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Men have been told for generations that feeling or showing their sadness is a sign of weakness. This myth has misled entire generations of men to suppress their sadness. And nothing has led to men being more isolated, lonely, and disconnected—from themselves and others—than this toxic myth.


Because suppressing emotions like sadness deprives you of the very love and connection you yearn for. In fact, sadness is the gateway to love. And fearing emotions like sadness keeps us locked away from true, unconditional love.

But there’s another way…

In this episode, we’re directly attacking and shattering the pervasive myth that suppressing our emotions is the key to happiness down the road. Instead, I’ll show you how feeling your emotions and embracing your vulnerability requires more strength and courage. And how this shift in mindset opens up the road to a more fulfilling and love-filled life.

Searching for love and happiness and connection in your life and don’t know where to turn?

Listen now!

Show Highlights Include:

  • The pervasive myth that’s led generations of men to detach from their emotions and stifle their happiness, love, and connection (1:07)
  • The counterintuitive reason feeling your sadness is often the quickest route to experiencing love (3:59)
  • How to build your psychological resilience according to emotional psychology experts (and why most men shy away from building this resilience) (8:37)
  • The insidious “False Stoicism” trap many men fall into which erodes their best relationships and drowns them in sadness (8:59)
  • Why viewing your sadness as an ally instead of an adversary is the key to a life filled with love and joy (10:29)
  • How toxic masculinity blocks you from the authentic connections and experiences and keeps you lonely and miserable (13:22)
  • Why unburdening your exiled parts effortlessly makes you more attractive to women (21:31)

Does your neediness, fear, or insecurity sabotage your success with women? Do you feel you may be unlovable? For more than 15 years, I’ve helped thousands of people find confidence, fulfillment, and loving relationships. And I can help you, too. I’m therapist and life coach David Tian, Ph.D. I invite you to check out my free Masterclasses on dating and relationships at https://www.davidtianphd.com/masterclass/ now.

For more about David Tian, go here: https://www.davidtianphd.com/about/

Emotional Mastery is David Tian’s step-by-step system to transform, regulate, and control your emotions… so that you can master yourself, your interactions with others, and your relationships… and live a life worth living. Learn more here: https://www.davidtianphd.com/emotionalmastery


Read Full Transcript

Welcome to the Masculine Psychology Podcast, where we answer key questions in relationships, attraction, success, and fulfillment. Now, here's your host, world-renowned therapist and life coach, David Tian.

David: Welcome to the Masculine Psychology podcast. I'm David Tian, your host. In this episode, I’ll be pointing the way to a life of true happiness, love, joy and fulfillment, and showing that these are not just ideals, but that they're attainable experiences, which, unfortunately, many of us were conditioned to believe was outside of our reach, because society and our communities, and perhaps our families, script a narrative for us from a young age that often dictates our self-worth and shapes our pursuit of fulfillment. It's a script that says vulnerability is weakness, and, especially, that a man must be a rock, unfeeling and unflinching. [00:59.3]

But what if this very script is what's holding us back from the life of fulfillment that we yearn for? In this episode, we're going to directly attack and, hopefully, shatter a pervasive myth that suppressing our emotions, especially, our vulnerability, is the key to some happiness down the road, and to show instead that it requires more strength and courage to allow yourself to feel your emotions and to embrace your vulnerability.
We're going to try to detoxify toxic masculinity, which equates emotional suppression with strength, and we'll explore how this toxic masculinity has influenced societal expectations of men in really harmful ways and it has led to many generations of men being detached from their emotions. [01:52.0]

Of course, as I pointed out in other episodes, those things that we are aiming for as the final results of our accomplishments, our sense of significance, our emotions—even the feeling of significance is an emotion, but, obviously, also love, connection, joy, happiness, fulfillment—and if we're detached from our emotions, even when we get to the end of all of that hard work, we will be unable to fully feel our feelings.
So, the cost of buying into this false narrative is really steep. It's a cost measured in the deterioration of our mental health, the erosion of our most intimate relationships and the stifling of authentic parts of ourselves. Long-term repression of emotions like sadness can lead to a whole host of psychological problems, increased anxiety, depression, and a pervasive sense of disconnection from ourselves and from the people in our lives. [02:52.2]

