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Highlights from this episode include:

  • How to ethically use persuasion to get what you want (even if it feels icky) (8:07)
  • Why women chronically undersell and undervalue themselves (and how to get what you deserve) (11:30)
  • The ugly truth about why lottery winners blow all their winnings in a few years (14:40)
  • The “Burning Building Mindset” that makes closing deals a breeze (17:17)
  • The only 3 skills women need to shatter glass ceilings and live your best life (23:29)
  • Why you need to be equally okay with a “No” as you are with a “Yes” if you want to be a superstar saleswoman (31:19)
  • The counterintuitive reason tough love works better than the best sales tactics (35:40)
  • The “Mirror Method” for getting away with charging way more than your competition (36:53)
  • How thinking like a doctor will make you a better saleswoman (41:15)
Read Full Transcript

There's two types of people who hear consensual sales in the first go, Oh, Eww, Shawna, that is not what you want to say. There are better words to use and the second type here, consensual sales and say, you know what? You're right. I don't want to talk my way into the sale. I don't want to memorize a script. You just want to work with clients who are excited to work with you. Now that's consensual sales.

Well, those of you who have listened to consensual sales and podcast, there was a special episode called 15 ways that you can create value or like 15 ways why your customer will buy from you. And none of them are discounting. And that list of 15 actually came from Poloma who was here today. So she is somebody that I admire and I learned from in the world of sales. And she's going to give us all the juicy details about how to sell, how to get rich, how to have mega confidence.

(00:56): And I'm really excited to have her. Thank you so much, Shauna, with that intro, I'm excited to listen to. And I was like, okay, the pressure is on. Tell us all the secrets to getting rich and having superstar confidence. Now I can do that. I could totally do that. What catches up to speed? Like we must have the short version of who you are and how you got into the world of teaching people, how to sell. Sure. So, Oh, I, I'm a crazy red head from Toronto Canada. That's the end. If you're a redhead, you all know how to bus through some bullshit in life. You know, the sun has been frying us for years. People have been making fun of us for so long persuasive. We need some evolutionary advantage, right? No. So it's funny because I actually was not a confident kid at all.

(01:47): I was super, super shy if you can believe it. And I was very, very lucky to have a marketing mama. She had a really interesting career progression that is totally linked and connected to my story. So my mom got a good stable job as a lawyer and she didn't feel fully expressed in her work. So she left law for the limelight as she tells her story. And she became like a singer actress, performer, comedian. And it was so cool to see my mom live her dreams, right? And so she ended up getting a lot of publicity for her performance stuff. And she had friends of hers who asked her, how did you get so much publicity? So she had her final career pivot, which was teaching people, marketing essentially how to attract rather than chase clients, using showbiz techniques of being interesting, different and colorful and putting yourself out there in a certain way.

(02:43): And so I grew up with this backdrop of a pretty bad ass mom building her own business, which was incredible. I would also super fortunate to be a weird eavesdropper at her door, listening to her sales calls. And I found it so fascinating. I literally would be waiting outside when she would go break for lunch, like clapping for her and be like, mom, you're such a bad ass, any objection. And I was like, I love this. And so I was also always really interested in entrepreneurship. And when I was 19, she knew that I was like fascinated by her work. She took me to a conference in Chicago, Dan Kennedy's marketing conference with a ton of just like incredibly powerful entrepreneurs. And I was like, Oh, this is where a crazy redhead belongs with all these intense people who are building and creating and who are visionaries.

(03:37): And so that's how I started my entrepreneurial career. My mom was an amazing mentor to me. And then at the age of 19, I started my business. I was teaching ESL students communication skills. Yeah. But a lot of their questions were not about the technicalities of language. I realized the pattern of the most competent students or the least confident. And I thought that was strange. I was like the better they became at language. The more self-deprecating the more they'd hold themselves back from opportunities and think I'm not good enough. And so I realized it wasn't just about the tactics. It was about their state. It was about their confidence. And I started teaching them negotiation and persuasion skills. So I was like, if you really want things, let's stop conjugating berms, cause it's boring for you. And it's boring for me. So instead, why don't I just teach you how to get more of what you want using persuasion?

(04:26): Like my mom taught me marketing stuff. And so I built a Facebook group around negotiation and my work horse to working with entrepreneurs who are my soulmates in this life. I love them. And from negotiation that transformed into teaching sales and from sales specifically high ticket sales, closing deals. And I absolutely love helping women specifically close big juicy deals. Awesome. That's so cool. Okay. So your mom is basically like the source of all this inspiration. I didn't know that that's a really beautiful story. Thank you. And you know what, that's why I was so loved when you and I did that interview when I interviewed you and you talked about how you incorporate your kids into your business. It was so moving because if it weren't for my mom being that model of what's possible and just building her dream from scratch without all the tools that we had, I wouldn't be able to do this.

