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Warren Barry is an award-winning pioneer in the field of human resources who studies the implications of counterintuitive work environments on individuals and organizations. Warren brings insights to employees, employers, and human resource professionals alike which leads to harmony, productivity, and profitability.

Show highlights include:

  • Why hiring “smart and nice” people may set your team up for failure (6:15)
  • The “Formula” for hiring happy, focused, and dynamic team members that elevate each other (7:12)
  • The simple test that liberates you from constant struggle and frustration (9:05)
  • How getting in trouble at school lead to massive success in business (13:05)
  • How to use this “brain component” to increase team motivation and unlock faster growth (15:35)
  • The “specialist” formula for scalability, profitability, and ultimate happiness (36:00)

If you want to learn more about Warren Barry, please visit   https://www.instinctivesolutions.ca/

Or hit us through our Contact Page at https://buildernuggets.com and we’ll make a personal introduction.

To get the most out of this podcast, head over to https://buildernuggets.com and join our active community of like-minded builders and remodelers.

Read Full Transcript

You're the first person who told me what's right with me.

Welcome to builder nuggets, hosted by Duane Johns and Dave young. Hey, our mission is simple. Build freedom, Where a couple of entrepreneurs turn business coaches who have dedicated ourselves to helping our builder remodel. Our clients create the most rewarding businesses in the Industry. My co host Duane has been a successful builder and remodeler for over 30 years. He's seen the highs and the lows from the beginning though. Duane has been on a quest to find a better way to run a contracting business in 2016, he found that better way. That's how I met Dave, a lifelong entrepreneur and visionary who measures his success by the success of those around them. You reached out one day with a formula on how to transform my business and the rest is history. Since then, we've teamed up to help hundreds of contractors like you build better businesses and better lives. And now we've decided to open up our network and share our secrets. So we can start moving the needle with you. It's collaboration over competition. Each week we bring together industry peers and experts who share their stories so that we can all build freedom together.

(01:08): We have a special episode for you today. Duane is driving his son to college. So I get to go one on one with a coach who has been dedicating himself to helping entrepreneurs build amazing teams. Or you could say helping teams build amazing entrepreneurs. If you'd like to add harmony, productivity and profitability to your business, then you'll appreciate the nuggets. He's about to share. He's a podcaster speaker for tech, Canada, and Vistage international as a business coach, people have been calling him Mr. Colby, but as you'll soon learn, he's also becoming renowned as Mr. Duck, duck goose. Well in his signature shirts, of course, hailing from Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada. Welcome Warren Barry. Well, why. Thank you, Dave. That, uh, that was a fantastic introduction. And you do, you do have some super cool shirts. I know it's a podcast and we'll, we'll put some screenshots up, but, uh, I had to throw one on today for fun too, because you're a really fun character. And, and I know from having chatted with you and the, uh, and some of the teams that you've coached that you like to sprinkle in a whole bunch of fun and, and we touched on it, you know, I touched on it there in the, um, in the intro that, uh, you know, you need harmony, there's gotta be some fun if you're going to have harmony and, and productivity. So thanks for bringing your positivity and your enthusiasm to our, to our show today and to our audience.

(02:40): And, uh, I must say that, uh, I, yeah, I think I, I believe honestly, truly that learning should always be fun. And, uh, and I do wanna say, uh, you know, uh, thank you to you and Dwayne for actually having me on as a guest is, uh, it's a great opportunity. This gonna be this, this is gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's interesting. And, uh, we have, have, we have multiple connections. It turns out we were connected, uh, through Justin Breen, who I met through strategic coach. And then somebody else mentioned your name and, and the day we connected, uh, later on that day, I, I found out that you were having a coaching session with good friends of mine, Dallas, and, and Doug from Saskatchewan. So it's really a small world and, uh, your name kept coming up. So this was, you know, became undeniable that we had to, we had to get you onto the show.

(03:27): Yeah. And I'm really hoping too, for your listeners, right. That we can actually, you know, give them, give them some nuggets. And, and, you know, my intent today, as I said earlier, is that, you know, I really could, hopefully that, you know, everybody who listens to this episode can walk away thinking differently, can walk away with a different mindset when it comes to, uh, to building teams, building their people and, and really, you know, growing, growing the organization and being like entirely prosperous. But again, it's having fun and harmony along the way. It hasn't been really until recently that people have really started to think more about teams and the culture and what it means. And especially, you know, we're dealing mainly in the contracting industry, which can be a little more hard nosed than some of the other stuff. Right. So getting to the point where you have business owners coming together and sitting down and saying, listen, I know I can't do this. I can't build the type of business I want, unless I put in a killer team, this trying to run all this is, is, uh, really wearing me out. I need to make a change. Where do you start with that?