Especially around the social stigma that's attached to men and sadness, it's like there's an unspoken rule that men must always keep it together or that a real man doesn't cry or express hurt, and these harmful stigmas are perpetuated in media, in our locker rooms, in boardrooms, and even our homes and bedrooms. They're woven into the very fabric of our daily interactions, creating an environment and conditions, where men often feel that they cannot and should not acknowledge sadness.
This kind of conditioning breeds a reluctance in men to express sadness, which only feeds into a cycle of emotional dissonance and emotional isolation, and a kind of alienation from our own selves, from parts of ourselves. Then when men do try to reach out, they may find themselves facing ridicule or dismissal, thereby reinforcing the toxic idea that their feelings are not valid or important. This not only harms the individual man, but also sets a precedent that affects how boys are raised, and how other men perceive and manage their emotions. [03:59.6]

But here's the truth—being courageous enough and strong enough to feel your own sadness is obviously not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of being human, and sadness is the gateway to love. It takes incredible and profound strength to confront our vulnerabilities, to face our fears, to sit with our emotions, and to seek to understand them. By acknowledging and processing our sadness, we open ourselves up to deeper self-awareness, empathy, and the kind of authentic connections that enrich our lives, and ultimately is the prerequisite for unconditional love.
Embracing our sadness increases our capacity for joy and love. When we allow ourselves the full spectrum of human emotions, we become more present and engaged in our relationships. When we're not afraid of any emotions that might be felt by us or displayed by others, we can finally have the courage to be fully present without fear with others and with ourselves. We then become better partners, friends, parents, lovers. [05:05.2]

So, I challenge you to consider this—what if the true measure of courage, emotionally, is not found in the suppression or repression of our emotions, but in the embracing of them? What if we could rewrite that false narrative that's been handed down to us, not with denial and false bravado, but with openness and authenticity?
Let's pivot now to a new understanding of sadness. Far from being a weakness, sadness can be one of our greatest strengths. When we allow ourselves to experience and express sadness, we unlock a deeper level of self-awareness. It's a raw honesty that connects us to the core of who we are.

Consider the moments when you felt sadness. It's not just an emotion. It's a signal, a signpost pointing towards something that matters deeply to you. Perhaps it's the loss of a loved one with the end of a significant chapter in your life or a dream that maybe didn't come to pass. By feeling that sadness, you honor the importance of these life events to you. You acknowledge that they've shaped you, and in this acknowledgement, there's a profound strength, the strength of authenticity, of being real with yourself, and by extension, with others. [06:16.3]

Earlier, I mentioned sadness is like a gateway to love. Here's another metaphor: love and sadness are two sides of the same coin. When you love something or someone unconditionally, you know that if you were to lose this person, you would feel incredibly sad, and if you didn't feel that sadness, it shows that you actually didn't love that person, because the only reason you wouldn't be sad at having lost them is because you didn't really care about them, and the more sadness you feel at having lost that person, the more that it shows that you love that person.
In fact, anger, sadness and love are all linked in the same way, all sides of the same three-sided coin, and this may be helpful for those who, like myself, were trapped in toxic masculinity for decades of our lives and conditioned or in a society in which it was conditioned into us in this way, because out of all the other emotions, anger seems to be the closest or most acceptable to toxic masculinity. [07:16.0]

Actually, to be more accurate, it's more like a four-sided coin, because anger is often a protective mechanism, a mask. The angrier you are about something, the greater your fear of that horrific consequence coming to pass, and often that anger is to galvanize us into action to prevent the thing that we're afraid of happening, and so far, toxic masculinity is right alongside here, fully accepting of this anger as a response to fear.
But if the thing that we're afraid of comes to pass or if we've got the guts to face the fear, then we'll notice that right underneath the anger is sadness and on the other side of sadness is love, which will never get to that love without embracing the sadness that will come from losing the ones you love, and once you fully appreciate and understand that the anger and fear are rooted in love and sadness, and then the fear of your own fear and the fear of your own anger goes away and you're able to notice that these are all different emotional responses to love. [08:21.6]

But this is just one of many examples of an experience of feeling unconditional love that is unavailable to those of us who have been conditioned and are still conditioned by this repression of our emotions through toxic masculinity. Researchers in emotional psychology consistently find that emotional diversity, experiencing the whole rainbow, the whole range of our emotions, which, of course, includes sadness and its similar emotions, being able to feel all of these and to be able to tell the difference between them, contributes to our own psychological resilience. [08:59.0]

