0:00 Dan. All right, what's up, everybody? This is Dan Barrett, and this is the Dan Barrett podcast, where every week, we talk about building awesome businesses and living awesome lives. What do you got to do to make yourself effective and fulfilled? That's what this show is all about. And this week, this was like a personal this was a personal goal of mine, to have this person on the show. This is like this podcast, basically turning out to be Dan Barrett fanboys over people, people he likes. And this was a really exciting one for me, because I got to talk to Pastry Chef Kim Huang Wood. Now, Chef Wood is a truly incredible person who owns a pastry shop near me that's called lay bun. So that is L, E, like, lay like the French and then bun, like, B, A, N, H. Now the thing that makes this particular place so incredible is that, yes, the pastries are amazing. It's one of the best bakeries I've ever been to. But there's also this really interesting stuff happening between this sort of classical French pastry tradition and Chef Wong woods, sort of Vietnamese background. And, man, it is just so great. And the more I learned about this person, the more I was super fascinated by her. You know, she sort of did all this classical French pastry training. She went on the Food Network. She is running the kind of business that I absolutely love, that I am just I am absolutely in love with, which is a business that is dedicated to one deep self expression of a true sort of thesis about what that business can be, a true act of self expression through the medium of business, and someone who is so dedicated to her craft to like true excellence, right, being not just okay, being great. And I think that puts her in the sort of lineage of businesses, like, if you've ever read the business book, Let my people go surfing by Yvonne schwanard, I'm gonna absolutely mangle that. I'm so sorry, but the founder of Patagonia, right?
I read that book very early when I was thinking about starting my own business, and it really convinced me you can run a business the way you want to run a business. You can run a business not purely designed for absolute maximization of every single last dollar, but built around an ethical ideal, or built around an esthetic ideal like it convinced me that I could make a business that represented me. And the first time I ever went to labor, I had the exact same feeling right, where I'm like, this is the kind of business that convinces me we can use this incredible, incredible vehicle for, you know, making money and personal growth and all that stuff. We can use it for something truly profound. And I absolutely loved getting to talk to Kim. She's a truly incredible person. She's so giving her time. And this was a super fun sort of rambling conversation where we get into the weeds on all this stuff I've always wanted to know about. What is it like learning to be a pastry chef. So without any further ado, let's get into my conversation with Chef Kim Huang wood from lei bun. All right, what's up? Everybody? Daniel Barrett here, and I am here with Chef Kim Huang wood from Les bun, Patisserie. God, that's really hard for me to say, but got that right? It got it right? Yes. Thank you chef. Thank you so much for being here. I really, really, really, was looking forward to this, and I appreciate you giving me your time. So thanks for
4:12 that. You're welcome. Thank you so much. I'm it's a pleasure to be on your show. Yeah, well, I am very curious about a million different things about what you do and what it's like. But I want to start with you, kind of going back to the beginning a little bit, and I'm curious if you remember the first time you really wanted to either become a chef or kind of get into the industry that you're currently in. Do you remember when that started for you? When it started was not really, I don't remember when it started, but I just know that I love baking, just because I am good at it. I never really started baking and knowing to want to go specifically French pastries until I was a junior in college. Oh no, I'm sorry, a senior in college to go. Shy of graduating with a accountant degree and of anything, right? And so then I'm like, You know what? I kind of want to stop school, like, you know, not finish school and go to culinary school. And then me being in a very Vietnamese family who, you know, immigrated here from Vietnam. And you know, the American dream is to have a good education. Knowing that my parents is like, Hell, no, you're not gonna drop out of college and go to culinary school, but anything. So once my parents heard of it, they're like, No, you only, you know, you only two classes shy of, you know, graduating. Why don't you just finish and then do whatever you want to do. So I and now thinking back, I should have stayed with accountant, but I went ahead and just finish up my bachelor with a business degree and just call it a day. And but now thinking about should have finished, because account is really helpful with for me right now, though, but yeah. And then after that, I went down to move down to Houston for a, you know, just like a technical school of French pastries in specifically, and what kind of led me to it? Well, not led but like, it was a good opportunity.
