You're listening to “Financial Advisor Marketing”: the best show on the planet for financial advisors who want to get more clients, without all the stress. You're about to get the real scoop on everything from lead generation to closing the deal.
James is the founder of TheAdvisorCoach.com, where you can find an entire suite of products designed to help financial advisors grow their businesses more rapidly than ever before. Now, here is your host, James Pollard.
James: Not that long ago, I shared this graph on LinkedIn, and in an email that I sent out. It was the chart of my training progress with an implement called the Rolling Thunder. If you want to see what that looks like, just google “the Rolling Thunder grip implement” or something like that. It's a revolving deadlift handle that is two and three eighths inches in diameter, so it’s a very thick handle. It's like trying to pick up this heavy suitcase, but the handle is as thick as a soda can, and it rolls away in your fingers the minute you apply pressure. That is the Rolling Thunder. It is very difficult. [01:03.5]
I know you can't see the chart because it's a podcast episode, but the chart says, and in that chart, my best lift was 147 lbs. But I had a current training session going. I ended up beating that number in the training session, and right now, at the time of recording this podcast, I'm finally above 150 lbs. on the Rolling Thunder. To put that in perspective, there's a video of a world champion rock climber and one of Norway's strongest men, literally nicknamed Norwegian Hulk, both attempting to lift 148 pounds, and they both failed, just saying.
Anyway, I shared that chart because I wanted people to guess when I stopped trying to wing it and when I started actually listening to my coach. I know you can't see the chart because, again, it's a podcast episode, so I'm going to describe it. [01:53.0]
The beginning is all up and down. It's wild. Yes, I'm making progress, but also not really, if that makes sense. Then there's a point in the graph where it just goes up and it stays up, and slowly goes up and up and up for pretty much the entire rest of the graph. So, it goes from up and down, and wild gyrations and swings to just a slow and steady climb. That point where it transitions to the slow steady climb is obviously when I started listening to my coach.
There's a marketing lesson here. Lots of financial advisors try to figure everything out themselves and then wonder why their business isn't growing as much as it should. I'll never forget one of the things my grip coach told me. When he told me to do something and I disagreed with him, when I challenged him on it, he basically said, “I am stronger than you. I have the results you want. If you do what I say, then you'll probably get better results.” I mean, he said it in slightly harsher language than that, I mean, a couple F-bombs in there, but still, a very good lesson. It is an incredible life lesson and I know many, many financial advisors who need to learn this lesson. [03:01.6]
Sometimes I want to be the “Just shut up and listen” guy, but I'm too nice. I really am. I know sometimes I play the character of a grumpy arrogant kind of guy, but I am kind of timid when it comes to saying, “Look, just shut up and listen to me.” I don't really do that. But sometimes I really want to. Sometimes I want to be like, Listen to me, you are in your 40s or 50s and you're still treating your business like a job. The clock is ticking, let's go. You are not thinking like a business owner. If you knew what to do, then you would have done it by now. You would have already had the results, okay? So, how is this working for you? But I don't. I put on the nice James face.
Actually, you know what? That's not true. Every so often, I'll let it slip out. For example, I had this one financial advisor try to talk to me about making money in a money-related topic and optimizing for money, and all this other stuff, and he gave me his opinion, which was exactly that, an opinion, and he kept nagging me about it. [03:57.0]
I respect people's opinions. We have the First Amendment. You can say whatever you want. We have freedom of speech, that's cool. You can have your opinion. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. That's okay. But don't keep coming at me with your dumb opinions. Or at least, my opinion is that it's a dumb opinion. Eventually, I just straight up said, “Hey, whatever. Just do what you want. But what do I know? I only became financially independent in my 20s, doing it my way. If I did it your way, I'd be stuck in a cubicle somewhere, living for the weekend,” because, I mean, at some point you just have to pull up and show these people.
