0:10 All right, what is up? Welcome to this week's episode of the Dan Barrett podcast. I am the titular Dan Barrett. Welcome to the show. So happy to have you here this week, we have a challenging and a fascinating and fun conversation with Mason Sawyer. You can find Mason over at the 1090 podcast. You can also find him at 10 so the number 1090 but spelled out rule at on Instagram. So that's the number 1090, rule. Find him over there as well. Mason is a public speaker. He's a podcaster, and he talks about grief, and he talks about the impact of losing people, of having your life disrupted, and what that's really like, and not just that, but what it's like to then take that experience and use it as a way to talk to other people going through similar things, to connect. And he's a really fascinating guy now, Mason, and I don't get into his story on the podcast, mostly because I know he's told this story a lot, and I didn't think it was the most interesting part of what he does. But for context, on July 25 of 2021 Mason lost his wife, son, daughter, brother and nephew, all at once in a completely unexpected and tragic car accident, and the impact of that day on Mason's life has been obviously profound. But the thing that I find most interesting about Mason, and the thing that I sort of take on the most into my life, is his decision to use that as a way of communicating with and connecting with other people like he is clearly a person who's set on building something from that experience, and he doesn't pull punches. He doesn't pretend that things are easier than they are. He is a truly honest and clear voice on a subject that, frankly, none of us like to talk about, and people are sort of loath to bring up, and so I really wanted to have him on the show and to have this conversation. So without any further ado, let's get into this fascinating and challenging and interesting and really, really enlightening conversation with Mason Sawyer from the 1090 podcast. All right, what's up, everybody? Daniel Barrett here, and I am here with Mason Sawyer from the 1090 podcast. You can find him online on Instagram at 1090 rule 90 is spelled n, i, n, e, t, y, so 10, the number 1090 rule on Instagram. Mason Sawyer, welcome to the show. Man, thank you so much for
3:05 being here. Yeah. Man, we already had some good laughs. And yeah, I'm looking forward to this one. So thanks for having me on. Dan. This is the the secret of podcasting is, if the pre recorded conversation goes okay, the main one will probably be okay. Yeah.
I don't know if I was like, and then it's like, it's just a total dick. And then you turn on the recording button. You're like, now I'm nice. And you're like, Oh, I see how it works. All right. Well, let's you've, you've obviously got a podcast, so you're doing a ton. You're also doing sort of like public speaking, you've got a lot going on. So I wanted to start with grief, which is a big kind of part of what you talk about. It's a big part of your story, kind of how you started on this journey. And I wanted to ask you, what you think people get wrong about grief, because I think our culturally, we have like, a conception of what grief is, what it'll feel like if people haven't experienced that yet, they've got kind of a thing in their head that's like, you know, that's, that's what grief is. But for you, you not only have your own personal experiences. You've now talked to a whole lot of people with similar experiences, right? You've gotten exposed to a lot of different people's take on that. So what do you think we get wrong about grief? Great
4:27 question. I interviewed this guy named Dan Campbell. He had two teenagers killed by a drunk driver. He was driving the car hit him, and I had him on my podcast, and I kind of asked him the same question, and he said, Jason, the number one thing people told me after my kids died was, Dan, I'm so sorry, but there's no words. I don't have any words. There's nothing we can say. Yeah, and Colin in his book. Talks about how, well, what they're really saying is, we can't talk about it. It's so bad, there's nothing to say. And then as Bucky talks about how, like, that's the worst thing you can tell someone in grief, because the number one thing they need to do is to talk about it. And it's really difficult to talk about it. There's lots of emotions involved, and the person experiencing grief might not even know where to start because they're so confused. Like, do I start with the angry guy, the depressed guy? Like, where do we begin? And so Colin did a great job of explaining to me and to our listeners that it's hard to find the words. It's not going to be easy to talk about, but the idea is, you put yourself through this process of finding the words, and that's why he, he labeled his book finding the words. So I think that's one is, is this idea of how much we talk about it, when we talk about it is totally not good, like we don't talk about it enough, and then another, I think another one would be acceptance. I think a lot of people have this idea that you work through the stages of grief, you get you get to acceptance, and you're good. And that is, I can be an acceptance on Tuesday and in denial on Wednesday, yeah, and that that's, that's a big one too. Is the pain never goes away. It's a lifelong sentence when you lose the person you love most, and it's just very up and down, left, right. There's nothing linear about it. It's very chaotic. And acceptance isn't a one day thing. Acceptance is a daily battle. And on days that I have, my bad days or days I can't accept it, and those are really rough days, and it's hard to get out of bed and stay out of bed and be nice to other people and be a good dad and all those things. So those are the two things that came to my mind. Would the amount of how much we talk about it isn't enough, and our idea on acceptance, I think, is isn't correct usually.
