No! Don't go in there! Daddy's working.
Jonathan: Welcome back to another edition of Daddy's Working Podcast, and today I'm pulling double duty. I'm going to give you a sneak peek up the curtain of the Podcast Factory. You're going to get behind the velvet rope.
Last year, I did a newsletter for my clients. I called it The Podcast Factory Insiders and I used it as a way to answer questions, answer my clients’ most burning questions. And one thing that came up over, over and over again is “How do we get more downloads? I need more downloads. I want more downloads.” In Daddy's world, that's a silly question. [01:02.7]
So, this came from a newsletter titled Downloads Don't Mean Diddly, and I'm going to make the case for why you actually don't need more downloads. First, we're going to talk about the top three podcasting questions I get from all my clients. After that, I'm going to make the case for why you don't need more downloads. Then, I'm going to show you how you stack up in the world of podcasting. And, of course, I'll give you some ways to get more downloads if that's really what you're after, but I find most people aren't really after more downloads. And then, I'll share a little bit about click-worthy content.
First things first, the top three podcasting questions.
If you're listening to me right now, then you're probably interested in getting more downloads and you're not alone. This question has been asked of me over and over and over again from my clients, from the folks on my email list, from podcast listeners, from friends on Instagram. [02:06.4]
And, by the way, if you're not following me on Instagram, what are you waiting for? @riverathan. R-I-V-E-R-A-T-H-A-N. I do daily stories on Instagram, uplifting stories to start your day off right. So, get over there.
Now, back to the top three questions that I'm sure you've asked and I know that my clients have asked a million times.
- Number 1: “How can I get more downloads?”
- Number 2: “How do I stack up against other shows?”
- And Number 3: “How do I get him more ear holes?”
Look, I've always told you this and I'm going to tell you again, and I'm going to keep telling you this for as long as I live: downloads don't mean diddly. Today, I'm going to make the case for that. You won't have to take my word for it. In fact, I'll prove it to you. I'll show you the only true measuring stick you need for your show. [03:03.7]
Then, we're going to finish up with some unsexy tips on how you can increase the number of downloads you get, because I know you guys will not be happy unless I give you a tip or two on that. So, let's dive in.
You don't need more downloads, okay? Listen to me. Whenever my clients ask, How can I get more downloads? I know there's something wrong. So, I ask him, Hey, why do you need more downloads? Downloads are actually a vanity metric. They're not what you really need.
When I start digging in and asking more questions, what I always find out is that my clients want to make a bigger impact, and there are different ways that impact shows up. My favorite is in the dollars in your bank account. Yes, the bottom line. Forget about downloads and start looking at your bottom line. Are you making more dough, yo? [04:04.0]
That's my favorite, so I ask my clients, Are you making more sales than you were before you started the podcast? Are people quoting your podcast on sales calls? Are you noticing easier sales when someone has listened to your show? Those are the things that I look at and those are the things I tell my clients to look at.
I want to give you a little scenario here to put things into perspective, because to me, downloads don't matter. What really matters is conversions. Let me ask you a question. I’m going to give you two scenarios.
- Scenario Number 1: you have 50 downloads per month and 100% of your listeners book a call with you. Imagine the opportunities there.
- Scenario Number 2: you have 1,000 downloads per month and 1% of your listeners book a call with you. You might need to write that down. In the second scenario, you have 20 times more downloads, yet you end up with 80% less phone calls. That's the old Pareto principle at work. [05:11.8]
Most of you listening to this make your sales on the phone, just like I do, so the more phone calls you have, the more deals you close. It's simple math. That's why you’ve got to stay focused on what really matters—your bottom line.
The only people who should be worried about downloads are the folks looking to get sponsors for their show. In that case, most sponsors are looking for you to have at least 5,000 downloads per episode before they'll even consider working with you. When you look at what sponsors pay, these sponsors pay pennies. Last time I checked, they'll pay about $20 per thousand downloads. That means that a show getting 5,000 downloads, will get $100 in sponsor money for one ad.
