Welcome to the Making of a DM. Marketing and investing in yourself, not only that, I have a special guest that's done millions and millions and millions of dollars in business and we're going to share some very, very powerful tips, strategies and techniques to help you grow and expand your business. So with that said, let's get started.
Mark: What's up everybody, it's your host Mark Evans DM. Here today the show is going to be a little bit different, so I appreciate you guys being here. And again, before we get started I just wanted to say thank you guys so much as you're listening to this show and sharing it with your friends, colleagues and people you care about, and more importantly, people you don't, because you're going to send it to them and they're going to quit talking to you, which that's all we want. [0:01:16.0]
So again guys, keep sharing the show, keep giving the great feedback over on iTunes, it helps us get more rankings, more eyeballs and people and ears to listen to the show so we can all connect and grow. But today guys, we're going to talk about a couple subject matters, marketing and investing in yourself. You know I'm a huge fan of both and I want to kind of bring on a guest here today I have, his name is Jeremy Blunt, from Wisconsin. What's up, JB?
Jeremy: Hey Mark, how you doing, bud?
Mark: Good man, hey, I appreciate you being here. I know you're going to kind of chime in in and out because having a show as we're growing and developing, we're trying to be most valuable, more importantly I think the biggest thing is getting an insight from a person instead of me just rambling and talking and screaming at people, having someone from the outside kind of chime in and help maybe tighten it down, give a little bit more direction to the individual listener. Right? [0:02:09.2]
Jeremy: I agree, I'll hop on where I can.
Mark: Awesome, man. No matter what business you're in, at the end of the day we're in the marketing and sales business. So as you're sitting there you might be thinking, "Well Mark, I want to do real estate." or, "Mark, I'm in supplement business." or, "Mark, I do this or that." That might be what business are but you're in, but you're not going to be in business at all if you're not going marketing and sales. So many people are learning the products so much, they're trying to get things right before they get it going. My buddy Mike always says you don't have to get it right, just it get started. But what happens is you can fall into procrastination mode, and curiosity, by the way, has never kill the cat. That statement is false. Curiosity without execution will kill your soul though. [0:03:02.4]
You have to always be executing. Everybody I know, including Jeremy, anybody we know is all too curious. Right, Jeremy? Like we're looking at what's working in marketing, what's not working, we're always curious to learn something new every day. Is that a fair statement?
Jeremy: Absolutely. Always got to be growing.
Mark: Always growing. So it's like curiosity is a good thing but we've been thought an age like curiosity killed the cat. Well I don't know where you live, but I haven't seen any cats dead around here. But as business owners and entrepreneurs are people growing their life, curiosity is a very good thing and it's something that excites me. I get excited about curiosity, about learning what's working, what's not, how to implement it in my business, in my day or my life and all that. So let's talk about marketing today, and then we'll get to the next subject, but marketing to me, I see so many people doing it wrong. Jeremy is a really, really good copywriter, marketer, but also there's other layers to this because marketing is many different platforms. Right? [0:04:05.5]
From what you wear, i.e. your costume by the way. If you guys know me, I have always have a white tango on, a crazy shirt, flip flops.
Jeremy: Rolls Royce.
Mark: Rolls Royce, cigars, all the stuff.
Jeremy: Nice watch.
Mark: Yeah, nice watch, this is all marketing, this is very conscious decision making for marketing. I wasn't that smart in the begging. Knowing what I know now I would have been a lot more strategic about it, but now that I know I'm definitely strategic about it. I know how to position, like Ronald McDonald, you know what he looks like, he's a marketing piece for McDonald's obviously. I mean we could go down the line, everyone has a costume. As we're marketing we need to be thinking about what kind of marketing channels are you in. Online, email marketing, online visual marketing through videos on YouTube, Instagram, image ads, newspapers, Facebook advertising, Google Ad Words. The list is endless. [0:05:05.1]
I mean marketing's everywhere. Billboards, which I don't recommend. That's more of an ego thing, your buddies are like, "Dude, I saw you on a billboard." or the benches at the bus stop where I don't know why you ever want your face on a bench at a bus stop. Like seriously, like the only thing that's happening on those benches are stuff that we probably don't want to be associated with. So you know, maybe a condom company or a drug rehab center would be good for those. Right, J?
Jeremy: That's right.
Mark: There's different things like what do you want your brand to mean and what do you want it to stand for. I just have a big monster truck Jeremy, you remember that. I used to have a monster truck.
Jeremy: Monster limo.
Mark: Monster limo, 36 ft long truck, had an 8 foot bed that never had to be made, inside it had TV. You know, it's a limo, it's a huge limo, tires are 4 ft tall, it was awesome. That was a branding thing, we were going events to the house and we're talking about monster profits, monster truck, monster profit, X, Y, Z, big house, big truck, big opportunity. [0:06:11.1]
These things mean things by the way in marketing. Right? If I pulled up in a Fiat and/or monster truck, which one's getting me attention? The monster truck by far. So our job as marketers are to stand out, especially now, it's never been harder to stand out of the crowd because there's so much noise. So this is why it's important like i.e. a podcast show, this is marketing by the way. Right? I'm not selling anything, but I am selling me, which you want to listen to and then you take this information and maybe three years from now, three days from now or never I have something that might value you. You know we have multiple companies, you might be a buyer of one of our products. There's a real estate company, the media company, supplement company or anything else I'm associated with. There could be an opportunity there. But what are you doing in your marketing where I see a lot, a lot of people doing it wrong is they're trying to make the sale in the marketing. [0:07:05.3]
Jeremy, you've seen there's a million times too, like trying to accelerate, like they're going to post card to buy house that says "We buy houses, call now so I can buy your house". What's your take on that, because I think it's totally wrong. Does it work, the answer's sometimes, but for like a big scalability it's a very tough model to try to complete the transaction via marketing. Would you agree?
Jeremy: I agree. I think the biggest thing in marketing is just to build a relationship with your potential buyer or client over the long term, so it's going to take multiple touches on either Facebook or like you said a postcard or text message or email before they actually "can I trust you". They can know you and like you and they'll ultimately pull the trigger in business with you. That's my take on it.
Mark: It's how we've met. I was marketing online guys, real quick, I met Jeremy, this is before the Facebook and all these other amazing marketing platforms existed, but I was always doing webinars. [0:08:06.8]
Actually back then it was tele-calls, audio only and emails, email marketing. So Jeremy found an add one me in 2005-ish, he reached out to me and we connected in late 2005, early 2006, and he literally went all in. I mean we actually had a conversation i.e. relationship building, I was building a relationship on a global scale through the webinar, the tele-calls and the emails, but then the goal was marketing, is to extract the people that are interested in come into another layer of your funnel or relationship funnel and then take it to the next step if you're selling coaching or selling seminars, events, if you're selling a product, whatever it is, like you want to have stages for this stuff. Say, "If you're ready now, call me here." or, "Hey, if you're ready now go to ___.com and fill out the form and I'll call you." That's the process and that's how you and I met.
