Get to the bottom of what's truly healthy in this crazy complex world, so you can take back what is rightfully yours. Welcome to the Health Sovereign Podcast. This is your host, Logan Christopher.
Logan Christopher: 00:19 Joining me today is Ron Baker, who is a self-mastery coach, author and healing practitioner, guiding thousands of clients from around the world through a unique process of personal transformation over the last 25 years through a school of self-mastery.
He’s also a former Broadway and opera star. I mean, this guy can really sing. I don't know if we'll get into any of that today, but it's an amazing man, and we're going to start off with, I guess, what really kind of brought me into Ron's world.
One of the things I do, I’m part of a business group called Maverick 1000, and they hold an event called Camp Maverick, which is quite literally summer camp for entrepreneurs. If any of you have read my book, Powered by Nature, that's kind of mentioned because there's a thread and an unfolding of that. So, lots of cool stuff happens at Camp Maverick.
Anyway, at this event, this was just a few months ago, a few days before my cat had been climbing around on offense, and there were some poison oak branches coming over there. And so, I was trying to trim back this bush so that he wouldn't get poison oak oils on his fur and then be spreading to us humans or my two-year-old daughter now.
So, I was trimming those things and being very careful because I've gotten poison oak a number of times before. However, then on washing my tools later, and I was under the impression that soap broke down these oils and wouldn't be a problem.
That was not the case, and I ended up touching some sensitive places in my body with these poison oak boils, which included my eyes and my genitals. So, it was pretty bad, very swollen. Everything looked bad. But I decided, because I still had one good eye—it was only on one side, thankfully—that I could still make it to Camp Maverick, and I really wanted to go because of the amazing people and all of the things that happen there.
So, I go there and I'm looking deformed and whatnot, and several people had said, Oh, you could go get some cortisone or some various drugs that would help take down the swelling, and as you guys know, listening to the show, I generally do not use pharmaceutical medicine. Actually, not even generally, period, unless it's really necessary, and I didn't deem this quite necessary. But what happened to be there was there were several people that were into energy healing and various things, and I worked with a couple of them—one of whom was Ron, and we did some very cool work, which we'll be diving into here a little bit and discussing what that looks like.
But the interesting thing that came is, one, the swelling went down pretty significantly within the next day. And then, to the layers of mental and emotional stuff that was attached to this, it wasn't just a physical symptom, and had I just taken a physical drug, that wouldn't have come up at all. So, I found that very cool and I feel that was part of the reason that I got this poison oak. It was to learn this lesson. So, Ron was someone that helped me with that and we'll be diving into details on that.
So, thank you for that, Ron, and thank you for joining me today.
Ron Baker: 03:13 Hey, you're welcome. I appreciate you having me on. It's nice to share with the audience. Congratulations on your new podcast. I know that you have lots of cool things to share with the world, so it's nice that you've created this way to do it.
Logan: 03:26 Thank you very much for that. So, energy work—can you a little bit of your story, how you got into this?
Ron: 03:34 Yeah. Let's see. It goes way back for me, always wanting to figure out, since I was a child, how everything works. I wanted to understand life and how that works, and I wanted to understand health, and why certain people got sick all the time and others didn't. Just curious all the time.
Then when I got into my early-twenties, I discovered that I was … Some people call it empathetic. Other people call it being clairsentient. Basically, it boils down to when anybody in my family got sick or hurt, I would feel it in my body as if it were happening to me. And then, it got so sensitive that it could be anyone in the room, so if I'd go to a restaurant and someone a couple of tables over was nauseous, then I would sit there the whole time nauseous. It was not fun.
So, I sought out some teachers who were healers who could help me understand how to direct the energy, how to shut that down when I wanted it to be not so sensitive, and then how to open it up and direct it in more powerful ways.
So, since my mid-twenties I discovered that because I can feel where energy is blocked and not moving in the body, then I could help to open it up and I could feel when it was moving again. And so, I decided as I went further into this, that if I could get people to work with me and I could teach them the one I was working on, what was up, and how to begin to breathe and work with moving their own energy, that they were much less likely to recreate the problem, and the healing would happen much faster.