Yeah, so let's compare that back to the first scenario, and I'll repeat it—Scenario 1 was you have 50 downloads per month and 100% of your listeners book a call with you. Fifty people listen. Fifty people get on the phone with you. [06:13.6]
Let's just say, for argument's sake, that you suck at closing. Okay, and I can't see this. If somebody comes from your podcast, I know the numbers would be much higher, but let's just say you're a terrible buffoon that can barely close and you get a 10% close rate. That means 50 calls will net you five new clients each month. Now, if you're selling $1,000-product, you brought in $5,000 in sales. This, my friends, is the reason why I always say the best sponsor for your show is you.
So, let's review. Downloads don't matter. Conversions do. If you've got the exact right person listening and an offer they can't resist, you can make great money with your podcast without worrying about downloads. All right, enough of that. Let's move on. [07:09.4]
How do you stack up? At the time I'm recording this, I'm finishing up my fourth year of Strategic Coach. During those four years, I've had the same coach, Kim Butler. She has been in the program for almost 25 years and she's a wealth of knowledge. In fact, I did an interview with her a while back—I'll link to it in the show notes—where she gives some insights on her journey in Strategic Coach and I think it's super useful, so look for that in this show notes.
Anyways, she works in the financial planning arena and I'm pretty sure that since she works in financial planning, she knows how the Wall Street companies report. When they're looking at their revenue and their growth, they compare their numbers from those of the same quarter last year. To put this into context, if it is January of this year and I'm recording this in 2020, I would look back at my numbers from January 2019. [08:15.8]
There are two reasons why they do this.
1. They want to make sure they're in the same season. Obviously, different seasons would net different numbers.
2. They want to compare against themselves.
Now, the reason I was so surprised when Kim asked me this question, How does she stack up? was because she was looking for outside validation that our show was doing well. And my response to her was simple. “Kim, those numbers sound good to me. What were your numbers last year?” The only way to know if you're doing good is to compare your numbers today to your numbers last year, last quarter or yesterday. If this story doesn't satisfy your curiosity, I've got you covered. [09:01.9]
Cupcake did some digging and got you some benchmark data from the world leader in podcast hosting, Libsyn. In case you guys don't know this, I use Libsyn for all the shows at the Podcast Factory. I love this company. They're the biggest hosts. They're very reliable and I highly recommend them. You can get this data if you wish at ThePodcastFactory.com/Benchmarks.
All right, how about some tips on getting more downloads? Now that I've made the case for downloads not meaning diddly, I thought it would be fun to give you some tips, and I've actually recruited some help on giving you ideas on downloads and how to get more of them. I'm going to call this section “Download Doublers.”
But I’ve got two people to help me here. One of them is a well-known speaker—I'm not going to say his name here for various reasons—and then, the other one is the VP of Marketing at Libsyn, Rob Walch. [10:04.2]
So, first some tips from this hall-of-fame podcaster. He speaks at all the conferences. I engaged him to do some consulting, and here go four tips that he gave me that I thought were super useful and I want to share with you on how to double your downloads.
1. The most obvious, get on other people's shows, especially if they have your audience, because someone who listens to one podcast, listens to five, and they're always looking for new contents. So, this is a great way to get new people listening to your show and get more downloads.
2. JV with other podcasters to do joint promos and list swaps. These folks already have listeners. They already have credibility. And if you can help build them up and they can help build you up, then that is a win-win.
3. This is one that I screwed up on and I shared this in Daddy's Biggest Podcast Mistakes, which I recorded a little while back. Make sure you tell people to subscribe in your content, as well as on your website. And so, I'll ask you right now, if you haven't subscribed to Daddy's Working Podcast, what are you waiting for? Go wherever you listen to podcasts and type in “daddy's working”, and click that subscribe button so you don't ever miss an episode. [11:22.2]
4. This is a fun one. Get people talking. Ask them questions and have them respond. Maybe use a hashtag on social media. For instance, what we use is #DaddysWorkingPodcast, which is kind of long and I might change that. But I never ask questions, so let me ask a question now. Is this helpful? Let me know. #DaddysWorkingPodcast. Yeah, I think I have to work on that because that just sounded painful. It felt painful.