Just like my grip coach said, he was stronger than me, and he is stronger than me in almost every single way, physically. I would be so dumb not to at least consider what he told me to do—and that doesn't mean I have to listen to him. I can do whatever I want to do. I have the freedom to do anything, really, just like you can do whatever you want to do. But the results are the results and the consequences are the consequences. If I listen to him, then I get the consequences of listening to him. If I do it my way, then I have to live with the consequences of doing whatever I thought was right. That is how I feel in the marketing world. [05:04.5]
The guy here, what I'm talking about, the grip coach, he already has the lifts I want to do. There's nothing I can do to help him get stronger. I am not the one contributing in that aspect of the relationship. He's got that covered, right? That is how I feel. I'm already generating tens of thousands of leads with my marketing materials. My website has already gotten millions of visitors. I've already done the work. I already know how to write good direct mail letters and sales letters and webinars, and emails and all that. I am good. Trust me, I have the skills.
I remember, in one of my webinars about email marketing, I put a screenshot in the presentation where I made something like $400,000 from one email marketing campaign. Don't quote me on that, because I don't remember the exact figure, but it was something like $400,000. It was in that area. So, if you are someone who wants to get better at email marketing, you can either listen to what I say or just do whatever you think is right, and we can compare results, right? Chances are, for the average financial advisor, I am making more than he or she makes an entire year with one single email campaign, so maybe I kinda sorta know what I'm doing. [06:07.8]
I hate to be that guy. I hate to be the one who's like, Oh, look at me, let me beat my chest. I'm so important and rah-rah-rah. I'm really not like that, trust me. But sometimes I just get tired. I just get sick of it. I get sick of the people who think they know better. They don't, right? I keep bringing the grip stuff up, because I, for a brief second, thought I knew better and I just didn't. I was just being dumb, and I've been dumb a lot. I'm going to talk about another dumb thing that I did.
I had another financial advisor try to call me out for my thoughts on cash flow, and he kind of mockingly said that if I wanted cash flow, I could do covered call ETFs. But what he didn't know, because he assumed, and you know what happens when you assume, he didn't know that I recently sold $57,000 worth of a covered call ETF for that exact purpose. So, I shared that screenshot with him and I showed him right then and there that I'm already doing that and it's not a problem. Again, sometimes you just have to pull up and show them. Don't let these people play with your name. [07:04.3]
Legendary marketer Dan Kennedy used to pose this question to his audiences: “Would you rather be right or be rich?” Sadly, lots of people would rather be right. They would rather be, quote-unquote, “right” by sticking to their existing beliefs and opinions. I see it all the time with financial advisors. They'll get a proven marketing strategy from someone like me or another person, or someone with the results, and the financial advisors will argue with the same person trying to guide them. They’re trying to help you. Why are you fighting these people? They'll say things like this: “That won't work in my area.”
And side note—I get this all the time with financial advisors in Australia and the UK and Canada, which is weird to me, because human psychology doesn't change just because you cross a border, okay? If I am in Niagara Falls, New York, teaching marketing to financial advisors and helping them with their marketing, and I walk a couple feet to the west and north, so northwest, I guess, and I am in Niagara Falls, Canada, human psychology didn't just change. It's not like we feel a disturbance in the force and all the rules go out the window and nothing works anymore. That just does not happen, okay? Human psychology is the same. Marketing is about psychology. That is what it is. [08:17.8]
They'll say things like, “My clients are different,” which is crazy to me because I have helped financial advisors with all sorts of clients, retirees, pre-retirees, divorced people, people with young children, people with older children, college planning, estate planning, every occupation under the sun within reason, firefighters, first responders, doctors, all sorts of medical professionals, corporate executives, business owners. I have been in almost every single market.
It is rare at this point that I encounter a market that I haven't really had that much experience with, and in recent office hours, I think it was one or two people who were asking about general contractors, and they got me there. Yes, I have financial advisors in my world who work with general contractors and I deferred to them, but I don't have that much direct experience helping financial advisors market to general contractors. But that rarely happens anymore. [09:09.7]
They'll also say things like, “I tried that and it didn't work.” Never mind that this strategy has worked for hundreds of other financial advisors or thousands of other financial advisors. Never mind that the ones who want to argue all the time are stuck where they have always been. They would rather be right in their beliefs and opinions than be rich. Put another way, they would rather be right than have the results, right?
