Welcome to the Masculine Psychology Podcast, where we answer key questions in relationships, attraction, success, and fulfillment. Now, here's your host, world-renowned therapist and life coach, David Tian.
David: Welcome to the Masculine Psychology Podcast. I'm David Tian, your host. In this episode, we'll be getting into the reality of what women really want in a man. If you don't know this, you will be left confused and scrambling when it comes to attracting women, especially if you end up in relationships with them, and the longer the relationship goes, the more this becomes important.
Now, of course, this question of “What are women most attracted to in men?” is a really important one and one that you'd have to get clear on before you have any kind of dating skills course. You can imagine that in my best-selling course, Invincible. We lay it out right from the beginning and we make it very clear, what are the things that women respond to and are attracted to. [01:05.0]
Several episodes ago, I devoted an entire episode to what women are attracted to when it comes to short-term dating and mating versus what they're attracted to and respond to and want in a long-term partner. The research has shown that there is a difference. They're looking for different things depending on if it's short-term playing or a one-night stand versus a husband.
In the episode I have in mind, I will focus on the more puzzling thing for most people, which is women's preferences when it comes to short-term mating and dating. But in this episode, I'm going to be examining it from a different angle and I'll introduce it by way of a question that I got from a listener, and so here's the excerpt from the question: “Do women still like men who are dominant, aggressive and masculine in relationships, or do they prefer men with emotions, etc.? I see a lot on social media about this topic. There are two sides to this debate. Both seem as fierce as each other. I don't care about the debate. I just want to know what women REALLY want from a man.” And the “REALLY” there is an all caps. [02:09.0]
Okay, so we've got this dichotomy here between what he calls “men who are dominant, aggressive and masculine in relationships” versus those who prefer men with emotions. Notice that he has mentioned relationships, so we're going to look at it in that context, not just for a one-night stand, but for relationships over time.
Notice also the three characteristics or qualities that he's mentioned here, dominant, aggressive, and masculine, and he's set that up against men with emotions. But notice, there are emotions involved, when you're being dominant, especially when you're being aggressive, and then there's this very vague concept that's undefined here, which is masculine in relationships, and, of course, there are emotions underlying being masculine as well. It’s not that they're devoid of emotions, but that there are different types of emotions, and which ones do they prefer? [03:03.4]
I expect that what he means by “Do they prefer men with emotions?” what he has in mind are more touchy-feely emotions, like connection and affection and being present, compassionate, willing to feel sadness, and maybe even positive emotions, like joy and happiness, which might even be a level of vulnerability that's not available to someone who's acting, quote-unquote, “dominant, aggressive and masculine.”
So, which side of the debate is correct? Do women want a dominant, aggressive, masculine man, or do they want a man who's more into emotional connection and presence and compassion, and love and romance? First I'll give the easy answer, and then I will problematize it and make it more sophisticated and nuanced and highlight the deeper reality at play here, and then I'll get into some of the how to. [03:57.3]
Okay, so to the question, “Do women still like men who are dominant, aggressive and masculine in relationships, or do they prefer men with emotions?” The answer is both. They want it all, men who are multifaceted and are both comfortable with their emotions, and can cry at funerals or at happy, touching moments, as well as can be dominant and aggressive and masculine. Men who display both sides of this dichotomy are more attractive than men who can only do one side.
If you can explore the stereotype of a man who has no touchy-feely emotions, no emotional connection, no compassion, or any kind of depth of emotion, but is like a 1980s action hero, dominant. Instead of the word “aggressive”, I'm going to swap that out for “assertive.” Aggression is about invading or attacking. That's generally not attractive. That's just a bully's energy. But assertive is defending and standing your ground for what you believe in, as an example of one way of being assertive. Aggression is attacking, sort of is defending, so I'm going to switch to this assertive because that's an attractive trait. [05:07.6]
So, dominant, assertive and masculine on the one hand, a sort of 1980s action hero, like I said, and then you've got men who are more into their emotions. And would they want both? Yes, obviously. If a man can do both, that would be better than a man who was one-dimensional on this dichotomy.