Jeremy: Absolutely, yeah (yes). [0:08:57.7]
Mark: It's 2019, and I still don't like this guy but he's still here. He won't leave me alone, he's like that thing I got in Cancun that one year. Sorry. But as we're like sitting here talking about this stuff, like Jeremy, like you and I, we had a conversation, you invested in yourself, so the marketing message was hitting you and you're like, "This is it, this is going to help me." and then you made an investment in yourself. I think it was... Was it mentoring? Was I mentoring you, was that what it was?
Jeremy: It was probably, actually it was. Initially I did the drop it in your lap program and then there was a deal that fell apart with somebody, but like I was so... I mean I'm all in personality, that's kind of how I am. I burned all my ships, and after that deal fell apart, I reached out you, I was like, "Dude, I still want to do this. Show me the way." And you mentioned you did have a mentoring program and you mentioned the amount, I think it was $5000. I was like, "Dude, I'm in." I think I was 24 or 25 at the time and I didn't have that kind of money, didn't come from like a rich family. [0:10:05.5]
I think I got a credit card and that helped me. You get a credit card with 0% for like 18 months or whatever, so I took out that credit card and I bought mentoring through you and I started to do real estate deals actually.
Mark: That's awesome. A couple very interesting things like that Jeremy, I don't know, we've talked a lot obviously many many thousands of times since then, but a lot of times, like Jeremy literally had zero money. He used a credit card to pay for this. Right, J? So the reason I bring that up is because a lot of guys come to me and they're like, "Mark, I don't want to take the guy's last five grand." And again, the problem with that question or conversation is and my first instinct is, "Well do you not believe in your product or do you not believe in your service or do you not believe what you're going to teach them is going to help them?" That's more on you than the individual that's ready to make the decision because now you're trying to play God if you will. If I take Jeremy's last $5000 from his credit card and I don't perform or provide value, that's on me, but Jeremy is going to feel the effect of that. Right? [0:11:07.0]
You're not going to make money and pay your bills and I'm going to have five extra grand and I'm going to be, you know, kind of karma is going to come back and snag me one day. But for that moment it was like, "Man listen, I know my shit, I know I can help this guy and how he pays for it and where the money comes from is on him, not me." I think that's what a lot of times people get scared about is when you're growing it's like you got to stop thinking about the other person necessarily of how X, Y, Z is going to happen. Come with your value and let them say yes or no. It's up to them, not up to us. That's kind of weird side-subject story, but a lot of buddies of mine over the years that have been courses are like, "I don't want to take their last dollar." Well maybe that's what they need to actually get them moving forward. Maybe this is the best investment they'll ever make in their life. I mean Jeremy, you and I have literally known each other for 13+ years, we've done, man, I mean dude, how many things have we done together? I mean shit, I don't even know. [0:12:05.4]
Jeremy: It's endless, man. Endless. Definitely the best $5000 I ever spent. I mean you introduced me to a whole new world. Again, I think that goes both ways. Since I did spend that five G's and I had to pay that back, it's like it forced me to like bust my ass and like really actually implement the things you were teaching me. I had like actual skin in the game. You know what I mean? I mean it forced me to actually work and do what I was supposed to do. And actually make money.
Mark: I know, man. It's so wild how we think sometimes the value, like the truth is I didn't value myself like I value myself now. I wouldn't do anything for $5000 today. It's like my value increased when my client's value increase. It wasn't just me, I actually had to get actual results, I had to have conversation, I had to do. I have hundreds, if not thousands of clients all over the country that have taken my $1000, $5000 events or whatever, but again, all this shit started from basic marketing 101. [0:13:08.9]
You know what I mean? So like in real estate, that's how it all started guys, I started doing real estate investing, probably like event number five or six or seven, somewhere around there, I realized I already knew enough about real estate where I saw everyone having a problem was marketing and business building, so I stopped going to real estate events and started going to like understanding direct response marketing trough Dan Kennedy, Matt Fury, guys like Yanik Silver, I started going to all these events and then the internet. The internet stuff. There was this guy named Brian I went to, I paid him $50,000 for one day to learn how to do internet marketing, and thank God I did because it changed my life. So all these things, like these are stages but they had to market to get me into the door. You have to understand that marketing is everywhere, it's happening literally more now than any, if you know it or not, it's happening right now if you're listening to the show, things on your phone are popping up probably and ads, depending what website you're on. [0:14:09.2]
You're seeing things when you're driving down the road listening to this, billboard signs, band signs that say "we buy houses" or "mattress for sale" or whatever it says. That's marketing, and then you're like, "Oh wow." And then you got to start understanding that anybody listening to this should go buy every book Dan Kennedy's ever written and start learning about how to do direct response marketing. Would you agree, J?
Jeremy: 100% man, 100%. As well as... Who's that other guy that you're buddies with? Jay Conrad?
Mark: Oh yeah, Jay Conrad Levinson back in the day, he's passed away now since, but you're talking Guerrilla Marketing?
Jeremy: Yeah.
Mark: Great book.
Jeremy: I'm not sure where most of these listeners are right in their remarking ability, so I like it you know he's kind of like an old school guy where it's kind of onesie-twosy. I don't know if his books are online, but I think it's a great place to start.
Mark: Yeah, no, listen, all these books are online on Amazon, you guys can buy them, but you know, marketing to me, there's different types of marketing. [0:15:03.1]
There's push marketing and pull marketing, right? My marketing out there is pull marketing, it could be a sign in the yard that says, like for example if you ever see a real estate agent sign that says "for sale" with the agent's name and number, that's pull market. You're going to see the sign, you going to pick it up, you're going to call them. "Hey, I was calling about this property. Yeah, okay, great, what's your name?" Marketing step one of the process, the problem is like I said earlier, where I see more people that sign would say, "Buy my house, $85,000, call me now to buy." as opposed to like, "Give me a call, let's have a conversation, see if this house even fits your qualifying needs. Get to know me. Let me know about you. Tell me what you've got going on, tell me how much you have to spend, how quickly are you looking to move." All these sayings. Or on weight loss. Right? Maybe someone's trying to get healthier and they're like, "Dude, I'm gaining so much weight I don't know why." Well let's have a conversation about that because we're all created differently. Maybe you have too much intake of this or maybe you're not doing enough workout, or maybe both, but that all comes to conversation. [0:16:03.1]
So if I say, "Free 15 minute consultation, give me a call at X." Boom, get them on the phone, have a conversation and serve them. There's so many books on sales out there, I mean I've read so many I'm still learning how to sell, but you know, selling, but providing value, value proposition selling is the easiest way to sell. Jeremy, I'm not a hardcore sales guy, I know you're not either. Right? That's not our style.
Jeremy: No, absolutely not. I mean a lot of the pieces that I do where you offer something that's, I don't want to say of no value, but initially it's a free product or a video series in exchange for someone's information like a phone number or in my case, an email. Then I give them obviously what I promised them, and during that message or what not, I slowly offer them like another service so I kind of up-sell them to actually spend money with me. Very not invasive way to get the sale.
Mark: Well it's like dating, right? You guys have all seen the free books. "For free book put your name, email and information, all I ask you to do is pay shipping and handling." $5 or whatever it is. If you don't believe paying $5 for an amazing book is worth it, you should not be listening to any show, you should probably just go back to work and live a shitty life like in all seriousness. Like I see people, "Dude, I thought you said that's a free book." [0:17:24.5]
Jeremy: That's insane.
