0:09 Hey guys, welcome back. You're listening to the second part of last week's episode. Let's jump back in. What about images? So you mentioned images as well, and I've heard this kind of people talk about this in the sense of, you know, these parts of ourselves that aren't necessarily linguistic or symbolic in the same way, but they are very tied to external stimuli, and particularly sight, which is kind of our most typically, our most powerful sort of sense. So how do images play into burnout and sort of recovering from stress.
0:46 So again, visualization techniques, right? And images, these are pre verbal, but they get, you know, interpreted into some kind of a meaning. It's just that meaning is not really expressed in in words. So that's why, you know our our, again, verbal system, our physiological systems, reacts to that. So one of the techniques that you know, kind of related to those imaging is visualization techniques, as I mentioned, you can sit, you know, sitting on a chair, you know, start breathing calmly and her creating a safe space. You know, in your basically, in your imagination. The what is it that you like, where you feel safe? It could be, you know, by the creek, you know, it could be in the meadow. It could be on top of the mountains. Whatever it is for you, you create that space, and in that particular moment, you actually bring up that image. So, that image where you feel serene and calm. So for from our body perspective, there is actually not a lot of difference between the real physical world and our imaginary world. So if you look at the anxiety, for example, or fear, what we are experiencing in that it's a kind of imagination going wild, right? So in that particular moment, we recreating all possible negative scenarios, 99% of which we'll never realize, but our body already reacts to that and that imaginary kind of fear and threat and uncertainty. So the same way, if it can react that way, it can actually react the other way. So you can basically reverse engineer the process. So instead of imagining that, you know, crazy scenario, one is, you know, covering coming from Indonesia to Texas and overflowing your house or whatever it is, right? So you can imagine the same way, you can bring up the images that are serene and calm and safe and happy for you. And so you can find a happy place and learn and practice to bring yourself to that happy place, you know, in your imagination. I
2:44 mean, it does. I used to be this was another thing that people would say, right, that the and people specifically say, like, well, your brain can't tell the difference between what's imagined and what's real. And I would always think that that was such a always be so skeptical of that claim, right? But the way that you're putting it, I think, makes a ton of sense, which is, if you really sat down, you're like, just imagine something awful and embarrassing and anxiety inducing. Can you make yourself feel anxious? Of course, you can, right? Like we do that all day. I'll just be in the shower being like, Oh my God, you remember that terrible thing, you the embarrassing thing you did. And it's like, I just feel like crap, you know what I mean. So it makes sense that it can go both ways. So we have breathing like the box, breathing like you said. We have visualization. What about action? I'm really interested about that because, so when you say burnout, what I'm imagining is someone who's constantly doing stuff, constantly trying to put out fires. It seems like action is kind of their problem. And I think a lot of times when people imagine like, Hey, I have to recover from burnout, what they imagine is like they're going in a sensory deprivation pod where they can't move for 24 hours or something. So what do you mean when you say that action is something that can help us with? Well, I
3:59 mean a muscular response, right? So what we were talking about is that, you know, the way this, this, this survival mechanism, got evolved, is that, you know, our body gets alerted, and then we make a decision. In that moment we need make a decision to fight or to run away, and then we take action. So you either go into fight or you run away, and that's how your stress response gets completed. So that that response from your muscles, right? So like you actually did something, you took an action, you send the response to your muscles, and the muscles worked, right? It doesn't mean that now you have to bring up more and more activities, but it's almost again when we're talking about that stress management techniques, it's, it's that response that your muscles at that particular moment, your muscles did some work. And that could be a brisk walk around the house. It could be again, you know, like clenching relax. So that response that will send that, you know, that. Trigger that mechanism, like, Oh, that's it, you know, I took an action. The stress cycle is completed now. So you can shut down and you can switch to another system. It could be stretching to very I'm not talking about, you know, going to a gym and working out for an hour. It could be like, if you are that person, you know, good for you. But I'm really talking about this kind of, you know, like micro, micro steps in the moment, you feel overwhelmed, you feel angry, you feel frustrated. In that moment, there's this different things that you can do to complete that response and get yourself out of the rat. I mean, it