Okay, so that's the short answer. The short answer is, yes, both. If you're all just touchy-feely and you don't have any kind of assertive warrior-like energy, then you're one-dimensionally unattractive. If you're only all warrior, just dominant, assertive, and, quote-unquote, “masculine”, but you're missing the more tender emotions of compassion or connection, then that's not attractive either. At least, it's not attractive for any kind of long-term relationship. She may not care if she's just looking for a good lay that night, but the question that I was asked here is in the context of relationships. [06:05.0]
Now, here's the more sophisticated answer. It's not just these two options. There's a lot more that women find attractive that you haven't mentioned here. As just one easy example, women also prefer men who are artistic and an easy example of that is the many women who swoon and have been swooning for musicians and rock stars and pop stars since the beginning of time.
It's not that these men are classically very attractive. They're not symmetrical faces and like models. The most sexually-attractive among them are generally above average in attractiveness. But if they didn't sing or prefer music, they wouldn't be nearly as sexually attractive. If they were just a guy in their class, they wouldn't be as sexually attractive. It's when they perform that music in that way that triggers a kind of sexually-attractive response. [07:02.6]
There's a great book on why we have evolved, art, because it doesn't seem like it would matter for survival or replication. But it matters, it turns out, a lot for replication in the book is by Geoffrey Miller, a very famous evolutionary psychologist, and the book is called The Mating Mind.
In my day, I'm Gen X, the puzzle was to explain the sexual appeal of the glam rock singers and artists, like Guns N' Roses, Axl Rose and Slash, and Bon Jovi and Bret Michaels, and the list goes on. I just may keep going. Prince is another great example. These are men who incorporate a lot of makeup the way women do and have painted nails and eyeliner, and then they dress in very flamboyant ways. [07:50.6]
If you've watched the movie on Elvis Presley that recently came out, this is a great illustration of the kind of sexual gyration of the dancing and performing on stage, as well as the type of music that gets you going in a certain way and touches you emotionally, as well as the type of music that becomes kind of sexual and the way that they move with the music and the way that they sing are all kind of projecting their control of their sexuality.
In more recent times, you’ve got K-pop and the incredible exploding popularity of BTS and other boy bands, and recently, we’ve had the Jonas Brothers in One Direction and so many more that are sexually attractive to so many women around the world who are not your stereotypical ’80s action hero or not dominant, aggressive and masculine.
Most guys were raised with the sort of toxic masculinity of “just be tough and be the competition,” not realizing that that's so one-dimensional and boring to most people that you can't even make a movie about that because it's just so boring and predictable, and it's not that attractive to women, especially if it's more than one night. [09:02.8]
I mean, if they just wanted to bang a hot guy who kept his mouth shut and didn't show how much of a bimbo he was, they might just bang the muscular, good-looking guy, but just being dominant, aggressive and masculine, I guess like the stereotypical head football player dates the head cheerleader kind of bimbo-to-bimbo kind of pairing misses out on the much more prevalent reaction to more sexual emotions that are evoked in art, especially in music and pop culture.
That's just one of many examples. One other example off the top of my head is men who are funny, because humor displays intelligence and intelligence is attractive. Now, if you have just general intelligence but no relatability, in other words, you're just a nerd, so you're really smart, but you can't relate to most people and you can't relate to pop culture, and you're just a nerd who just does computer programming or something, but you're really good at computer programming, as an example, and just the fact that you're good at something that's highly intellectual is a bonus. It's a real plus. It's a good advantage. Women will be attracted to the fact that you’ve got that, because that will lead to more money or resources or advancements, right? [10:18.7]
So, that would be a good thing to have. They’d prefer a man who's intelligent. Easily, they’d prefer a man who's intelligent to a man who's dumb. But if all you are is intelligent, just like if all you are is a jock, then you're just this one-dimensional thing and you're not going to be attractive. You've got to have all of these different elements in order to be more attractive. I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but I keep getting these questions, so let me put that all to rest.
