Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, content marketing, direct response marketing, and business development, with some of the leading experts in the industry.
Kevin: Welcome to another episode of the Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, and today I've got a great interview with Kim Walsh-Phillips, who I've been following for a few years now and really trying to learn as much as I can because she's really, really good at direct-response social media, and taking a lot of what direct-response marketing has been over the last 40 or 50 years and applying it to social media, and really combining the two.
Actually, my first introduction to Kim's work was her collaboration with one of the top direct-response marketers of all time who is Dan Kennedy, and it was an interesting collaboration because you definitely had a lot of the old school with Dan Kennedy, but a lot of his knowledge is timeless, but he's a lot more pre-social media. [01:19.6]
And then, you had Kim who was definitely on social media and collaborating well together, and it was a really good book, and that’s the social media marketing, direct-response social media marketing book with them two (No B.S. Guide to Direct Response Social Media Marketing), and it’s the “No B.S. Guide to”, so it's like a lot of Dan Kennedy's books that are the “No B.S. Guide to” and then a different kind of subtitle, which in this one is direct-response social media marketing.
That’s where I first stumbled upon Kim's work and I've been following her. She comes up with a lot of great concepts and one that I've mentioned quite a few times, and this is really what we're talking about today, is the whole discussion of being 85 percent PBS and 15 percent QVC, which essentially means to be of a lot more value than sales, but at the same time, you need to do it and need to have call to actions. [02:09.7]
That’s what we're going to talk about today, certain strategies around having tasteful calls to action in direct response and having people take action. It’s amazing what you can do with the written word and getting people to act, and then taking that written word and applying it through the distribution channels such as Facebook, Instagram, email, YouTube and all that, and then, obviously, video and or even mediums like this podcast, which is audio.
In my book that I've finally completed and sent in the final manuscript for, we really talk about the few different types of content that you can create, obviously, written, video, audio and in-person—those are really the four main ones you're going to do, especially as chiropractors, and when you do that, you want to provide a ton of value, but you still need to have some calls to action. [03:03.5]
If you’ve listened to this podcast long enough, I try to give as much value as possible and interview great people and have some solo rounds kind of riffing on some topics that I'm dealing with in my practice or implementing. But, at the same time, I'll have some calls to action in there as well, and that's what you need to be doing in your marketing, on your website, in your emails and on your videos that you shoot. Whatever medium you are implementing, you need to have that, and that's what Kim and I talk about today, and she gives some really good information and she also gives you an opportunity to learn more, so I highly recommend you take that.
She is fun in her marketing, too, and that's another thing that we touch on, that she's creative and fun, and has a nice kind of spin on things and not just being very cut and dry with it. Sometimes would direct response, it's very persuasive and she does a good job of that, but does it in a very kind of fun, mild-mannered, laughable type of way, and she does a great job of it. [04:06.3]
I get her emails and some of the subject lines are just great, and makes you want to open them. So, try to take that as you listen to this and start to think, How can I be a little bit more creative and authentic? And we touch on that.
Without further ado, here's my interview with Kim Walsh-Phillips.
…
All right, welcome to the show, Kim. I really appreciate your time today. I know my audience is going to get a lot of great value out of this. Before we dive into today's topic, tell us a little bit about yourself, both professionally, personally, or whatever you got for us.
Kim: I love talking to amazing entrepreneurs who are helping others, so thank you so much for having me on your show. This is an absolute delight. But, yeah, I enjoy helping people lean into their superpowers, so they can grow their businesses profitably, which means I work with existing business owners who have worked for a really long time basing their business on a hope strategy, hoping to get that next referral, hoping to get that next lead, and instead we turn it into predictable lead generations that they can grow their business profitably. [05:05.7]
That came from a background of being a struggling entrepreneur myself, working way too long and not making money—and I got to tell you, there are a lot more fun ways to make more money than to work really hard—and when I finally found a way to grow my business predictably, I was able to grow my agency from bankruptcy to sell it at a really good exit, and that's when we formed our coaching company. It's been an awesome journey and every day I get to talk to entrepreneurs about this topic. I love it.
Kevin: That's great. Our audience is made up of a lot of chiropractors, but the one thing that's really the reality of our profession is, for the most part, at some point, if you're not already as a chiropractor, you're going to be an entrepreneur. You're going to be a business owner. You have to do marketing. Even if you're not an owner, you're going to have to do some marketing.