5:38 makes so much sense, right? Like in the your Australian wildfires, example, where I hear about it in that moment, I just hear about him, like, Oh, that's terrible, or whatever, but I don't do anything. I don't I'm not running away from it. I'm not jumping on a plane to go fight the wild, right? Like, just like you said, I never closed the loop physically. And the whole point of the sort of sympathetic nervous system response, just like you said, it's do, do something right in the wild, you would have to do something right now. Just mull it over. So it makes all the sense, and it actually also makes a lot of sense that people always say, not me, but other people always say, they're like, oh, working out is how I de stress. It just totally helps me. And I'm always like this. I don't feel like that at all, but it does make because it's like, even though the exercise might not be connected to, like, Hey, I got that email from my boss, and that was really stressful, you are physically acting in the real world, which maybe just checked the box enough for your nervous system to be like, we did something right? Like, I raised the red flag and somebody took care of it. So I think that's super fascinating, and such a great framework for simplifying and demystifying and decluttering and just being like, breathe, visualize, act like, breathing images, action, I think is such a useful framework for that. So you are at a company. It's called Silicon Silicon Valley executive Academy, which people can find at SV executive dot Academy. But of course, you're also on LinkedIn, so people can go and just look up Victoria Mensch on LinkedIn and find you there. And you're, you know, you've done a lot of things. You've been in a bunch of different companies. You've got a really kind of very impressive, kind of academic background. How do you actually work with companies today? Like, if I was going to hire you, right, are you all right? You're going to come and knock me over the head and make me relax. Or, like, what do you do? Curious about how this extends, like, organizationally. Or are you one at this point, right now,
7:41 we work with organizations, so there is, actually, there's a bigger picture for this. We talk we we're talking about leadership skills, pretty much, right? So, and this, well, being in your self, leadership is a very big part of that. So this is not the entire work that we do, but it's a very big piece. And this piece is getting more and more attention now, and it's getting more and more important, which is, you know, which is really wonderful and fantastic, because I think that's how we can actually change the world. You know, we start with ourselves, and we kind of implement this practices, and we're changing the priority for ourselves as the leaders, and that trickles down into the entire organization. So there's a fundamental shift right now in the workforce that's happening. A lot of that shift is really driven by technology, by artificial intelligence, that fundamentally changes the way we work, the way we manage and the future of work as well. So so that's that's important. So we've run this leadership programs, and the well being module is very important in that so I really love to talk to leaders about self leadership. And you know, we sometimes we mix leadership and management. Leaders. You can be a leader on each and every level. So you don't need to have a work or job to be a leader or be an entrepreneur. It's really about the self leadership, right? So your leadership starts with self leadership, with taking responsibility for your mindset, for your development, or the goals that you put on yourself, for your state of mind. So like these techniques that we were talking about, those stress management techniques, there is a lot of self leadership there. It actually requires you to take charge and take responsibility for your own well being and practice, right? So, and these are just kind of, we just touched the surface on this again, as our first aid, right? And then we're actually talking about much more substantial changes, you know, that is supported by all the changes that are happening on the larger level, on the societal level as well.
