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Highlights from this episode include:

  • How to avoid settling for soul-crushing “red-flag” clients when you first start selling (2:18)
  • Not understanding this crucial aspect of your offer will cause you to fail before you ever meet your first client (6:32)
  • Get this one thing wrong, and your relationship with your clients will be a source of constant misery (10:34)
  • This is a huge warning sign that you’re about to work with the wrong client (15:08)
  • How you fall into a desperation mindset, and how to fix it (17:01)
  • This simple mindset shift can turn you into a super-salesperson (18:02)
  • Approach your service like this to turn one-time sales into secure, recurring revenue (23:20)
Read Full Transcript

There's two types of people who hear consensual sales in the first go, Oh, Eww, Shawna, that is not what you want to say. There are better words to use and the second type here, consensual sales and say, you know what? You're right. I don't want to talk my way into the sale. I don't want to memorize a script. You just want to work with clients who are excited to work with you. Now that's consensual sales.

Hey, Hey everybody. It is me, Shauna and you guys. You're going to love this episode because my good friend Becky and a genius copywriter is coming in here to speak with us about how you can really satisfy your clients instead of just being like an order taker, right? So your client comes to you and they're, Oh man, like I just need this, this and this. And there's a way that you can really satisfy your client beyond just taking these kind of generic orders. And when you do that, you're actually going to be able to make more money in your business that impacts your family directly. And Becky actually from seduce your market is going to tell us all about it. Okay, Becky, hello?

(01:07): Hello. I'm excited to be here.

(01:11): I keep telling myself, I'm like, okay, we have to make this 20 minutes that sort of like the threshold that we're going for with this podcast. And so I was like, man, this could go for days. And because I think that you are one of the smartest people that I know and I've just always appreciated your perspective on my own business and how you've helped even just my own clients navigate, sort of how do you really communicate in a way that gets your clients excited and willing to give you money? So why don't you go ahead and just start off what's on your mind about all that?

(01:42): Awesome. Awesome. So first of all, thank you. That is really high praise coming from you. I appreciate it very much. I love working with you all the time because it's just like super happy, fun time all the time. Okay. So when it comes to getting clients that appreciate you, what most new business owners go through is when they're getting clients, they get a lot of what I call red flag clients, right? These are the clients that don't want to pay you any money or they want to tell you how to do your job or they're not happy no matter what you do. And the way to get past this is actually, it starts way before you even talk to them. So the first thing that you want to do is make sure that you know what your value is, what you are bringing to the table as an expert in your niche, right?

(02:37): So if you know everything, I'm just going to use Shannon for an example because it's Shawna's show. If you know how to have those conversations that lead to sales, but don't feel gross, then know that that's your value and knows that the people who are best to work with will see your value and those who don't see your value, those are red flag clients if they're already before you even exchange money. If clients are making demands or trying to get you to change your prices or showing other ways that they don't appreciate you, that's a sure fire sign that working together with them is going to be a nightmare. And the thing is here, it doesn't matter how awesome you are or how much you give them. If these kinds of red flags are there from the beginning, nothing you say do. You could give them the moon and your firstborn child and $1 million and a yacht and they still would be like, yeah, but you didn't do this.

(03:47): Like what do you even do with those kinds of people? You just don't work with them. Absolutely. So the second thing that you would want to do is try to listen for what they aren't saying because you as the expert in your industry, you have the benefit of experience that the person who's coming to work with you doesn't have. So they may think that they know what they need to solve a problem, but you've been around the block, you know what you're doing. And so if they're like, well, I just need to do X, Y, Z, and you're sitting there like, no, that's not what you need at all. For example, do you mind if I share a story? We love stories. I want to get this story. Okay, so there was one client that just insisted that he needed better copy. He's like, my copy isn't great and that's why I'm not getting any customers.