We are one of those professions in the healthcare industry where people aren't knocking down our doors just because we've got title. If you're a neurosurgeon, a heart surgeon or some of these specialties, you really just have to get through residency, get into a hospital group and, from there, you're going to have a lot of business and there's a lot of margin as well for those. In our profession it's not like that. [06:14.9]
And so, I try to compel chiropractors as much as possible that they have to start really looking at this as entrepreneurship in a lot of ways, and that’s one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on today.
Kim: Yeah, that's awesome. And it's amazing you mentioned the neurosurgeon, the heart specialist. We've done a lot of marketing for those folks, too. You would think that it just is instant, but their target market are actually other doctors to get referrals. The exciting thing about your industry is that chiropractors can reach the consumer, their client, their patient, directly, which is an incredible power, because now you can go after your exact prospect and you know exactly who needs you.
You know that you specialize in the weekend warrior athlete, or you specialize in young people for their sports or the elderly. Whatever your niche might be, you can reach them directly and bring them in in a matter of 24 hours or same day, where other industries can't do that. Other specialties in healthcare can't. So I see there being a huge advantage to use marketing for your niche. [06:14.9]
Kevin: I agree, and I always say, because, again, historically, we call it the Mercedes ’80s for chiropractic in a lot of other healthcare where it was pretty easy. There was insurance reimbursed really well. There were $10 copays. There were no restrictions and chiropractors did really well. Now it's not like that. So, a lot of times people will falsely say that it used to be better because, in that regard, it was, but in other areas such as marketing and getting your message out there, it's way better now. I mean, think about what it took in the ’90s to actually get your message out there.
Kim: Exactly, yeah. You had to spend thousands of dollars on a print and in the newspaper or direct mail, and you wouldn't know for weeks or months later if it worked. Now on Facebook, you can know within an hour if your message is producing and you can switch it up quickly. [08:09.3]
Kevin: Definitely. Perfect. And one of the things that I wanted to really dive into today, and it was the first time I’ve ever heard it and it just resonated with me, and I've mentioned it quite a few times over the last couple of years, that concept of 85 percent PBS and 15 percent QVC with your content or your calls action and things like that. Can you expand on that a little bit? Then, we'll go from there.
Kim: If you think about in terms of dating, back in the day when I was single and in Palm Beach, Florida, I would go out with these really pretty guys. They were so pretty.
Kevin: In Palm Beach?
Kim: In Palm Beach.
Kevin: I’m in Boca Raton, Florida.
Kim: There you go, then you get this. You know who I'm talking about here. They were really pretty. Their cars were really pretty. And they would spend all night talking about themselves, and if they ever asked me a question, it would be, Why did you go out with me? which is really another question about them. [09:01.1]
There would be the other type I'd go out with, and on the first date, they're just asking me, How many kids do you want to have? Do you want to meet my mom? because they just wanted to get married and they didn't care who it was to.
Unfortunately, on social media, that's how most businesses are. They're either making it all about themselves or they're getting way too serious too soon.
Instead, if you think about marketing from a dating perspective, relationship, you're first going to attract your prospect in something that gives them value that gets their interest, because social media is a cocktail party. Okay? People are hanging out and they're having a good time, and if you want them to get into a conversation with you, it's got to be incredibly valuable, engaging or entertaining, or else they're not going to pay attention. That's step one.
Step two is, you're dating. You're building trust. They have to trust you.
Step three is when you ask to get married. That's when you ask for the sale.
Then, step four is, you’ve retained a relationship and that's when you're going to upsell. You continue to get them to come in multiple times and for appointments, to utilize you for different services. Then, that's when you’ve built trust; you've gotten them success; they've used you multiple times. That's when they get introduced to other people that they bring in, into their friends and family network. [10:11.5]
So, when marketing becomes less about the transaction and more about the relationship, that's when it changes everything. If you think about it as far as content, we say it's 85 percent PBS and 15 percent QVC, meaning you're giving value 85 percent of the time.