9:41 I absolutely do think that's like. So the chase Hughes was just someone who's kind of a mentor of mine, that I learned a lot about, would talk about, how do you influence someone the most sort of fundamental aspect of that is authority. Who has authority? How do you get it? And you were to say, the first and most important element of. Priority is self leadership. So how much, how disciplined are you when you are away from the moment when you're actually trying to lead people? Right? And he would, he would always say that, like, if you, you know you you walk into the boardroom and you want to be the kind of, I'm not saying people should do this, but you're trying to be the kind of dominant alpha male person, but like in your house, your your bed isn't made, there's dishes in the sink. You haven't paid your bills in three months. He's like you will express that somehow to other people. They will pick up on it, and they will even subconsciously just kind of realize that you're not who you say you are. So I think that's such a powerful kind of thing, of saying, Hey, if you want your team to be more effective, that means you need to be more effective in managing your own stress, because otherwise you're just gonna give it to you know what? I mean? Like, it's like you take the monkey now you have it. So when, when you talk to leaders about helping teams or organizations with these issues, obviously, we just teach everybody the the skill set. But you mentioned, AI, a lot of it is structural, right? In the sense that things are happening constantly in the world. And like you said, we're getting notifications and and if I'm asking you to work, you know, 100 hours a week, I'm putting a lot on you. So are there ways that business people can structure their organizations in a way that encourage people to live kind of less burnout? Or is it, I don't know. How do you think about those kind of more structural issues,
11:35 right? So, so they're obviously, you know, educational part, right? So we're talking about the burnout is now is much better understood and recognized condition. Let's put it this way, right, so and the companies start to recognize that. So there are some programs within the companies that are getting established. So when employees can actually get help. You know, from a from a wellness professionals, they could go and talk to someone, or there's some seminars on how to do, how to recognize, how to deal. So that's a very good first step. There are some structural things that need to happen on a cultural level as well. And again, a lot of it is released first from the leadership. So once the leaders on top of organization recognize this as a value, right? So we're really, you know, talking about, you know, fundamental change in values from, you know, productivity at all costs, to well being and kind of happiness. A lot of companies now, especially in Silicon Valley, there's so many experimentations going on, a lot of companies actually put it as a value, happiness in place. So once you put it as a value, you start building the the processes around that, the one of the discussions that is still ongoing. You know, what is it three years after COVID? Is this hybrid work environment? Do we work from office and we work from home? Or it's hybrid So, and if you think of that, especially in kind of information worker territory, a lot of kind of drive to bring in place, back to the office is, is, you know, rooted in that, you know, control and the fear of, you know, losing that control, not necessarily that it's driven by, oh, now we're going to be more innovative.
It's, it's not that a lot of is really driven by that control that comes from, you know, all times, and all the systems within the organizations is built around that, right? So, like, everything is built around the control. I see when people are in the office, I see them, it means that they're working. If I don't see them, they're not working, yeah. And I, you know, from my personal experience, and I really share that experience as well, because I've been on both sides. I was an employee, really looking for that autonomy and flexibility in my life, and as a as an employer, where, you know, it's the struggle is real. I'm not saying that easy. The struggle is real to see, like, if my employees are not here, I'm going to assume that they're just, I don't know, drinking tea somewhere and not working so, but that's, you know, a lot of it is my problem. It does not mean that they're not working. Most people actually want to be effective. They don't want to waste their time drinking tea during, you know, work time or whatever, having lunches. People want to be productive. People want to be effective. They want to feel fulfilled and appreciated, so the processes need to match that. But those processes, again, why I like talking about kind of self leadership, those processes, you know, come with the changes in yourself, you know, once you realize that you're controlling out of that fear, right? So then you actually start making, you know, better decisions. How do I relinquish unnecessary control, right? And pull together the processes that work on both sides for employees and for me as an employer or an entrepreneur that I have, you know. Not a necessary level of control of what's happening, but I give enough autonomy to my employees so they can actually do this work to the best of their knowledge, to best of their talent. So, and the best of, you know, efficiency for me. Does that make sense? Dan, yeah,
15:16 absolutely. I'm listening to you talk, and I am, like, fully on board. And, you know, my business, very small business, compared to many of the people that you're working with, right? But we've always been, we always say we're a quality of life business. None of my employees have, like, set work times. I never know where they are. They're never there when I need them, but they're somewhere. But it's like, but like earlier today, like I was, I was doing something else, and I got a bunch of email notifications that a bunch of our client websites had were adapted downtime. And I clicked on one, and the database was broken and wasn't loading. And I went on Slack, and I was like, hey, like, the websites are all down. Is anyone around? And like, nobody responded. I was like, Oh, we were on a room. I could open the door and be like, hey, you know what I mean? And then a big fine. It's not a big deal. And I've just accepted that for a long time. As most of my employees have kids, I have young kids. I want to be able to leave when I need to, and we're all responsible adults. We take care of our tasks, and that's always been how we work. But what would you say to, and you must get this as as an objection to the person who says, like, Well, that's all well and good. Like, that's great, but essentially, what you're talking about is people are going to work less, and that's going to hurt our bottom. And what do you say to people are like, Yeah, you know, mental health, great, but we're here to make money, and this isn't going to help me make money.