In the case of my grip training, my coach prevented me from going down the dangerous path of believing I knew better than him. I did not know better than him, and when it comes to financial advisor marketing, I likely know better than you. It does not mean I'm better than you as a person or smarter than you, or more talented than you or any of those things. But when it comes to marketing, I have spent years in the trenches. I've tested. I've refined. I've implemented strategies with tens of thousands of financial advisors to this point. I have seen what works. I've seen what does not work across different markets, different business models, different personality types. I have seen it. [10:06.7]
But enough about that. Let me pay off the title of this episode, which is, “Stop trying to justify what you charge.” Here's what I mean by that title. A few months ago, one of my online ads completely flopped. It was a big loser. It did not do well, and it went like this. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I'm just going to give you an idea. It was for the Inner Circle Newsletter and it said, “The James Pollard Inner Circle isn't cheap. If it was cheap, it wouldn't be physically printed and mailed to your door each month. It wouldn't be stacked with campaign breakdowns that pull real-world results. It wouldn't be backed by a decade-plus of working with financial advisors, with in-the-trenches proof.” That copy is brilliant, I love that, but I made an enormous miscalculation which caused the ad to fail miserably. [10:51.4]
You see, I assumed that people thought of the Inner Circle as expensive and I quickly found out they did not, because I got emails and messages from financial advisors like, “James, why is your Inner Circle so cheap? I paid way more for masterminds and courses that don't deliver half the value you do.” “James, why is it only 199?” “Why is it only this? Why is it so cheap?” And that’s when it hit me—I was foolishly trying to justify a price no one was objecting to. That is so silly. It was goofy. I was a goofy goober. I can't believe I made such a rookie mistake, and it goes to show you that experience does not make you immune from errors, because I made a dumb [mistake].
Please learn from me. Do not try to justify your value if people aren't objecting to it, because you don't justify your price based on what you think. You justify it based on what your prospective clients think, and if your prospective clients aren't pushing back on your fees, if they're not flinching or hesitating, or even mentioning your price at all, then why in the world would you bring it up in the sense of trying to justify it. Yes, bring it up. Yes, be transparent about what you charge. Yes, make sure they know. But why would you try to convince or persuade, or give more than is necessary? [12:08.8]
When you try to justify something they're not even questioning, you actually plant the seed of doubt that wasn't there to begin with. So, I got people to think that the Inner Circle was expensive despite them thinking that it was cheap, that it was inexpensive. I screwed that up. You're essentially saying, “Hey, just in case you're wondering if this is worth it, here's why it is,” and that is a losing move. [12:30.8]
Listen up, financial advisors. This is something special I'm doing exclusively for people who listen to this podcast. If you subscribe to the Inner Circle Newsletter over at TheAdvisorCoach.com/coaching, I will send you a collection of seven copyright-free emails, personally written by me, that you can use right away to begin getting more clients.
I call these my “objection-busting” emails, because they are designed to overcome the biggest objections financial advisors face. All you have to do is send me an email letting me know you’ve subscribed and I will reply with a link where you can download them for free.
I originally offered these in the May 2024 Inner Circle Newsletter issue, and it was one of the most popular bonuses I've ever given away. Today, these seven objection-busting, copyright-free emails are only available to listeners of this podcast, because I'm not mentioning them anywhere else. Go to TheAdvisorCoach.com/coaching to subscribe today. Now, back to the show.
I want you to imagine walking into a steakhouse or something, like a Morton's or a Michael Jordan Steak House, which is phenomenal, by the way. There's one in Mohegan Sun in Connecticut. It’s all the best, and there's one in Chicago. There used to be one in, I believe, Washington, D.C. I think I have not been to that one, but I've been to the Chicago one. I've been to the Mohegan Sun. They are both oh so good.