7:08 Yeah, the Stages of Grief thing is so interesting to me, because I know it's like the woman who came up with the stages of grief, she was working with elderly people who are sort of like transitioning into the last stage of their life. And I think she later said, like, well, it wasn't meant to be for everyone, oh, yeah, but it was, like, it's so embedded in everybody's brain now where we like, Yeah, well, you had bargaining and blah, blah, blah, and it's like, and what's funny is, I was a high school psychology teacher, and I taught the stages of grief, yeah, for years, I taught it and I just, I taught it so bad, I wish I could go back and be like, okay, but the stages are very real that she mentions. I mean, whoever up with it, like that part she got right for sure. But the way I've experienced grief anyway it I've been in and out of all of those, I've been in one of those phases for months, like denial. I'm pretty sure I was in denial for several months. Yeah, and then other days, you seems like you flip through all of them in one day or one minute even. It's just very you don't have a lot of control of your thoughts and emotions, at least I didn't, and so you're just kind of controlled by the grief. But I think, again, I think that's why talking about it's really important. If you talk about it, you're able to have a little bit more control over the monster, instead of it just owning you. So
8:31 let me ask you about that, because you are now. So we mentioned the 1090 podcast, that's your podcast, right? And you are now. I don't want to say, like, in the business, that's not the right word, but you have a practice now of having these conversations with people on a on a regular basis. And I think for a lot of people, they don't, they don't have a lot of conversations like that, right? Yeah, so I'm curious, like, for being in this situation where you've had these experiences, and I'm sure, like, people want to talk to you about it, but maybe they don't know how. Or they're like, I don't know, I don't know what to say. Or they're like, they make it like about them in this weird way. Or they make it very anxious about it, right? Like, people aren't good at having so, like, what is, first of all, I want to ask, like, what's your experience being on the on that end of it, where people want to talk to you, but they don't know what to say or how to bring it up. And then after that, I want to talk about your experience being in the host, chair of the podcast. But like from your perspective, where do people go wrong in terms of having those conversations with people who are going through grief? Does that make sense?
9:39 Yeah, I It's funny that you asked that, because I probably last week, I was hanging out with one of my best buddies, named Ryan, and he also does all my editing for the podcast, and so we're with we're with each other a lot, and he's like, and he's like, Mace, like, I just wanted to talk to you, and I. Ask you, like, how you're doing, and like, I'm so sorry and all this stuff, but I just don't know when to bring it up, and I'm scared. Like, if I do bring it up, then you're gonna break down, and I don't want to ruin your day, right? I'm like, I know you got stuff to do later on, yeah. And he's totally right. Like, when do we talk about, do we want to ruin each other's day before we go to work. Like, when do we want to have this terrible conversation? I just remember laughing at him and like, Ryan, like, I know that they're dead. They're on my mind. 24/7, so it's not going to be like, Oh yeah, my wife and kids and brother and nephew are dead. Like, it's always I forgot. And then, yeah,
10:44 right, so. And then he and I use humor a lot to deal with, with heavy stuff, but so we kind of were laughing and crying. But no, I think that's that story is a good example of how a lot of people friendships like they don't know. They're just walking on eggshells, like when we talk about this. And I, I'm a big fan of therapy, not because the therapist is a genius or it's going to fix all your problems, but I love the idea of therapy is it's on the schedule. Yeah, you have time carved out where you're going to go here, and you have an hour or however long it is to unload and talk about this. And I think that is, that is we need that in our society, because it's or we got to get a lot better at talking about it in casual, day to day life, but like, we need an outlet for people to talk. And I think that's one of the advantages therapy does, is simply, you're scheduling a time and place to talk about it. So
what has it been like for you to be in the the interviewers chair? Right? You've got a lot of different types of people on your podcast, a lot of different types of experiences. Some are similar to yours, some are different than yours, and you are kind of, ironically, you're same thing. You're carving out that time to have that kind of conversation with someone. What's it been like for you to be on that side of the equation?