(04:46): That's why I'm not getting any new people is why my conversion rates sucked. And I looked at it and I was like, okay, let me ask you one question. Who is your ideal client? And he was like, well, you know everybody who's in real estate. I was like, okay, well there are a lot of different types of real estate. What kind of real estate do you target? And it was like, well, all of it, I can work with all of it. I'm like, see, that's why. That's right. Why you're not getting clients. Because if somebody is like, well, I need somebody who specializes in commercial real estate, they're not going to come to you because they don't think that you have that specific expertise that they need. Right. Whereas once he niched down and he got to where he was specializing in investor type real estate for people who wanted to flip properties and make money off of that, just buy it, fix it up and flip it. Then he started getting more people who are interested in working with him because they understood what he had to offer. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, so I'm hearing you say, just to recap quickly, like how do you satisfy your customers in the very first

(05:58): thing is that you want to make sure that your problems are coming way before you actually speak to them. And then that led into the second point where it's like, okay, do you even know who you're talking to?

(06:09): Yeah. So the first point is know what you have to offer because one of the key ingredients in a satisfying business relationship is where both partners were, both people in the transaction are bringing something of value to the table. So you have to know what your value is that you're bringing to the table before you even step up.

(06:34): Yeah. I'm so glad that you said this because I actually had this conversation with Megan yesterday who wants to reach out to the so-and-so brand and she's kind of shit in her pants. She's like, I don't know if I can do it. These guys are like, so that's up. Did you know there are big wigs, they have all this energy and whatever and she's, Oh, it's just me. And so she absolutely falls into that first category of not knowing what she has to offer. So I'd love to know, I mean like, not to go on like a huge tangent, but how do you think people discover what that is? Like how do you know what you have to offer and feel confident that it's going to make a difference? It's worth paying for.

(07:08): Yes. So here's the beautiful thing about this, because we're at a seducer market, we compare everything to dating and relationships. It's kind of like, well, what do you have to offer a new partner? Right? So what you do is you first want to make a list, and most people, if they're in business for any amount of time, they've got a dozen of these lists, but what are the kinds of things that you find easy to do or that you really love doing that you have heard that other people hate or they just can't figure it out? I mean, accounting is a good example of this. Some people love numbers and some people are like, Nope, not today, Satan. So if there's something that you absolutely love and you can do easily, but you look out and you can find people who can't do it easily or who hate doing it, that's one of your assets.

(08:07): Another way to look at it is just what are the things that when you do, they don't take effort or you're not struggling to put the effort in? Like, what are the things that kind of come to you naturally that you can just get into and you could do it for hours even if you weren't being paid. Those are a couple of really great ways to find out what your value is and you can also phone a friend, ask them what they like best about you. Let's look through past client testimonials. See what they said. A lot of times you'll find things in past client testimonials that you didn't even realize because there's such a natural thing for you and you're like, Oh, well a lot of people are saying that. They really found it easy to work with me. That's something that I bring to the table. I make it easy. Right?

(08:55): Great point. Okay, keep going. How else can we satisfy our clients? So really we got the first now like what we bring to the table. Thank you for sharing all that.

(09:03): Yeah, what you bring to the table. The second is make sure that you're getting matched up with the right person. Know who your ideal person is. Because just like in dating, you are not for everybody. You're not going to just accept everybody who walks in off the street, like there may be a lot of people that want to work with you, but that doesn't mean that they would be good for you to work with.

(09:27): Yes, and this is not something that I always want to drive home, is that your clients don't always have to be the ones who benefit from working. Like we also want to make sure that you are benefiting from this working relationship. It has to be mutually beneficial.

(09:42): Absolutely. Absolutely. For me, that's actually a deal breaker. If it's not a mutually beneficial arrangement, it's not going to work. And let me tell you why people just do basic psychology, people do better work when they feel the exchange is even and when they feel valued and appreciated for the work that they're doing or for their contribution to the relationship. So that's one way to make sure that you're really satisfying them is they're getting as much or more out of it than you are getting. So the best relationships are when both sides think that they got the better end of the deal.