You want to think about it in terms of a daily posting schedule. One post a week could be self-promotional and the other six posts a week should be of pure value. Now, it doesn't mean you can't link it to something that would be asking for something, but, for example, let's say you had a lead magnet on the seven foods you could eat that would help inflammation. Let's just say that's going to be something, muscle inflammation, and that could be, as we call it, your juicy carrot. You're trying to attract as many bunnies to use as possible who loved to multiply, so your juicy carrot to attract them in. You have that offer. You do a post that would give a tip from the lead magnet, one tip, and then you link it to the rest of the report to get the other six tips. [11:21.9]
So, you give them something of value. Then you ask for their contact information. Your thank you page to that lead magnet would then ask them to schedule an appointment. Now your appointment scheduling will lean, go back to the offer you had initially, so if your lead magnet is about some type of inflammation or injury, then your appointment should be personalized in a way that speaks just about that issue, because now they're not just coming in for a general appointment, but they're coming in for consultation that would be the injury recovery consultation, so it connects back to the lead magnet you just gave them. Does that make sense?
Kevin: Yeah, so you obviously want to make it congruent, too, right? [12:00.2]
Kim: Yeah.
Kevin: It also sounds like what you're saying is, because I see this with chiropractors a lot of times, which is that either they're 100 percent QVC or they're 100 percent PBS, and they never have any calls to action. It sounds like there are two ways of divvying that up.
One is in the actual posting that you do. It should be majority information and usefulness, PBS, but then, even in your posts, maybe 85 percent of that particular content is information or something like that, and then, 15 percent is a call to action or a link and stuff. So, you've got to look at it from two ways. Is that correct?
Kim: Yeah, and it would still be a hunched on PBS because I'm still giving you more information about the thing you're interested in. The place where most businesses screw this up is, and I see chiropractors do this all the time, they, first of all, try to make the information way too broad, so it would be information that could work for anybody—not good, because then they don't feel it resonates—and then, the offer to book is also way too broad because it's just about coming in for an appointment. It's not about solving the problem that they have right now that you've just talked to them about. [13:07.4]
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Kim: So, when you lean in first with value addressing a problem they have right now, giving them a solution and then giving them more of a solution later, then you're having value throughout the entire thing. You're just making sure it's not too much about you. [14:00.4]
The thing that would be the QVC might be one post a week that you're going to talk about one of your specific offerings. If you're saying that you have something special, maybe you offer a massage—let's just say that's one of the things people can come in for, a certain kind of massage—that might be one day a week where you're just giving some kind of offer to come in for a massage. If you just keep it to one post a week that's flat-out promotion, you'll be in great shape.
Kevin: Yeah, I get a lot of chiropractors I talk to and I'll ask them what they do as far as email, and it's usually promotions and holidays, and those are all the emails they give. When I tell them, I’d say, Let's go for once a week. Let's start with that. And they say, Once a week's going to be I think too much. I’m like, Not if you're … yeah, if you did once a week when it’s a promotion or holidays, that’s probably not going to be as useful.
But I try to get them to think about the content and delivering that, and then the distribution of it is not too frequent and you just kind of flip that over, That's essentially what you're, what you're saying. You're not going to frustrate them and annoy them when you're providing them with a lot of value, as long as it's targeted, right, like you said. [15:09.7]
Kim: Yeah, and if it's entertaining, because if I think about it, people want to be entertained. The president of Harvard makes $800,000 a year and Jimmy Fallon $12 million. We value entertainment more than anything. So, if you can keep your posts, your emails and communication that they know when they open it up, they're going to be amused, entertained, informed and they're inspired, then they're going to be much more likely to keep on reading, and not just that, but forwarding it to their friends and family that you get a new client out of it, too.
Kevin: Do you have any tips on entertaining? I know that's an interesting topic for healthcare providers. I think sometimes they get a little too reserved and they're afraid of being entertaining. Just any small tips you have as far as that?
Kim: Follow a template. That's going to help, number one, because then you take out the scary thing away from it. One of the things you can do is to focus.
If you're giving four emails a month, one of the emails could be on a funky holiday. You look up weird holidays—it could be brownie week or crazy tie week—and you just could tell them about that holiday that's interesting and entertaining. [16:13.8]
Another week I would send them to a funny video and you could even go with your next show. Let's say you like specializing in the weekend warrior—you know, the sports guy—you could send them the funny sports clip of the week. That would be another one.
The third one could be introducing and featuring one of your patients, so it could be a patient spotlight of the month.
And the fourth one could be about a tip or strategy that they could use to help in their self-care.
So, if you just follow that formula, super easy, takes away the guesswork and it makes your emails very interesting, and how you sell through those, you just add a P.S. on. Keep it super simple. In your P.S., you address some specialty that you had to bring in a new patient and you link a P.S. to an intake form in order to book that appointment.