It was a good education there. But the most thing that I've learned about about more of the French pastries and stuff, was my opportunity to work for Exxon Mobil, and during that time, I work from bottoms up, like, you know, doing just the minimal baking, but my French executive French pastry chef Frederick lair took me under his wings, and he taught me literally every single thing that what traditional French pastries are supposed to be, how it looks, what the texture is supposed to be, the taste, the balance of flavors, and you know, every part of the ingredients has sugar in it. However, combining it together isn't it brings in, it brings and heightens the flavor more, if that makes sense, without, like overwhelming the senses of just sugar. Yeah. So I owe a lot of my skills and stuff from actually working with working and being mentored by him for a very long time. So in a roundabout way, sorry, that's not what kind of one you ask.
7:22 Oh, that's perfect. That's super perfect because you put out, like a lot of different things that I was very curious about. So this is, this is a perfect on ramp into this. I'm curious. So when you were where you said you were your a senior in college, when you kind of first started to get the bug on, knowing this is something you wanted to do enough that you were considering dropping out of school. So were you just cooking for friends? Like, were you baking for friends? Like, where? What were you doing in college? That sort of taught you that this was something that might be important for you, because I'm, I'm always really interested in people who make a change in order to pursue something that they love, right? So you're going down the accounting path, it was clearly compelling enough to you to consider making that jump. So what were you doing in college that kind of taught you that was something that you might be able to do at
8:13 that time, I was just baking for my family and friends, and nothing special. I mean, just at home, baking, and then, you know, bringing it to to work. You know, I was in college while working as a server on campus corner. So I would bake and then bring it to my co workers and eat. And then I do remember telling one of my customers there, I'm like, Hey, one day, I'm going to open my own business of bakery. But knowing, not having, like, any, any, like knowledge, or, like, tech, technical stuff about it, about, you know, like French pastries. But just know that I want to open business, and also it has to be pastries, so and so I said that, and then, now and then, you know, it's funny that, yeah, I just never, never did once get paid for baking during college or, you know, even at home. But that actually, that customer, he he was the one first one. He was like, hey, you know, bake me something. And I'm like, what? I'm like, No, I'll bake something for you. And he was like, yeah, just bake me something and I'll pay for it. And I'm like, Hell, no, you're not gonna pay me anything. And so, so I brought it, and I think I remember I brought, I made a cream puff, terrible looking cream puff, terrible. And he was like, this is the best thing ever, and I'm not. And he just shoved money. I mean, I'm like, hell no, you're not giving me money. And, and I remember he he made me accepted $1 that he signed, and I, I still have it. And I guess that was my very first customer, in the sense of, like, my, you know, baking, which is the most terrible cream pop
9:49 ever. Want the dollar, but whatever, I love this. So cool. I mean, it's so cool to have the dollar still, you know what I mean? Because it's really, that's really the beginning. So you're, you. You mentioned your family's Vietnamese that they immigrated from Vietnam. Did you have sort of that French style of pastry in your kind of family food culture, right? Because French Vietnamese food is very intertwined historically. Was that something that you grew up with at all, or was that something that you sort of found later? No, definitely,
10:20 you, you, you know the history of Vietnam and French, but yeah, definitely, as you mentioned, like French colonized Vietnam and a lot of our culture, our food, our language, is very French case, and I think that's why I lean toward more French pastries. Is growing up while you know my parents, we immigrated here while we were, you know, super poor my parents, every now and then would in my favorite dessert that I like is actually cream puffs. And when we go to, like, the Vietnamese grocery store in Texas, they have cream puffs every time, and that's like a treat. So every time I, you know, my parents able to buy one. It's just like, you know, it speaks volumes to me. And knowing that I want to learn how to make it and, you know, make it better, in a way, it's kind of makes me want to go toward French pastries. And I don't know the beside from my culture, why I go to a French pastries. It's also what I love about French pastries is the delicateness of it, the fragile of the pastries. Meanwhile, taking a bite of it, it's like different flavors. You get sweet, bitter, salty, all different senses of like flavor in your mouth. And then on top of that, it's like different textures there.
There could be a soft texture, the cream texture, the crunch texture, all in one bite, and you're like, What the hell is going on in my mouth? Like in one bite of like cream puff, or a root tart, or whatever. It just that to me, speaks very much of a high volume to me in the sense of why I went toward French pastries, because thinking one dessert could bring this much different filming makes me want to offer and learn how to make it for another person to be able to enjoy as much as I did, you know? And why I love American pastries, but it's just one note, you know, one note of just sugar and one note of, let's just say, cupcake, right? It's just one note of cake and a tons of cream on top. And that's just one note, or maybe two note, like soft the creaminess of the buttercream and then the the cake, right? But then when you eat it together, all you taste is sugar. You don't taste any like different freshness to it. And I'm not bashing American cultures or desserts, but like it, just to me, it just seems very bland compared to, like, French pastries. If that makes sense.