16:43 Well, I want to tell you that there's some jobs that don't make sense to perform out of home, right? So if you are a cashier, for example, at the store, it doesn't make sense for you to be at home, right? So there's some jobs for sure, that require that. Well, most of these jobs are going to be automated. So that's just the way it is. You know, we can, we can talk about the time frame. Maybe it's 10 years, maybe, but it is going to happen. A lot of these jobs are going those that require you to be there and perform a certain task every second of that time period, those jobs will be automated. So when we're talking about the changes that you know we mentioned, this is necessity for us to accommodate the changes in the nature of work. So now this actually places much more responsibility on a leader, on the emotional intelligence of the leader, and that's that trust that we were talking about. How do I actually develop that trust for my people, but also on the organizational level of developing the processes that allow you a certain level of control that's necessary, and that means really creating the goals, really creating those, you know, milestones and KPIs for people SMART goals, you know, not dumb goals, but smart goals that are achievable, measurable and so on, so forth. And that requires a higher level of work on the leader. In a sense, it's easier just to sit in the office and look, you know, whether people are sitting in their offices are not right. So it's immediate, like you don't need to plan, you don't need to think, you just as a leader, right? So it's easier, but it's not, it's not right. So it's simpler, it's not easier, actually, it's harder, but it's simpler. So not, you know, not to buy into that simplicity, because it's a false simplicity, right? And dig deeper and understand that at the end of the day, it will actually bring you greater rewards. So one of the examples that like to talk about is the gratitude, right?
So on the kind of emotional intelligence and self leadership level, I like to talk about the practice of gratitude. So it's basically practice when you teach yourself to notice things that you like instead of things you don't like. So it's a different mindset. What does it mean on the culture level of the organization? It means really it trickles down into the culture of appreciation. The people who feel appreciated are much more efficient and productive and happy. So at the end of the end, they're much more loyal and they're really willing to go above and beyond to deliver on their promises. So so that's how it works together. So when I'm talking about gratitude, it's not a rule stuff some spiritual leaders or something. These are practical things and tools that you can use to change on your personal development path. But this actually, and you know, gets translated into the very practical ways on how you can help your people to be more productive, how you can earn more money at the end. Easier way, not so that greed and perseverance are hard work and 24/7 but there's an easier way to do that.
19:58 I do think. Think that happy people do superior work. They are willing to work more. We've all had the experience of working for a boss that we hated, and my guess is that you didn't do your best work for that person, right? Apologies to every terrible job I've ever had, which is most of them. And you know, I totally agree with you. I always tell people like, I give up a lot of control over my employees through remote work and not requiring requiring hours, but I've only had one person in my 13 years ever quit, right? Like it's always been, when people get here, they stay here and they want to be here, and that's a huge reduction in costs. For me, it's a huge benefit, right? So we're coming up on time, and I do want to be, you know, very respectful of your time. You did mention, when we were talking about this, you are planning a retreat in Bali in April of 2025, so if you're listening to this, April is coming up, can you tell me a little bit about this. So first of all, what's the retreat all about? And then second, why Bali? Maybe that's a silly question, like, why supposed to go to Bali? But yeah, tell me a little bit about that. Yes.