The bottom line is I've had a lot of years of exploring and it came out of that beautiful curiosity that I think we all have about some of the gifts that we would be wise to explore and deepen. And this just happened to be one of mine.
Logan: 05:47 Okay. Yeah. That point of, as you said, it's a gift that you can do this and it can be problematic. As you went through those periods there, what really helped you to be able to, I guess, turn it on and turn it off, or turn it up and turn it down as needed?
Ron: 06:03 Yeah. The bottom line of that was, and this will help people whether they're healers or not, because a lot of people are sensitive to the people around them and to the energies around them. A lot of people feel like they take on other people's emotions and struggles and difficulties. And this is the bottom line of what I was doing. I discovered over time that the way I grew up, I basically was trying to figure out how to fix all the problems. I didn't think that my parents were very good at addressing things and working things out. And so, I developed a sensitivity to wanting to figure out how to, a way to resolve the issues that were happening in my house.
And so, I learned to be what is called a caretaker and I tried to take on everybody else's stuff, and I said, “I'll work it out. I'll figure it out.” I didn't even know that I was doing this, of course, but it was a way that people learned to be too open to other people's energy and literally take on that energy.
I'll even say that in one of my first experiences as an energetic healer, I was doing a Broadway show that a lot of people have heard of called “Les Mis” or Les Misérables, and I was doing Javert, and the guy that was playing the role of Marius fell off one of the set pieces one particular night and he sprained his ankle. And I came over to see if I could help and I literally did the same thing with him. I focused the energy and I began to move the energy, but I was still very much caught up in caretaking.
And so, I didn't even think logically, but I was like, Oh, I want to save you from this, so let me take this from you. And his ankle literally got totally better, and I was in an ankle brace for the next three days, carrying the empathetic pain.
Logan: 08:04 Wow.
Ron: 08:05 So, you say, how do you turn it off? How do you turn it up or down? I learned that if I contain my energy, meaning I connect to myself and I claim myself as an individual, and I realize that others are having the lessons they need to have that serve them.
So, you said when you got the poison oak that you ended up discovering a bunch of stuff about yourself, which I'm sure we'll go into, and because you had the challenge, it gave you an opportunity to make some discoveries about what was going on in you with your patterns and with your emotions.
And so, I learned rather than trying to take away everybody else's challenges, our challenges are here to serve us, all the way back to just the simplicity of when you're in first grade, you face the challenge of learning to read, learning to be away from home, learning to work with other people, learning all kinds of things. Those are challenges and they serve us.
If we face our challenge and we have support, then it's only by moving through the challenge that we claim more depths of self. So, challenges are not bad, but because we've received so little support, we have tried to avoid them I guess.
And so, coming back to how I turn it on or off, I learned that if I just support others to have their challenges and help them understand what those challenges are revealing; help them understand how to show up and nurture themselves, how to develop some of their own capacity to improve the quality of their life, whether it's their physical health or their emotional health or whatever; if I allow people to have their challenges, and I just contain my energy and show up as a nurturer and a supporter, I don't need to take on what other people are going through. So, it makes it a much cleaner deal and everybody still gets the support from me that they need, and it makes it a whole lot better than what I was doing to begin with.
Logan: 10:24 So, can you walk through, I guess, kind the insights. I show up at Camp Maverick. I have an extremely swollen eye and you offer help with that, and then you're holding your hands near my eye. What is going on inside for you as you do that?
And maybe we should discuss your … Some people don't even believe in energy, which is kind of funny to me being immersed in it. I mean, I get it because I used to be of a materialistic mindset, but I saw things happening and then felt energy myself and it kind of opened me up.
A friend of mine was recently talking about astrology and he put it in a good way. It's like it's funny that people say they don't believe in astrology. Astrology is basically just a language, so saying you don't believe in astrology is like saying you don't believe in Spanish like it doesn't exist. And I could think it's somewhat similar with energy, too. Just if you don't have the sensitivity to pick it up, you may not be aware of it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
Ron: 11:21 Yeah. It's kind of like anytime something new is introduced that stretches somebody's comfort zone, the first thing we tend to do is protect our comfort zone.
So, let's just imagine how strange it was a century ago when people said, Oh yeah, you're going to be able to stick this little piece of metal into the wall and the room is going to light up. That is crap. That is crazy. It must be evil, whatever, all kinds of reactions.