12:55 Yeah, it does so. You mentioned that you were an accounting major, right? And you sort of moved into baking, which is, again, I'm not a baker, right? But the my perception of baking in the larger world of cooking is that it's very exact, right? Like, very exact thing, right? So, like, you get, like, a recipe for, like a pasta, and it's like, I don't know, throw tomatoes, you know, just kind of whatever, where you get a recipe for like a baked good, and it's like 42.7 grams of this thing, right? So every time you talk about particularly French pastry, right? You are talking about these big kind of artistic, esthetic things like the combination of flavors and the way it feels and the way it's it's fragility and all these things. So do you feel like you are a very detail oriented person, and that's how you kind of pulled into it, because there's a really interesting mix of being very detail oriented and also having these, like big artistic esthetic visions of what you want to do. Do you feel like your personality is, like a mix of those two things.
14:03 My personality is all over the place. Yeah, yeah, in, in the in, so I feel like I have two different things. So I in my, in my personal life. I'm very chaotic and very in the sense of, I was very curious about, like, yeah, my personal life, my family life. Like, I'm very chaotic. I'm very spur of the moment, and very, I mean, still very detail oriented, like, I, you know, I, if I plan a trip for my family, I would be like, Hey, I'm gonna, we're gonna go this, this and this and this, right? But then, because my job or my my career takes me very detail oriented, like you said, yeah, like, I have to, sometimes have to let go now, in my detail oriented, or else, I now realize that, you know, I work with a lot of my team, right? And not everybody is as passionate as I am. And in faking wise, they there have been, I cannot commend them. Um enough that they work with me, and also they're great people. But I also have to step back, because I'm so detailed and oriented in my pastries. I am very particular about certain things, how it looks, how it tastes, how it stinks, and to me as a business owner, I'm terrible because one like I was just telling what my Baker, Sam, it does.
It doesn't look good. I just gave away a broken cookies, and it the cookies just cracked a little bit. And I'm like, Absolutely not. We're not selling that. Yeah. And then, like, if my in our croissant, it just sunk one little bit, not many people would notice. I'm like, Absolutely not. I'd rather give my, oh, my my workers to eat it for breakfast or lunch or whatever, or I just give it to a customer I am absolutely not, will not get a salad at all. And I feel like if and that that personality detail is a little too extreme, I feel like a certain time, but I also don't think it's too extreme, because I like to hold a standard for myself every single time, every single day, and every day is different, every time is different. Like today, there are, there are things that I can't do well, and whether it is the my, you know, my the environment, like if I wasn't sick, or if I was not feeling it, or or anything happened if I don't put my 110% that day and the dessert turns out bad, I will absolutely will not sell it. And in that sense, the detail oriented is terrible in that sense. But so that's why I kind of balance out my personal life, where it's kind of like a little bit chaotic. I try not to be too detail oriented in that sense. But yes, it's, it's hard,
16:40 yeah, I also own a business, right? So I'm a business owner, and I think what, one of the things that I struggled with a lot in the past, when you start hiring people, you start working with people, is really trying to understand that it's your baby, but it's not their baby, right? It's like, it's, it is, they could be the best at their job, but it's still a job, right, right? Whereas, for you, and particularly for you, right, it's not, you're not just churning out stuff for people to eat. It's your art, right? Like it means something, it expresses something about you. And so I totally get, like, the the, you know, the croissant puffs down a little bit, and you're like, No, no. Like, it's because it represents you in a really serious way. I'm super curious about that, actually, because so for people who haven't been to your store or haven't eaten your food. So first of all, I want to ask, how would you describe your particular take on pastry, because, like as a I am a customer of yours. Thank you. When I Well, thank you. When first time we went there, it was very obvious that you have a very specific esthetic sensibility about what you do, right? Like it. Things are very well. I don't want to, I'm I want to hear how you describe your viewpoint on food, or even how you think about it.
18:13 Will you tell me how you think about it after I answer, because I'm very curious of what you okay, yes, we will trade. We will trade my impressions as an out, okay, yes, please. The reason why I want to hear your input, because every in my philosophy in life is that I like to there's competitions everywhere. No matter what, it's a good thing for me. Competition is a good thing. However, I also set that aside because competition is always been with me. I always like to strive myself to be better every single time, I drive myself to be better every single time, not the competitor drive me to be better, if that makes sense. So my philosophy in life is that I like to be how can I learn from others, people's feedback, whether it's good, bad, whatever I like to I rather, and I guess it's also the way I was taught by my French mentor, who is very, very French. He barely gives me any positive criticism. Yeah, that's a very that's a very odd America. So like good, good job. Good job. Exactly. Right? Yeah, exactly.