So, the Michael Jordan Steak House, okay? The waiter comes up to you and says, “Now, I just want you to know this steak is”—I don't remember how much it is, but let's just say—“$78 because it's dry aged for 45 days and seared in a Wagyu beef tallow. That's why it's so expensive.” You'd be like, Okay . . . . I didn't ask, but okay. [14:13.3]
But when the waiter brings up the price and starts to justify it and is kind of defensive about it, you're thinking about the price. You're wondering if it's worth it, and it's the same with financial advisors. Too many financial advisors will say stuff like this. “I charge $5,000 for a full financial plan, but that includes X, Y and Z. And I also do quarterly reviews. And here's a spreadsheet I made. And—” No, stop. Stop right there, because if people are not objecting, do not start defending. Just say the price. State it like it's a fact, because it is. You don't need to explain it. You don't need to cushion it. You don't need to apologize for it, at least not in all cases. As with everything in marketing, there is nuance to this, but I'm just giving you the general idea of why you should not try to do the thing that I did, which is to basically say, “Here's why it's so expensive.” [15:03.0]
Let me say something else that might sting a little bit. The moment you start over explaining your fee, you have already lost posture. You're coming from a place of insecurity instead of a place of authority. I did that. I didn't even realize that I was doing it, and prospects can feel it.
Now, if someone does object to your price, then that's different. Then you can unpack the value. Then you can help them understand the ROI, but only after they bring it up. If you have prospective clients who are saying, “Wow, that seems a little too much,” or “I don't really understand what I'm getting. Can you give me a little bit more information?” then, yes, that is when you justify.
This lesson applies everywhere in your business. It's not just your pricing. Whenever you assume that people are thinking something without actual proof, you run the risk of sabotaging yourself. It can pay off. I've done it in the past. I have made assumptions. I've run that risk and it has paid off for me, but in this case, it did not. [15:56.3]
I assumed people thought my Inner Circle was expensive. Turns out, they didn't. They thought it was too cheap, and I wasted ad dollars defending a position that nobody held, at least, not my ideal clients. I mean, yes, some people thought it was expensive. Some people still think it's expensive, but some people are going to think everything is expensive. Even if it was $1 a month, some people would still think that's too much. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the ideal prospects and clients.
Actually, if you want to justify anything at all, here's the lesson you should get. You should justify whatever your prospective clients believe. If they believe you're expensive, then you should justify that expense. If they believe you're not expensive, you should justify why you're not expensive, because both of those things are rooted in skepticism. And the strategy here? I talk a lot about strategies versus tactics. The strategy is to reduce that skepticism.
Here's how I did it. I'm going to read you my actual advertising copy. I rarely do this on the podcast, but I feel like giving you a special treat today. This is legitimate copy that I actually used in my actual marketing to solve this problem, okay? You're obviously not selling a newsletter like I am, or at least, I don't think you are. You are doing financial planning and giving financial advice. But pay attention to the justification here. Pay attention to the mechanisms that I use. Okay, here we go. [17:17.4]
“In a world where masterminds cost $15,000 and courses run $2,000, a mere $199 per month feels suspiciously low, especially for something this valuable. For starters, the main reason it's priced so low”—here's the justification—“is because it's a way for me to reach a wider audience of financial advisors. It is not time intensive like coaching. It doesn't require equity, legal paperwork or revenue splits. It's something I can reliably deliver month after month without sacrificing my family time or other business interests.”
So, that is one part of the justification. I have actually always done this, which made it even weirder, because I would say, “Oh, it's super expensive,” and “Oh, this is the way for me to reach a wider audience of financial advisors.” Those are contradictory and I didn't even really realize I was doing it. [18:03.0]
Moving on. “Plus, I don't need to squeeze every dollar out of this. This isn't my first rodeo, and it's not my only income stream. Truthfully, it's a relatively small part of my business, and frankly, I'm not interested in making a few bucks off one-time sales. I'm playing the long game. I'd rather have advisors stick around for years, because the better they do, the longer they stay, and the longer they stay, the more profitable it is for both of us. It's a win-win. That's why nearly 100% of Inner Circle members stay month after month. Many have been with me for six, seven, and eight years.”
So, that’s another justification. The justification in this particular point is that I would rather make a lot of money. I'd rather make a lot of money total over the long term, instead of trying to get a one-time sale. Okay? Let's say I sold courses for-- Actually, I do, but let's say that I only sold courses for $2,000, and if I sold 1,000 financial advisors a $2,000-course, I would make a fixed amount of money, right? [19:00.0]
But if I got people in the Inner Circle and I got them to stay an entire year, which almost every single person does, then I would make more than the course and they would stay so long, they would stay one year and another year and another year and another year, and I would make so much more money over the long term. That is the justification. It puts us on the same side of the table, right?