Anytime anything new was introduced, it required people to stretch. Until people understand how it can benefit them, then they tend to protect, or we tend to protect and defend ourselves.
So, I'm glad that I was curious as a child. It made me more willing to explore things. I just believe that more was possible than what we were being taught, but I have encountered plenty of people when I say, Would you like me to do some energy work where I help you accelerate relieving the pain that you're in? people say no, No, I'm not comfortable with that. Okay, no problem.
Then, there's a category of people who say, Sure … I guess … and I start to work on them, and they literally grip and don't allow the energy to move. Fortunately, I'm sensitive enough in doing the work that I can tell when that's the case and I say, Okay, I feel that you need to consider this, this, this, and then they are really pleased as they begin to allow the energy to move.
And now I'm going to give a specific story if that's all right. A good buddy of mine was a firefighter in New York City. Actually, he's still a firefighter in New York City, but at this point it was probably 15 years ago. He was arm-wrestling with someone and the pressure that they were creating was so much that he literally split his humerus, the bone that goes from the elbow to the shoulder. He split his humerus completely.
Logan: 13:33 Wow.
Ron: 13:33 And he was kind of a “I can get through anything,” but the next morning he was in such pain that they rushed him to the hospital, and they said, “Okay, this is the deal. Your humerus has a compound fracture. We're going to have to literally rebreak it because it started reconnecting and it's not going to heal well.”
And so, he said, “Okay, let me go and talk to my friend, Ron, before I decided to do all that.” He knew I was into energy healing. He didn't really know whether he trusted it, but he knew he didn't want to rebreak his arm.
So, he came to see me and he trusted me already as a person. I knew him for a long time. So, I said, “Okay, let's do this, and you breathe with me and work with me, and I'm going to send this energy.” And I could feel the energy was moving in a really powerful way, and he could feel it, too. And then, all of a sudden, I'm guessing five minutes, maybe 10 minutes in, the energy stopped completely. And I said, “Whoa, I don't know what just happened.”
And he said, “I can tell you what happened. I could feel my arm shifting and it scared me.”
I said, “I don't even think this is possible in my head,” and so, he cut off the energy.
The next day or later that day, he goes to the hospital and they say, Okay, we don't know what has happened or why it's happened, but we don't need to rebreak your arm anymore. It has moved into a healthy position, but you still need to get a cast.
And so, I share all those stories because people are at various levels of what they believe or will allow.
The good news—all matter is made up of energy and science will tell you that. We learned it in school. But when it comes down to stretching your comfort zone and how that applies to you, sometimes it takes a while.
Logan: 15:34 You said a few things in there that I want to, I guess, zoom in on.
Ron: 15:38 Absolutely.
Logan: 15:39 This idea of using the energy to accelerate the relief of pain or accelerate the healing, even with a bone break there. So, I liked the idea because, one, we don't kill people, right? The body itself is the healing mechanism, so are you making the energy flow in a faster way? What is going on there that this acceleration occurs?
Ron: 16:00 Yeah, it's a question of you can learn to be a conduit of the energy because energy is already moving in your body. If I as a healer learn how to clear my stuff—my fears, shame, judgment—if I learn to clear that stuff and I practice moving energy through me, then I become a conduit who can move more and more energy.
So, when I go to work on someone, I'm tapping into the flow of energy in their body, and yet we're all connected energetically. And so, if I use my hands to direct a bigger flow of energy, and I connect to somebody's body and their energy flow, such as your eye, as an example. I can send a greater flow of energy and the healing equals having a free flow of energy through the tissue, and anything that was out of balance or blocked or in friction can then begin to move more fully.
If there's this nurturing and encouragement, then you're going to be less resistant, less gripped, and if you allow someone who can move more energy, will accelerate the return to flow.
So, as an example, helping people who have a migraine. It's a great example because it's not so complicated as a broken bone. A migraine tends to come from a major grip of energy in the back of the neck and shoulders, and the energy then builds up in the head. And if you've ever had migraines, it can literally feel like nails sticking in your head. It can be really, really painful.