Mark: It is a free book, I don't own the fucking UPS store. Someone's got to ship this thing, not me. Why would I pay for your shit that you're not even going to read? You're probably going to use it a door holder. You know? But then again guys, it's okay to have those people say that shit because those are the people you don't want in your funnel, because they don't get it, they never will get it, and my job is not to get them to get it. It's on them, not me. But our marketing message, just like I just... By the way, what I just said is a marketing message to you. If you don't think it's worth it, shut this show down and go fucking somewhere else, because I'm not for you. That's okay, it's called a line in the sand marketing conversation. When you put a line in the sand and say, "Hey, if you're great ,you're smart and you got this and do this and want to be here, and/or if you're a shitty person, be over there." It's okay as a marketer, the truth is you'll make more money by being more bold. Right? [0:18:21.9]
Jeremy: Agreed. Not for everybody, looking for somebody. Right?
Mark: Yeah (yes), exactly. And when you become something for everybody, you become nobody.
Jeremy: Exactly.
Mark: How the hell could you talk to a male/female bodybuilder marketplace in the same exact way? It's impossible. I'd say two different messages that can communicate with them, we all have different needs and wants and emotions and feelings and we want different types of results, you're not going to be talking, I keep using the workout side, you're not going to talking to a female bodybuilder that's trying to bigger arms about how to improve their leg, how to improve their squat leg by 700 pounds. It's called market mismatch. [0:19:01.4]
You're just burning money and wasting money, it's called avatar, you've got to find your avatar. Who are you talking to. So for example, I'm going to keep talking about a couple different niches, but real estate investing. When we send out a postcard, we're sending 10,000 pieces, we're not trying to get 5000 people calling us. That would never be good for anybody, because that means we're too broad of a marketer. Like for example the message would have to say, "Give me a call and I'll give you a million dollars for making the call." That would be stupid. Right? But our message is more like, "Hey, if you're going through a divorce, if you're frustrated with your tenant" one or the other by the way, it'd be very direct, that's why it's called direct marketing. We know if you're going through a divorce, because we have the words records. We know if you have bad tenants because you're in tenant court with these people. You're in eviction court. So we're going to be very direct, "Sick of your tenants? We take over these problems" Whatever, and then all the sudden, "Yes, I'm sick of my fucking tenants, I want to kill them. They're not paying their bills or trashing my property." [0:20:04.0]
And then all of a sudden that's emotional triggers. You trigger them up and all of a sudden, boom, what's the solution. "Give me a call, let me let me make you an offer." or something of that effect, and now they call, you conversate, you calm down and you present the offer that makes sense for both parties. That's what real marketing is, as opposed to blanket marketing, "I buy your house, cash, seven days, give me a call." Dude, like seriously? Like this is why you're frustrated on your KPI numbers when you're like, "Dude, my conversion rate sucks." Well the reason your conversion rate sucks is because you have shitty front end marketing. Your conversion rate should be massive on the back side because you're very direct to the market. Jeremy on our side, I mean we do marketing every day, you do tons of marketing, and Jeremy what I'm really talking about too it's not just marketing, it's about copy inside of the marketing material. Right? [0:20:59.3]
Jeremy: Absolutely, it's got to be worded that it resonates with the actual read. You know what I mean? I was always taught not to use like textbook-type material, like always write and try and convey your message in a very conversational tone. If that makes sense.
Mark: Sure.
Jeremy: It pulls so much better than something that's very structured and old school.
Mark: I agree, man. I think, guys, again, on marketing, first of all, people, Jeremy, will come to us all the time and be like, "Will this work?" Test it, we don't know. It's all about market testing. If you're not willing to put dollars into this stuff you're never going to know. We've wasted so much money over the years, but we've never really wasted it, because we're always learning from it. If we sent out 1000 postcards like this or 1000 postcards like that, that's data, we're going to take those data points and say, "Wow, this one really killed it, this one didn't. Why? What can we change?" And then in marketing you don't want to change 18 things at the same time, you want to change one thing and put it back out. [0:22:02.9]
If it works, okay great, of it doesn't, okay, now we change that, now we want to change this. Maybe it's your call to action, maybe it's your emotional pieces, maybe it's your conversation tone, maybe it's your headline, maybe it's the ad. Guys, and this is a true story, maybe your phone number is not right. If you get a 0% response rate, maybe your phone number is wrong. This has happened to me multiple times over the years. We sent out a piece, I'm like, "Dude, just bombed. Why?" We're looking at it, we're like, "Oh my God, we have the wrong phone number on it." So you just never know. There's a lot of moving pieces here, but marketing is all about testing. And the truth is marketing changes. It's always evolving, people are growing, and how I market to cold is probably not how we're going to market you warm. What did you say, J?
Jeremy: I was just agreeing.
Mark: Guys, just so you know, cold marketing is someone who doesn't even know you exist. That might be "free plus shipping to learn how to make a million dollars in two minutes doing nothing", boom, you get them in there, now they're in your funnel. [0:23:08.4]
And then warm marketing, you're like, "Hey Jeremy thank you very much for getting the book, I really appreciate it. I know it's been six weeks since you've gotten it, I wanted to give you two, three extra special reports to help make it work better for, you and if you have any questions at any time feel free to reach out to me or call me or schedule an appointment." or whatever. So it's very conversational, very story selling, story selling, not storytelling. Right, J?
Jeremy: Absolutely, I love that.
Mark: Yeah (yes), so you're story selling into them and you're communicating with them. By the way everyone listening, is marketing all the time. If you ever post those social media, you're marketing. Ever. The question is the marketing serving you or hurting you. When you're posting like, "Dude, my neighbor's dog won't shut up. What do I do?" You're marketing, but you sound like a dumb ass by the way. Right? The thing is use social media as platforms, these are platforms to get exposure, exposure equals revenue if you know how to monetize it. [0:24:08.5]
So be posting stuff. If you follow me on Instagram @MarkEvansDM or Facebook you'll see me constantly talking about deals, events, opportunities, etc, and you'll see how we do the conversation format. Jeremy helps me with all that writing on that stuff, because he's a very good copywriter. I kind of kind of everything he knows... No, I'm joking, but he knows what he's doing, he knows how to conversate to extract. What's that?
Jeremy: I said you taught me quite a bit, though.
Mark: Yeah, well I mean two things is a lot. It is what it is.
Jeremy: All I can handle, man.
Mark: It's two more than the last week.
Jeremy: Yeah. And something else too is in regards to social media, as I'm sure most everyone knows as lot of people are posers online and they show all their whims, as you say, but I think it's, one of the biggest things in my opinion that someone can do to stand out, and I read this in number of articles is you gotta be like authentic. [0:25:05.4]
Show your losses, show when you fall down, like share like stupid shit about your day that gets people to actually know who you are as a person, don't just constantly show like the same shit over and over where you're making money and doing deals or heading out to the club, etc, etc. Like you've got to show them like every aspect of your life. I think that's so crucial. I mean it just gets people actually, again, like you, trust you and get to know you enough and want to do business with you. I think that's huge.