Kevin: I enjoy getting your emails. Even just from the subject lines, there are definitely creative and entertaining a lot of times. [17:05.5]
Kim: Thanks. And we email daily and people will say, What? And I’m not telling you that you want to start there. You're not going to go from once a month to daily. But we email daily and guess what's happened to my open rate? It increased. We get people, if I ever missed, which I rarely do—it's usually just the one going into their spam folder—they say, Where's today's email? And so, you create [a following]. When you’re writing them in an entertaining fashion, that's when people want to open it. If you're just promoting all the time, that won't work.
Kevin: Yeah. And you know what? I think what you're saying is just perfect for the healthcare provider because it's almost like they put their patient on a pedestal and higher than, say, a traditional customer. And I know there are some differences. For instance, off the topic, but I tell chiropractors to try not to be too polarizing. Polarizing is great if you're in politics or entertainment, certain things like that. In other industries, it's fine. When you're dealing with patients on your email list, you may not want to get too polarizing with it. So, there are some caveats and differences with it. [18:14.5]
But I think across the board, everybody likes entertainment and likes the tasteful entertainment, and at the same time educating them. You'll be surprised with how much leeway you get with the content that you do put in front of them.
Kim: Yeah, I’ll include this, another quick tip—including gifts in your social media posts and your emails works really well. I'll search for gifts of the non-polarizing characters in life. Jimmy Fallon is in a lot of mine, and just the comedians that have never gone and gotten drunk and said terrible things.
Kevin: That was Louis C.K.
Kim: Yeah, no, he’s not in my posts. So, I pull those in. But it's okay to be a little polarizing. For instance, I talk about God a lot. It's just part of my life and my faith is a big part of it, and some people won't be into that, and that's cool because they're not my tribe. [19:04.1]
So, you'll also find things that are authentically and uniquely you to mention every now and then, and I have super fans because of it; I have other people who don't follow me because of it, and that's okay because that's just who I am. If you pick out a couple of authentic things to mention every now and then, it could create allegiance with you. That’s big, too.
Kevin: Absolutely. You want to have that voice and you want to be authentic, and get that out there. So, perfect, great information. I appreciate that.
One of the things that I wanted to [mention], I first heard some of your work with the collaboration you did with Dan Kennedy, which was on social media marketing, and I found it a really good book because you had that kind of dichotomy of old-school copyrighting, 1980s and ’90s Dan Kennedy, although he's obviously still doing great work throughout the years, and then really combined with the work you do with online. It was really a good book and I highly recommend that to our audience, and I learned a lot of good information from there. [20:01.8]
It was something that I felt when I started telling chiropractors about that book and the concepts of what you talk about, it has helped out because a lot of chiropractors are afraid of marketing or they think that they are above marketing because they're a doctor. Is there anything you can say to that person that's fearful of getting into the marketing and they feel like it's just not going to resonate with their patient base or audience?
Kim: Anyone you want to serve, you need to get their attention first. If we can't get them to pay attention, we can't get them to take the next step. And so, if you know you're put on this earth to help people—and I believe everyone listening right now feels that way—and that you can do things that can literally eliminate pain that can improve lives, that can change families, that can create opportunities, then you have a moral obligation to reach everyone you can that can be served by you. The only way you can do that is to communicate effectively with them.
We would all love to think that just the good work that we do would be good enough and that would get our patients to come in the door, but they are bombarded with so many messages. You're not competing against other chiropractors; you're competing against them doing nothing. So, your job is to reach them effectively, and that is so that they can take that next step and move forward with you. [21:19.4]
Kevin: I wanted to make sure because I'm not sure if I am attributing this quote to you right. “Different is better than better”—have you said that?
Kim: Yeah. Different is better than better. You want to stand out in a sea of sameness. They're not comparing you to anybody else. They are comparing you versus doing nothing. When you stand out, you are much more likely to be noticed and then they would pay attention.
It's fun, a fun fact about the book with Dan. His no B.S. direct response marketing book was the first book I had read about direct response, and throughout it, he was talking terribly about all things digital marketing and social media, and also women with hyphenated last names.