(04:31): Well, I think, you know, one of the things that I find, uh, is, you know, I was always gonna, what, didn't that comment? I just wanna say something. I, cuz the fact is how things have changed. Right. I'm not trying to steer this differently, but yeah. Um, but the fact is one of the things that I, I, I heard over years was, you know, using you, whether using assessments or talking about people and those kind of things, right. They were, they were soft skills. And I think it was Simon cynic that said it best. They're not soft skills. They're people skills. And I think, and as a leader, right, dealing with people, number one, wherever there's people, there's people problems. And number two is when dealing with people and, and building teams, it, this is not easy work building a truly dynamic, fully functional, uh, team is hard work.

(05:17): And you gotta, you gotta put in the time and you gotta put in the effort. And so going back to your point, you know, Dave is, um, what you're saying is, is, you know, the, the start of that process is finding out what do we have, you know, what do we have to work with? And, um, and as you've seen and course on, on, uh, on video here, your, your Colby is on there. My Colby is on there, right? So, you know, we come back to the, the whole using Colby as a tool, um, is finding out who do we have on our team and what are we asking them to do? And, and I'm, I'll, I'll throw this on here just a little bit just to, so people can get an idea of this is that when you're looking at a, an applicant or somebody's gonna come in and work and you, and you, you know, you say, okay, well, here's, here's their experience and here's, uh, their, their skills and here's their background and here's their knowledge.

(06:05): And we check all, all these boxes and this is great. And so far is so good. And then we, you know, geez, well, they, they sure match our values. They seem to be outgoing. Um, you know, they're not an ax murder. They're, they're, they're a really good human being, right. And I always tell people do not only hire smart, nice people because you've checked off all the boxes you think, oh my God, I've got the, I've got the perfect hire. This is gonna be great. And about six to eight months later, you found out that you hired an Ogre and you can't for the life of you figure out why, like, why did this go sideways? Right. And, you know, everybody puts on their best behavior at the front end. And eventually when they, when they get into their groove, they are right. And they're not doing the things that they need to get done for you, or, or the expectations are off, right. This is where the starts go sideways. And he's like, well, I, I had the perfect hair. I can't figure this out. And, and that's part of what we're gonna talk about today. So going back to your original question is saying, Hey, you know, who do we have? And what do we have them actually doing?

(07:00): I mentioned in the intro, you were referred to sometimes as Mr. Colby, it might be helpful right now to walk everyone back to how you became a, uh, a business coach. And, uh, and then do a proper introduction of Colby. We've spoken about it on the, on the show a few times, but it's an important part of how you help teams to understand each other, communicate with each other. And Dwayne, and I say, it's, it's, it's really the formula for how you figure out how to elevate each other. Mm-hmm . So, uh, and, and then when you do that, all the other things that you talked about, the fun, the productivity, the profitability, those are all byproducts of having happy, focused, respected, elevated people. So let's hear your story and, and how cool we came into the mix and a brief overview on what it is. And, and then everybody will understand how to use it a little bit better.

(07:49): Careful. I can talk a lot there, Dave. Yeah. But no, by, you know, I spent, uh, I mean, I I've quite, I've quite a past, but I spent actually 30 years in medicine. And so at the end of the day, I did what was called my release. Um, and I've won multiple businesses and, and had different S along the way. But, um, as I was working with the, I was working with really complex chronic pain patients who they, I was, I was Mr. Last resort guy. And so that was kind of my world and in medicine for, for a lot of years. And it was my financial advisor many, many years ago who actually went to strategic coach. He says, you should do your Colby. And I said, my, what? He says, you're Colby. And I said, oh, I'll, I'll, I'll entertain the thought. And I did it. And what happened, my first result that I got, uh, was, was, came out transition. And at the time I couldn't understand. It's like, what do you mean transition? And I was all upset, whatnot. Um, and, um, and then looking back now, the knowing what I know I was in transition, so I was actually moving buildings physically. I was helping, I was building it myself. We just had a baby and my marriage was on the rocks. I was in transition. So that was my first sort of aspect of Colby. And I'm like, this is really weird because I got these people following me around, how does it know? And I did it, uh, so why's my life, calm down. I did it again. And, and I got my, I got my Colby result, which is 2, 4, 86. And it was probably, I mean, as Dan Sullivan would say too, and I totally agree.

