online.

Drew: Hmm…hmm.

Marty: You can't just put something up and say, even if you have the best reviews, you still have to walk them through the process. And then once you get them to that shopping cart, that shopping cart needs to be airtight, whether it's on mobile or desktop and it needs to be ready to go where people are comfortable with, you know, executing that sale. [17:02.4]

And I think some of those things are glossed over, you know, when you go and do it. And I know, you know, probably taking somebody from that and saying, okay, this is where we're going to go. You want to reach the, this group of people, whether it's younger or older, they have different nuances about how they want to be “ sold” to online, even if it's a product they love like wine. And we do a lot in golf and you still need that customer journey where they show up, maybe you collect an email, then you educate them with like three or four or five emails. And then you put them on a longer drip campaign after that to hopefully entice them to come back. But you're educating them the entire time.

Drew: Hmm.

Marty: And consumers are savvy now and especially, you know, the ones you mentioned as they get older, you hear from millennials all the time I do anyway is like, I just want to go and click and be able to buy a house. You know? So that's the point we're at where they want that. We're not quite there yet in an industry, society and everything else for that type of purchase, but that's where everything's headed. So it's always interesting to hear how different industries like wine or beer or anything really are getting caught up to that. [18:15.3]

Drew: Oh, it absolutely. You got Carvana now; you can just buy a car online.

Marty: Yeah, no, I know.

Drew: One step closer to the house, but with, with, with wine is you were talking about it is that customer journey and it's replicating that same sort of experience that one would when used to feel when they're coming into the tasting room and online journey might be where it starts with a recipe. Recipes are a great way to bring people into your, your website because they may be searching for the a recipe for beef burgundy on there or something.

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: And then that's, that may be their first instance they wound up in your site, not specifically looking for the best Cabernet Sauvignon or the best Merlot.

Marty: Right.

Drew: But they're looking for a recipe and you've provided them some wines that go along with that recipe. And that may be the gateway where you've, you've found someone that you know, that they have a culinary background. You know, they have an interest in food and wine. And that's that first top of the top of the funnel type of interaction. Then it might lead down to an email where you have a virtual tasting of that, of that wine and an offer for this, the person to purchase that one since you knew they were interested in that. That’s it.

Marty: Yup. [19:25.9]

Hey, if you're enjoying what you're hearing on the show and want more, head on over to TapsAndTees.info and get our free report with game-changing tips and strategies straight to your inbox. Just enter your info and stop being stuck with no marketing plan. [19:39.4]

Marty:So true it’s a, you have a variety of things that kind of go into that. And that's why I asked you that build it, if they just build it, they will just come, right? And I think there's a certain degree of I don't want to call it arrogance, it's not really the right word, but it's also, they don't stop and think about how they purchase things online, right.

Drew: Hmm…hmm.

Marty: And I'm not talking about a book, I'm not talking about a roll of paper towels. I'm talking about things that are in your disposable income category. You know, I know for me a big golfer, right? So I, when I was, we were out in Colorado, I played golf the day before, and I used the service and the bag that they, they gave me, I loved. It was like; this is a really nice golf bag. And I went, I researched it and it's expensive, you know. I mean, it's kind of like a bag that you're going to have for a long time, but the quality and it was so good that I'm like; I wanted to learn more about it. And that's what I did. I spent, I didn't buy it yet. So now we're what, two weeks from there. [20:46.0]

Drew: Hmm.

Marty: So, but personal customer journey with that is they started sending me some emails about the different types of bags after I was on the site and I opted in. And I went through all that and I'm still learning about it because like, it's a, it's a big investment, so to speak for, you know, the golf repertoire, you know.

Drew: Ahh…haaa.

Marty: And I just, you know, I'm going through it and I'm thinking like, you know, this is an impulse buy, right. If I would buy it, I used it once I loved it, then I researched it. And now I'm two weeks in. Will, I buy it? Well, it's kind of like a bonus, if I do certain things in my business, I'm probably going to get this thing.

Drew: Hmm.

Marty: And then I'm like, Oh, I can customize it. So now I'm thinking, all right, so we've got maybe a Bad Rhino bag, you know, or maybe a Taps and Tees bag or golfing fanatics, or craft hop nation bag for the other brands that we work on. So I'm like starting to think that, but, you know, I don't think the way they built their site and the way they built their customer journey, that they're thinking somebody is going to go and spend, you know, anywhere from 600 to 1500 on a golf bag. And it's just going to be an instant buy. [21:57.0]

And I think that's important at every level, you know, even t-shirts seem to be getting down to that point where it's almost like you have a customer service rep or an in-store salesperson following you around and tapping you on the shoulder, so to speak and saying, Oh, can I help you? Can I help you make this decision? And I think that's what is lost sometimes in businesses being impatient going, we have to get online, we have to do this. And they're forgetting about what made them successful in the first place.

Drew: Very true.