(05:19): So I'm very grateful to her. Was there a moment where you're like, I actually have like a knacky like I actually have like a skillset. Yeah. Well, the funny thing is I realized from an early age that if you can persuade, you can have anything. And if you couldn't persuade, you couldn't have what you wanted. So a lot of amazing things happened for me based on a lot of pain that I'd been through in my life. So my dad is a quite controlling person and I had some just difficult stuff with him in my early years. And I never felt like I was in control. I never felt like I was in power. And that was a really helpless kind of crappy feeling. And so I really started studying negotiation, persuasion language so that I could feel some kind of mastery or power over my environment and my circumstances where I previously felt pretty powerless.

(06:12): And it was really cool to be able to transfer the power of persuasion to ESL students who leave themselves felt powerless in a new country to negotiate their salary with their boss, to ask for time off, to write a very persuasive graduate school application. I was basically the person that came to anytime they needed to use communication skills to get a yes and so in empowering them, I found it very empowering for myself as well. And yeah, I just realized I need to, I need to understand how humans work. I wanted to go into psychology. That's the only reason I took calculus. You wouldn't be caught dead and I didn't have to watch dr. Phil and just find that dude. So freaking fascinating. I'm like he understands people and as a result, he can, he can influence people. And I really understood the value of that from a young age and paired with the fact that my mom said, I'm one of four kids, four girls.

(07:09): And she said, you talked a lot very early. She said you had a lot of vocabulary for your age. And so maybe there was a natural component of it, but there was definitely an on-purpose intentional learning of the mechanisms, the levers, the psychology of why people say yes to other people when they make a proposal or offer. That's so funny that you say that about dr. Phil, because when he was always on right before Oprah, right. So me and my sister would like rush home. You know, we tried to get off the bus as fast as we could, so we could watch like the last 20 minutes on after school. That's so funny. Okay. So you said you're dabbling a little bit with the word persuasion. So a lot of people hear that word and these sort of recoil. Do you like, how do you navigate that and how do you think about persuasion in the world of, in the context of consensual sales?

(08:06): Yeah, that's a great question. So persuasion is a neutral tool. Persuasion is a, is a tool for transformation. It's a tool for influence. It's a tool for mobilizing people to action. It's a tool that every single leader must have. And so I think that like this, it's like a magnifying glass. If you're an asshole, you become more of an ASCO with persuasion skills. If you're a genuinely good person who has a positive, powerful mission that they would like to actualize in the world, then persuasion as a positive skill. Shawna. If you're going to use persuasion skills to convince me to start smoking crack, or I don't know, punching dogs, like whatever patient is a negative tool, if you're going to use it to convince me to get a gym membership and I don't know, clean plastic off the beach or whatever, then you have used persuasion in a positive way.

(09:02): So the tool in and of itself is a neutral tool, but it's a necessary tool because if you are not persuading, other people, other people are persuading you in this life. And it's always, it's always a back and forth. And so it was happening, but it's a, it's a tool of power. And so the most effective leaders have persuasion skills and it's non negotiable. If you have a big radical vision, whatever good you want to do in the world, I want women to close deals. I feel really excited why women closed deals and I see them step into their full power. That's my mission. That's what I use persuasion skills for. But yeah, absolutely integrity really, really, really matters. It absolutely matters. And I love consensual sales. What a sexy title you ever think? Like, I wish I thought of that for Shanna. Even thought of it.

(09:47): My ideal client came up with it. I was like, cause I'm, I'm always sort of in the, I'm always asking like, Hey, what do you think I did here? Like, how would you describe what's happening? Cause I don't always know, you know? And she said, you know, it's kind of a way teachers consensual sales. And I was like, I'm running with that. And if you guys want to catch the episode, that ideal client was in an episode called shoot. It was just the other one. It was like two weeks ago. Her name was Jenna. It's a, Oh, what happens when you learn how to sell? It's something like that. It's just two back. So go ahead and catch that one. If you guys want to listen to that episode, like you said, I want to ask you this. I want to take a little bit deeper about your heart to serve women and close deals.

(10:29): Like what makes that sort of group of people struggle with sale? Like what do you see? Because that's a great question. So I've had male and female clients. I love them both. I have a special, soft spot in my heart for I'm one of four sisters. I saw my mom go through a lot, but really like build her power through her business. And I just know how empowering it is when I see women close billions and billions and billions of dollars are spent to make women feel like shit about themselves. Okay. Women struggle with negotiating on their own behalf. Women are better at representational negotiation as Margaret Neil talks about. She is an awesome negotiation. Professor representational negotiation of meaning I'm negotiating on somebody else's behalf. So Shawna, you have five kids, right? To advocate for them would be a lot easier for the average woman to do then to advocate for themselves.

(11:25): And so it's an important issue because of the fact that women are freaking remarkable and incredible experts and they are chronically underselling themselves. They're chronically underpricing themselves. They're chronically self-sabotaging, I'm using perfectionism as a way to hold themselves back. Yeah. Constantly underestimating themselves constantly apologizing for no freaking reason, constantly taking themselves out of the running, constantly struggling to close deals. And I don't like gender generalizations, but, but we have research to back this up that women don't negotiate on their own behalf as well as men. And so it's not an accident. It's not an accident. You know, that quote about the system thing. It's like no system. I to find this exact quote, do you know? I don't, I don't know. Give me some more fill, in some words, it's basically, it's not an accident. Wait, I gotta find his exact quote guys.