(10:29): And to speak to that too. It's not enjoyable to, how do I want to say this without going there? It's not fun to be on the receiving side and somebody isn't enjoying it. Here's an example. Like I have a graphic designer, right? It's not fun for me to just like cut her a check and wipe our hands and it's like business. Like it's so much easier for me to keep her on and pull her in for bigger projects and she gets more money when she's excited about what I'm doing. So when you are enthusiastic about doing the work for somebody, it makes the experience and ability for them to give you even more money.

(11:10): Does that make sense? Absolutely. And it doesn't feel like work when you build these relationships, right? It doesn't feel like work. Your clients are going to feel like some of your besties. That's just how it works out because you have cherry picked the right people for you. And those are the people that you can't wait to give them money because you know that whenever you give them money, they create this awesome thing for you. And that's how your clients are gonna feel when you pick the right clients. They can't wait to give you money because they know every time they give you money you make magic happen for them. And so it's this wonderful cycle of I will give more because you give me more and, and it just keeps going round and round and it's amazing.

(11:56): Oh yeah. And that's all I'm thinking about as sort of I'm making moves in my business to scale smaller membership. It's like I can't wait. I literally, I've thought this to myself. I'm like, I can't wait until I have enough money where I can pay her like double or triple. Right. So you're incentivizing that behavior by making sure that you're paired with the right person who's work that you're excited about and respect

(12:17): and the quality of work that they give you is going to be of higher quality than for someone who is not a good match. Who's making all of these demands? Who's putting all of these requirements in there that don't need to be in there and having you change everything and, and there is a difference between good client feedback. So not everybody gets it right 100% of the time. There's going to be a little bit of feedback, but when you are working with someone who's right, that feedback is going to feel constructive. When you're working with somebody who is wrong, that feedback is going to make you feel small and you're going to hate it and you're not going to want to talk to them because they just make this just negative all the time and you just don't like it.

(13:06): Thank you for sharing that. You're absolutely right. I'm curious to know the other side is what if you have some skepticism? What if you're like, well sure this sounds nice, but are there really perfect fit clients out there for me? Like where are they? Or do they even exist?

(13:22): Yes, they absolutely exist. So there is something that I'm actually going to be sharing soon in my own space, but you guys get it here first because Tet da bonus, we're friends here too, so you get all the juicy deets. People will treat you the way that they think. You expect them to treat you, which means if you expect people to treat you the way that your ideal customer would treat you, then all of a sudden you are going to start seeing more and more of your ideal customers pop out. The reason that you probably have a lot of red flag clients right now is there maybe something in the back of your head saying that you don't deserve this or you have to start working with any client you can get to begin with. You can't just go after your ideal client from the start where you just have to take what you can get because that's where the money is. And that's such a lie. That is not true.

(14:32): Tell us more about that. This is juicy. This is juicy cause we all feel like that I got bills to pay. Like I got a family to care for. Like how do I not start feeling desperate and going for these red flag clients?

(14:44): Right. So there's a difference between hustling for the right clients and taking a bunch of red flag clients because you're desperate and you need the money. Right? So if it feels like you are compromising any part of your values to work with somebody, don't work with them. It's the same as dating. You know, if, if it would be a compromise of your value, you're like I don't really like them. I'm not into them, but they're going to buy me dinner. Really you wouldn't do that. Dinner is not worth your self esteem. It's not worth compromising your standards. And also you're using that person, right? There's no real connection. There's no real potential for a connection. So why even bother? But it can be easy to think, Oh well I can't get any better because I'm new or I don't really know what I have to offer yet. Or you know, I haven't worked with a whole lot of people yet, but those are in your head, right? If you have value, you have value regardless of how many people you've worked with. If you have value, you have that regardless of who sees it in you, but it is your job to convey that value out into the marketplace so your ideal clients can know that you're there if you don't ever put it out there, how can they take advantage of it?

(16:05): Yeah. So let me just sort of summarize what I think what you're saying. So it's like part of satisfying your clients is by not taking the crummy red flag clients and you are able to attract more of your ideal clients and satisfy them completely when you refuse not so great clients. Right. Am I saying that right?