Anyway, yeah, so there's a good start. Get on other people's shows. JV with other podcasters. Make sure you tell people to subscribe and get people talking. Pretty simple. [12:06.8]
But I know you and I know you want more, so I'm going to give you some tips from Libsyn. But, first, I want to tell you what Rob Walch. Did I say that right? Rob Walch, VP at Libsyn says:
1. Rob says, downloads don't matter if you have nothing to sell. Ta-da. It's one of the reasons why I talk people out of podcasting. If they've got nothing to sell and they're trying to sell sponsor spots, I tell them, Hey, get lost. Not really. I tell him to learn to sell and it offends people sometimes, but I'm being serious. I'm trying to help him. So, Rob is backing me up. That's why I'm sharing that here.
2. The other thing that Rob says that I love is you must have clear goals before you start, so you can measure your results, and this is simple. You've got to know what you want your podcast to do for you. Otherwise, you're wasting time. [13:01.2]
So, let's give you some tips that we got from the team over at Libsyn.
1. Chart to see if you have growth over the last quarter. They say to shoot for at least 3% growth, which for me would be a stretch. Clearly, I'm not doing something that I should be doing, but this is from the team at Libsyn.
2. If your goals are opt-ins, how many do you have?
3. If your goal is direct sales or your sales up or down.
4. If your goal is link clicks, have you created a trackable link that you only use on your podcast? And this is one of the things we tell our clients all the time. Create a Pretty Link, so you know what's going on or use a custom domain.
Let's go over those tips super quickly. Chart to see if you have growth; they say 3% per quarter. If you're tracking opt-ins, how many do you have? If your goal is direct sales or sales up or down. And if your goal is link clicks, do you have a way of tracking that? [14:03.3]
And I hear you guys now. Oh yeah, that’s so obvious. Yeah, it's obvious. There's nothing new under the sun, nothing new and shiny here. I'm giving you things that actually work, so you can go work them.
But I want you to remember, the Libsyn team has just verified what I've been telling you for years. Downloads don't matter. Conversions do. You should measure your growth against your numbers from last year, last quarter or yesterday, not against anyone else's numbers. And before you start a podcast, you should have clear goals and a way to track results to ensure you're getting an ROI.
If I asked you, What makes a great podcast? what would you say? Hit me up on social media. #DaddysWorkingPodcast. What makes a great podcast? Let me know. #DaddysWorkingPodcast. That went a lot smoother than my last one. See that? When you start putting in your reps, you start getting better. [15:09.5]
Anyways, if you asked me, I would say it has to be entertaining. It has to make you think. It has to be informative. But how do you measure that? You really can. It's objective. In my eyes, there's really only one measure of the greatness of a podcast. Do people take action? Nope. No surprise here. I'm from the old school of direct-response podcasting. If you can't measure it, then it doesn't exist.
Most people think you need to make offers at the beginning or end of your podcast to get people to take action, and that is a huge mistake. Why? Because in the beginning, people can come in late or they can decide to stop listening, and if you wait until the end, people may not hang around and then we'll miss out on your call to action. [16:05.1]
There's a very strategic place to ask for action. You won't be able to be ignored and people will be so hooked on what you're saying, they won't be able to resist you. I've been teaching this to my clients for years and I'm going to share it with you. It's responsible for tens of thousands of opt-ins and sales, and I created a short 30-minute video training on how you can do this, too. There's even a worksheet, so you can plan your episodes and get action. Want it? It's all yours.
All you have to do is go to ThePodcastFactory.com/Creating-click-worthy-content. That's going to be super hard to remember, isn't it? So, if you want my Click-Worthy Content training, just hit me up on social media @riverathan on Instagram or hit the hashtag #DaddysWorkingPodcast and ask me for the link to the Click-Worthy Content training. But I'll give you that one more time, ThePodcastFactory.com/Creating-click-worthy-content. [17:18.7]
All right, that is all I have for you today. We shared a lot here and I've said more than I know on this subject, so I'm going to call it a day. Thank you guys for tuning in and I'll be back in your ear buds next time.
This is ThePodcastFactory.com