Mark: Yeah. I mean Jeremy any time we do a post; we're talking about vulnerability right, from the inside out?
Jeremy: Exactly, yeah.
Mark: Is one of my buddies recently posted about how seven years ago he had no money in the bank, he was literally taking a bike to work because he couldn't afford the gas in the car to go.
Jeremy: The beach, right?
Mark: The beach. And then now today he just bought an awesome multi-million dollar house.
Jeremy: That was an awesome post, by the way.
Mark: Amazing post, right?
Jeremy: That was amazing, fantastic. [0:26:02.1]
Mark: It's his most engaged posed by double, double and a half. Most engaged. 300 comments, 1000+ likes, multiple shares because what we forget guys is if you're winning, winning, winning, winning, the person reading your post cannot relate. First of all you're fucking lying to the world if you think you're winning every day, because that doesn't exist anywhere. And secondly, why can't we share the struggle through conversation and then talk about how you're pushing forward. What are you doing...
Jeremy: That's what people want.
Mark: Yeah, they want to know.
Jeremy: They want to see it.
Mark: Like, "Dude, my life is shitty right now, how do I build confidence?" Well here's how I do it. When I was down in the dumps and I was living on my friend's couch and this happened and that happened, boom, like share that shit, people absolutely love it, and it's relatable.
Jeremy: Absolutely, man. If that's the biggest thing someone can take away from this call, I sweat to God, that's number one. So big, just be real, be authentic, show everything. Wins and losses. [0:27:01.5]
Mark: Wins and losses. If you have a tragic moment in your life like bankruptcy maybe and you're teaching people about financial freedom, if you're talking about fat loss and you were 400 pounds and now you're 180, fit, lean, like people, first of all I want you guys to think about this, don't close your eyes because you're probably driving in the car, running on treadmill, that'd kind of funny to watch on the treadmill, but think about anybody you connect with. You know their story, dude. You know their story. Their story, and it's not their story, they win, win, win, Michael Jordan win. The reason you know Michael Jordan is you know the story he struggled all the time. He had tough time to, you know he worked really hard, he was sick during the championship. Like you know a lot about his negative story that drove him to become a better player.
Jeremy: That's in his basketball, team?
Mark: Yeah, exactly. Anybody you are close with in your mind through marketing is the worry, the narrative. First of all, we all have a narrative going on, the question is are you controlling it and maximizing it, and ultimately monetizing it. Right? [0:28:04.4]
You want to share with people, this is part of becoming a deal maker, is you got to be talking to people, let them know your story. Like I grew up in a trailer since I was 10. Jeremy, I just shared that yesterday on Instagram, right? About the trailer I grew up in, this is what it looked like. And now like I don't live in anything remotely close like this, but I get it, I know where you're at. I was there X amount of years ago. It was tough, but my family were amazing people, but they always fought about money. These are true stories by the way, these are not bullshit stories, they are real, but with marketing you want to kind of create a conversation with the listener or the viewer to share with them, you want to tap into their emotional aspect through marketing. And when you do that you can really connect with them, because if not guys, there's so much noise they don't even hear you. So if you're like, "No one's listening to me." Well it's probably because you're posing. They don't care about your fake Rolex. And if you do have a fake Rolex, shame on you, you should be talking about, "This one time I thought it was a good idea to buy a fake Rolex and then I discovered this." [0:29:01.8]
That's when real things happen, because that's a mindset piece by the way, it's a mindset sale conversation." And then every time you share these stories they get to know you more, more, more. Jeremy, I still meet people all the time and they know my story better than I do sometimes, for real. They say like, "Dude, I remember..."
Jeremy: It's a good story, man.
Mark: Yeah, exactly. They'll remember like very detailed things, because what we forget as marketers or business owners is that there's so many people in this world going through so many different things at this moment. Right? Like literally I don't know the number, but it's thousands and thousands of people today are being told they're going to die of cancer. That's a big story, that's a big message, and that's a very big life impacting moment. Not for the person being told it, but also the people they got to tell that love them the most. So like you're sitting there and you're communicating with people, you're trying to market to everyone as they're the same, you know, but you can talk directly into that conversation. That's very emotional, that's very real, very raw, very authentic. Go figure. Being authentic actually sells. [0:30:04.4]
So there's people right now, you know, during the draft that are coming into more money than they've ever seen in their entire life. In football, in baseball draft, these young kids are generating tens of millions of dollars. Not only will it affect their life, it's going to affect their families and friends' life. There's lawyers involved in that, there's brokers, there's a lot of pieces here. So we got to remember, like there's a lot of life things going on in people's lives. Maybe you live in California, we buy houses in Ohio, we market to you and your mom and dad lived here, they passed away now. And we're like, doing an estate process is very tough. You're in California, you're building your life, you have three kids, a dog and a cat and you're trying to grow your family, your career, the last thing you want to be doing is flying back to Ohio to try take care of $100,000 house. So we know that, so we're going to talk into that conversation, say, "Listen, it's about money and it's also about convenience and time and energy and effort. Like we're here to make your life easy. If you want a quick sale, fast cash, close in seven days or less give us a call. We're here to conversate about this. [0:31:08.1]
And then you can talk directly to them, because their problem's not just money, their problem is convenience, quickness, now. Right? And by the way, this works with all products, not just real estate or supplements or anything like that. This works with any and everything. And you don't have to believe me, go to the movie theater and see how much a charge for a water, see how much the charge for popcorn, see how much they charge for candy. Candy's $6 for the little box of candy that you can go right next door to Target and get for $1.80. Why? Because they're marketing. They know you're there, you're vulnerable and you're ready to buy something good to relax and enjoy the day. If you're thirsty, you're in the middle of the desert, you have a $100 bill in your pocket, a guy walks up to you and says, "Hey, I got a bottle of water." You like, "I'm in." Does price even matter at that point, because that's what we're talking about now, like price. No, it's convenient, it's quick, it's right now, it's supplying a solution to the problem immediately. And that's really what people want. Right, J? [0:32:07.3]
Jeremy: Agreed.
Mark: So guys, marketing, you have to be doing marketing. One thing I would caution is don't try to do hundreds of strategies of marketing. Don't be in 14 different environments, and when I say that I'm talking about Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, email marketing, Ad Sense, AdWords, whatever. Don't be in 20 different places, pick one or two and really become great at it. Because once you see it works, like you can make a lot, a lot, a lot of money with a couple cool strategies, direct mail, email marketing. So marketing stuff that I do and I know Jeremy's done is email marketing. We do that every day. Me and Jeremy, he's in a company that does that every day. Your company does daily, right, J?
Jeremy: Yeah. We email each day, I mean I think in total maybe around 20-30 million emails a month.