(16:25): Yeah. It's also in the expectations. So people start out with the expectation that I have to take whatever I can get because I'm new or I have to do whatever it takes. But that's a desperation mindset, right? That's not actually valuing your worth.

(16:41): Yes. Can we talk about that? Can we talk about what it feels like to be desperate and how to like stop feeling that? Like what do we need to do instead?

(16:48): Right. So it sounds difficult. It seems like it's a difficult thing, but really it's easier than it seems. So the reason that people get into the desperation mindset is a lot of self doubt and imposter syndrome. And you know that those things just love to rare their nasty little heads all over the place. But part of the problem is that you as a business owner tend to take yourself for granted. You tend to take your gifts and your abilities and your talents for granted, and you don't actually appreciate yourself. So if you don't appreciate yourself, you're going to attract people. You're modeling that behavior out to the world. And a lot of that is done through language that you don't even realize that you're putting it out there. But that's like, that's my jam. So, but if you are not valuing, if you are not appreciating yourself and you're putting that out, then that's what you're going to get back.

(17:52): So if you just shift your mindset to I love myself, I value myself, I appreciate my contribution to this business transaction, to this business relationship. It's like magic. Seriously. When you start appreciating yourself and valuing yourself and you put that out in the marketplace, all of a sudden people who value you and appreciate you start showing up in your world, but they can't see you when you're in a different mindset. When you're in that scarce desperate mindset, they can't see you because you're only talking to the other people who are in that mindset. Does that make sense?

(18:29): Yeah. I just shared this a little bit in the previous podcast episode about when you come across too desperate, it comes across as too eager and people can only chase what is walking away from them. So like if you can keep it like cool if you can't be anything but desperate, like it's going to make it impossible for those clients to really value your service.

(18:50): Yeah. Do you know who values the really desperate people who, predators, people who want to take advantage of you, who want to get more out of it, then they give, those are who take advantage of that desperate energy. Those are the red flag clients. Sure. So I know it's powerful, right? They're looking for somebody who can't get anybody else. So they'll go against their better judgment and work with them. And maybe it's not as conscious to them as it seems. But when you look at the psychology of how people interact, this is what's happening with red flag clients. It's, they're taking advantage of somebody who they think that they can push around and they can control and they can use as they see fit. And it's not right. It's not right. It's not right at all. So, and that's what leads to high customer dissatisfaction.

(19:41): The thing is, so this actually we haven't quite gotten to my third point yet, but it ties in nicely to all of this. The third point is if you think about your business from the customer's point of view and you make each and every point along the way customized to your ideal client to give them the value that they need from you and to make them feel safe, secure working with you and like you are listening to their needs. You are giving them what they've asked you to give them and you're even throwing in a little bit of extra on top because you like working with them and you want them to have a good time. It's like the chocolate chip cookies at DoubleTree hotel. You could stay at any hotel. I love that place, but they go above and beyond chocolate chip cookies that are so good that I would stay there just for the cookies, but that's what clients are looking for when they come to you.

(20:43): It's not just about the initial conversation, not just about the sale. It's not just about the delivery, it's about how all of those pieces work together to create a satisfying customer experience where they feel heard, seen, protected, and they're getting what you promised they can trust you. Right. That kind of a relationship that will repeat customer all day, every day because where else can they go and get that kind of service? Like nowhere. It's with you. You are the one that treats them well. All the other companies out there treating them like they're disposable players like their one night stands. Right?

(21:26): Yeah. I think there's something to be said too about how when you treat your customers good like this, they can't imagine life without you. They can't imagine running your business without you and I have felt that way about certain people who have been in my business where it's, man, I need to keep you around long term. Like I'm going to pull you into every project. I'm going to refer you to my favorite people because you've done such a good job that it's easy for me to hire you again and keep you around long term.