All of these good qualities, the more you have them, the more attractive you will be. If you are, at different times, able to access dominance, assertiveness and being masculine, as well as a man with “emotions, etc.,” as the man who wrote in put it, but you're also artistic and you're also highly intelligent, that's awesome. That's even better than if you only had one of those things. The more of them that you can have and display and embody, the more attractive and intriguing you'll be. [11:14.0]
Now, here's a list of qualities that women find attractive and that most women find attractive, and I'll just rattle them off. There is some overlap between these qualities, so they're not mutually exclusive or anything, and it's not even meant to be a comprehensive list, but I've collected this list of over 27 traits that most women find attractive.
So, here are some traits that most women find sexually attractive: confidence, charisma, wit, self-control, being funny, being popular, being indifferent to arbitrary social norms. Someone who's social, healthy, wealthy, powerful, intelligent, creative, ambitious, a leader, has good fashion sense, is well groomed, perceptive, has good tonality, dominant, is socially savvy, is strong physically, strong mentally, strong emotionally, is emotionally steadfast, is cultured, classy, has survival instincts, has quick reflexes, values himself and is hardworking. The more of these qualities you embody and project and present, the more attractive you will be to women. This is what women want. [12:28.7]
Now, returning to the original question that we were given, “Do women still like men who are dominant, aggressive and masculine in relationships, or do they prefer men with emotions, etc.?” and now we've added in different sides of it. I would add in, in addition to these warrior type traits, and in addition to more of the touchy-feely maybe connection or compassion type of qualities, the precise mix even of just those two sides is going to differ from woman to woman, just as for some men, they prefer women who are 80 percent sexy and maybe wild and unpredictable and fun, and then maybe 20 percent reliable and is on time and has a career, and stuff like that. [13:10.3]
And you might find men who have the opposite. They prefer a woman who lives a lifestyle that's more stereotypically masculine, who holds down a steady job and prioritizes that and gets things done, and then maybe 10 percent of the time, lets her hair down and can be a little bit wild, right? The exact mix is subjective and he's going to differ from person to person.
Some women will prefer a man who's more action hero, dominant and assertive most of the time, maybe stoic most of the time, and then maybe 20 percent, 10 percent, 5 percent of the time, sheds a tear or shows some emotional vulnerability, okay. But if you're just one dimensional on any of these dimensions, you're not going to be nearly as attractive as if you were to mix in some of the rest of the dimensions. [13:56.6]
The more of these qualities you can embody, the more attractive you will be, and then for any one individual woman, she's going to have her natural preferences for the proportion of 80 percent more warrior energy and 10 percent humor or something like that. That all depends on the woman. But do all women find these attractive traits attractive? The answer is yes, but to different degrees. If you want to be attractive and you want to embody what women want in a man, is it better for you to cultivate as many of these traits in yourself as possible? Yeah.
Now, obviously, that's not going to be available to everyone because we already have our starting points and a lot of this is actually genetic, like for introversion versus extroversion and a lot of your personality is already determined in your genes, but there is variability. You can shape your personality, and that's something I'll get to in a little bit. But first I just want to pull out and zoom out and point out the most important psychologically, psychotherapeutically, about this question and the questioner. [15:08.8]
No matter their physical strength, for many men, emotions are too much for them to handle. It's why they can't give women the deeper levels of emotional intimacy and connection that they crave. It's why they fail to be the man that modern women desire most: a man with inner strength, a man who has mastered his emotions.
Find out how to master your emotions through David Tian's “Emotional Mastery” program. The Emotional Mastery program is a step-by-step system that integrates the best of empirically-verified psychotherapy methods and reveals how to master your internal state and develop the inner strength that makes you naturally attractive, happy, and fulfilled.
Learn more about this transformational program by going to DavidTianPhD.com/EmotionalMastery.
That's D-A-V-I-D-T-I-A-N-P-H-D [dot] com [slash] emotional mastery.