Marty: Yeah. So what are you working on these days? You know, we're here in October of 2020, so we've had, you know, a pandemic, we've got everything else that goes on in an election year and all this other fun stuff. What have you been what do you have been working on, Drew? [22:46.0]

Drew: Lots of adjustments. So we've actually, one of the things I'm most excited about is really helping some of our local businesses, especially golf clubs adjust their revenue streams, cause at least here in California, wedding venues, catering venues, and many of the clubs, restaurants are closed. So it's really helping them with the tools that they have to add another revenue stream that they might not have thought of. So we've been doing a lot, we've been helping a few golf private clubs set up wine clubs for their members, which allows them to use the licenses that they already have since they do have an offsite permits to actually have hold kind of virtual tastings and set up a, a wine club program that's similar to what some of these wineries are using. And it's a double win for the, the golf club gets into that revenue stream. And then the members get that sort of a value add, knowing that they've, they're supporting the club, they're doing their minimum spend or their it's a way for them to do their minimum, spend in a time when the restaurants closed and get and get great wines. So we'd set up like a, a rating system where people can, they'll have like a happy hour where people can rate the different wines and kind of the, it's creates a community event at the club. So that's something we've been pretty excited with that and helping set up virtual tastings. It’s been a big shift.

Marty: Hmm…hmm. [24:09.0]

Drew: Since people can't come into some of these, to the winery tasting rooms, when you get the monthly club shipments or the, you know, the quarterly shipments will help the wine makers set up these virtual Zoom tastings, where they can walk through the, the wine club members and kind of taste wine in tandem with them, which has helped personalize that experience. It’s actually something that I think is going to stick around long after this pandemic is over. And that it's, it gives people a chance to reach out across the country, to their membership base that they wouldn't already, that they didn't do previously.

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: It goes far beyond that kind of written newsletter that used to come with your quarterly club shipments.

Marty: Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about the virtual tastings, cause I know people that listened to this, you know, have discussed it, have talked about it from a beer perspective, but talk about it, like what's been successful about it on the, on the wine side. [25:05.4]

Drew: So the idea is, yeah, you would send your monthly club or your quarterly club shipment, and then you'd set up a zoom meeting or a zoom time where all the club members could come on to this big zoom call. And then the wine maker, preferably it's the wine maker, but someone winery representative, maybe the owner will sit there and they'll taste through all the selections of the wines that are in the shipment. And then people can type in with their questions. So if you open up, people may not want to open up every bottle, but they'll at least get to hear all the the winemakers real time thoughts as he's tasting it. And then the people can ask questions about it. The other thing we've done is we've done a wine maker for a particular winery where the wine maker was also a chef. The wine maker like produced the recipe that was in the club booklet, so people could log on and people were cooking it, their homes in tandem with the wine maker who was also cooking the same recipe. And they were all drinking the same wine at the same time, which really helped create that sense of community and make people really feel like they're part of something. [26:12.5]

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: Cause a lot of times people visit a winery once on vacation. If you're in, you know, if you're in Pennsylvania, there's not, you may not visit Napa, but once every few years.

Marty: Right.

Drew: You might join that winery, but this gives all its members a way to like, feel close, close to that first experience that they had when they visited the winery.

Marty: Yeah, no, that makes total sense. And no, it's good that you're being able to do it and it's working because I think people like that interaction it's, you know, when you're drinking wine or alcohol in a healthy setting, you know, you're looking for that camaraderie.

Drew: Hmm…hmm.

Marty: And that interaction, you know, just, you just don't want to sit around and drink a bottle of wine. Although some days it feels that way, right. With everything that's going on, but no that's really good helping, helping them pivot that way. Talk a little bit just specifically on the golf front. And you mentioned some private clubs and things like that and their struggles and where you're based out in California, but is there anything that's been, you know, really eye-opening, tying both things together that you didn't expect. [27:13.3]

Drew: I need to think about that for a second. The eye-opening thing that is how quickly the clubs were able to embrace it.

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: Cause people, the membership was able to, they already have these clubs that we're working with already had a private membership base, and they were always looking for different, a different revenue stream and a different way to engage their members to provide value. So they're already used to having sort of a winemaker's dinner or there was always some sort of a wine aspect of these clubs. It wasn't like we just instilled, now you guys should start selling wine. There was already some sort of a wine culture.

Marty: Nice.

Drew: There's always some sort of a wine culture in these clubs and this actually brought it up and solidified it and made it a particular value add to the club that they can think and be proud of.

Marty: Absolutely. All right, so as we kind of close out this podcast, I asked everybody a couple of different questions. So I'm gonna start with a wine one, which I don't normally ask, but what's your like best or most favorite wine that you've ever had? Number one and then part two of that is like, what's the rarest wine that you've ever had or the oldest one? [28:19.1]

Drew: Let's see, I would say the one of the oldest ones would be a Gaston Huet 1947, Chenin Blanc.

Marty: Okay.

Drew: It's a sweeter one. And at the time I had it, it was about 60 years old.

Marty: Interesting.