If you're not happy with the results that you're getting with direct email access, the office hours and the newsletter, if you can't make it work, honestly, it's you. It's your problem. It's your fault. I'm just telling you the truth. But if you really can't make it work, then there's no contracts, no commitment, you just leave. That's okay, right? The cost to you is less than shelling out two grand for a course. Within a year, you should be able to figure out if you're going to be able to make it work. It is a win-win in multiple scenarios. [19:46.6]
Let's keep going with the copy. Next, “At $199 per month, it's affordable enough that serious advisors can justify it”—there's that magic word—“without flinching, especially when you consider it's built from the ground up to give you a massive ROI. Here's some back-of-the-napkin math. Say you're a financial advisor currently making $150,000 per year. For the Inner Circle to pay for itself, it needs to help you increase your income by a mere 1.6%. Again, I obviously can't guarantee results because I don't know your specific situation or background. However, a measly 1.6% increase isn't that difficult to achieve. Heck, a 3.2% increase in your income would mean a 100% return on investment. Pretty cool, huh?”
So, that is one of my favorite ways to justify, especially with financial advisors, just pulling back the curtain a little bit, because financial advisors tend to be analytical and logical, and they think in terms of numbers. If I can just come out and say, “Look, this represents 1.6% of your business income. If I can’t help you increase your business income by 1.6%, then I probably shouldn't be doing this. I should probably hang up my marketing boots and do something else.” [20:55.5]
Another justification, here we go. We're going to keep going. “Another reason why the Inner Circle is deliberately affordable is because I don't have that much overhead to pass on to you. I don't have a fancy office in a trendy zip code. I don't have a bloated staff. That means you're not footing the bill for any of those things,” and that's true. If you've ever watched my videos, I'm just a guy in his office. I wear a hoodie. I don't have overhead. I don't have a lot of overhead. I like to keep things pretty lean, so I don't pass on that cost to Inner Circle members, so that is a way that it is very inexpensive.
The last one is this. “Finally, I want you to think, if this is only $199 per month, what else does James know? Yes, this is strategic, because if I can deliver a jaw dropping return at this price, you'll naturally wonder what else I could do for you. That's good business for both of us. Look, I could have priced this at $499 per month and slept like a baby, but I didn't, because I want it to be so absurdly reasonable that price isn't even part of the conversation. Instead, I want you to focus on ROI, results and progress. So, yeah, it's inexpensive.” I'm bringing up the objection here. People are wondering why it's so inexpensive, so I'm bringing it up. “Yes, it is inexpensive, but not because it's not valuable. I've engineered it that way to give serious advisors a ridiculous edge for a ridiculous price.” [22:10.5]
That's all the copy I'm going to read to you right now because we're running out of time. But the justification of not having a bloated staff, not having overhead, the justification of thinking, If this is only 199 per month, what else did James know? all of that is done intentionally. That's the main reason it is so inexpensive, because I've got other stuff, right?
I have other products, I have services every so often. I currently don't offer any services, but every so often, I will offer services. And guess who is most likely to buy the products and services? People who are already happy with other stuff that I offer. So, of course, I'm not going to be stupid and price it super high and make it insanely expensive, because then I will be shutting out a large segment of my market that would just eventually do other things with me, and we would make a ton of money together. That is an example of justification. Actually, not just an example. I gave you several examples. [23:04.1]
Now, here's what's really interesting about all of that. None of it would have worked if people weren't already thinking, Wait, why is this so cheap? Because when you align your message with what's already on people's minds, you're not convincing. You're clarifying. That is the difference between persuasion and resistance, and that's the big takeaway from this episode. You only justify when you're addressing real skepticism, not imagine skepticism. Please learn from my mistake, my big fat dumb rookie mistake.
If you would like even more information about how to justify what you charge the right way, visit TheAdvisorCoach.com/pricing. I have a 57-minute video all about how financial advisors can charge more, justify every penny and make prospective clients happy to pay. Once again, that's TheAdvisorCoach.com/pricing, and I can't wait to see you there. Either way, I will catch you next week. [23:59.1]
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