(12:24): As you're looking at that, it makes me think of this

(12:27): Person in my membership who negotiated a she's like a video editor. Right. And she negotiated a deal in the start date is supposed to be in September, September is around the corner and they actually didn't negotiate a date, like an actual starting date. And so she's asking me like, how do I say this? And I'm like, all you gotta do is send her an email and say, Hey, we need to pick a date because I'm trying to like book other appointments or I want to honor other commitments. Like, are we thinking like September 1st, are we thinking like September 25th? Right? Like that's a big difference in this project. Totally. Sometimes it just like blows my mind. I'm like, okay, this isn't complicated. Like, how is this happening? Like you're paying money to just tell you this when it's rarely about the tactic, right? Like it's rarely about the words thing, because there's a major block that has nothing to do with the right words to say, that's preventing you from just emailing this person and be like, all right, like you committed to September.

(13:26): We're going to have to buckle down and pick a date, which one works best for you. Totally. So the quote is there's no such thing as a broken system, every system is perfectly designed to get the results. It does meaning that it's not a coincidence that when I'm on a sales call with a woman expert, I could tell her her own life better than she could tell it to me. I can tell her back. So you do this as a result of this. And on the sales call, you do this and you self sabotage in this way. And this connects to your early childhood experiences where your parents thought about this and this. Like, it's not an accident that women apologize all the time that women underestimate themselves all the time. You're a hundred percent, right? It's not about the tactics. Ultimately have a lot of women come to me after they worked with all of the sales bros. They named them off one by one by one. I'm like, yep, that's my perfect client. Because she has already drunk the Kool aid and said, yeah, I need all of these sales bro tactics. And ultimately she says, I tried everything to stop working. And I'm like, of course it's not working because we didn't address confidence and conviction. And what underlies competence and condition is the feeling of being deserving and worthy of the things that you're asking for. Right.

(14:35): Go deeper with that. How do we do that? So I'll first kind of explain it. You remember those days about those lottery winners who statistically, within a couple of years, they have found some way to give away, lose the entirety of what they they've made or they've won. Yeah. Why does that happen again? And again and again, why is that a pattern? Why is that a system? Well, people don't want things that they don't feel deserving of. Right? If people didn't feel like they earned it and they don't want it, it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel good. And so a lot of women don't feel deserving and worthy of more. The sales bro say hustle plus shorter, just say this script, but I liken it to, I call it as a joke, the dead eyed, sea lion at the zoo, that's like doing that performance.

(15:28): They're like clapping along to a show, Naya Twain songs, pretty sad. But the sea line has like dead eyes and it's not, they're not happy. They're not selling the performance obviously. Right? And a lot of women in sales who have been trained by the sales bros, they have the scripts. They're saying the words, but they're not animated by the true belief that they are deserving and worthy of the things that they're asking for. And so as a result, I watch sales call after sales call. That's what I do. It's my pleasure. I like it way more than Netflix. I love it. It reminds me of Shauna. I'm like literally watching women on sales calls. Like you go right up to the goal and then you kick it like one inch away, like away from the clothes. Because asking for money as vulnerable, standing behind your prices, as vulnerable, believing in your authority as vulnerable, all of these things.

(16:21): And so I've made it my mission, you know, for the first five years of my entrepreneurial career, I was working with ESL students. Our mission was to help them be the most confident, the most confident, persuasive humans they can be. And then I spent the second half teaching people how to price in a way that feels confident and how to close deals in a confident way without self-sabotaging sweet. Thank you for sharing all that. This is awesome. Good. Okay. So how do we not care? What other people think? So it's like, one thing would be like, okay, like you gotta like have that confidence. You got to pick a price that you feel like you can stand behind and you want to kick the goal by a lot of times what happens is like, we don't want the other person to feel like we're taking advantage of.

(17:03): That's something that I hear over and over again, they want, they don't want to feel like they're tricking somebody and they don't want the other person to feel like they're being taken advantage of. Right. Right. So how do we address that? A lot of ways. So first of all, it's really important for people to understand when you are selling. So you have it like this, your prospect is in a burning building. They're literally like they need help right now. And you are a ladder sales woman. Okay. You have a ladder that could get them out of the burning building. Are you being kind to them by accepting their BS excuses for why they can't buy a ladder right now? They say, you know, I can't buy a ladder right now. Cause it's really hot in here. Right? That would be, I'm really want to work with you.

(17:47): I just need to make one more sale first. Well, there's a kind of chicken egg situation. You need to learn sales to be able to, it's not going to fall from the sky. Right? And so the whole thing of taking advantage of someone, it's a simple question. Do you believe that the thing that you're offering will help alleviate that person's suffering? If the answer is no, you need to get better at delivering what you deliver and continue, continue to improve. There's a big part of that. That's a perception problem. Like the truth of the matter is the women that I work with are incredible experts. There is no lack of skill there. It's just a lack of belief. And so first of all, you asked her, do you really believe in your offer? And if you do, then you are absolutely disadvantaging. The other person by not advocating for them.