I completely understand where the question was coming from. He wants to know what women really want. I'm assuming, because, like me back over a decade ago, it was because I needed to know what they wanted so that I could be what they wanted and attract them, and I'm assuming that that's what's behind the question, “Tell me what women want so that I can give them that, so that I can be that and give them that.” [16:26.7]
Notice the neediness in this question, and I've done a lot of episodes on neediness. The last one that I did was, a lot of it was on neediness, the episode just before this, and if there were just one trait or quality or characteristic to focus on, to build into your life, if what you want is to be sexually attractive to women, there's just one that you could pick and focus on, the 80-20 Pareto Principle, focus on that one thing that makes the disproportionate difference, it would be neediness, eradicating or overcoming your neediness. [17:00.0]
Now, notice the neediness in this question. I know that there's neediness in this question, not just because I feel it in reading it, but also because I used to ask this question and a lot of guys I knew were asking this question, and men all around the world are still asking this question, “What do women want?” not because they are CEOs of cosmetic companies or because they are writing books for women, I don't know, some chick lit or something. No, it's because they want to know what women want so that they can be that and attract women.
The implication here is that you can pick how you are, so you can choose to be more, in this for the questioner here, more dominant, assertive and masculine or he could choose to be more in his emotions, etc. I keep saying “emotions, etc.” as kind of tongue in cheek for the question because of the very fact that he's even called it “emotions, etc.” It shows that he's doesn't know actually very much about emotions. But, anyway, I like that, “emotions, etc.” It's a very dismissive way of describing this facet, “emotions, etc.” [18:02.6]
But the assumption here is, if you get the answer, it's either A or B. “Oh, it's A? Then I'll be more of A. Or if it's B, then I'll be more of B.” Notice what he's sacrificing here just to get women to like him. He's sacrificing his own personality. “Tell me what they want, because then I'll go and be that. Forget how I am now. Forget my own principles and values. Forget all that stuff. Just tell me what they want and, like a chameleon, I will do my best to fit what they want so that I can get them,” to get their attraction and whatever he wants to do out of that, right?
So, if you get them to be attracted to you, then what? I guess you can have sex with them. Then you can have a relationship with the one that you like the most or something. You try to get stuff from them, connection, sex, security, whatever it is, right? Instead of asking the non-needy question of “Who do I want to be?” regardless of what women think about that or judge it. “Who do I want to be? Who should I be?” And maybe even a bigger question is “What would a good human being be?” and now we get into values and principles. [19:08.6]
This is why in the lead up to every time I launch my course Invincible, which I launch once or twice a year, I have a video about why good men have an edge on attracting quality women, because if you're a good man who cares and thinks about your values and you live those out, then women are simply secondary to that and that means that you're not needy towards them in that sense anymore.
You're not willing to sacrifice your values or your principles, or how you are or your personality, or shaping your personality just to kiss ass to women, just to appeal to women. You have chosen why you are going to embody courage or cultivate confidence in yourself, or compassion or whatever, because you have independent reasons that are important to you that you've thought through, I assume, for embodying those. [19:58.1]
Do you think it's a good thing if a man is able to assert himself or to be, quote-unquote, “masculine”? Do you think it's a good thing if he can feel into his emotions? Right? That’s something for you to decide separately from whether it's sexually attractive to women. Don't do things just because they're sexually attractive to women.
Now, let's get real, there are plenty of things that we do in day-to-day life for men and women where they're doing it because it's sexually attractive, and if all else being equal, that's a perfectly fine reason to go with it. For instance, if I'm trying to decide which jacket to wear and I am on the fence about it, it's all the same to me, and then I find out that women like this Jacket B more, then I’ll just grab Jacket B, no big deal, because it didn't really matter to me. In those situations, when I have no compelling reasons to pick one or the other, then the fact that it's attractive to women is one consideration that might tip the scales in favor of that choice. [20:54.0]
But your personality, like what character traits in you you're going to encourage, cultivate and develop in yourself, that's almost everything. That's who you are and your character is who you are, and if you are going to sacrifice your character just so that women will like you, that's almost about as needy as you can get, and so many men are asking this innocently.
They have no clue how needy they actually are in the very asking of this question, not just out of kind of curiosity, intellectual curiosity, because maybe they work in evolutionary psychology or something, or maybe they work, like I said, for a cosmetics or perfume company and they wonder, Hmm, what would sell to women the most? They're not asking that with that reason. They're asking because they want to know so that they can decide who to be and that's the neediness underlying the whole thing, so that as soon as you begin to ask this question, if you're very good at personality shaping, then maybe you'll go kind of far. [22:02.7]
That was the case for me. I asked this question and I answered it, and then I went and embodied more of these traits and I became more sexually attractive, and yet that whole time, I was totally blind to my underlying neediness, which came to bite me in the ass later. So, it's possible to become a successful player or pickup artist while still being really super needy. It's just that you're turning off all the quality women and you don't even notice it, because they don't give you the time of day, so it doesn't even get on your radar.