12:06 Now, I've learned a lot. I've been humbled a lot. I think another part about grief that no one really talks about is there within all these emotions, there is an element of ego, at least for me, like, how dare you give me advice you just lost your wife. I lost my wife and kid and or, How dare you you just lost your grandma. And so there is like this, and it's combined with such anger from losing the people you love. And I thought I was smart, like I thought I had, like, cool things to say, because I lost so much for some weird reason, like, maybe I have something, maybe people will listen like, I don't have a it's there's nothing cool that I'm saying. What I've learned through my podcast is, I don't need to say anything. Really, I don't there's nothing like but what I can do is listen. And when I started doing that and talking less and listening more, I I realized that, oh, like, I'm not alone, and oh, my story is not the worst story. There's other people out there, just as bad stories of mine, if not worse. And I've had these people on, yeah, and so that was very humbling to me. And then I realized, and this is, this is just gonna sound weird, but because, like, no duh. But then I realized, like, oh, like everyone's hurting, like we are all grieving, and if you're not, you will just give it a little time, but where the person you love most will die eventually, and that totally like that was so humbling for me, and completely flipped how I saw myself and my family, and gave me a lot of humility and and that was that was really healthy for me. But I guess, back to your question. I think it's about listening, man, and just giving. I've had so many people when they come on my show, wow, I haven't talked about this since the funeral or Wow, I've never talked about this. Wow, really. And it's like, whoa, like, and they get through it, and then they so, they they're so I've never had anyone on my podcast that after we're done, they're like, I mad we talked about it wasted my time? Yeah,
14:30 no, I've never heard anyone say that ever they all feel great, and it's because when you talk about it, it does hurt, but they also feel alive when you're talking about those dead ones that you love like in the moment, they're there again, and it's also terrible. And that's another thing I learned, is the pain and and the joy from it is located in the same spot. So if you run from the pain, you're missing out on on the joy you had with that loved one. And so there's a couple things I've learned through pot. Casting is, is it's not about me, it's about us, and it's not about trying to solve the problem. It's not about trying to make their pain go away. It's not about it's not about that. It's just about letting them talk and be heard and be understood, and that's kind of the goal with my podcast. I mean, it's interesting that you talked about therapy, right? And you talked about, you know, you've had the podcast, and both of those are kind of like, connected by this thread of, there's something in the act of taking what's inside you and putting it into words in front of another person, like, that's the classic. It's like, back to Freud. It's like, he's not even gonna say anything. He doesn't say anything. It just, I don't know it, does cocaine and stares at you, whatever he did, right? But the whole point is not what he says. It's the point that you're saying it to him, and there's something about that, right? So I'm curious, like, if the goal, and I you know, it sounds right to me, what you're saying, like, the goal is not to, like, get past it or fix it, right? It's not a fixable problem, right? So what is happening in those moments where you're able to talk about it? Do you come out of it a little lighter, or does it help you to cope with it? Like, what do you get out of that process of talking or, what do you think your guests get out of that process of talking it out? For me,
16:19 I'll just use the I did a podcast with this guy named Maui. His son was his son and ex wife were murdered in a in a drug deal gone wrong, and just listening him talk, I don't feel crazy. I feel connected with someone because I felt crazy for a while because everyone was just trying to take my pain away, like it'll be okay. You'll see him again. It's all part of the plan. But I don't feel okay. I don't feel okay, yeah, and so I feel crazy, like, is it me? Am I? What am I doing wrong? Like, I still hurt so bad. And so then there's that I'm just questioning myself. But then when I hear Maui talk about how, no, like, I wake up and want to die every day, but I can't, because my kid, my other kid, right me, and so I feel like, wow. Like, maybe I'm not crazy, maybe I'm doing okay, maybe how much I hurt is appropriate. Still, I interviewed Nancy Saltzman. She lost her husband and two kids in a plane crash in 1996 1996 and I asked her the pain, like, tell me about the pain 28 years later, and she's, like, still there, yeah, and I love that. I mean, I hate that for her, but I love that because for me, like, that's what it feels like. So what it's done for me is it's given me a community. It's given me people that I can connect with, something I belong to, and everyone that I do, uh, podcasts with, we, we all have the same joke, like, it's the worst group to be in. Like, no in this group, but you're in it, and it is a strong group. And again, talking about it connects you those other people. And for me, it's hard. Everyday Life is hard because it's a balancing act. So you you want to hurt and you want