(18:33): The thing is, you're not advocating for yourself and closing your own deals. You are advocating for the transformation of the other, right? They're going to love that. That's a great perspective shift. It's like, if you're selling me a gym membership, right, I'm going to throw the closer we get to the close, the closer you get to the okay. Poloma transfer me money. The more of my BS excuses are going to show up. The more my amygdala is going to scream, danger, threat warning. The more that I'm going to start justifying and rationalizing why I'd like to defend the status quo. I say, you know what? I don't really like. I'm not that bad at working out at home. Or I would love to get gym membership. The thing is, is it's a 20 minute walk away. So I can't do it. Right. You are, the person is selling that to me.

(19:17): And you say, you know what, plumber? You're right. You're right. It is a 20 minute walk. I don't think that you should get this membership. You're screwing me out of something. Good. And so you, as the sales person, making it about you is doing an injustice to that person who needs to be alleviated of their suffering. And so it is really, really important that you understand that you are being a passionate advocate for the other person's transformation. This is not about you. You need to come from a place of fundamental okayness, non neediness. I'm okay. No matter what, there are infinite potential clients that I can serve. This is not about me. This is about a person who sitting in front of me, who just revealed to me all the pain and suffering that they're going through. Whether that's, I'm struggling with their weight, whether that's struggling with their relationship, struggling with their business, whatever kind of struggle they are in whatever kind of burning building they are screaming in.

(20:05): But I see it all the time where it's like the woman goes for the clothes and the person that throws some weak excuse at her. And she says, okay, you know what? Just circle back. And it's two people who are pussy footing and bullshitting and people pleasing each other, the prospect who saying, let me circle back without an unintentioned to do so. And then the sales person who is so relieved of her responsibility to create some kind of tension that creates change, right? I don't want to be rude. I don't want to be impolite. I don't want to be pushy. All of this BS. You're making it about you. There's a person in front of you who just told you I need help. And a lot of the time we don't do what's good for us. That's an unfortunate thing, right? It's like, we know that we should go to the gym more, but we don't.

(20:53): We know we should be more vegetables, but we don't. And so we almost need to stand up for them like the parent, right? Parent and kid now, not to in any way patronize the person who's buying from us. But we do have special access to knowledge about how the transformation process works because we've led them down this transformation many, many, many times. And so it's just, I want to express how important it is. The tension is productive. The tension of as well. We move towards the close. There's more last minute resistance. That's an important point in the call where you show them tough love where you show them, Hey, I'm fully intending to be your coach. And this is what I'm going to stand up for you as your coach, when you throw me BS excuses as your coach too, I'm going to love you through those, but I'm not going to accept your narratives.

(21:43): I'm not gonna accept your narratives about why you can't they're suffering right now. They're struggling. And so they are in a particularly unresourceful state. They say, I don't have enough money. I don't have enough this, whatever. So what are you going to say? Yeah, you're right. You can't transform. You're right. I was wrong. No, you're going to stand up for their transformation. And that's why it's in no way taking advantage of them. If you feel like you're taking advantage of them, then look at your offer. Look at what you're giving. Do you believe it will help alleviate suffering? If the answer is no, then don't sell it to them. You don't have the right to make sure that you really believe in what you're selling. And then when you really believe in it, stand up for them, stand up for them, negotiate for them. Not for yourself. Oh, so good. I can listen to you talk all day.

(22:28): There was something that I was going to ask you to elaborate on it and it was about, Oh, how do you want people to feel after working with you? Ooh, that's an interesting question. After their, after they're my client. Yeah. Free. Yeah. Period free. You know, it's actually, okay. I'm not a person who really believes in like false modesty and humility, whatever. Like I'm really good at what I do. I'm not going to lie. There's stuff that I'm really shitty at. And I don't mind saying that I really suck at directions. Okay. But I'm really good at coaching. I'm not going to lie about that. It doesn't do anyone, any benefits, false modesty. But you know what? When I get a client that messaged me after working together, and this is about 99% of them that send me Poloma, you've changed my life. The reason they say that is because now they're free.

(23:20): They're free of their own bullshit. They're free of their limiting beliefs about what's possible for them. And I say that there's three things that I want for women. Three kinds of skills that are basically like the primary colors with which you can paint any painting, any envision for yourself and for your life. And those skills are sales skills, negotiation skills, and confidence skills. I treat confidence as a skill that can be learned. And so that's the yellow, blue, and red with those three primary colors, sales, negotiation, and confidence. You can paint any picture. You can do anything. And so it's so fascinating to me to watch my clients after we worked together and see where they end up and what they end up doing, I have different objectives for them. One objective is always the emotional objective of a place of freedom, where they feel they can close any number and then a tactical objection, which they want them to double their highest sale.

(24:18): And if they're doing hourly move to high ticket, but it's really cool what they do past my goals for them. It's really cool. I had one client who she came out in her forties on her podcast. She's been married to a man before and she felt free enough to say, this is who I am. And I'm proud of myself. I've had other clients who like the offer can change. You don't have to be married to a particular offer, but the capacity to sell is a lifelong transferable skill. And so I don't care if like you're selling how to train your horse course in five years from now, I don't care what you're selling. I care that you deeply care about it, that you are doing good things in the world and that you're closing very easily and with confidence. And so how do I want my people to feel?