Mark: So guys, hear that again. 20 or 30 million emails a month. We send about 500,000 emails a month give or take. Jeremy, you're opting in, I think recently you had a pretty big day of over 10,000 new leads come in in the day. [0:33:12.1]
So there's a lot of people in this world, this planet, and I know when you're in the beginning stages you're thinking, "Who would listen to me? Why would they buy from me? That's more about you than the reality of it. The truth is you need to start reading mindset marketing books. Mindset is a very big key to all this. Why wouldn't they buy from you if you solve their problem? That's the question I'd ask myself. Why wouldn't they click on that video if the video connected with them? Why wouldn't they buy the free plus shipping book if I was actually providing amazing value? Are you worth free? I mean that's why you're selling a free book. You know what I mean? If you sat down and wrote a book and it took you a year to write this thing, isn't that worth a dollar? Free or whatever?? It's a good lead generator. So never stop marketing. Jeremy, I'll never stop marketing, I don't know about you. [0:34:03.1]
Jeremy: Yeah, no, same here. I often quote that line from Tommy Boy at the wedding "You're either growing or you're dying. There ain't no third direction." and I think it's the same with marketing. I know it happened in one of my past businesses is I stopped growing and that thing blew up in my face like bad and I lost a bunch, and it's all because I literally, I got content, I stopped marketing, I stopped trying to expand, and once I started to fall apart, like I could not stop the momentum, like I said, it fell apart. Always got to keep growing, always got to keep testing and moving forward.
Mark: Yeah, I think Gary Halpert, he's a famous copywriter, he's kind of always famous for saying "you're only one sales page away from anything you want". The Beatles, you know, they're like, they wrote, they're like, "Hey, I want a swimming pool in my back yard." and they're famous for saying, "Let's write a song to buy a pool." You could create. That's marketing, right? [0:35:04.0]
You create something to earn revenue, that's what marketing does, it creates conversations that earn revenue. Now we're not just marketing the market, maybe get on your local TV station, maybe create an infomercial, maybe you go out and drive. Let's talk about that, because some of you guys, like you guys realize like Coca-Cola, Pepsi, McDonald's, Burger King, and all these companies are still marketing on billboards, on TV commercials, on football games and all that. Why? It's not because they don't need to by the way, they have to. They realize people, especially in today's day and age, brand loyalty is limited at best. And not only that, our span of this is so... Like someone could steal you as a consumer, customer in a second as soon as you stop, and they know that, that's why they're all over the place, and then you, maybe us could say, "Yeah, but that's easy for them because they make billions of dollars a year." and that's a bullshitting answer, because at one point they didn't make billions of dollars year and they still had to market. [0:36:00.1]
There's no company that got big by not marketing is what I'm saying. So what are you doing to market? Say if you're brand new, like are you going to trade shows, are you standing outside in a costume waving a sign that says "try my new flavored shake", I don't know, whatever you're company in. What are some good very guerrilla marketing style marketing techniques, Jeremy, in today's day and age? Besides just basic just posting on social for free?
Jeremy: I mean obviously it depends on what niche you're in. Obviously if you're in supplements or the health, I'm not sure like how good like a bandit sign can do. Personally me, I'd start on Facebook. Like I don't care like who you are, I mean you can start with $5 a day, you can change it down, the demographic, down to age, location, likes and interests, all that stuff. So I would literally start on probably Facebook, start at $5 a day, post whatever, like a video, a message, just to get people to actually contact you. Again, I don't know if you're in real estate or in the health business or anything, but I would start on Facebook and start testing. [0:37:07.5]
Mark: I mean this is what it's about, it's testing. Like when we say "test", guys, I mean so like for $5, still talking about Facebook, I'm not as technical as Jeremy is and kind of understand Facebook like he does, but like to me in my mind, say if you're in the supplement, it might not be a bandit sign, but you might be able to go out in front of a big convention, a supplement convention going and saying, "Hey, free supplements, follow me at ...com" or, "Come over here, free workout plan or free weight loss plan." depending what kind of company it is or what they're trying to do, and you can start attracting, set up a booth. You can hand out flyers, you could get people dressed up, your local college kids and paid internship or a free internship for going out there. Red Bull did a good job with this, like the Red Bull girls when they had the Red Bull trucks and all that stuff. Remember that?
Jeremy: They still do this, they promote it all the time. [0:38:00.0]
Mark: Yeah, I mean again, because that category's grown so big, there's so many different types of companies in that space now, like they should be out there more. They almost have to be out there more because they're losing traction. But one thing guys, all this stuff is like find some market leaders, maybe you have, I was talking with the guys, Jeremy, a couple days ago on Wednesday, and his wife has 200 something thousands on Instagram. I'm like, "Dude, this is amazing." In my mind I'm like how do you take them from Instagram and put them on an email list. Right? The way to do that is the market, is make sure to, "Your booty blast, get over to ...com to get the best booty in town" or whatever. Whatever her marketplace wants. Then you take them 200,000, now you got 30,000 in email. I think the biggest thing we're marketing, is not all marketing channels are created equal and are controllable, because let's say if you're on Instagram or Facebook 100% and they go down. Well if it goes down or gets shut down for whatever reason or flag, you're out of business. [0:39:00.3]
Jeremy: That's happened many times. In the last business I was at, we were in a gun niche, and we solely advertised on Facebook, which is not a good idea since they're pretty liberal. And even though we didn't sell guns or ammunition or weapons, it was really like a gun safe, our ads in our entire county, it would randomly get shut down because of compliance issue. And again, all we're doing is literally selling a gun safe. Once they shut our account down, we get no sales for day and there we are sitting around, our employees are standing around, manufacturers standing around because we have no sales coming in so there's nothing to make and there's nothing to do. That's probably the main reason I got out of that business, is we tried to build a business in someone else's backyard, and that's Facebook. And that's one of the main reasons I love emails, because you literally control everything. You are the platform.
Mark: Exactly. I mean obviously there's email principles and practices you want to follow to do the right stuff guys, so we're not saying go rogue and just start hammering people, but like picture for these 200,000 on Instagram and you can drive them to ...com and now 30,000 people are in your email environment, you're always in business. Email shuts you down, you go to a new platform and email, you email within the next 24 hours. Instagram cuts your account or freezes it or deletes it, like what do you do? [0:40:21.9]
Jeremy: You're screwed.
Mark: You're screwed. Same thing with Facebook, so you always need to be bringing people back to your home base, i.e. your email list and build trust report relationship with them, talk to them, get YouTube videos. If you're doing YouTube videos drive them to your email list. Like you want to have them, because again, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, they all own and control and manage your lead at that point. Until they're in your environment, they're just followers. They're not loyal, they can't be in your group. So you've got to constantly be thinking about how to reverse engineer your marketing plan to help people learn more about you. So like for example in Jeremy's business, if you had a big emails list, Facebook shuts them down, then literally could go straight to email and say, "Special one safes." Now they're back in business, they're selling... Literally it's happening within nano minutes, you know, within minutes. [0:41:16.4]
Jeremy: Yes, that's correct. I'll say something we didn't do at the time, so as soon as our account got shut down, it was just pure crisis mode, we're trying to contact our rep at Facebook and trying the account turned back on. There was no plan B, there was no email list besides those buyers. Literally controlled our entire company, which definitely is extremely scary.
Mark: You're living on the edge 24/7, like you're on pins and needles. And you're not even doing anything wrong, it's the matter of them changing something internally. You have a 23 year old kid that can push a button and you're out of business.
Jeremy: Exactly.
Mark: He didn't even mean to push it, he probably was sneezing or looking somewhere where he shouldn't be looking and hit the wrong button.