to feel pain every day because you lost them and you love them, and it isn't fair and it shouldn't have happened, and it hurts. And so you want, I want that at least like I want to think about them and talk about them and honor them, but it happened, and me and my son blue, who survived the car accident, we have a life to live. And so if we're just in this constant state of grieving, then it's going to be hard to have a good life for blue. It's hard to move on. So the podcast allows me this balancing act where I can talk about Courtney Riggins, Frankie race writer, I can cry about them. I can turn that pain into purpose, and now after that, then I can have a good day, and I can be in the moment with my son and my girlfriend, Sammy and other people I care about. And that's my whole podcast. I mean today, to be completely honest with you, Dan, today's been a hard day for me. Not sure why, but I just been crying a lot this morning, hard to get out of bed after I talk with you. I think my day is going to be much actually. I know my day is going to be much better just because I get to talk about it for a little bit. Yeah, there's real truth to that. If I can cry and talk about them, it just makes the rest of my day easier, instead of this is in my head, and I'm not telling anyone, and I'm in the grocery store and I'm saying hi to these strangers and no one know, and I feel great, and it's just like you want to scream. And so I think that's what my podcast does for me and blue and other people that listen, is that balance of always honoring them, but moving forward with the pain. I think
19:39 there's definitely, there's really something to the idea of you can have something inside, like, the more you hold it down, it's like, the more it's like, the pressure builds, right? Like, you're just pressing it down and like that. That just increases the amount of pressure to try to get it out. So I, I appreciate you so much, man. Like, the the thing that you have done. On with all these experiences, like in, not just here, right? But like in, in your speaking, in your podcast, like all these choices that you've made along the way, you keep putting yourself out there where it's like, I honestly don't think that's what I would have done, you know I mean, like, I don't know what I would have done, but probably something anti social. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I that's what I did the first year. Yeah, so let's talk about the decision to, the decision to do all this stuff. So why don't you tell people? So why 1090 like, tell people what 1090 means, what's that? What the What's that's all about? And then we're going to use that as kind of a jumping off.
20:38 So I got it from the quote, life. 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it. Think it's like a Lou Holtz quote, or, I'm not sure who came up with it, but so I actually remember is right around the year mark of the of the car accident that killed him, and I just, I wanted to, I was just kind of laying around and drinking myself to sleep and death, basically, and just couldn't handle it. So remember, the earmark is coming around, like I want to not do this anymore. I want to do something about it. And I also wanted to tell people thank you, because I had so. I mean, people across the world reached out to me and and were did something for me, or a comment, and I just, I haven't really said anything to anyone, and I wanted to say thank you, and just tell everyone that me and blue are okay. And I don't know, I just wanted to do something. So I wanted to start a podcast and talk about it. And I mean, like you, it's hard to come up with a name, right? Podcast, yeah. Why you gonna name this thing? And then my dad, he sent me that 1090 quote. And he's like, you know, Mason, if, if there was anything we could do to go back and get any of them back or to change it, we would, but we can't. And this has happened, like it's happened, and really the only thing we have left, or really the only thing we have control over now is, how are we going to respond to it? And I just, I loved the quote and the message he sent me so much that I'm like, Man, this is perfect for my podcast. Like, this is basically what it's about. Like, it happened and like, what are we gonna do about it? It's all we have control. And it was perfect. So I named it the 1090 podcast. And on the year mark of the car crash, I did, I uploaded my first podcast episode, and I gave my first speaking event. I just went on Instagram and said, I'm talking about it. Got a room at Utah Tech University. It's free. If you want to come listen, you can 250 people showed up the room with hack, and I did it. I spoke for about an hour and 20 minutes, and from that people, I people reached out to me, and it would be all sorts of groups that wanted me to come talk to their team, or to their group, or to their business company, whatever, juvenile detention center, I mean, whatever it was. And I just kept talking and honest, like, yeah. I just, I keep getting like, you asking me to come on? Like, yeah. And people keep asking me to come on. And so I keep talking about it. And honestly, it helps me. I didn't know it helped other people, like it has i i just thought I know I needed to talk, like I need to talk, and then I learned, like, wow, like, this is helping other people. And so, yeah, man, I just here we are. Keep talking.
Hey guys, hope you enjoyed part one of this episode. It's just too good to limit to one show. Join us next week to hear the rest you.