(25:08): I want them to feel like a STEM cell. You can become anything that you want to create, like really a treat to be able to watch, what are you going to become? And they surprise me all the time. One of my clients is a, we started off with, she was doing digital marketing stuff. She was doing an online course for moms. And then her, the most recent iteration, which finally feels right to her is this writing boot camp because she's writing her life story and has found it to be so cathartic and so healing that now she wants to bring other women through that process. And so ultimately the skill is what we want. And then it's your paint brush and then paint any beautiful vision you want. And then I just get to sit back and watch you ride into the sunset and clap for you.

(25:51): Cry for you, sit at your Ted talk and be like a proud mama. There's something to be said in the same vein of how important it is to me, that women get read of putting sort of this clarity on a pedestal and embrace uncertainty and know that whatever happens like they are competent enough to deal with whatever comes their way, right? Like whatever the client says that feels or the potential client says, or doesn't say like that they have complete ability and competence to navigate uncertainty rather than feeling like they have to have this like perfectly wrapped up script. Right. Totally, totally, totally. And you know what, I'll just add to that. Uncertainty is an important part of all of our lives. It's not the most fun, but it can be really powerful and really creative. And so on the vein of script, my orientation, when it comes to teaching my clients is, okay, scripts can be like your training wheels, but my preferences to teach you sales sensibilities as opposed to scripts.

(26:54): And so I ended up basically building a schema for my students so we can evaluate their confidence in their conviction. I kind of reverse engineer my most successful clients. And it was like, okay, I didn't teach them exact language. I mean, exactly. It was just part of it, but that's not by far not the most important thing that I taught them. So what were the most important things that I taught them? And I broke it down to, there were seven sensibilities of sales, confidence that I was able to kind of boil it all down to. And I call that the conviction method, the systematic process by which I can evaluate somebody's confidence and conviction. And if all of these orders are 10 out of 10, you are a sales call genius. And so I'm not sure if we have time to go into the table, you can't leave us on a cliffhanger.

(27:42): You want to do the conviction test together. Are you down for that? Okay. So I'm going to write down your answers. And what we're going to do is we're going to build your conviction map, meaning what are your top sensibilities and what are your sensibilities that could be improved from that? The reason I built that it was like, I have this delicious online program and it's juicy. And so when I'm able to see what someone's top sensibilities and bottom sensibilities are, I know how to direct them within that online vault, without further ado, I'm going to share with you what the seven sensibilities are. And then I'm going to ask you a question. We're going to determine one to 10 on each of them. And then we'll find your final score out of 70 teacher. Like this is like next level expert. Like this is really great.

(28:27): Well, maybe this is how all experts should be, but like, this is like good, so much sensibility. Number one is introspection relationship with self. So the test is, do you have a strong, honest, loving relationship with yourself? Radical responsibility, self forgiveness, self awareness, awareness of your patterns, traumas, triggers, sensitivities, things like that. So on a scale from one to 10, 10 being highest, one being lowest, where would you rate yourself on the sensibility of introspection looking within strong, loving relationship with yourself? I wouldn't say like a six. Okay, beautiful. Thank you for your honesty. That's really wonderful because I can basically with whatever is the sensibility that is, I don't even know that the euphemistic nice way of saying the lowest. I don't know, but with whatever's the lowest sensibility I have direct activities and things that I did, that my clients have done to increase and improve that sensibility.

(29:23): So that's wonderful. So, okay. Number two is resilience to rejection. That is one of the most important, they're all important sensibilities, but that sensibility number two. So the test is, do you bounce back from rejection, easily scale from one to 10? Where would you put yourself on that? I would put myself at an eight. Okay, beautiful. Great. Okay. The next sensibility is deal-making and understanding of possibility. So do you see possibilities and opportunities everywhere consistently proposing deals instead of simply responding to the ideas of others? Oh yeah. Have 10. Oh, gorgeous. Amazing. Beautiful. Okay. So number four, the fourth sensibility that I teach is standards and non-negotiables. So do you have clearly defined standards and nonnegotiables for the crucial areas of your life? Friends, partners, clients, all that intentional clearly defined understanding of what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. I would say like a five. Okay. Beautiful sensibility. Number five is tough. Love audacity and authority. So the test is, do you risk being disliked by others to speak the difficult yet necessarily truth?

(30:40): I would say probably a six, a little bit more than average, but probably in the middle somewhere. So I would say six. Beautiful. I have mad respect for your honesty, sensibility. Number six, improvisation. That's why I brought these sensibilities up because when you said about uncertainty and provide information is a crucial sensibility that allows us to deal with uncertainty. So improvisation, experimentation and play is sensibility six. The test is, do you feel free to creatively respond, take risks, adjust on the spot and express your authentic personality. Yeah, I would say a nine. So gorgeous, amazing. And sensibility. Number seven is non neediness and fundamental okayness. The test is, do you feel equally comfortable with receiving a yes or no knowing with certainty? That you'll be okay. No matter what. Yeah. A 10 gorgeous. Okay, beautiful. So now I'm going to tell you your top worry.