Jeremy: Yeah, scary. [0:42:00.6]
Mark: But again, like on email marketing, guys, that never happens. I love direct mail too. Direct mail's a little bit heavier, you have to understand marketing a little bit better, but depending what niche you're in it's a really good piece to use. Postcard are around $0.50 a piece for send out, you can get very detailed with today technology and data provided out there. You got to buy the data, prep the data, create the pieces and test them. So it's a little bit heavier but it definitely works. That's why I like it, it's scalable, it's very systematic and it's been around for a long time and I think it's going to be around a lot longer too. It doesn't change its algorithms, there's not algorithm changing whole direct mail. As you guys are growing, really it's so powerful, guys, if you're listening to this while marketing, you got to keep marketing, you got to be in front of your prospect. Even with your email list, you should be emailing two, three, four times a week at least, connecting with them, edutaining as we like to call it. Educate, entertain and extract at the same time. Stop trying to marry them on the first date, have a conversation with them, get to know them and start putting them through a journey of your process, how you work, what you do, what you expect, how it looks, what it tastes like, what it could be like. Everything else in between. I mean Jeremy, these are things. Marketing never stops, you're always learning this. This stuff's evolving and growing every day. [0:43:18.5]
Jeremy: I agree. That's the bread and butter of any business in my opinion. I got started in real estate with you back in like '05, '06 and I soon realized that everything, it's all about marking. How many seller leads I can get, how many buyer leads I can get and just got obsessed with that side, because I realized it every business is marketing. How many leads can you generate and how many leads can you actually turn into clients.
Mark: Exactly. I mean Jeremy how many people do you know that went out of business for having too many buyers standing in line to buy their product?
Jeremy: Not single one.
Mark: Exactly. But I know a lot of people who have the best fucking product under the moon but they don't have dick about marketing.
Jeremy: Exactly.
Mark: So if you guys are that person, which I would bet the majority of the people listening to the show is that individual, because I know because I talk to a lot of guys, is that we need to start dialing in marketing, we need to invest in ourselves understanding marketing at the next level. [0:44:13.2]
You already have a product. By the way guys, people are selling way should your products than yours with good marketing. So knowing that you create good marketing with a great product, you're going to make so much more money, a bigger impact. Get more money in your pocket, do bigger things with what your trying to accomplish in your life, but you have to learn marketing at the next level and you can't stop. Like Jeremy said, there's not one business... By the way church still markets. You guys understand there's marketing channels for churches. Every company's marketing to get more people in the door to make more, to have more opportunity to sell and make more money, that's what it's about and help people. All of that stuff comes down to one thing, guys. You've got invest in yourself. You got to know every dollar you invest in marketing is an education, every book that you buy is an investment in your future. Jeremy, if I took everything from you and you could only have one skill set, what skill set would you want to keep in business. [0:45:14.3]
Jeremy: Probably copywriting because I think copywriting and marketing, I mean like I said, I can translate them in any business, will it be like real estate or clothes or cars or anything. It applies to every single business.
Mark: That is exactly my point. Like I think everyone typically would say, "Well I have the best supplements in the world." or, "I have the best ice cream factory in the country." or this or whatever. That doesn't mean anything if no one knows it exists. So once you understand marketing, guys, it's literally printing money, it's ROI driven. If I spend a $1000 I make $2000, if I spend $10,000 I make $20,000, if I spend $20 I make $40. That's the direct correlation of ROI.
Jeremy: I think if people are struggling with what to actually market, something that I do is, again I don't know what niche these people are in, but if they go and look on YouTube and they type in like a key phrase or a subject that's relatable to their niche and they search like top YouTube videos, like I would literally just copy a video that someone else did and I'd put my own twist on it and make it better and apply to my business. Does that make sense? It just gives them actual material to actually use and go out there and market with, if they're struggling for ideas, which I know a lot of people do. [0:46:24.9]
Mark: I mean guys again, everyone, I don't care who you are is going to struggle with an idea, maybe you're not being inspired today or this week, some people last 10 years. If there's a video or an article or incident that happens in your life, first of all there's a great book called Feel Like an Artist, it's a great book out there, he's an Ohio boy, the guy who wrote the book. It's a New York Times bestseller, but like first of all there's nothing that anybody created that...
Jeremy: Who wrote that, Mark?
Mark: I forget his name. Don't ask big questions. Why are you asking these real questions, I'm here to beat surface level questions. But no, you can pull it up there if you want but it's Steal Like an Artist, it's a good read. [0:47:05.0]
It's kind of cool, colorful little book. Nothing crazy, but there's nothing out there that you watch, read or hear that hasn't been said before by someone, somewhere, somehow, it's just most people aren't listening. So just like the news, you got to remember in marketing, the news is being repeated every seven to ten minutes. A song, your favorite song. You know that song that you heard initially and you thought that song sucks ass? But they create a repetition of it so many times you actually become, it becomes one your favorite songs, just because of sheer marketing by the way. That's called marketing. It's reputation. In front of you, boom, boom, boom, boom. You hear it every other minute. And you're like, "Fuck, I kind of like this song now." So what can you do with your product and what can you do it your line? Like Jeremy said, if you watch a video and you're like damn, you can mimic it. Obviously your story's going to be unique to you, but like you can understand the baseline framework of what it could look like and feel so you could create that. [0:48:08.8]
Shoot a video, it's never been easier to take your cell phone, do a video and upload it online. It doesn't have to be cinema-graphic, it doesn't have to be perfect, just has to be a message and get it out there.
Jeremy: Just get it started, right?
Mark: Yes. Tai Lopez is the most famous for creating cell phone videos and getting massive exposure. He built his empire off of it, got God's sakes. So what are you doing or what can you do that can get you in front of more people? And that's really what we're talking about is multiplying your voice, and I've talked about this in the past where, you know, if you want to feel awesome because you go around and knock on 1000 doors a day in you're door knocking and you make one sale, or you want to be the person that's the magician that sits back and learns copywriting and marketing and you can create a letter from anywhere in the world, I could dispatch that letter to go out from anywhere on the world from my cell phone for God's sakes, like via mail, right, and then all of a sudden the results start happening. [0:49:06.2]
That's magician type work. I don't have to mule it out and go knocking on doors all day long and go to all these events. There's so many ways to do this, guys. Your magician is inside of you, you just need to acknowledge it, enhance it, and extract it and go to deploy it. When you do these things you're going to start seeing some massive results. I mean Jeremy you've been with your companies, I mean you've had a bunch of different ones, but like you're a lifestyle company guy. Right? You kind of have the lifestyle, not just a big clunky thing that a lot of people build?
Jeremy: Exactly. I'm cool with either or actually, but as of right now I could run the company that I currently have from anywhere. From the house, from the office, on vacations. So I'm not tied down where I got to show up, you know what I mean? I just have the option to it and I choose to, because I like being in the office environment, just kind of sparks a different energy for me. [0:49:59.2]
Mark: Right, but what I'm saying is on the marketing side, you could do your marketing from anywhere in the world.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.