Let me share a story of a client and we'll call him Alex. Now, Alex was a man who prided himself on his lack of feeling, this false stoicism. He wore, like an armor, the armor of repression, but when his intimate relationship ended, that armor cracked. He felt the full weight of sadness and, at first, it terrified him, but as we worked together, Alex learned to sit with his sadness. He didn't need to push it away. But it also didn't overwhelm him or flood him anymore, and instead, through the therapeutic process, he learned to acknowledge it, learn from it, appreciate it, and in doing so, found a path to empathy, and a deeper connection with those parts of him that were holding the sadness the most, and then, of course, with a deeper connection with those around him.
Alex discovered that his relationships flourished when he dropped the facade and got real about his feelings, and this is part of the power of embracing sadness. It's not like wallowing or dwelling in sorrow. It's also not like giving into, being overwhelmed or flooded by sadness. It's about recognizing the value of this emotion as a natural and necessary part of the human experience, especially if what you're aiming for is a life of fulfillment and love and joy and connection. [10:16.3]

It informs our understanding of ourselves and deepens our capacity to connect emotionally authentically with others. It's about finding strength in what many people perceive as a possible weakness. So, throughout this episode, I'm inviting you to reconsider any negative connotations you might have about sadness, and view it not as an adversary to a great life, but as an ally, one that can guide you to a more resilient, empathic, and connected way of living.
Now, let's look at this from the angle of Internal Family Systems therapy, IFS therapy, and if you've followed my podcast for any length of time, you've probably heard me mention IFS therapy. I'm a huge fan of this approach to therapeutic work. I am a certified IFS therapy practitioner myself. In the IFS approach, it posits that we all have a core self, a higher self, characterized by qualities like compassion, courage, confidence. [11:13.5]

This higher self is the leader of our internal system, ideally, guiding the various parts of our psyche. You can imagine your mind is a family, where each member has a distinct role. In IFS therapy, some parts carry burdens, like sadness, and these parts often become exiled, hidden away, because the world has told us that their presence is unacceptable, or, at least, that's the message that we got way back when and parts of us exile to these more vulnerable parts of us that are holding the most sadness.
While our most vulnerable parts are exiled, in their place arise these protector parts who stand up and shield us from feeling that sadness that is concentrated in our exiled parts, and these protector parts in us might push us to work harder, to numb out with substances or to laugh things off. These are the parts of us that keep us in the gym longer than is healthy or use physical discipline or exertion as we have numbing out or distracting ourselves from the underlying sadness. [12:16.8]

They're also the parts that focus on hustling harder and the parts of ourselves that are emotionally distant, all to maintain the illusion that were unfazed and unharmed—and, for men, many of our protector parts, they formed in response to messages that we interpreted or received about what it means to be a man, to be masculine. They're the internal embodiment of societal expectations, shaped by the myth that real men don't feel or real men don't show sadness. They're our psyches response to a toxic culture that says men always have to appear strong, and in control and unfeeling. [12:56.6]

But here's the truth. These protector parts, while well-intentioned, are actually now getting in the way of a fulfilling life. When they first started doing their jobs, they were adapting to these conditions at the time to protect our sadness or vulnerability, and it started off as being an adaptation. But now in adult life, it is clearly a maladaptive approach, as Terry Real likes to say, adaptive in childhood, maladaptive in adulthood.
The protector parts that came up under the weight of toxic masculinity keep us from the authentic connections and experiences that come with acknowledging and expressing our sadness. They work tirelessly and are often exhausted by adulthood to keep these exiled parts of ourselves hidden. But in doing so, they also keep us from the healing and growth that we could achieve if we allow our higher self to lead, and they also keep us from forming authentic emotional connections with others. [13:57.0]

No matter their physical strength, for many men, emotions are too much for them to handle. It's why they can't give women the deeper levels of emotional intimacy and connection that they crave. It's why they fail to be the man that modern women desire most: a man with inner strength, a man who has mastered his emotions.
Find out how to master your emotions through David Tian's “Emotional Mastery” program. The Emotional Mastery program is a step-by-step system that integrates the best of empirically-verified psychotherapy methods and reveals how to master your internal state and develop the inner strength that makes you naturally attractive, happy, and fulfilled.
Learn more about this transformational program by going to DavidTianPhD.com/EmotionalMastery.
That's D-A-V-I-D-T-I-A-N-P-H-D [dot] com [slash] emotional mastery.