And so, what I do is massage, help to open the grip and relax a bit, and then move the energy, and the pain that came from grip and friction literally disappears in a few moments, and at least most of the time it does. It depends on the person, and how ready and willing they are to open and trust, but it is pretty common that I can relieve headaches and migraines pretty quickly. And, of course, it's just me being the facilitator, the person's body determines everything.
Therefore, the person's willingness, the person's openness, the person's … I'm going to go back to the word, willing to relax and go with the suggestions that I make, opens to a flow of giving and receiving. It opens to health, vitality, and when that happens, the friction which was causing the pain is no longer there, and, therefore, the pain disappears.
Logan: 19:03 Yeah. If I'm remembering correctly, when you were doing the energy work on me, you were also talking to me, coaching me through relaxing parts of my body, which is this idea of the tightness or constriction, and I forget where this was, but you were talking about three major points of tightness, which is the sphincter, the jaw in the solar plexus. I’d definitely heard of the sphincter and the jaw, and I also think around the eyes, people tend to get tense there. But the solar plexus, that wasn't on my radar as much, but then as you coached me through it, it really kind of became clear that that area can tighten and often does tighten along with breathing as well.
Ron: 19:40 Yeah, there are three major diaphragms.
Logan: 19:41 I learned a bit more of the importance of that, and relaxing and letting the energy flow.
Ron: 19:46 Yeah, there are three major diaphragms in the body and you named them. The sphincter or the anal muscle—if somebody doesn't know what a sphincter is, the anal muscle—clearly you can grip that and you can also relax that. When someone is in survival fear, they tend to grip that sphincter muscle.
The solar plexus, which is just below the rib cage or the sternum, it is the main diaphragm that we talk about in the body and when we're in the need to control something, we will tend to grip there in the mid-belly.
Then, we have the throat, jaw, tongue, which is the other main diaphragm in the body, and when we don't feel safe to express ourselves, to express our feelings, to allow that energy of who we are on the inside to be expressed and released into the world, then we grip. We might even grind our teeth. For instance, if someone starts to cry, oftentimes they will grip the throat to keep the tears and the sadness from coming up and out, because they’ve learned early on in life not to feel safe with that.
So, I was tuning into your three main diaphragms and helping you breathe to open those up as one place. You mentioned that the eyes can also get tight and I completely agree. There are actually seven rings that can grip in the body, and that one is called the ocular or the eye ring. All you have to do is imagine something happening and you don't want to see it, and so you grip your eyes closed really tight like a child would. I don't want to see that or I don't want somebody to see me. It's like what somebody will do if they cover their eyes with their hands.
So, yes, there are many ways we can grip in the body. And so, I help people understand how safe they are, and how to begin to breathe, connect, relax and open that, and so, that was a big part of helping your eye heal so quickly.
Logan: 21:59 Yeah, it's interesting since you brought this up, going into the details of some of the emotional stuff around the eye. My eye was basically just about almost swollen shut completely. I could still see out of it a little bit at its peak, at its worst point. It was on my eye and my genitals as well.
So, one of the things that came up was I've been kind of gripped or absorbed by this whole Jeffrey Epstein thing going on—which if people are not familiar with that, this very wealthy and well-connected guy involved with basically pedophilia—and just seeing all the things surrounding that. I've been looking at this and other areas, kind of looking into the darkness of what's really going on in the world. And so, it's interesting that these two areas get affected, and I felt like that was part of the attachment that was into this thing.
So yeah, seeing what you don't want to see, but I was like looking into those, and then I had this event occur. Very interesting.
Ron: 22:57 Yeah. We manifest very specifically what it is that we are fighting, avoiding, resisting, or where we have much great sense of willingness and openness. We manifest health in those areas, so we tend to think of manifesting a problem. So, people manifest specifically in the body based on what they're fighting or where they hold trauma.
For instance, in this case where somebody wouldn't feel safe, somebody's misuse of sexual energy, etc., brings up fear. I don't want to see that. I grip that. And if you remember there was a whole sense of wanting to go and conquer it and fix it, and push the envelope. And there was a whole lot of energy that was not in flow and trust, and nurturing yourself and making sure you felt safe. And so, we brought your daughter, I believe, into the equation and talked about you wanting to protect and defend for her as well.