When my books with him came out, not only was it his bestselling book of all time, but we now have the second edition coming out and he now has to get checks every month—I like those checks, but I like them even more because I know, every month, he's reminded that he has a book on social media, with a woman with a hyphenated last name. [22:20.6]
Kevin: It's great. You know what? I know I mentioned earlier how the dichotomy of the two, and for those in the audience that aren't familiar with Dan Kennedy, I've read a bunch of his books prior to the book that you co-wrote with him, and that's exactly what you're just saying.
When you know of Dan Kennedy and read a lot of his work, and then you read the book you wrote with him, you're like, Oh, wow, this is different. But it was an extremely enjoyable read because you didn't have to necessarily connect as many dots as you did with some of his past books with kind of modern social media and technology, and just the way it is right now.
Kim: Yeah, we mentioned definitely Facebook more than in any of his other books and God is mentioned way more than in any of his other books. I got all the things in there. It’s good. [23:02.7]
Kevin: Yeah. But it's entertaining writing, too, which is good. I think I wanted to touch on that for the chiropractors out there, where I think it might take some time for them, but they can find their voice. If they get practice with it and get authentic, and start to try to think about value, they will find their voice and they will be entertaining, and they will be different.
Trying to compete in health is hard. If you think you're going to be better at the actual material than PubMed, Mayo clinic and all that, it's going to be hard. There's some really good health information out there. But if you do it with some entertainment and your voice, and just tell good stories like you do in your book there, I think it'll be really helpful for them.
Kim: And that's a way to get started. Just see the things that you enjoy reading, you enjoy looking at, you enjoy watching, and start looking at their patterns. It’s a great way to create a blueprint for yourself of the type of things that you'd be willing to write about to follow that path. [24:04.9]
Then, of course, follow coaches just like yourself that give them that guide book that they can follow, give them that map to follow. But start looking into things you like, and that's a great path to take, too.
Kevin: Perfect. I’ve just got one more question before we wrap up and it's putting you on the spot a little bit, but not too much. We discussed email and obviously you're really big on social media, but I know that you know all marketing and platforms and stuff. What's another platform that's not social media and it's not email, because we've already talked about it, that you're excited about or you think is still working very well?
Kim: It's very old school, but it would be a webinar. That is our ultimate secrets of success. My entire business is based around the webinar model because it's a way to give incredible value, but they have time with me to build that trust and we drive in all of our business. We have profitable lead generation that's automated through webinars. I was able to spend last week in the Bahamas on vacation and come back for more sales than we had before because I have a webinar doing it for me. It's really my favorite way to grow a business. [25:07.9]
Kevin: Is it EverWebinar for some of them?
Kim: We don't use EverWebinar. We use EasyWebinar, my favorite platform. We've tested them all, so if you're looking for a platform to do it, but you only turn something into an evergreen or a repeatable webinar when you've closed at least 20 percent three times. That's our rule of thumb. You close through 20 percent three times live, then you can turn it into an automated webinar, and it works very well for driving people into patient appointment. So, it doesn't have to just be for selling a product. It can get them to book an appointment right from that webinar, too.
Kevin: I'm excited you mentioned webinars because it's something that I've done in the past for chiropractors. I've talked about it very little as far as chiropractors using it for patient-generation and stuff like that, but I think it could be huge. A lot of chiropractors want to try to get out in the community and do public speaking, and that's great, obviously, and they could do that, but this is a way that you can actually scale it a little bit more and it's basically like public speaking in a lot of ways. [26:09.9]
Kim: Yeah, on demand, 24/7, so people can access it when it's convenient for them. That's the most important way to do it.
Kevin: Perfect. That's great information. I really, really appreciate it. It's something that I think I might have to dive further into in my own practice. That's the one thing I enjoy. I have my own practice. I've got a couple, in Boca Raton and Miami, and I love interviewing people and learning, and trying to teach chiropractors. At the same time, I'm applying it to my practice as kind of a test lab, so maybe that's something that I will do.
I want to thank you a lot for your time. How can our audience find you? I know you do a lot of great work for many industries, including chiropractors and other healthcare providers. If they're interested in learning some of this information, how could they find you?
Kim: I would love to share a free resource for you. It's how to get 10,000 Facebook fans to your page right now that will not only grow social proof, but also drive in direct patients and boost up your rankings on Google. You can catch that right now for free at 3daysto10k.com. [27:08.3]
Kevin: Perfect, and I'll put that in the show notes.
Kim: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me today.
Kevin: Definitely. Thank you and we'll talk soon, for sure.
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