(09:19): It was, um, it was probably one of the most liberating days of my life. And it really helped me make sense of why I do what I do. And it was just like a lot of pressure off why I struggled in school and, and all those things. It was like, this just makes so much sense to me. And that was, that was my, that just, it just clicked in. And that was, that was the beginning. That was sort of the pebble that started the avalanche. And so with that, I started actually working with, with my patients. Then I started working with, uh, with my team, um, and making sure they had proper role alignment there. And then I had clients of mine who own businesses. They're saying, Hey, since you're doing this, can you come actually start working for my organization? And, um, so sure. And started that, that actually was started the journey. And it just sort of rolled out from there to the point where I'm now actually no longer in, in really in medicine. But, um, this is all I do now is actually help, you know, coach build teams speak, um, and help, help businesses grow and help people elevate. I'm also doing, um, research on cognitive stress, which we'll talk about. It's a cognitive stress and chronic pain, uh, with a link between where people are up in a role that I call it, the golden handcuffs, where they're in a role and they're, and they're are stuck there. So I've got every second, Friday off, I've got my benefits, I've got this, I've got that. And I can't, they don't wanna leave. I believe that people will make of their conscious choice and they will leave their role. They'll leave their job consciously, or they'll make up a story or subconsciously that they will actually get sick and get out. So one way or another, they're gonna find a way out. And so finding the way out is actually sort of the research that I'm doing now. And then my case studies are showing that this is actually true. Um, so it's, it's quite, uh, it's been quite an interesting journey.

(11:03): You said something that I can relate to, which was when you did your assessment, the word you used for it was liberating. Mm-hmm , and it that's a freedom word, uh, for us. And, when I dug into who not how, and Dan freedom, talking about the four freedoms, it's freedom of time, freedom of relationship, freedom of purpose, and freedom of money. What we're talking about here is really freedom of relationship. That's what you're digging in with, with your teams. And you're gonna use those, that team environment to create other freedoms. But the very first person that you need to work on is yourself. And, and, uh, we've shared before here on the podcast that taking these assessments and learning what it means for you is liberating. It's that freedom of relationship with yourself, you unlock, it explains how you feel about certain things, how you may have perceived yourself about certain things, how you feel others judge you around certain things.

(12:00): And it helps you to realize also how you're doing those exact same things to others. Mm-hmm when you start to understand these. So if you're a business leader and you really want to figure out what makes a team mesh aside from the, you know, the great cultural things that you're already doing and being a good listener, and, and, you know, some of the things that have, we've been traditionally thought of going in and, and investigating what Colby is and how it applies to you, puts you in such an advantageous position for when you go and do a team assessment with us. So I'll turn it back to you. Now, those I'm just sharing. I had the same feelings, the same observations. I've seen it, unlock teammates and bring team my own team together, where we completely understand everybody it's magic and creates amazing results. So I'll let you walk us through exactly what, uh, how a professional would describe Colby and, and understanding what your cognitive ability, uh, is and where your cognitive energy should be directed.

(13:04): So I'll just, before I just jump into that, Dave, I just wanna say one quick thing you're saying about deliberation. I think, I think it's, I think it is like, it's, it's so important to understand this. And you know, when I, when I went to school, you know, I, I used to think I was stupid. I did, I was like, I can't, cause I can only, I can only read for so long and my brain just shuts off. And I got, you know, I, I didn't wanna finish what I started. And, and I got in trouble for talking too much and all these things that were all really, my strengths were really never, they never celebrated. Those are the things I've got into trouble for. And I, and I, and it happened in school and I believe it happens in business. I don't think there's any, really any separation. Um, you know, I've had, I've had C top CEOs really highly, highly successful CEOs at the age of 50. Say to me, you're the first person who told me what's right with me. Think about that for a second. Right. At that age, you're the first person told me what's right with me. Right. So what happened to their confidence and, and, and, um, and their self esteem overall those years, because it was always sort of thrown out as something that was a weakness, or it was something that you needed to, you know, needed to work on, you needed to improve on. Right. Um, but the messaging was never, ever on a, on a positive side,

(14:22): There are a lot of industries out there and, and society in general that values the work that is visible to the work that is not visible. And you're, um, we, we see this on the construction side of thing, you have fewer visionaries, lots more of the, uh, implementer type. And if you're not, if you're not implementing, if there, if you're not being out there seeing, doing the actual thing, if you're thinking about it, solving complex problems behind the scenes, or figuring out where the business is going to go, and you need both of those elements, but the action elements, the, uh, the visible elements are celebrated much, much more mm-hmm and appreciated much, much more. And then, then when you're told, when you're like, if you're not good at, at the actual construction, Right, It's almost like you have no place here, whereas you may, 90% of the business is project management. So if you can understand people, if you have a vision for where the company wants to go, how to get there, man, that's great. But you have to understand everybody on your team has to understand each other's strengths. And that's where you're gonna go here with this.