Consider a time when you felt you couldn't express sadness. Maybe it was after a personal loss or a professional setback, or even moments of quiet reflection on the state of the world, and that impulse just shut down the emotion to toughen up or to distract yourself. That was very likely a protective part or parts stepping in. [15:12.7]

But what if, instead, you allowed your higher self to approach that sadness with curiosity and compassion? What if you listened to what that sadness was trying to tell you? Instead of armoring up, how about instead turning toward our sadness? It's in these moments of turning toward our sadness rather than away from it that we begin to heal.
When we let our higher self lead, we can start to understand the valuable messages our sadness is sending us. We can learn, grow and connect with others in much more meaningful and deeper ways. So, maybe you, too, have protective parts that arose in response to the messaging of toxic masculinity in your culture or society, or in your family or your community. Are there any parts of yourself that feel a need to uphold a facade of invincibility to project an image of unwavering strength? [16:10.5]

Let's scrutinize the toll that this takes on our wellbeing. The protective parts of ourselves that come from toxic masculinity, they enforce emotional rigidity in us. They dictate a narrow path of acceptable emotions, primarily those associated with toughness, while they banish softer and more vulnerable feelings into the shadows of our internal world.
It's an attempt to shield us from hurt or perceived weakness, but it inadvertently stifles the richness of our emotional experiences. We become prisoners in a fortress of our own making, confined by walls that block the free flow of our emotions and connection, and as these protectors fortify their defenses, we end up paying a price in the currency of connection, connection to our own deeper selves, but also to the people around us. [17:02.3]

Relationships demand vulnerability in order to flourish and deepen. But this sort of toxic masculinity insists on emotional armor and shielding, leaving us, of course, disconnected and isolated. This dynamic of exile and protection not only distances us from others, but also from our own core selves.
The higher self, with its inherent qualities of understanding, courage, empathy, gets overshadowed by the relentless drive of these protective parts, to keep up appearances and to keep these masks going. The unfortunate result is a life half lived, emotions have felt, and relationships have formed. This is a facade that demands constant upkeep, a performance that requires relentless energy, and over time, this leads to exhaustion, resentment, and a pervasive sense of unfulfillment. [17:59.2]

These protective parts of us that are born out of this sort of toxic masculinity have positive intentions. They believe they're serving our best interests, but in truth, now in adulthood, they're cutting us off from the full spectrum of life's experiences and of genuine connection.
So, what's the antidote to this? It begins with recognizing the roles of these protectors, understanding how they started doing these jobs, and then gently deepening a dialogue with them and building a trusting relationship with them, and from the state of our higher selves, reassuring them that we are capable of handling our vulnerability, that it's safe for them to lower their guard and allow for a fuller experience of our emotional landscape, and that we, as our higher selves, are capable of protecting those exiled vulnerable parts. [18:55.8]

Navigating this path to healing often begins with a simple yet profound act, getting to know our protective parts. Within the framework of IFS therapy, these parts have stood guard, often for decades, shielding us from what they perceive as threats to our wellbeing. To understand their positive intent is to honor our own history, the challenges and the coping mechanisms that we've instinctively developed.
Take a moment to consider the protectors that have emerged from toxic masculinity. These parts exert heroic effort to keep our vulnerable emotions like sadness locked away. They fear that allowing these feelings to surface could unravel the very fabric of who we believe we must be in order to be men. Yet their intentions, while misaligned with our true needs, are inherently positive. They aim to safeguard us, although through misguided means now. [19:53.0]

The healing journey in IFS therapy invites these protective parts to relax, to step back and allow the higher self to lead with compassion and understanding, and confidence and courage. It's a process that requires patience, and often the guidance of a skilled and experienced therapist. As these protectors ease their rigid grip, we gain access to the exiled parts of ourselves, the reservoirs of sadness and pain that we've been conditioned to hide.