19:21 And I always get negative criticism, and I don't know whether it is because I grew up, you know, very like in a Vietnamese culture. My parents are very loving, but it's not the point. The thing that my French mentor do is always give negative feedback, and it's not a bad negative feedback. It's more of like, Hey, this is what I see wrong. I need you. And he gives me the reason why it's wrong and how to be better. And so in that sense, that's why I'm very curious of what you would tell me, because then I can see from your perspective, like, Hey, how can I turn that around or do it a little bit better? So anyways, that's why I'm curious. But back to. It, oh, how do I see about how do what's my vision or like, or like? Yeah. How would you describe like? If, if I if someone came up to you and they said, Oh, that's interesting. You do pastry like. Can you describe to me what your work is like? How do you how do you talk about
20:13 that? So, how would I describe it as is that I would like people to come in and see and smell with all or and uses all their senses, and realizing that when they walk into my bakery, my it's like my second home. I want them to feel welcome. I want them to enjoy with their eyes, with the desserts, and feel joy seeing the desserts that is there, and also being happy to be there, because myself, or my team, you know, is very welcoming and in terms of the dessert wise, I want to offer a little joy in dessert that put that encompasses of me in that dessert, in the sense of, like, I put all my love and effort into keeping the French tradition. So all my recipes in that compiles of all my desserts are traditional, and I may tweak a little bit in the sense of, like, the flavor, of like, putting some Vietnamese into it, or, you know, or like, what my team would like to eat, one of my team, Sam, who's my Baker. He loves Orioles, so like I let him, it makes him happy to have an Oriole cranberry. So now we have an Oriole cranberry. Like, I want people to feel joy coming in and also bring have joy eating my pastries. That is, that is, and have been done many years ago by the French people. And I like to I love tradition, but I also love modern in the sense of the takes tradition in the recipes, but the modern is, how can I modernize it in a way that is relevant to current but still maintain the tradition of it, if that makes sense, like the canaway, for example, my absolutely favorite pastries, it's baked in a copper mode.
It is baked at a high temperature and then, you know, at another lower temperature for a very long time. But the base of it all, everything about that dessert are traditionally done, like you would find in France. And that's what I love about that, about like, the way I do my business, do my bakeries, my bakery, I'm sorry, do my pastries is the exact same recipe that my French chef have passed down to me, that was passed down to him and been done, you know, very a long time ago in France. And like our almond croissant, same thing traditionally almond croissants is, you know, invented by having old croissants that they cannot sell anymore and not being not being wasteful. The French, they have almond there, not being wasteful. They use old croissants and, you know, slice it up, dip it in syrup, and then made almond cream. And then they pipe, pipe the almond cream inside, put the back the top on top, and then put the almond cream on top, and then re bake it to get that nice and crunchy texture again. Wow, I didn't know that that's cool. Yeah. And so that traditional way of making almond croissants is the exact same way the cream is the exact same way you will be will be able to find in in France, the syrup is the same way that we they did it over there, everything that they have done over there. I brought, you know, I kept it traditional the same way. So, yeah, so that's where, you know, I would like, that's how I would describe my my place is that tradition meets modern, but still maintaining the tradition and joy, hopefully my pastries, or even the art company, happy company, brings joy to whoever comes in.
24:07 Yeah, that's so fascinating to me, because one is just kind of interesting to hear how much tradition goes into everything. Because I think what I find so interesting about your place, specifically is kind of the mix of traditional and then what feels like your personality, right? So like, it feels like a real mix. It feels like and because it's a mix, it feels unique to me, right? And the thing that always strikes me about whenever we've had kind of your stuff, or we've gotten cakes from you before, they're very beautiful, like, they're really, really wonderful to look at to the extent that, like, I think, I think we had, we had one of your cakes, and my mom, like, didn't want to cut into it. She didn't want to cut it. And I was, like, you have to cut it to eat it. You know what? I mean? Like, it's gonna, yeah. And that's always really striking to me. There's, there's a real kind of wonderfully, very tasteful, very minimalist kind of style of decoration that you do that we've always really loved. The other thing that we really love about your stuff is that it's not too sweet, which is kind of you you were mentioning that earlier, like, if you get a cake, particularly, it's, depending on where you get it, it's, you know, it's going to make your teeth hurt because it's very sugary, right? It just kind of, it's very overwhelming. But I'll be honest, I think part of what I like about it is that I can tell that you really care. And so I'll tell this, like, story really quick.