(31:37): Sensibilities are three, six and seven. So three was deal-making and possibility are as tied for you. Number six, improvised and experimentation play as high for you and non neediness high for you. Amazing. That's really wonderful. So now we can say that the bottom three worth working on are four, five and one. So one is introspection relationship with yourself. That's where my whole online vault starts relationship to self is the foundation of everything. And number four, which was standards and nonnegotiables. So there's a lot of great stuff we can do there with pre-qualifying. I have a video in my online balls called Palomas people on it, 21 questions you can ask to figure out which people are deserving and worthy of being in your, your constellation of humans in your life. How to build your five non-negotiables for the sales call, things like that. And the final sensibility worth improving is the capacity for tough love.

(32:37): And so that super, super powerful that allows us the close. When they're throwing us all their objections, we can stand up for them, lead people in an honest, refreshing way that builds depth of connection and greater intimacy. And so that's how we build your conviction map. And from there, we have the perfect plan of how do you, where my client, I would say to you, okay, they go to this, this, this section, and then we're going to debrief together. And so that's how I'm able to on purpose schematically, systematically, evaluate someone's confidence and conviction, and then we can work through it together so that they can close deals that they've never imagined that they could. That's so cool. Palace, what's the details of your offer? Like what do you sell and how can we get that? So if you are liking this and like what Poloma is saying and teaching, she's going to share with us how we can get it.

(33:28): Where do we, where do we go? Yes. Okay. So first of all, feel free to add me on Facebook and LinkedIn Poloma, Lev L E V is my last name. I do private mentorships with clients. I take on only a handful every month because I am absolutely not cheap. And so I can't take on too many clients every month, but the people that I do take on, we go full force. So first you should come into my DMS and say, well, Alma, you're exactly what I need. Thank God. You don't have enough red heads in my life. I want to learn how to close. I want to use the conviction method to be able to make big deals and persuade me that I should coach you. And then we'll get on a sales call and then you'll pay pal me a nice big chunk of money. And then I'll change your life.

(34:14): You will become the STEM cell. You can turn into anything. And then second, I have the sales confidence university. Nobody knows this yet, but I don't mind to say it to your peeps. Something that I have in the works is usually that's a privilege only for my high ticket clients. They get access to my vault of about 25 online courses. I know that's nuts, but I said that I have add, I don't have fast things. Only fully pull ask them or don't do them at all. And so I've been building these online courses for years and years and years now, a private privilege for my head to get clients. But I am thinking of, and in the process of moving that into a membership style site, because I've had a lot of my clients who were like, yo, more people need to access this. And so that's something that is in the works currently.

(35:02): Cool. And so, yeah, but the best way is to reach out to me specifically, I have a Facebook group sell anything with bad-ass confidence. That's w slash because can't use four letters in this day and age, people just don't have the attention span. So anything with badass confidence, colon high ticket sales secrets. So that's my Facebook group feel free to join. Just pester me and tell me that you want my help and all and all that. Right. It's like, it's like, just come say hi, and we'll take it from there. Exactly. What do you think is a common lie that runs in our industry? Ooh, that's a juicy one. Well, definitely a common lie. Is that it's about the tactics. Yeah. It's really like sales tactics. Haven't been updated much for the last, I don't know, 50 years. And so they're quite like robotic. It's like, Steve, how would you feel if I could tell you that it's just like robotic scripted kind of bullshit.

(36:03): Or like, I have to ask my wife first. Oh, you asked me if your wife wears the pants in the family. Like it's just really outdated. Right? And so the newest innovation is tough. Love, like the refreshing, just how refreshing honesty is. So I learned tough love from my mama. She is remarkable. She is the highest of the high on tough and the highest of the high on love at the exact same time. So I would bring her my essays. I did a masters in English, creative writing. And I, as soon as I show my mom my essays and I'd be like, what do you think? And she's like, hello, mom, you don't even know you're arguing here. Like she won't even sugar coat it. You know, she would just give it to you straight up and it hurt. But she made me into a really strong writer, a really strong communicator.

(36:52): And so ultimately it's about your story. Ultimately, your prospect is just a mirror of you. So when it comes to objection, handling, if they're saying it's too expensive or another coach is cheaper, if they're actually picking up often on your pricing anxiety, they're often picking up on your lack of belief in yourself. I was helping one of my clients who has a VA business and she was getting all kinds of like crazy objections. I, and we did the sales call roll plan. I said, no wonder of course, because she didn't believe in herself. And it was clear. The thing is your prospects have like extra vision for your thoughts. They can hear your thoughts. And so if you're thinking, Oh God, I really need to close this sale. You're not going to close the sale. If you're thinking desperate or needy thoughts, if you're thinking of, I really need, I need this.

(37:44): If you are thinking, I hope they like me. Any of those self-defeating thoughts, the prospect can literally hear you, Shawna, do you know what I'm thinking on a sales call? I'm thinking this person would be so freaking lucky if I said yes to them. And I might say no to them, if they're a pain in the ass, that's literally what I'm thinking. And so they understand what an opportunity is. They understand that if I put a hundred thousand bucks is my price tag, it would still not be high enough to be the equivalent of the value of the caring, the intentionality, the tough love, the power of what I teach and what I invite someone into in that kind of spiritual exchange of client and mentor. You know? Absolutely. There's one thing that I've been thinking about recently about them, mirroring yourself, like with your clients, is that the more that you attract people, right?