In the presence of the higher self, these exile parts can finally release their burdens, and this unburdening process is not about eradicating sadness, but about transforming our relationship with it. It's an opportunity for these parts to express their pain, to be seen, heard, understood, and ultimately to heal. The higher self, with its clarity and full presence, witnesses and validates these emotions of our exiled parts, allowing them to evolve from sources of suffering into wellsprings of growth.
Imagine the relief of a part of us that has carried sadness for so long, finally being permitted to let go of that weight in a space of acceptance. It's a powerful moment of reconnection, not just with a spectrum of emotions, but with the authenticity of our very being. [21:13.2]

The unburdening process is like clearing a stream that was long blocked by debris. As the obstacles are removed, the water flows freely once more. So, too, do our emotions begin to move through us in a way that's healthy and life-affirming, enlivening and fulfilling.
Our exiled parts not only carry the greatest concentration of sadness and pain and hurt, but they also, and you'll discover this once they're unburdened, also carry the greatest concentration of our spontaneity, our adventurousness, our joy, our childlike sense of wonder and curiosity about life, and our natural sense of playfulness. All of these characteristics for those guys who are focused mostly on dating success, these are all characteristics that make you incredibly attractive on a date. [22:03.0]

So, embracing our vulnerability and integrating our sadness into our internal systems again and into our lives, paves the way for personal transformation and richer, more fulfilling relationships. It's here in this integration that we find the courage to be fully human, to live a life not dulled by fear, but enlivened by every shade of human feeling.

Embracing sadness in the broader spectrum of our emotions, paves the way for profound personal transformation. It takes immense courage to be vulnerable, to let down the walls that we've built around our feelings, but in this vulnerability, we discover our true and natural strength.
When we embrace sadness, we allow our higher self to step forward and lead, and this is where genuine masculinity comes into play, not as a rigid, unfeeling facade, but as a balanced, emotionally-aware, courageous presence. It's a masculinity that acknowledges pain, and is not afraid of it. This form of masculinity is authentic, rooted in the understanding that feeling deeply is not a weakness, but a hallmark of a complete human experience. [23:14.5]

Consider the relationships in your life. How often have we held back from expressing our true feelings for fear of appearing weak? But when we open ourselves up to vulnerability to sharing our sadness and our struggles, we're then able to create deeper connections. We signal to others that it's safe to be real with us to share their own vulnerabilities, and this openness fosters trust, intimacy, and a stronger bond.
This assumes, of course, that you're able to be with your own sadness and that you're not going to someone else with your sadness, to get them to meet your own emotional needs for you. The sharing of your own vulnerability should only come after going through the therapeutic process for yourself for quite a while, so that you've learned how to access your higher self on a more consistent basis to be there for your own vulnerable parts. I’ve covered that point about how to interact with others while holding open your vulnerability, I've covered that in other episodes. [24:15.6]

I also wanted to point out here that the courage to feel sadness and the strength to be strong enough to be sad and to be mature enough to show vulnerability without being needy, this also allows us to lead more effectively in our personal and professional lives.
When we acknowledge our emotions, we become more approachable and relatable. We can be better leaders. We can engage with others from a place of empathy and understanding, rather than from behind a mask of stoic, unfeeling. This emotional honesty invites a similar response from others, creating an environment of mutual respect and genuine interaction. [24:55.5]

Integrating sadness into our emotional repertoire doesn't mean that we’re always sad. Rather, it means we're equipped to handle sadness constructively whenever it arises. It means we recognize sadness as a natural, normal part of life, and indeed of a desirable part of life, because as I pointed out, it's a necessary aspect of love. As we get more experience and skill with our emotions, we learn to ride the waves of our emotions, maintaining our calm even in turbulent times.
This journey towards embracing vulnerability and integrating sadness is transformative. It reshapes our understanding of ourselves, our relationships and our place in the world. It allows us to live more fully to experience life in all its complexity and beauty and richness.
For me, in my own personal life, I had two sets of parts that suffered from an inherited toxic masculinity, and one part was an intellectual grouping of parts that had the philosopher and the scientist and the executive, and so forth, and then I had another set of parts that were more martial that were more about physical exertion and physical fighting and discipline, and physical toughness. [26:04.6]

Especially as I aged, it was a lot easier to have the more martial parts relax back, especially if I'm exhausted after a tough workout that day and then I go and meet my therapist. But it was these intellectual parts that it was really hard to get them to relax back or to even notice when they were doing their thing of protecting, because it was so second nature for me growing up.
I’ve shared this in other episodes about how, over a decade ago, when I was really starting to get into my own personal therapy work, that I had to spend a good year and a half just focusing on being there for the sadness in me whenever it came up, whenever I felt sadness. What would happen is my intellect would just jump in, and the phrase that I kept thinking of at the time was “came down like a fucking anvil,” and I looked up this phrase and it comes from the Die Hard movie, the original first Die Hard movie, which was my favorite movie of all time for over a decade of my life. [27:00.0]