(15:30): Yeah. Yeah. And it's actually complete, um, completely strength based. So we all have three parts to our mind, every human being does. And so we have the cognitive part of your mind. So again, as I said, kind of earlier about the thing about the app, you know, think about the application or the resume, right? Your, your cognitive is, is your intelligence. Like, it's your IQ, it's your skills, your experience, it's your education system? What have I learned? And what can I regurgitate back? Right. It's knowledge. That piece of your mind is always changing over time. Or at least, at least we hope it is. Um, but you all, because you're always learning something new. We get, we, we, we can, so with your people, you can teach skills, you can hire their hands, right? You can, you can teach them things that they need to learn because that's changeable over time.

(16:15): Then there's the affect of part of your mind, which is the feeling side of us. So cognitive is thinking the affect is feeling. And the feeling side of us is our, it's our motivation. It's our values. It's our beliefs. It's our preferences. It's our emotions. That's actually where your personality lives is over in the affect of part of your mind. And that piece is always changing as well, because Lord knows our, our emotions change or our beliefs change or our values change. And so, again, looking back at the hiring piece there, it's like, oh geez, they, you know, they sure are outgoing and they sure they're sure are nice and right. But that's always gonna change cuz it's gonna be situational. And what we're looking at is the ative. So there all your listeners now who officially have their new Scrabble word, the conative aspect of the mind and the conative is your instincts.

(17:02): It's your drive. It's your mental energy, right? It's your problem solving strategy. And the research shows that this piece of your mind does not change. It stays a constant through life. It is not a learned behavior. And if any of the listeners, if you wanna think about this is if any of you have more than two, you know, two children or more watch your kids. And, and because it is not, it's not learned or it's not inherited. And you'll see your two kids do things completely differently. It's like why we're in the same house with the same beliefs. You have the same menu. We have everything else. Why do they do things so differently? Because they're taking action their way, they're problem solving their own way. And they will do it naturally. And when you start to pull out of that natural thing. So if you think about it is, you know, whenever you've, whenever you've second guessed yourself and we Lord knows, we all do it. Hey, Dave, I'm sure over time. You've second guessed yourself. And when you second guess yourself, what do you always say? I should have listened to myself. I should have trusted my gut Trusted my gut. Yeah.

(18:03): This is, this is your gut instincts. Don't lie. I should asked my wife and then yes, dear. There's the follow up? There's a follow up answer, but instincts don't lie. So instincts are, so they, it drives your behavior in school, right? How many kids get good marks for simplifying for generalizing? What happened when you didn't show your work? Dave? Right. And it's like the you must have been Cheating, cheating, or trying to create a shortcut or, or something. Yeah. Right. When did you ever get rewarded for that? Never. When do we get rewarded for that in business? Every single time, if you're able to create, uh, the right outcome with less time, you're sought after what you'll learn about yourself is, uh, the reason why you go and get a Colby, a assessment done. Yeah, absolutely. And, um, so you can go to the Colby website, which is colby.com and that's their website. And then in the show notes, whatever, we can get mine. So they wanna reach out to me. Then we can, we can take that approach as well, so sure. But I wanna, I wanna touch on something here, Dave, just for a second. Cuz we talked about it earlier and it was, has to do, and, and I was listening to your, um, she built this city podcast, which was just released recently. And I was, I was really mesmerized by it. I was like, I'm like finally, , we're, we're having these conversations where one of the things that we measure in the, in the Colby world or, or, um, uh, on instinct and it's called implementer and implementers, how we deal with space and tangibles. So some people, um, right.

(19:46): Basically, you know, we don't really wanna put a hammer in their hands or behind the scenes. They're great visionaries. They can go inside their head. They can conceptualize, they get the ideas and they don't need to see it to believe it. They can, they can be behind their desk and envision what is, what's gonna be, you know, the, what is the house gonna look like? What is the renovation gonna look like? What needs to get done and all the materials inside their head. They're not, they're not gonna be hands on the people at the other end of the spectrum. Remember I said to put mental energy. So it's how much time and energy you will spend there. The people who are longer and implementers, there's your builders. And I can tell you through tech, Canada, as an example of all the CEOs of that I've done so far, 6% are longer implementers.