And so, there were many issues that we talked about relaxing, nurturing and trusting, and how great it is that you want to be a protective father and a nurturing father, and that you didn't feel so much that energy when you were growing up, if you don't mind my sharing a little bit of the story. And so, having not felt so safe in this way growing up made you want to swing the pendulum to the other side and overprotect, and go into fear and conquering, and that doesn't necessarily create a healthy flow either.
We talked about how to get to the middle of that; how to allow giving and receiving, and trust; how to feel safer yourself; even receiving the energy and the nurturing support from me. And all of those things began to relax your nervous system, so even though the eyes began to heal in a rapid way and the swelling went down much more quickly than it would have, it was the combination of understanding why you were in such charged energy and grip, not just the movement of energy from me as a healer.
Logan: 25:23 Couple of things come to mind. I've heard people refer to poison oak as guardian oak.
Ron: 25:28 Hmm …
Logan: 25:28 That this plant spirit, and actually it's serving a useful function in the ecology, including often keeping humans out of certain areas because we tend to trample through things. So, having experiences before and just as an herbalist, we consume herbs internally for the most part or topically as well. So, most people think that it's not really a poison; it's more of an irritation that happens, but is there a medicine that can come from that?
So, it's interesting that literally this is the fourth or so time I've gotten poison oak in a few years, so I keep having run-ins against this, and hopefully I've internalized that medicine and won't need it again. But that's very interesting to think about.
The next part. So, on that first day of camp, yeah, like you were saying my nervous system, really relaxed. I could feel that even though I still had this bit of irritation. I was in a much better mood after that. I slept well through the night. The previous several nights, really, really bad itching down below, which made not the best sleep. But from that night on, I slept much better.
What's very interesting is you had worked specifically around the eye that first night and the swelling went down pretty significantly after that. But then I was looking in the other—the swelling had gone down a little bit, but not nearly as much.
So, I pointed that out to you and asked if you could basically work on that area, too, give that some accelerated healing as well. And it was funny because we were sitting around in a circle. I was just involved with conversation with other people and all of a sudden I feel basically like a tingle, like things are moving and shifting, and I look over and you were nonchalantly just sitting there doing the work without me even noticing it until I physically felt it. And that was … we both had a good laugh at that.
Ron: 27:16 Yeah, that's a great testament. It's very tender when we manifest things in sensitive areas of the body like the genitals, and nobody wants to talk about it.
Logan: 27:25 Yeah.
Ron: 27:26 So, I thought it was so great that you opened up, trusted and shared so much, but it was a testament in a number of directions. We put 90 percent of the focus on your eyes and that is where the healing took place most fully. And then, when you mentioned, “Wow, this is still irritated in my genital area,” and then I decided, well, since I'm hanging out here beside you can just keep talking. I don't have to put my hands directly on the specific areas of the body. I just directed the energy from about two feet away and was nonchalantly sending energy. I think it is so great that you could feel the energy moving in your body. So great. It's a testament to the fact that it's happening.
And so, I worked on it for a while and then apparently that got better as well in an accelerated way. So, yeah, it's nice that there can be laughter and lightness around it all, too.
Logan: 28:23 Yeah, I felt energy many times before, but not quite in that area, not quite in that way.
Ron: 28:29 Yeah, that’s right.
Logan: 28:29 So, I thought that was a great example, and I hope people enjoyed hearing about that.
Ron: 28:35 Yeah, it makes it more memorable.
Logan: 28:36 Yeah, it's definitely a memorable energy experience. I don't think I'll ever forget that one.
Ron: 28:41 Yeah.
Logan: 28:43 Thank you so much for listening. We will be back with Ron next week to dive into inner child work and also the universal soul’s purpose.
In the meantime, I wanted to read this review from iTunes from ashoka164 titled “Logan is a legend.” Thank you very much.
“Logan is one of those people who continuously surprise you with the level of intellect and thoughtfulness that goes into everything he studies and shares. This podcast is the cherry on top of the cake for Logan fans, and I’m already hooked. Highly recommended!!!”
Thank you very much, ashoka164, and thank you everyone for listening. I would highly enjoy getting more reviews like this on iTunes, so head on over there, really easy to do, and you may hear your comments live later on.
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