Drew: And that was just phenomenal. Some of the, my favorite wines would be the Barolos from Piedmont area of Italy, that's a Nebbiolo would be the grape. I never, never shied away from one of those. Probably the most expensive would be Romanee Conti.

Marty: Okay.

Drew: That would be a red, burgundy, Pinot noir. We did a vertical back in back in the day. And that, that, that has to be the highest dollar total of wine that I drank in one night. But for pure enjoyment, I would say just a great Barolos is fantastic, but I love the you know, the shiraz of casa rogue. And I really liked the Pinot Noir Norris Oregon right now. [29:14.4]

Marty: All right, cool. How about just switching it up, like like beer wise, I know you drink beer, but anything stand out in the last say year or so that you tried that you're like, Oh, that was pretty solid.

Drew: Oh, I, I love beer.

Marty: I know you do

Drew: Locally, Societe Brewing Company here.

Marty: Okay. Yeah

Drew: IPAs fantastic, but I've got another not that I need not that I need another vice, but our local store here just started selling plenty of the older routine,

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: Russian River Valley.

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: I've never been able to get it. Maybe they started boosting production or something.

Marty: They did, yeah.

Drew: It's, it’s pretty tasty. [29:54.4]

Marty: We're lucky where I am in Philadelphia. I don't know the whole story, but there's a connection out here with Russian River and we get it out here. At first it was like you know, Oh my gosh, we're actually getting it. Then the second thing is, has been a little bit more regular over the past two years. One of the bars in town where I live in Westchester has it very regularly. And then there's another place in Philadelphia where I think that connection originated and they get it. And it is it's, I love, I like all Russian river beers for the most part. I think they're one of the tops in the country of what they do. And, you know, planning is when you put it out there, it's one of those ones that, it’s West Coast IPA, and it's every good as, you know, as advertised. I think it gets lost in the shuffle with so much of the craft beers that have come out over the years. But at the same time, I mean, it's, it's right up there and yeah, I could see how you could get “ kind of addicted” to that, if it's right there in your neighborhood. [30:56.5]

Drew: It's definitely in the rotation kind of switch between that. The other one Burgeon Beer Company is another local.

Marty: Okay.

Drew: Their Treevana it's another kind of what West coast IPA. Really

Marty: Yeah.

Drew: Like that.

Marty: Never had that. I like writing these down whenever I interview somebody. I'm like, all right.

Drew: (cross talk)

Marty: See what else is out there. So you work with golf, but do you play golf?

Drew: I used to play a lot.

Marty: Okay.

Drew: I got to the last, I had to quit for a few years because of a shoulder injury. And I was when we were together in Durango, I picked up that club. That was the first club I picked up in a couple of years.

Marty: I just remember that.

Drew: Right.

Marty: Yeah, I think I was standing right there.

Drew: You were, I was a little nervous. I'm like, Oh man, I hope nothing goes wrong, but I was able to take the swing. And I actually got that, you know, it really stoked the fire in me.

Marty: Hmm…hmm.

Drew: I, I need to make a goal to get back out there. [31:46.2]

Marty: Yeah. I mean, I think everybody goes through, I think what I should say is if there's an injury involved everyone goes through some fits and starts because you don't realize how many little muscles you use when you swing a golf club. And if you have something that's irritated, you quickly notice it. And you know, a ton of people, same boat Drew, you know, it's like I used to play a ton. Then I had like, you know, either use injury where they're overusing something or they heard something. And then, then they finally picked up a club again, and then it's off to the races. Cause it kind of just you'll love it and just kind of get in there. So I appreciate you coming on today and tell everybody where they can find you.

Drew: You can find me at chatwithdrew.com.

Marty: There you go.

Drew: It’s the easiest way to book a meeting with me. Or you can also find me @DrewHendricks on Twitter.

Marty: All right.

Drew: It's my Twitter address and websites, nimbletoad.com. [32:42.1]

Marty: Perfect. All that'll be in the show notes. And you know, I think everybody, if you got this far in the podcast for listening and you know, I've been bringing these people on for the past few months, just to give you different ideas about your marketing, where you might want to take it. And Drew definitely knows his stuff. If you're in wine or really anything that you see on nimble toad, you know, reach out to him, he's got a wealth of knowledge and he knows what he's doing. And that's the only people I've been bringing on, people I either work with people. I've hired people that I've interacted with on a, on a level that's just not, you know, passing it, just bringing people on that truly know, and they care about their clients and customers. So if you do need something and you like what drew had to say, and it fits your business, definitely reach out to drew@nimbletoad.com or the other things you just mentioned, that'll all be in the show notes. And you know, just like I said, in closing these last, you know, 10, 12 episodes, you know, we're going to get back to beer and golf, but in this whole pandemic thing, I thought it was more important to get some people in here that do intersect with craft beer and with golf, as well as just have a wealth of marketing knowledge. So we'll see you on the next episode of taps and tees as we wind down 2020, thankfully, and head on into 2021. So thanks Drew again for coming on and thanks everybody for listening. [33:58.9]

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