(20:28): 6% of all the people, all the data I've gathered, right? Because they don't wanna be behind a desk. They don't want, they're. They want to be out on site seeing what needs to be built. They want to construct, they wanna be able to handle all the materials, the quality and all those things. But one thing I wanted to bring up Dave was going back to that podcast was they're trying to help women get into, into construction. And I said, so a woman, a female who growing up had, there was a long implementer. Would've been guarantee you would've been called a tomboy. Now in my world, tomboys don't exist. There's no such thing. It's a female who wants to build things. They, they, they figure out the world by baby touching and feeling and sorting and, and, and getting their hands on things. So they would, as growing up, they would've been out fixing their bike and digging in the dirt and playing football with the boys and, and out helping their dad work on the car, whatever else, because that's a natural energy that's already there and there just happen to be a female who's using it. So it has nothing to do with male or female. It has everything to do with how do you actually problem solve? And so you can take this, you can take a, a female and, and, you know, and put, 'em put 'em into the role on under cons on the construction site. Great. Cause now you just had the right person for the role. Right. Gender was irrelevant. Yeah. And I, and I really think that that is really important, um, especially in your industry, you know, and then, you know, talking about going back to the us model, right.

(21:58): Where, you know, we have the visionaries and the integrators and whatnot, the visionaries, a guy like you, who you know, is out there and, and dreaming and thinking big and way out and using, you know, your sense of time is in the future. Where, where can we go next and what that's gonna look like and right. And, and you bounce around all over the place trying to connect all the dots and you know, and you probably, you know, and you look like a squirrel, uh, with respect, with great respect. Right. And we have other people who are they're, you know, they're the integrators, right? So they're the ones. Okay. Let's make sure we get all the information. Let's make sure we get this documented. Let's make sure we have proper budget. Let's get this into the plan. Let's make sure that things are orderly and systematic. And we get every, we actually, we are actually gonna finish what we start. Instead of being all over the map, when you start meshing those two things together, right? There's your magic, there's your flying V right? This is how we actually create these dynamic teams because, and the people we're going to do it naturally, you can train their skills, right? You can train their heads, you can hire their hands, but until you actually have their heart, until you have that internal piece of them, you'll never have that whole person.

(23:06): Yeah. And that's when you can start to develop specialists within your team, Wanna level up, connect with us, to share your stories, ideas, challenges, and successes. The builder nuggets community is built on your experiences. It takes less than a minute to connect with us@buildernuggets.com, Facebook or Instagram, Want access to the resources that can take you and your team to the next level. One call could change everything We've done. You know, Duane and I, with our own leadership team have done the Colby team assessment. And it was amazing. It gave us when you have the insight into yourselves. So definitely recommend that everybody do it, find out what your Colby score is, learn everything you can about it. Then share it with your team, get them to do their individual assessments. Encourage them, make the investment for them to learn about themselves. And then you bring a team consultant, Colby team consultant in, and you really start to understand what everybody needs from each other. And what we mean by that is you begin to understand, Hey, I'm a low fact finder. I just want everything simplified. Like the quick facts bottom line for me yet, somebody else on my team has a high need for facts. So if I'm going to work with them on something, I let them go and get all the facts that they need.

(24:29): They then will say, here, I have all this facts, these facts, what do we do next? And it's how can you simplify them so that the rest of the team can use them. This is how we need to absorb them. Let's work on it together and get it down to what we need to make a proper decision. The reverse happens. If you're a visionary and you have all these ideas and you can totally picture what it looks like. Well, now you find yourself running around telling people what to do without enough description, because I'm a simp. I want to simplify things to some extent, but I complicate them in doing so. now I've given them all my vision and I've rapid fired it all out there and stick in a staccato way. And they're trying to write things down or figure it all out. And they come back with something. You, you run the risk, your team comes back with something and they're like, we didn't get it. Are you talking about this? It's not even close. People are off doing other things or they're telling somebody else. And the other group is saying, what is that? That's crazy. It doesn't work because they're the out. Now the sales rep for your vision. Mm-hmm and they don't understand it. So you dial the visionary back in and you say, all right, we need to understand this vision. How do you do it? And you mentioned EOS. Yeah. You're in an L 10 meeting where you're IDSing these things and becomes my job to clarify the vision, have check-ins with my team. Do you understand each piece? Have them regurgitate it, not regurgitate it back, but to, to say back what their vision of it is or their understanding of it is give them some input, let them weigh in.

(26:06): And then as a team, you say, yes, that's it. That's what we're gonna go build. That's my vision. That's your input. That's your bed mess or order of operations for what's gonna happen next. And you have somebody on the team that's documenting it. All the pieces are assigned to the right, to the right people and away you go, but now you're building the right thing or going in initiating the right, uh, the right project, the right you're going on the right mission. Now you're not gonna end up with a Pontiac AZ tech at the end of this. let me tell you, can I tell a couple quick stories, Dave, just sure. In line to that. Um, so this does happen just recently with a couple different companies, right? And so when we get people like, you know, like yourself and you get like, like me, who the, who are the visionaries, right? We, we, we problem solve and we communicate. This sounds funny, but we communicate by talking now we're all humans and understand this so long, the longer fact finders I said earlier, they want to communicate by documentation. That's, that's their need their need to document in order to make sure that they got the information across, we do it by talking. And this is sort of a little bit of a nugget for any of the people who the visionaries and, and we're out there and we're out in the future. And, and here's, here's the thing. And I'm, this goes back to what you said, David with the meeting is just because we say, we're gonna do it.