Then there are plenty of needy women who will respond to needy men, and then you are mistaken in thinking that you're sexually attractive to all women. It's just certain women that are responding to you. Inevitably, 10 years later, after the rise in pickup artistry, it's devolved into this bitter, resentful, angry red pill, because what's happened? They've just only attracted the women who, at that point in their lives, were not high quality and had unresolved issues, psychological issues. [22:56.8]
So, they responded to the needy man who has papered over his neediness effectively with player type of behaviors and taken on these character traits and more of them, just because women like it, and then they can get women and do things with them and get things from them. But the whole time, they were actually needy, and it only hits them in the face when she cheats on him or he's not able to pick up the ones he wants anymore. You see this depicted over and over in all those pickup artists books, like the opening chapter of Neil Strauss’ book The Game where Mystery is suicidal because he can't get the girl that he wants anymore. Needy.
Okay, so if my message about neediness just goes right over your head and you're still asking the question as I know a whole bunch of you still will-- Maybe I shouldn't say “you,” because, generally, I expect my listener, especially if you're still listening, to be a lot more self-aware and mature than the average guy looking for dating advice on the internet. But you can say so or I can say with some confidence that most men will continue to look for how to be what women want in order to get women regardless of the neediness issue or regardless of what they've learned about the psychotherapy. They’re going to ask, “How do I do it?” [24:16.6]
Okay, so I'm going to answer this, the how-to, and this is helpful, regardless of whether you want to shape your personality or become more of anything, confident, calm, compassionate, or any of these character traits. If you want more of that in you, you can actually grow and develop and train so that these character traits are more a part of you, and you can start by doing an assessment of what your dominant personality is, your dominant personality type.
I recommend the Big Five personality model, and if you go to Jordan Peterson's website, you can find from there the Big Five assessment. I think it’s about 10 bucks, the last time I checked anyway, and it's well worth it. It's the most thorough Big Five assessment that I've found that is available to the general public. [25:08.0]
I just googled it right now. It is at UnderstandMyself.com. I have no affiliate relationship at all, so I get no kickback or commission in recommending this, but I just think it's great. I was on the beta version and got five accounts for free when they were testing it out and I had my whole team go through it, and the results were great. You learn a lot about yourself. You learn about your natural strengths, and so on.
Then from an IFS perspective, then the question becomes even more interesting, which is that the part of you that is online or parts that are online, when you're doing the survey or the assessment, are the ones that are being reflected in the assessment. So, be aware, and I think Jordan Peterson would agree with this as well, be aware that there are multiple parts of you, and on the Jungian archetypes, these are the Warrior, the Magician, the Lover, and the Sovereign. [25:56.7]
The assumption is that you have all four of those in you and they might be latent. They might be dormant. They might be hidden, but they're there, and the more of those parts of you that you can access, the more of those energies you can embody at different points in your life—more of that Warrior energy, if you are more of the touchy-feely emotions guy, or more of the Lover energy, if you're more of the stoic warrior, repressing-emotions type. Then, of course, there's also the Magician, which is the more the humor or the intellect, and then there's the Sovereign, the more leadership qualities.
These are just four archetypes. They're so many different parts of us in terms of parts that are sexually attracted to women.
I have developed, over the course of last couple of decades, many different parts, and I'm so happy that I've met them and have a connection and relationship with them, not because they are attractive to women and I want to use them for that, but because these are parts of me and I love them, and just having this relationship with them is the reward that's intrinsically valuable, far more valuable than how others might perceive these parts. [27:00.0]
You might know that, long ago, during pickup days, my moniker and my username was the Asian Rake, and that's because the Rake, as I learned what the Rake character was, I recognized, “Oh, there's a part of me that's like this. It really resonates with this type of style,” and the more that I embodied that, the more natural and powerful that part became.