21:12 So it's going to be a week long retreat for high achievers. If you're a founder, you know, executive and super high achiever, I just buy yourself as a high achiever. So then the title of the retreat is elevate beyond success, everything what we were talking about in the last hour with you, right? So a lot of us are getting driven by success, and then we get to that success, and we look around and it's not what we expected it would be. So it's a week to really, you know, take stock of what it is that you know where I am, and how do I go forward? How do I elevate myself to the next level? How do I recharge, reignite the fashion, re energize, and so on before so go through different practices. Some of those we talked about today, there are some workshops, and obviously, will immerse in the wonderful and beautiful, you know, nature of Bali, Bali, what you said, why Bali? But Bali, you know, has a very, you know, deep cultural component to that. So the culture of Bali, they're there, you know, their people is really, you know, living in harmony between the society and work and nature and spirit as well. So it actually all just you kind of immersed in that environment as well. And that helps to accelerate. So yes, you can practice all these things, you know, all day long, but it really accelerates that kind of going through that, you know, success to harmony. And at the end of the retreat, you get your blueprint of your practice, you know, so you go home and you continue the practice that way. That
22:49 sounds super cool. I mean, why? You know, look, you get to write it off on your taxes to business expense. Go to this beautiful place and you learn all these tools that we've been talking about. I mean, I absolutely will be taking the stuff that we talked about today. So that sounds like a huge opportunity. So this retreat in Bali, it's in april 2025, if they want to learn more about that is the easiest way for them to just to DM you on LinkedIn. Exactly. That would be the best way. Yes, and we can talk about this, and you can see, you know, what's in that retreat, then you can also connect with me, and you know, we can continue in conversation that way. Absolutely, okay. So that's Victoria mensch. I'll have the link to her LinkedIn on the show notes and all that stuff. But obviously you can go on LinkedIn just type in Victoria and mensch, which is spelled M, E, N, S, C, H, correct. That's correct. All right. I always, I always say it like I'm really certain about it, and then I then I feel extreme doubt right at the last second, and I'm like, Oh my God, I hope I'm getting it right, Victoria, I will. I this was such a lovely conversation. You're so much fun to talk to. You helped me de stress a little bit from my day just having this conversation. So I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for taking some of your time and spending it with my audience. We really appreciate it. Thank you very much. It was my pleasure to be here. You know, when I when I spoke
24:09 with Victoria, it was very outpropos, because, as I mentioned the beginning of this episode, I'm not feeling well. And not only am I not feeling well, but I'm recording this around the time that I'm currently involved in my critical path course, which is this course I've been teaching at the end of every year I teach it on something that I've been interested in. That probably the best thing that you know, the best thing that I learned all year, I kind of do this, pay what you want course, and I'm very lucky. I have hundreds of people sign up, and it's always really fun. And is so much fun to do. It's probably my favorite part of the year, favorite thing that I do during the year. And man, has it been hard, you know, I've had to come in, you know, the class starts at 730 at night. I don't usually look at screens at that time. And I've had to come in and, you know, I'm downing Advil and cough syrup. Because I kind of, I gotta, kind of get through it, and I'm pushing myself, you know, not to mention trying to push myself to be at least a little helpful at home with the kids and and it's been tough. It's been tough, and my conversation with Victoria, it really kind of reminded me that, like, Hey, your ability to show up. Yes, it's a gift. It's awesome. You can push through, but it's also not inexhaustible. You can't do that forever, right? You cannot push yourself forever. You can't be stressed forever and just deal with it. It's something you've got to think about as a resource which you can expend and sort of run down and ultimately run out of and Victoria's advice was super useful to me in this moment.
And it, you know, I think the stuff that I teach this kind of thing, having these conversations, you know, talking to you every week, these are the things that are really important to me that I'm going to do no matter what. But it did remind me that I have to be okay with taking my foot off the gas sometimes and not beating myself up about the fact that I you know, I'm not doing helping out around the house as much. I'm not helping with the kids as much. I'm not working out, you know, it's you have to be okay with this, because that's just how it is sometimes, and it's a good reminder, reminder to be grateful and thankful for the times when you are healthy and things are going okay, because it's very easy, as Victoria reminded us, to focus on the negative. It's always going to be there, but we got to remember to focus on the positive too. So really timely conversation for me, I hope you enjoyed it. As always. You can find my blog over at better questions.co, it's one email a week. Well, whatever I'm reading and learning and thinking, I really do hope that you join us there. It's a wonderful community, almost 7000 strong now, so you can jump in there at better questions.co, and I will be seeing you next week. Thank you so much for listening. I'll talk to you soon. Cheers. You.