(27:26): Doesn't mean we're gonna do it. We think outside of our heads, that's why we talk a lot. So we think outside of our heads, and I'm sure you, if anybody's listening either they they're that themselves or they have, or they have a, a leader who does this, that's a very visionary and they talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. And what we're doing is we're ideating outside of our heads. And so then the team can turn back and go, well, there's no way we're gonna do all these things. This is crazy. And they get, and they, and basically then everybody gets sidetracked. Right. And what you said was really smart is that the team needs to repeat back. What did you hear? Right? Because I've, trust me, I've seen this many, many, many times where somebody's jumped in and took this course. And then after the fact went well, then, and the, the leader says, well, I wasn't planning on doing that.

(28:10): And they say, well, but you said, well, yes, I, I said it, I didn't mean it. I was just merely thinking it, but you, we think outside of our heads and this isn't, this is, this is instinct. This is so, you know, we're talking about building a team that when people do these things, they're not doing it to tick you off. It's not personal take personal out of it. Right. But they're problem solving their way. And that's why this is so important to understand is because when that, when, when the rest of the team checks back and they can say, okay, this is what I heard. And then you can actually sift through that. So now you're creating efficiencies. And this is when we create efficiencies, we create productivity, right? And we create profitability. The other story I wanted to tell you real quick is this happened two weeks ago where, so one of the things we talk about is quick start, which you and I are very long in. And the, this, this other, the gentleman was very short. And so he is, I called him the quick stops. Um, but they put, they pumped the brakes on everything, right? And he was the CEO. And he had this idea in his mind that a very successful CDE CEO was a visionary they're out there on stage. They're charismatic, they're idea generating. And this was his idea of what a successful CEO is. He was the complete opposite. And, when it comes to instinct, so what he thought, um, what he thought he needed to be and who he was, whether there was this dichotomy. Um, I, I, in my work, I, I say my, my I've tried to solve the problem of cultural dissonance and dissonance is when, basically two, two waves hit and they're clashing. Um, and so in, so internally in his own mind, the same thing was happening.

(29:44): It's dissonance, what I think and what I am are two different things. Right? And I'm, and I'm beating myself up. But what was interesting is that his organization, he was running it his way, but he was stopping everything. He was putting everything into a check stop. And he, then he was complaining that business. Wasn't that great. And so learning this information and what I'm helping him, what we did is we got him out of the way, right? And once we got him out of the way that business has launched, because it took all these other people who had all these ideas and, and, and go the go getters and we let them go, right? And now he makes sure that there's budget and that there's systems in place. And he does all the stuff behind the desk while he is letting his team go and fly and actually innovate his, the, the business has, has just absolutely just flipped, but he was getting in the way, but couldn't see it. This is something that's prevalent in our industry as well, is that the business owner is held onto everything for way too long. They have that gas, you know, there's a reason why the brake pedal is like three times as wide. Does the gas pedal, right? We all want to get out of our own way. You're not gonna understand how you're in your own way properly until you go through some of this and get some, get some of this, uh, insight that, uh, that Warren's sharing with us here right now, because the reality is, is there are many CEOs, or there are many leaders that have a hard time trusting their team to do it the way they want it done, but they haven't effectively communicated it, documented it, trained on it. When you make this switch in your head, that you're going to invest in your team to do the things that they are all great at.

(31:26): And you put those guidelines and rails in there. That's when you're going to get, and, and you use communication tools around that as well, to make sure that all the different ways that people receive or transmit information are being respected and understood, or at least recognize because there's times where too much is too much and not enough is not enough. And you need to be able to encourage people if, if they're going to survive as part of your team and contribute to make sure that they are communicating in a way that the team all, all gets it, but that's how you put, that's how you get people into the right seats. That's how you have an implementer coming to work and feeling like they are working on meaningful things. They have personal impact around that are moving the needle because the ops like the visionaries curse is that nobody understands my ideas.

(32:17): I talk too much. I, uh, I don't feel like I can get anything done. Am I delusional? And I feel like I'm spinning my wheels. The integrator's curse is that they're gonna come. And they're going to, they like checking a box. They like seeing small tasks being done, but their curse is that I'm gonna get here and I'm going to do all these things. And none of them are going to matter, and I'm not going to be valued or appreciated. And it's none of this work and all of my energy and everything is gonna go to waste. They take a great deal of satisfaction from these smaller accomplishments. And if they mean nothing, they're out and the visionary, they take all the satisfaction in their ideas. And if none of their ideas come to fruition, then you get really hard on yourself. And, and, um, that's not the place you wanna be either.