(38:37): Like you're attracting like minded people. And so what ends up happening is if you get on these phone calls with somebody who you're like, you're vibing with you're jiving with like, you're like, wow, like I, you know, like there's like great route, like relationship here, whatever. A lot of times, what will end up happening is you will limit your ability to move the conversation forward. If they're too much like you do, because you want to be liked, right? Like you don't want to, you're not going to ask those hard questions. You're not going to have refreshing honesty. If your own biases are getting in the way with somebody who is like you. Hmm. Interesting. That's an interesting theory. You know, I feel that ultimately when it comes to the tough love thing, it's kind of a thing of like, I would like to be liked, but I'm okay to not be liked.

(39:27): And you know why? Because I freaking adore myself. I would love to be like, but I don't need to be liked. Oh, go ahead. Sorry, finish that thought. But basically I just pick being respected over being liked. And ultimately people will be so grateful for your honesty in this world. How often does someone really stand up for your highest? Good and basically tell you like my dear, that sounds like self sabotage. Trust me, I get it. I made all the excuses in the world. Like brilliant people were brilliant at, I kind of rationalizing any choice, but like I love the, let me think about it. Objection, for example, because it's the perfect opportunity for standing up for them with tough love. And it actually, it isn't going to double or nothing. Just like humor on a sales call is double or nothing, right. It either doubles the intimacy and brings you guys closer or it pushes you apart in alienates you from each other more often than not talk love brings you together.

(40:25): And then you've really earned that intimacy between the two of you, because you've said, okay, like, can we drop the quit, drop the narrative for a second? Like, what's really going on here. Let's be a hundred percent with each other and bring your own vulnerability to the table to totally. Okay. So one common fear that I hear a lot is people are afraid to poke and masturbate the problem. So they don't want to be like the sorts of people's pain. Right? Like they don't want to open a wound if you will. So you spoke about this a little bit earlier about like, kind of like being in the tension with them. Like how can you sell while still like growing awareness of the problem without feeling like your, just like making it worse. Super interesting. Okay. So Shawna, if I give you a flu shot, I'm a nurse practitioner.

(41:13): Now give me a flu shot. Am I hurting you? Am I doing something bad to you? No. I'm helping you rip off a bandaid that needs to be ripped off the salesperson. We are not the source of your pain. We are the person who is, well, you want to put a bandaid on a broken yeah. And bone I'm you, baby. You got a broken bone. I'm not going to let you walk away with just a bandaid. I care about you too much. I didn't break their bone. They came to me with a broken bone. They thought they just had a little wound. And I said, my dear, I'm sorry to say, it's deeper than you think that's the bad news. But the good news is I know how to help you. And so you are not the source of their pain. You must open a wound to clean it out.

(41:58): You need to get their consent and their permission to write. But ultimately you are not making it worse. Part of sales is really like looking at the problem is sobering eyes. Do you know how often we, it's not fun to talk about our problems. It's not fun to stand in the light. It's not fun, but how can you move forward without first bringing it to the light? Right? Like the first step of everything is admitting it. And so if they're on a sales call with you, they have a broken bone. Even the window shoppers, they have had a chronically broken bone. And it's even more important that you know that you stand up for them, but you can't take it personally. That thing is when your kids are crying because you gave them the flu shot. I don't know. Some of you are like, anti-vaccine right.

(42:50): Don't make me jump over the line. I need to work on that sales sensibility. I think that was one. Give me your kids broccoli. Or I know I need people to like me. You are not the source of their pain. They are in pain. That's why they're talking to you by you. Like, you don't want any people have sugarcoated and people pleased a lot of enablers in that person's life have said to them, Oh, it's not that bad. Don't worry about it. Or they'll be fine. But it's like, this is the funny thing, Sean. So if someone says to me, let me think about it. Yep. Look, I am like Raven Simone. I can tell you the future. Like I have that moment where I see in the future a year from now, you're going to be sending me a message saying, plum, I need to work on my sales skills again.

(43:43): Cause I'm struggling to closing. It's going to happen a year from now. Really? It happens again again, the young people who don't go ahead and the problem just gets worse, right? How does a broken bone after a year of a year of suffering, how much better is it? Then you are preventing their suffering. You're preventing their suffering, but it does take an upfront dose of honesty where it's like, it's funny. I had a, well, it's not funny. I had a period where I was prediabetic. Cause I was really overworking. I basically got to a point of being like a major workaholic and it was shitty. Of course I went to the doctor and she was like, you're in the prediabetic category, which is scary. Cause two people in my family have diabetes and don't want that. And that moment where she said that to me, she wasn't like, Oh, but don't worry about it.

(44:33): You're probably going to be fine. Yeah. Nice. No, that would be hurting me instead. She was like, okay. I suggest you go on a low carb. Let's just do this, this, this, this, this, I did it. I lost like 20, 30 pounds. I went from a place of having so much like brain fog and exhaustion and inflammation, all these things to being on such a healthier mental, emotional, physical place. But she didn't sugar coat it. She said, well your health take it seriously. And it's like, do not Rob somebody of their rock. Bottom do not. That is the moment where things can really, really change. And you know, for those of us who kind of learned codependent tendencies, growing up, we want to take other people's suffering and pain away from them. We don't require other people to take responsibility for that. That's a problem.