I also connected with what I'm borrowing here from Robert Greene's really good book. I mean, it's well-written and incredibly entertaining. Even if you may not agree with some of it, it's really a good read and The Art of Seduction is the book I'm referring to.
In the beginning, the most valuable part of the book, in my opinion, for most people is the beginning, the first half of it where he goes through these different character types and one of them is the Rake. Another one of them is the Charismatic, and as I researched the Charismatic, I also had a part of me that really resonated with that and came out with that, and I developed a style that was dominantly Rake and Charismatic, but also involved some of the Dandy energy, and so on. [28:01.3]
I recommend to you, if you're looking to embody certain qualities that are maybe easier for you to do, for instance, if you're naturally a jock, there's a type of seductive style that will be easier for you than if you are naturally a poet or naturally as in however you are right now. Right? So, why make it a lot harder on yourself telling a poet to become like a jock, right?
If that's the case, then I recommend that you read and study and start with The Art of Seduction and the character profiles in the first half of that book, and you'll discover that there are lots of different ways of being that are all seductive, all attractive to women, and some of these styles are diametrically opposed. I'm pretty confident that there's a style of attraction or seduction that is going to be suitable for everyone depending on where they're at or everyman, so start there.
Then, from there, he quotes a lot of literature especially from traditional times in history, but also from modern literature, and he draws on a lot of historical examples and you can dig more into those. I highly recommend that you go to the original sources, the primary sources for those. [29:13.1]
I'm a trained academic, so it was relatively second nature for me to dig up the original sources and to read around it, and to reread with new eyes the ancient Chinese and ancient Japanese literature that he quoted, and learning a lot from that a new angle to appreciate the literature that I had read previously.
So, a much more sophisticated answer than that original question of “Do women like a dominant guy or a guy with all emotions, etc.?” They like a lot of different types of men, and the more of these different traits you can embody, the more curiosity you will invoke, the more intrigue, the more interest and attraction that you'll be able to generate. Especially in a long-term relationship, the more she gets to know you, the more of these different aspects of your personality are out there for her to explore and experience, the more attractive it will be. [30:06.2]
But, more importantly, notice the neediness and the question, the very question of “What do women really want so that I can be that, and I can change and sacrifice parts of me in order to be that, just so I can get the women?” That's actually coming from a place of neediness, and that itself will undermine, in the long run, the whole project, because it will undermine your attractiveness. Even though you might be able to adjust in the short term to become more attractive in the short term, in the long run, your neediness will sabotage the whole relationship.
I know from personal experience, so take it from me. I've done both roads where, yes, I found out what women want and then I went through a lot of effort to embody it and to cultivate that in me, and did personality shaping on myself and hypnosis and all kinds of things to become more of that so that I can attract more women. [30:58.0]
Then I experienced the downfall of that and the underlying neediness there that finally came rearing its ugly head and became unmistakable in my face and I couldn't deny it any longer, and then that sent me down a deep, dark road that eventually led to a great triumph and the greatest learning in my life. I think I'm still on that journey and enjoying it.
But I'd like to save you, hopefully, some heartache and unnecessary pain so you can just avoid the whole needy journey and go right to, if you can recognize it, the neediness underlying it and go right to it, and use the therapeutic process to address the underlying neediness.
But if you still want to go the other route of personality shaping, I recommend that you start with a good personality assessment. They're fun to do anyway and they're fun to learn about your dominant parts and the personality that they are, and you can start with Jordan Peterson's Big Five assessment. I also recommend for fun, and also because it's not only fun to know, but it might even help you to get to know some of your parts that are naturally seductive that are maybe hidden or only in potentiality and need some training and encouragement, and you can learn about those seductive styles in Robert Greene's book The Art of Seduction. [32:16.0]
Hopefully, now the answer of “Yes, both and more” as the answer to “What do women want, this or that?” is sufficient at the moment to turn you towards the neediness underlying the question. If you like this podcast, subscribe on whatever channel you're listening to this on, and let me know what you think. Send me your comments. I love to read feedback and comments. And please share this with anyone else that you think could benefit from it.
Thanks so much for listening. I look forward to welcoming you to the next episode. David Tian, signing out. [32:47.6]
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