Mark: Running the business side, everyone's going to run their business differently. Like if you have a online product, a PDF product you don't have to have a big office, a warehouse and all the stuff, you just need to have it online where to take money, you have to be able to extract them and put them in your environment and go. It's kind of information business, right? But if you have a real product, a real service, a real team, there's nothing wrong with having an office. In my real estate company we have an office and Jeremy has an office. Like everyone I know has like an office typically, but the owner could be anywhere and still get his work done, still be of value to his own company by being a great market leader and pushing the buttons from a far.
Jeremy: The magician, right?
Mark: The magician, absolutely. So guys and gals it's all about this starts with investing in yourself. You've got invest in yourself, you got to buy the book. I don't make any money of these books I'm recommending, I'm just saying these are books that you should be reading, this for marketing that you should be doing, play around with it. [0:51:02.3]
Jeremy gave you a great tip, like of you're a little bit technical and don't even need to be super technical, you can go on Google and learn how to place ads for $5 a day. It's not a big budget, I personally don't do it because it doesn't get me excited, but if your brand new it be amazingly, super exciting. Just getting it going, people seeing your ad, that's always cool in the beginning. Seeing people click it, that gets you excited, and then people actually respond, you close the deal or you convert someone into your product line or whatever, this is what it's about guys. And again, don't take this lightly, this is a very real call, very real podcast show I should say that can help you take your business from where you're at to a whole another level. And very quickly Jeremy, like if someone catches fire on this, I mean we know guys that go from 0 to millions of dollars a year in the first year with marketing. Right?
Jeremy: It's just the matter of one, actually getting started, two, finding something that works, which is just a numbers game. And then as soon as you find something that works, you just got to scale it up. Got to multiply what you're doing. If you find a marketing message that works in like a group or on a certain web site like Facebook or YouTube, all you got to do is increase ad spend and that just multiplies your revenue. [0:52:13.2]
Mark: Exactly.
Jeremy: Get started and test out different messages and finding one that works, for sure.
Mark: And guys I would love anybody who are listening to this podcast show, I'd love for you to message me over on Instagram or Facebook and let me know, you heard the show, and be nice to Jeremy, this is his first show with us, but don't be talking shit about him. He doesn't even care because everyone talks shit about him, so it's no big deal. But for us, like I would really love to know what your marketing budget is. Jeremy, what's always funny, I'll never forget this. I was in Columbus in my office, this is, God, forever ago, but I remember we were having some money issues, there was a lot of deals moving in just cash was super tight, and we're meeting with our accountant bookkeeper and they're like, "Well $25,000 a month, this is ridiculous." and they're like, "You have to cut this immediately." and I'm like, "Cut what? What are you talking about?" Guess what they're trying to have me cut? Clearly marketing. [0:53:11.3]
Jeremy: The bloodline, bloodline of the business.
Mark: Yeah, exactly. So they literally see marketing as an expense, and I see so many entrepreneurs or want-to-be-preneurs cut marketing thinking that they're saving money. If you know how to market, marketing will always get your shit out of trouble, that's what works, marketing works. There's an ROI effect to it. If it's working, you scale it. You never cut it back, there's no need to cut marketing back if it's working, ever. So it's something that you... Guys again, I'm serious. Like in the beginning you might spend $25,000 a month on marketing and only have $10,000 in staff costs. That's how lopsided it could be initially, depending what product you're in and marketing. Shit Jeremy, your marketing, you're spending 40-50 grand a month on one of your businesses and your staff's only what? $4000 a month. [0:54:03.8]
Jeremy: Yeah, those numbers are correct, yeah. 40-50 G's a month, like as you know, it's nothing. In the last company that I worked, they were spending 15 grand a day. So I mean there's a lot of room to scale, and that's currently what I'm doing. And something that I think is important to touch base on is you and I, like we don't have a marketing budget, like there's no cap. Like everything in ROI based. So if I spend $1000 and make $3000, I'm not going to expand my marketing budget at $5000, I'm going to spend as much as I can, because again, we're ROI based, so based on how much money we can make, there's no cap to it, no budget.
Mark: You're right.
Jeremy: Mindset piece.
Mark: No, it's a huge mindset piece. Because I mean in our world, kind of where I am in today's day and age, 4-5 grand a month for us is like normal. The truth is when we go less than that I go bananas, because I know marketing is working and I'm asking myself why are we not spending more. How do we spend? [0:55:02.2]
Here's a big mind shift, what Jeremy just said to, in a little different way, is the questions you ask yourself will dictate the outcome. Instead of saying "how do I spend less and make more", I'm saying "how do I spend more make more". Right? You're trying to figure out how, like that's why Jeremy, I always start losing it when I see people whining, "How will I get leads for $0.12 a piece?" Well dude, first of all, you're not going at scale at $0.12 on anything. I mean there's scale to it. And secondly, okay, so you got 20 leads for $0.12, what the fuck's that going to do to your business? Nothing, you're not even going to notice probably. But if I said how I scaled from $40 a day or $400 a day or $4000 a day, whatever the cost of the lead is irrelevant, because like Jeremy said, it all comes down to the ROI. Everyone's ROI and product lines will be different. If I spend $4000 today I might make $6000. If you spend $4000 a day you might make $10,000. Depending my business is bigger, maybe I have more staff cost, maybe my product cost is heavier. [0:56:05.4]
There's so many real variables, and this is why I always say mind your own fucking business or mind your own fucking numbers, I should say, because the numbers in everyone's companies are different. Everyone. I've never met a company ever that has the same numbers, Jeremy, ever. If you have a company, you have one staff member, you're getting leads for X, you're making X, your numbers are different than mine numbers and we're kind of in the same business. If you own another company with a competitor that's exactly like you, maybe they take more money on the front end, maybe they don't take any money on the front end, maybe they're not taking anything. Maybe they're trying to pay off debt. There are so many variables. When you mind your own numbers and you spend $4000... Listen, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be trying to figure out how to get lead for cheaper or less cost, but also don't focus on that number solely, because if you pay $0.12, this is a true story Jeremy, you know I talked about this, different lead sources have different price points as well. So what I mean guys by this, let's say if I get a Facebook lead for a dollar, but I did a Google Ad Words for $2. Which lead's more valuable? [0:57:09.6]
Jeremy: Whichever you make more money on.