We got a cake from you, and I came to pick it up, and you were like, Oh, I'll help you bring it out to the car or whatever. And you told me, like, because I was like, Oh, we're gonna eat this. Let's say it's like, four or five hours from now, or something like that. So you told me, like, what to do with it. You were like, put it in the fridge and take it out exactly this time, and then I was gonna put it into the car. And you're like, don't put it there. Put it down here. So you, like, told me exactly in my car, where to put, where to put the cake. I was like, This is what I want. This is exactly what I want, right? Because, as someone who like, I'm I'm a business owner, I'm a musician, I have these two parts of my personality too. That's what I want, right? Like that. I want to experience your design of it, right? Like, what is it? What do you want the experience to be like? And that's like, the best thing ever. It's the best thing ever, right? Because most of the time American culture, you eat at McDonald's, or you eat wherever you're getting the same thing over and over and over again, and that's kind of familiar to people, and it's really nice. But, like, I want to have something different, right? I want to experience someone's point of view in it, which is really amazing. So I think you just do, you do such a wonderful job of that. I'm curious about you. Like you, you are an artist, right? You're an artist. That's what I wouldn't say. Well, here's the thing I don't think, all right, well, all right. Well, push back on me. Let's, let's do this. I
27:03 don't think so funny is, I don't think I'm an artist because I hired two of my greatest team members. They are artists because they went to school for it. They have an eye for it. I don't consider myself an artist because I hated art growing up. I was like, the hell, like a red circle on a white canvas. Like, that's art. Like, I don't understand a single thing. So I don't consider myself an artist. I consider myself as, you know, a baker. I'm I would consider myself a a baker. I know what I like, which is a minimalist, some design. I know what looks good, I know what looks not great. I know what gets together, but I would never consider myself an artist. I may have a tendency to be an artist, but I don't think I am. I know that there's tons better person that are in art as an artist than I am. So, yeah, so,
28:00 but I would consider baking and art making is an art, right? And you have such a clear, yes, you have such such clear opinions on what you like and what you don't, yeah, that's what turns it into art, right? Just the same way as someone's going to make a table, and they're going to make the table wonderful to sit at, and beautiful and kind of, you know, the make it a whole experience, so you could feel the wood grain and all that stuff. I mean, that's what you're doing, right? I mean, to me, that's like all the way up there. Maybe you're not painting me, me neither. But, you know, but, but I'm, I'm curious how it feels to you. You've done this for a while now, running the business side of it, right? So this is where your accounting side comes in. It's terrible, because so hard to it's hard to make the transition, I know it was for me, from being good at doing the thing to then preferably running an organization that does the thing where you don't need to be there 900% of the time. You know what I mean. So, like, what does that has that been? It sounds like it's been challenging for you. It's
29:07 definitely a challenge. I'm a, I can tell you right now, I'm a terrible business owner, just for the fact of like, Oh, hey, a baby, would you want a truffle? Oh, like a mom came in and telling me her three year old son just finished potty training, and I'm like, Oh, my God, that baby needs a treat. Totally needs a treat. Would you like a macaron? Terrible business owner, so my decision making, it's, you know, here's the thing, I really enjoy my customers. It's a challenge. And I've been telling people, if I don't need to charge people, to keep the utilities, to keep the rent, to keep anything to pay. My employees, actually, too, and I don't even think that. See, I don't consider them as an employee either, which is terrible on my. And because that's this thing, I feel like, and I've read somewhere that you shouldn't consider your business as a your employee as a family member, just because family member Biggers and all that stuff. But to be honest, I think that I don't see it. Consider them as an employee, nor am I considering them as a family. I consider them as a team. Yeah, I am as much as part of a team as they are. And I could definitely not operate this business without them involved. And it is a challenge, because every single time I need to, when I tell my Baker and and I apologize every single time to my Baker, the person so in my team, I have a baker and two artists, and then a artist slash email person. So I it's a very small team, but I am more harsh on say, on my Baker than my artist and my other one, because I am so detailed and been trained by a French person, or even just been trained in a certain way, and I like a certain way of making things that I apologize to him every single day, that I'm like, hey, I need you to do this thing better or like, and, you know, in a in a calmer way, better way, than I was taught.