(33:11): So you got these two groups that when you bring them together and all the specialists in between, you got your bridge people that are your cool B five S mm-hmm across the board. It's really, really magic. And so we've seen it time and time again, with the, with the teams, we're coaching, you get people doing a job that they love. Being able to communicate with their teammates, getting new levels of respect. We talk a lot about elevating each other. If you wanna elevate somebody, put them in a position where they're going to be successful, that elevates you. What does, you know, our team? Everybody has each other's backs. I'm trying to figure out what does that person need if I'm in an L 10 meeting and I'm going off into the spinach on something that I shouldn't. Mike Peters will call me out and say, Dave, that's, we're, IDSing that down here. I already wrote it down. You could talk about all, all you want down in the sandbox, but right now we need to go to the next point and the whole team gets it.

(34:11): Mm-hmm . And so, um, you know, I'll talk just real briefly, Dave, about my, my metaphor, right? My metaphor is, is the flying be at work. And this is how I want people to think about this and sort of just, um, sort of summarize what you just said, you know, why, why do geese fly in the V formation? Right? Everyone creates an updraft one behind it. So geese can fly 70% faster and further flying in the V formation than if they fly alone. Um, and, and they also has a different elevation. So actually the lead goose actually is, is, is a little bit, is a little bit higher. And then they all go a little bit lower from one another and it creates this constant updraft. Right? So, but, but, but, and so the lead goose never stays the lead goose, right. If they do, it's called trying to be everything to everyone all the time, AKA burnout mm-hmm um, so there, the constant changes, everyone has a chance to elevate.

(35:05): Everyone has a chance right. To, to, to work, you know, to be in that position. Right. It's just, you know, when it goes back to, you know, strategic coach who is the who to your what, right. Um, and so those as, as we go into different projects or as we go into different, if it's gonna be in sales, or if it's gonna be end of budget, who is gonna be the lead goose, that's gonna take control of that and you know, who would've put there. Right. And so, uh, and the fact is that when those, when, when, when the geese, you know, fly is right, they can, everyone, every goose can see where they're going. And that's why they don't don't get lost. Right? It's not, it's not blind faith, right? Hope is not a strategy, so they can all see where they're going. And so it's like, once we have the vision out front, then they, and, and it gets clearly defined. Right. Then they all see where they're going. It's shared, It's shared,

(35:54): It's shared if you're creating a culture of leaders where, and you've got a company where, you know, nobody knows who the leader is, then you've done a really good job of it because you have leaders at every single location. And they're all valued for different things at, at different times. And we, I refer to them as the specialists too, but yeah, it's, it's the pinnacle of where you, uh, where you want to get to, and you can get so much more done. And in terms of, uh, scalability, profitability, happiness, we look at it, Dwayne and I are very, very big at telling stories around your team, because they're your magnet. They are really how you show your team, how you celebrate your team, what your team accomplishes, that's how you attract other great teammates. And we know in our industry right now, especially in the shortages around great project management, whoever wins that has got such a huge advantage, if the best of the best are coming to your team, because they want to be a part of that, they wanna be a part of your flying V they see value. They get, they, the vision is shared with them. They have, uh, weigh in and so much easier to get behind. So, yeah. Thanks for that. Thanks for that analogy. It's a good one. And it's, uh, it's easy to get behind.

(37:08): Yeah. And, um, yeah, just think about your people, like who doesn't wanna be rewarded for what they bring to the table. And as I said, like, you know, so when we look when we're using Colby and, and we're rewarding people, so for some, for one person, um, you say, you know what, I really appreciate the fact that you pulled all this data together, right? Like, I know I will, I will never do. I will never do that, please. It makes me wanna, you know, stick needles in my eyes. Do I have other people who will, who will do that for me? And they, I say, thank you. Like, I can't believe this is just fantastic. I'm talking right to that person. I'm rewarding that person I'm, I'm appreciating everything that they bring to the table their way, not my way until I understand myself first. I'll never understand others. Um, and the next, you know, the next person's that, you know, oh man, like the, the, the processes that you created, like, I could, I would never have dreamt that, oh my, like, thank you so much for doing that and reward them. And you will, you are talking right to that person's soul. Right. And there's retention, there's happiness. Right. And, but then, then there, there is truly the flying V and everybody everybody's, and as they rotate out, everyone is actually getting rewarded and you can actually see the progress for the organization.