(45:23): Just doing things for people trying to fix people, but we can't fix somebody without their consent that we help them. Right. And so they must be consensual transaction where both people say something needs to change. Totally. And I'm not afraid of, if I tell you what I see as the truth in love, and you want to say, F-you Poloma, go ahead. That's fine. I can stand it. I love myself enough. I love myself through it. It's fine. I don't need your approval because ultimately it's so funny. The same person that's gonna throw an objection. Literally I have people all the time. They're like, it's too expensive. This, this, this, let me think. Whatever, bust through the bullshit. And they end up working with me and a week later they're like, Oh my God, thank God. Thank God. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And a week earlier they were throwing objections.

(46:12): I know what's on the other side. And so it's like, I've seen the light. Yeah. It sounds silly. Like with the example like of going to the doctor and the doctor just sort of shrugging you off and say, all right, if you want it, you can come back and let me know. But that's how our sales calls, like it's sort of there. You're just sort of shrugging off this, like yeah, go ahead. You can just keep doing what you're doing and you circle back and let me know if this is, you know, when you want. And it's like, yes, no. Like that's not how this works with somebody who needs what you have. Right, right. A hundred percent. Okay. I have two more questions and then we'll wrap it up. Are you ready? Of course. Okay. So who is Poloma outside of work? Tell us who that is. Such an amazing question.

(47:01): You okay? I love, I absolutely love the beach and I absolutely love the nude beach. It just makes me really happy. Where do you learn? Don't you live in like Ohio? There's this friend I live in Canada. I literally tell my friends. They're like, can we hang out this day? I'm like, well, if the weather is blah, blah, blah or higher, I'll be on the beach. And if it's a rainy day, like literally I have a friend like plumbing next rainy day messaged me. Let's talk. So I love, yeah. I love the beach and I love being in water. I feel like I'm a fish. I'm not a great swimmer, but I love being in water. I'm a creative. So I'm an artist. I grew up in the suburbs and I was wildly bored. I'm an add. Or I belong in like a city, you know?

(47:50): So I wrote a ton of poetry growing up and I made a ton of art growing up. So if you go to my Facebook, you can see my art album. I like to paint faces. And like if I'm humans fascinating in all different ways and so anything creative, I love cooking. I love food. I love food shows. Ooh. I don't watch a lot of Netflix because I pro I dunno, I find my work so truly more interesting. But every once in a while, I'll get into a really good show. Like have you watched Indian matchmaking sign out? No, it's never binge watched a show before, but I literally stayed up all night. Watching is fascinating. I love, I love creative things and I love humans. And I love going to New York. New York is really, I haven't been this summer, obviously with what's going on, but I spent the last five summers in Brooklyn because New York is a place that like makes my heart sing.

(48:46): And I feel like my people are there. So that's there. Those are some things that I love to do outside of work. Oh. And I'm an avid collector of lipsticks. Anybody who knows me knows. I didn't know that about you. That's awesome. I love a good lipstick. Do you have a favorite brand? My favorite brand is called little sister recycled lipsticks. So my little sister, she just buys everything, tries it. And if she doesn't like it, so I don't even have to, like, she knows all the brands. She's just like, here's the next load? Here's 20 that I'm like, they're not the right color. And I'm like, girl hooked me up. I love it. That's awesome. Okay. So the last question and I try and ask everybody who's I don't have a ton of guests. I try to be really picky. So I feel really lucky to have you here, but I like to ask everyone who's on the show to simply answer.

(49:35): When was the last time that you were so thankful that somebody sold you? Hmm. I love that question. I worked with a healing and relationship coach and it was more than I'd ever invested. And I was on the fence about it for a couple days. And because she didn't, I mean, I just, because we're in sales doesn't mean we don't throw objections and do the whole song and dance to right. Sure. I threw her objection. Objection, objection. But she calmly peacefully said, I think this will be really beneficial for you. And and I'm very glad she did. It was nerve wracking to do it. It was nervous. I think even just to be, to allow myself to be led and to receive as opposed to being the leader. But I'm very grateful for her that she sold me and she was just very classy.

(50:28): She was very confident. I liked the polarity between how she thinks and how I think. And yeah, it was a beautiful thing. I'm grateful for her, for selling me. I didn't even think that I was going to buy it. It was literally just reaching out to her, but she made me offer. And I'm glad that she did. Yay. Are we so glad when people sell something that we're so grateful for? It's like, wow, thank you so much. Totally. I love that question. Cool. Okay. Well, this wraps up our episode. If you guys want to check out Poloma, you know where to find her it's Poloma, L E V. She's a great person and a great friend. So I appreciate you being on here today. Thank you, Shauna. I love the crap out of you. I liked and heart every one of your adorable kid pics, because you are a beautiful soul and I'm sending you a big old hug from Toronto. Oh, thank you. Not Ohio.

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