Mark: The one you make more on. And from my experience, the one that we're paying $2 in this particular situation, this is kind of a true story, is it's generating a 75% more return at this point. Because I believe most people are trying to chase down the $0.50, the dollar leads, when we're looking at it and saying, "Wait, everyone's abandoning this mechanism. I'm going to go over here and hang out until people realize that these leads are worth more money, ROI standpoint." Same thing in direct mail and real estate, everyone's like, "I test broadcast only, I drive for dollars, I do banded sign." Keep doing it, because we're going to keep running direct mail. When everyone sways one way, I go the opposite. When they start coming back, I go where they were at, because I know when you do that, that's shifting the numbers. Your marketing doesn't lie, people do. Your numbers will never lie. They're real, they're right in front of you. But people lie. "It's working amazing." It's not, it's not working for me. So if it's working amazing for them and not working amazing for you what does that mean? You got to pay attention to your numbers. It only matters about that. That's good stuff. Jeremy, anything else on this kind of like, I mean these are some good... You have any good book recommendations for people here? I know Guerrilla Marketing you mentioned, but anything else? [0:58:23.8]
Jeremy: Okay, this will blow their minds. Are you ready? Go online, type in TheGaryHalbertLetter.com, it's about 50 or 70 different articles written by Gary Halbert who's in my opinion the greatest copyright/marketer almost ever. He's dead now unfortunately, but if you go on there it's all free content, you'll get a glimpse into like how he writes and how he actually interacts with leads. It's just amazing. I mean his stuff alone will help you big time. TheGaryHalbertNetter.com. That's my recommendation. That's huge, I didn't even think about that. Even though I've read them all they're still useful. [0:59:10.7]
Mark: Absolutely. I mean again, we're constantly guys creating swipe files and putting them in there. And like I said, Steal Like an Artist, that's a great book everyone should read. It's very simple read, it's a small book, it's really nice, it's really well put together. It's a New York Times bestseller, the guy's a really great writer. Here's some great insights from you guys. I you have a challenge, trying to figure out what to create and how to create it, anything Dan Kennedy, seriously, Dan Kennedy has great book on copywriting and writing and direct response marketing, it's very powerful stuff. So guys, make sure to check that stuff out, and that's all investing in yourself. Not just investing money, but investing time in your craft. I mean Jeremy, we have not only thousands of hours, but millions of dollars this experience, the dollars spent to test this shit. Right?
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean blood, sweat, tears, money, time all of it, man. Something that you got to go all in with if you want to end up at a certain level. [1:00:07.0]
Mark: Exactly. But isn't it like anything? Like if you're huge into working out, you find a new workout that's working for you, you text your friend, your closest buddies and like, "Dudes, fucking this power squat is amazing. Check this out." or, "Try to this new protein." or whatever, and this is true, Jeremy and I are constantly texting each other at all hours of the day and night. Marketing, Jeremy recently I sent you something, I was like, "Dude, mark my word, I'm not writing it yet, but this will be huge in 10 years from now." or something like that. We do shit like that almost every day, I think, texting or emailing or something back and forth or something like that about marketing.
Jeremy: Yeah. I think it's exciting man, like I said, it is like the bloodline of any business. I mean if you don't get excited over that, I don't know, maybe you should find something else to do,
Mark: Exactly. Come work for us. No, I'm just joking. But no, you should definitely guys, this is a huge show today. This is probably the most tactical, detailed show I've ever done because of Jeremy being here and helping kind of guide the conversation and get a little bit clearer picture of like what to do instead of me screaming and hollering and getting all excited by myself. [1:01:15.1]
It's just who I am man, it's kind of like what I do. I think at the end of the day guys, Jeremy, do you have any big plans? I know we're coming in the fall. Is there any other takeaways or anything that you do to get creative or just kind of being in the mix and just doing the work and things pop up?
Jeremy: Definitely being in the mix, just because, like I see emails come through, I see ads online. Once you get like involved in marketing you'll start noticing things like commercials on TV or radio ads or ads on Facebook, online. I just see it all the time and if I see an ad that's going to catchy or that stands out and I can apply it to something that I'm currently doing, I'll save it and I'll have a little swipe file for when I'm running low on ideas I can just always go back to that swipe file and it's full of things from, my God, the past like five, six, seven, eight years. [1:02:04.0]
Mark: And just being in the game. I mean guys recently in June, me and Jeremy, we were working on a project together and we came out hot. Jeremy, we thought it was going to blow it up. Right? We had a marketing...
Jeremy: Yeah, yeah.
Mark: Jeremy spent a lot of time on it, you know we spent some time and energy and money on it on our side, we're pushing it out and it bombed. Like it bombed. Results...
Jeremy: Terrible, yeah.
Mark: There's no emotion in this. Take emotions out, look at results. Results don't lie, emotions do. So it started bombing, within 24 hours we re-engineered that thing and had it where it cranked out sold out quickly. But we were paying attention. We did a 180 on the whole entire messaging, didn't we, J?
Jeremy: Exactly, yeah. It was a completely different hook. One message didn't work, like I thought it was going to kill. Again, this is from my swipe file, I saw something that was out there and doing really well in the market so I'm like I'm just going to take what they're doing, put my twist on it, apply to Mark, and again, it was a complete F-ing dud. I'm an emotional guy, so I was kind of pissed of, it was a blow to my ego, so I took a few hours, relaxed and I just kind of went back to the table with Mark and we did a different hook, like you said, completely different, and then we launched it and it was a success. [1:03:16.8]
Mark: Yeah. I mean obviously we spent a lot of time and energy on the front end, Jeremy in particular to create that hook, and then it bombs, like guys, it's part of the game. I mean Jeremy, you're not going to win all these games, it just doesn't happen.
Jeremy: You're going to lose far more than you win, it's just a matter of picking that win and scaling it up. So again, don't get too attached to anything, just always be moving, always be testing. When you get a win scale it up, and then make another marketing piece and test it against the winner. All keeps going back and forth, just nonstop.
Mark: Exactly. So it's really cool guys, when you really get this dialed in you're going to see a massive changes in your life and your business that will, it just takes a different perspective. You see it so differently, everything is $1000 in, $1500 out, $2000 in etc., and then some days, kind of like I said, $2000 out, $500 in. You're like, "Oh shit, don't do that again." [1:04:10.7]
You got to pay attention to it, that's what this is about, is being a conscious business owner, understanding what your KPI is telling you to do or not do more of, and not letting accounting run your business. Accounting does not run your business by the way, you do. So you have to understand that marketing is always an investment. If you do it right, marketing will never cast you. It should never, ever, ever, ever cost you money to do marketing. Yes, you might be cutting a check or sending a wire, signing an insertion order to spend money, but you will always has a return of investment, always if done right. So please be wise about that guys and gals, and I hope the show's been amazing trio. Please let me know, like I said. Hop on Instagram, follow me on Instagram @MarkEvansDM and let me know you listened to the show and I'd love to know your marketing budget. How much are you spending? Because maybe it's $50 a year, maybe it's five million dollars year. Whatever it is, I'd love to hear it and kind of hear what your big struggle or opportunity is, and then Jeremy and I can come on here and help you guys maybe on a step two of marketing call, because we're here for value. Jeremy's not getting paid for this, I'm not getting paid for this. [1:05:14.5]
Jeremy: Whoa, whoa, what?
Mark: Yeah, exactly. My bad, the check is in the mail, my bad, by bad. I've been saying that since 2006, it's definitely coming, I'm sure. But at the end of the day, for what you guys are trying to do, we want to be of value to you, we want to kind of come in your life, you know, 30 to 60 minutes a week and really implant real knowledgeable, actionable information to get you thinking different, to be different and to enjoy so much more of what business can do. Because guys. there's so much opportunity out there. So make sure to hook up with me on Instagram. And again, if you get a chance, hop over to iTunes and leave a five star review, let me know what's up and let me know you did that, I'd appreciate it, I might even send you a cool gift for doing something for me as well. So thank you guys for being here. J, thanks very much for being on the show, buddy. [1:06:03.7]
Jeremy: My pleasure, man. Had a good time.
Mark: Awesome, guys. Have an amazing day, guys. Make today count. Peace.
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