(38:19): Yeah. And you develop trust and confidence within your team. Cuz what happens when you don't have that is you have a culture of vulnerability where people are afraid to speak up. Yes. And sometimes, you know, somebody is celebrated for saying, oh wow, you were really vulnerable. That took courage there to share that story. And that's unfortunate, like when, when we're working with the, the teams we're coaching, we wanna eradicate, you know, those words and that, and that feeling because where you want to get to with trust is a place where the people on your team are speaking up with that. They're going to be heard. It's no longer a weakness or a vulnerability that they're sharing that they're not that they don't know something or that they're not feeling good about something that's confidence and trust that you're willing to share it. It's no longer vulnerability.

(39:07): So that's a distinction when your team, like one of the things you'll be able to identify it internally with your own team is when is when that's happening. And we find when you have that, this is how you reduce mistakes. This is how you, uh, reduce costs on the job site, major, major things. Because when there's a tendency to, to cover up what you don't know, this, this is all those unknown risks are horrible in, in any business at any level. But when you create a culture where, you know, Shannon Waller would call it a, a culture of UN where uncertainty is, okay, mm-hmm, where your teammates are coming and saying, these are the things I don't know now, how do we solve them together? And you're, and you're putting the plan together versus only ever talking about the things that you do know.

(39:55): I call it the paradox of uncertainty, but, or the paradox of certainty. When you, when you talk about the things that you absolutely know, then you cannot be helped because people go against you ha would have to go against you too, to try and say well that I don't think that's right. But if you come at any problem, say, Hey, these are the things that we're pretty confident about. These are the things we don't know. What, what could we do about it? You watch how that, how that happens. You watch somebody do a presentation where they know everything. And at the end, there's no, there's no questions. There's no interaction. There's no engagement. But if you watch a person have a talk and they say, we think that this could be something extraordinary. And these are the signs here. These are the facts. These are the clues.

(40:41): And all the fact finders are loving eating. keeping that all up and we think it could be really big. And here's why in the visionaries are going, oh well, that's, that's cool. And so these are the signs that we think it'll work, but here are the things that we don't know. What do you think the amount of engagement you'll get around problem solving, because like you said, cognitive ability, people naturally have their own way to solve it. And why wouldn't you want it being solved from different angles that aren't your strength or your, you know, innately part of your cognitive wheelhouse. So really cool for you to teach us how to dive into, uh, to all of this. What's the best way for, uh, people to get ahold of you. Uh, give us your, uh, give us your website. Where should we go? Go to learn more Instinctive solutions.ca Great. There's my Website. And then you can find me, um, as well on LinkedIn. So Warren Barry on LinkedIn, Facebook, Warren Barry, and I got my, my, my instinctive solutions page there as well. Um, or, uh, email, um, more than happy to. soWarren@aninstinctivesolutions.ca love to have conversations, reach out, even if it's just questions or you wanna just talk yeah. Oh yeah.

(41:56): However I can, Warren does this, Warren does this. He has one on ones with, uh, with business owners or business leaders. Sh you share with him direction. You wanna go or maybe a little bit of your background and he can, uh, uh, point you in the right direction and figure out maybe some things that would be helpful for you to consider for you and your team. Dwayne would not be happy with me if I let you go here without asking you something that you're excited about, what's something that's upcoming for. You could be business, could be personal, but, uh, something that you're smiling about these days and looking forward to, I, I, I got, I got two. I got, uh, my, my first one, my daughter just came home from France. Um, she was gone for three years, so that is making me smile a lot. Congratulations. Um, and um, and the next thing is I got a big project coming up with a private school in, in, uh, Ontario, uh, in Ottawa. Um, so finally, after many, many years we're gonna get into education and we're gonna disrupt and we get to go through and basically help the teachers understand how the children problem solve, and then they get to problem solve their own way. And I think this is gonna be really a game changer. It is one of the pinnacles of my career so far, and that's gonna be happening very soon.

(43:11): Yeah, I know it's been a mission, uh, for you to help people figure out the way they were wired to actually think, and for individuals to be valued for their individual strengths and stop focusing so much on the, uh, weaknesses. Because if we all apply ourselves at our unique ability or at our effortless ability or wherever gives us the most joy, think of how much more productive we'll be, and then we'll be able to celebrate each other so much more. So we celebrate you right now, my friend, congratulations on those, uh, on those two things. And, uh, we'll, uh, we'll look forward to chatting again soon. Thanks for being the show. Thanks a lot, Dave. Appreciate it.

Hey, thanks for listening, Duane and I love hearing from you. Your stories are inspiring and your challenges can be overcome. Got a cool tip idea for a show problem that you haven't been able to solve, or maybe just struggling to figure out what you need next and where to get it. We can help hit us up @buildernuggets.com and start building freedom.

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