I looked up the phrase or the line, and it's spoken by the computer hacker who was hacking the bank vault, and when he hacked the security system as far as he could, he got a call from the bad guy leader, Hans, and he replied, “You better heat up that miracle, because we just broke through on number six and the electromagentic came down like a fucking anvil,” and, yes, I looked that up on Google.
That's what it felt like whenever I was getting close to a vulnerable emotion like sadness during one of my therapy sessions with my first good, really good therapist over a decade ago. I had these parts of me that would just start thinking or talking, and they would distract in the matter of microseconds away from feeling that sadness. So, I just spent a year and a half focusing on just staying in that space just before the intellect kicked in, the armor of the intellect or the shield of intellect came down. [27:49.8]

At first, it started off where I could just hold it for a few seconds, then a few minutes, and then eventually be able to be with the sadness for half an hour or all day eventually or multiple days, and sometimes it felt really amazing, and that's the other side of it. When you get to be comfortable and not afraid of these vulnerable emotions, like sadness, you discover their immense beauty, because once you're able to be with them, then they're not actually founded on fear anymore, and that's when your sadness becomes beautiful.

Then your experience of what used to be heartbreaking gets transformed into feeling your heart breaking open to the richness of your love and compassion for yourself. It's an experience and state that's really hard to put into words. It really has to be felt for yourself.
When you're no longer living out of the fear of sadness or the fear of your vulnerability, then you'll discover real courage, the courage that comes from no longer being afraid of vulnerability or afraid of sadness, and for a lot of dudes, being afraid of rejection, afraid of rejection for being real. Then you will experience and enter into the power of real authenticity. [28:59.6]

As we conclude this episode, let's take a moment to recap the essential points we've explored.
We began by challenging the myth that strength lies in suppressing vulnerability or sadness. We discovered that embracing sadness is not a weakness, but a profound strength that can lead to self-awareness, empathy and deeper connections, and that it takes real courage to feel sadness.

We delved into IFS therapy, understanding the roles of different parts within us, especially those carrying sadness, and the protective parts that often work to suppress these emotions in response to toxic social norms, and we recognize how toxic masculinity leads to emotional rigidity and disconnection.
We then outlined the healing path within IFS therapy, focusing on unburdening the sadness and allowing the higher self to lead, which creates space for authentic masculinity and emotional balance. We talked about the courage that it takes to be vulnerable, and how integrating sadness can transform us personally and improve our relationships, appreciating the courage that it takes to feel sadness. Then the question would be, are you strong enough to feel sadness? [30:10.1]

Imagine going through life with a heavy armor, always guarding against any show of emotional weakness. This way of living can lead to profound loneliness, a sense of disconnection, and a simmering feeling of never being truly known or understood by others. Estranged relationships limit your personal growth and, over time, leads to a hollow existence devoid of genuine happiness and lasting fulfillment.
But imagine, instead, a future where you possess the strength to feel sadness, the courage to embrace your vulnerability. In this future, you experience a rich tapestry of emotions, each adding depth and color to your life. You enjoy more meaningful relationships where you and your loved ones share openly and support each other unconditionally. Your courage to face vulnerability turns into a source of strength, fostering resilience, and a deeper understanding of yourself and of those around you. [31:05.7]

This future isn't just a possibility. It's actually within reach of all of us. It begins with a decision to no longer let fear guide your emotional journey. It flourishes through the practice of acknowledging and embracing all parts of yourself, including the most vulnerable ones and the ones that are holding the sadness. It's a future where your authentic self leads and your life becomes a testament to the true strength found in embracing your own vulnerability.

Thank you so much for joining me in this episode of the Masculine Psychology podcast. Remember, the journey to emotional wellbeing is continuous and it's okay to seek help along the way. Whether it's with me or with someone else, please take it seriously.
If this episode helped you in any way, please hit a like on whatever platform you're listening to this on or give a good rating, and if it's helped you, please share it with anyone else that you think could benefit from it.
Thank you again so much for listening to this episode. I look forward to welcoming you to the next episode. Until then, David Tian, signing out. [32:05.1]

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