(21:51): Yeah. They make life better. They add that value. That's really all people are looking for is they're looking when they're looking for a solution, any customer who is out there looking to buy something, they're looking for a solution to a problem. If you can solve that problem and then some and show them how you can solve all the other problems that they may have, all they have to do is just keep hanging with you and you guys like working together. Why wouldn't they stay with you? They'll stay with you forever.

(22:20): Yeah, absolutely. So how would you summarize, and to simply say like when you're able to satisfy your customers, how does that get you more money? How would you say that in your own words?

(22:30): Well, right there, if you can create a customer experience that is completely satisfying, not only will you have repeat customers and just from a business standpoint, repeat customers are easier to keep than it is to obtain new customers. So right there, you know you've got more money in the bank, you're increasing the average lifetime value of the customer, which is great. You're getting the word of mouth referrals from the customer. Plus you are able to charge higher prices because they can't get that kind of service just anywhere. Like they could go anywhere and get a logo. Sure, but can they find someone who actually gets them, who understands, who can give them what they need and work with them and the way that you do and make them feel the way that you do know so you can charge higher prices for that and they will gladly pay for it. Here's the thing, they will appreciate being able to show you with the money that they're paying you, how much they appreciate the attention that you're giving them. That equals the balance in the relationship and so they will gladly pay you those higher fees if you can give them a mindblowing customer experience.

(23:54): Yeah. Where do you want to take this conversation? What sort of else is on your mind right now? You know, I could go for hours. That's a problem here. I love all of this. There's so many

(24:07): nuances, but just to sum up here, if people take away one thing from this conversation, I would hope that they take away the fact that if they truly value and appreciate themselves and what they have to offer to the marketplace, then the marketplace will absolutely deliver the kind of customers that also value and appreciate what you're bringing to the marketplace. And all of that is, is in how you communicate what you have to offer to them,

(24:44): and how do we be better communicators? How do we become better communicators? Tell us what we need to

(24:55): become a better communicator is, is free. And that's just to really listen and try to understand what they're not saying or, or what they're trying to say, but not exactly communicating. And that's just listening to them like not listening so that you can speak and you can offer a diagnosis, but listen to understand because if you can understand them, you're already light years ahead of your competition. Other than that, I suggest you learn how to seduce your market with me.

(25:25): Yeah,

(25:26): yeah. Because that's really what it boils down to. People are tired of being sold and they want a connection. They want somebody to see and hear them and value them. Even if it's just in a business transaction. I would invite you to my party at Facebook. Do we want to do that now?

(25:44): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rattle them off.

(25:46): Okay, so I am giving away some extra goodies for this audience. If they want to go ahead and come over to my Facebook group, which is facebook.com/groups/seduce your market and I will have a free course on the basics of communication up and waiting for you to go through.

(26:10): Awesome. Hey, seduce your market. Before we go. Do you think that saying seduce your apartment feels like you might be tricking people?

(26:19): No, absolutely not. Because seduction isn't about deception at all. Seduction is about giving people permission to say yes to something they already want but won't allow themselves to have. For whatever reason.

(26:35): Becky, that gave me chills. That is so good. Say it again, right? So seduction is not about getting people say yes

(26:44): to something that they don't want. It's about giving them a chance to say yes. So what they do want? Yeah, it's not deception, it's permission. It's allowing them to have something that they really want but they don't think that they can have or they won't allow them

(26:58): themselves to have. Cause a lot of times people want help, but they won't even allow themselves to ask for help. So if you give them the permission to ask you for help, you've just seduced them. This is good. It's so good, right?

(27:20): Knock knock, who's there? There's fines banging on your door, ready to give you money and book your services. But they're asking hard questions like, how much is it? Who are you? Exactly and how do I know you can help me? Your brain melts and you feel like a deer in headlights. You've worked way too hard for this opportunity. You can't let it slip away. So here's what you need to do right now. Grab your phone and text consensual sales. It's one word to five, five, five, eight, eight, eight. Again, it's triple five triple eight. The word consensual sales, where I will get on the phone with you and I'll tell you exactly what to say to make more money and close those deals.

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