But the point of it is, like it is a challenge, because sometimes I put too much emotion into my business, which is a good thing, but then I also need to step back a little bit, because the business at its core, I have a good team to do it with, and it's a fine balance, Because when the days that I want to not charge people, my team steps in be like, hey, I need you to be a business owner and realize, like, if you don't charge, there's other things you gotta pay, yeah, and where's that money gonna come from? And so it's a challenge to me many and I hit back and forth. And like, I want to show my love of baking and show my love whoever's come in to feel welcome and to enjoy my pastries, to also enjoy that joy. But then I also need to be able to, like, hey, I need to charge you this amount. Like, you know, like, it's, it's a it's very challenging for me to be both at the same time, and I'm still learning. I still have a lot of way to do learn on that. Yeah,
32:30 I don't think it ever stops, really, because as you, you know, if you grow, your challenges are just different. Yeah, deal with them. But I think you're, you are clearly so in love with what you do and the product of what you do, right? That comes across in that I'm sure it comes across with your team. I know it comes across with your clients, your customers. So I think I know it's hard to say you're a bad business owner, because your business rules. So I don't know, you know, we'll see about, we'll see about the next bill comes in and see how much. We'll see. This is where the accounting, the accounting degree, it would be helpful. But, you know, we can exactly some help. Like I said, well, so he was funny. Okay, totally off topic. But the reason why I didn't go, the reason why I realized I don't want to go and count, because in account, I guess in account, I have two accountant teacher, turns out they were married, and they talk like this, Hi, Hi, Dan. Is the way you have to do this. There's check and and I and both of them talk like that. And I'm like, I cannot see myself in a cubicle doing numbers, and numbers is not a great thing for me, in a way either. You know the stereotype where Asians are good at math and numbers? That's not me. No, not at all. So, so when I met them, now that they're married, I'm like, Absolutely not perfect match. Perfect match for each other, exactly. And I'm like,
34:07 I cannot do that, and I cannot lock myself in a cubicle doing just numbers. So that's how I'm like, I'm not going to be in camp. But yes, now I have to relearned about accounting stuff in the business sense too. So I'm like, oh, Tara Bucha, listen. Well, look, I think, as it turns out, you made the right decision. You went for it. It's been such a cool ride. I want to be respectful of your time. There's like, a million more things I wanted to ask about that we never even got to but I just wanted to say I'm so appreciative of you. I love your work. Thank you so much for being here and for giving us your time. I really, truly appreciate it. Oh, thank you. I mean, if you want to have more time to talk, I will love it's here. Here's the thing you accidentally get to pick your brain about what you come in and see it my bakery now, all right. Well, this, this was going to be my thing. I. Yeah, trying to put together a group of cool this is very important part, cool business owners, cool. Oh, all right. So like, I will take you out for coffee. We will do whatever we need to do. We will definitely or do another podcast or whatever we need to do. We'll, I'll do the work to make sure that this continues in in one way shape I love, love that. I love going to different bakeries too, and enjoy and have conversations. So, yeah, let's do it. And I would love to pick your brain. And, you know, not even just talk, yeah, well,
35:31 literally any excuse to go to a bakery. And plus, it'll be even better, because then you can, like, talk shit very quietly. To me, it'd be like, notice how sweet will be like, Yes, I'm 100% here for it. Chef Kim Huang wood, thank you so much for being here. Incredible. Thank you so much. All right, that's gonna do it for this week's episode. I hope you got a ton out of it. I know I did. She is an incredibly charming and just super well versed and intelligent person. I had such fun getting to know her. If you are curious about her work, you can go to lay bunn.com that is L E, B, A n h. So L E, B, A N h.com, or just search her name up or labon, Connecticut, you'll find it if you get a chance to go there, go there. It is so amazing and wonderful. It's a truly excellent experience. You can order some of her stuff online as well. So go do that. But I hope you enjoyed this conversation, because I really, really did, and already this podcast is making my life better, so I hope it is making your life a little bit more enjoyable. Look, my blog is over at better questions.co, that is better questions.co. Every week I'm writing about the absolute best of what I'm learning. Go check that out, all sorts of weird stuff in there, but you're definitely going to find something that you are curious about. Subscribe to get those emails in your inbox once. This is Dan Barrett, I appreciate you. I will see you next week. Thanks a lot. You.
