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Highlights from this episode include:

  • The surprising effect the current crisis is having on the mortgage industry (2:35)
  • Are you making this financially devastating mistake with your mortgage? (15:34)
  • This specific type of mortgage could make your retirement better than you ever dreamed (17:33)
  • The answer to whether or not you should pay off your mortgage (19:03)
  • Not understanding this critical point about leverage can leave you in desperate need of funds (23:30)
  • How to know if this is the right moment for you to invest in property (25:49)
  • The property secret HGTV doesn’t want you to know (28:51)
  • The #1 factor you should use to decide whether or not to purchase a home (29:30)
Read Full Transcript

Do you hate the thought of working past 55 or 60? Do you hate not being able to live the life you deserve today? Do you hate not knowing what your financial future looks like? It's time to stop doing what you hate, here's your host, Mr. Harold Green.

(00:20): Oh, hello. Hi everybody. This is Harold Green with bright tree financial group, and it is time to stop doing what you pay. I got an interesting show lined up for you guys today and I just started something new and if it's going to be part of our successful professional series, and basically what we're going to be doing is bringing you different professionals in different fields, people that are successful at what they do. And then also people who love what they do. And this is a twofold type of thing. Number one is to, to educate you the client that's listening in and also to educate potential clients and people that are out there listening in, but also to educate students, kids that are in high school, maybe that you know, are thinking about what they want to do, what their life. And this is a good thing too, because you get to hear information from professionals that are already in the field, along with learning about finances and a, and any other type of thing that I bring to you.

(01:25): Because a lot of times, you know, the only exposure that our students get is what they see on TV or what they read on the internet. And they're not really communicating with the professionals in that field. So without further delay, I bring to you today, mr. Matt Shan, Leann division, president of primary residential mortgage up in Wester, Ohio. So Matt, welcome to the show. Hey guys, how are you? Hey Harold. Hey, welcome man. Welcome. So today I'm going to be interviewing Matt in matzoh mortgage banker. And Matt's going to be talking to you guys about, you know, why he got into the field of mortgage banking and, and different things like that. But Matt, I want you to start off by just kind of giving us an update as to what's been going on in the mortgage industry over the last maybe three months or so with this whole COVID-19 thing. All right.

(02:24): For sure. Yeah, absolutely is as this market has, as this world has really been just in a status of change and, and new endeavors with this COVID with a pandemic and, and how our stock market has reacted to everything. The mortgage market is similarly has been Rocky over the last three, four months, really even taking it past those three months, starting around Thanksgiving of last year, really late, early fourth quarter of last year, we saw the mortgage, the interest rate environment start dropping interest rates were heading in a positive direction, at least for the consumer. And they kind of hit the basement right before this COVID pandemic popped up and has kind of changed the everything that's going on in our industry. And so what it did was it created a lot of confusion initially because we weren't sure the ripple effects of everything that's going to happen.

(03:23): One of the good things that happened was Fannie and Freddie this time, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the two GSEs that by most of the mortgages that are sold, instead of doing what they did in 2008, which was just say, Hey, everything's going to be fine. Don't worry. This is just a small blip on the screen. This is a, you know, this will pass. We'll be back to normal. Soon. They work you're really proactive. And what I mean by proactive is they started to alter requirements, even took away products for short period of time, just to make sure that people were safe. We were writing good loans. We weren't putting people in situations that we're going to become untenable for them if they'd lost their job. And so they started to really restrict loans in the short term, just to make sure that what was being sold during the beginning of the pandemic.

(04:07): We weren't sure what it was. The loans that were being sold were kind of a no brainer loans, things that were borderline were being basically shelved for a little bit. And so as an industry, that's a really great leader. I believe a leadership role that they put into this and got us to, you know, a safe place, the salesman. And to me, you know, sometimes get frustrated because you want to close loans and we did, but we had to kind of change on the fly. A lot of things we were able to do not then not able to do or having extra regulation around things like verifying employment and verifying income because people were getting furloughed or taking apart time or sometimes even laid off. So it's, it's definitely been a disruption to my industry, but rates have stayed low. We've stayed very productive. It's just one of those things that really was unforeseen in our, the economy in our country. But our marketplace really, I think did a pretty good job avoiding a major disaster,

(05:09): Right? So they basically wanted to bring safety this time around versus letting things get out of hand, like last time in 2008. And I think you and I both can say, there's a big difference between what happened last time and what's happening this time. Would you agree?

(05:26): Oh yeah. And we're still pretty much in the middle of it. I mean, I'm not going to play economist or doctor. I don't think we're out of the completely in the clear, I think at this last, I'd say 30 days, we've really seen a lot of things open up and we haven't seen any kind of outbreak yet. So assuming that we take the nice slow steps of reopening, well, you don't have any kind of, you know, relapse we'll call it. I think what they did in a way better. I mean, we're talking about right now, we have over 20% unemployment and foreclosure rates haven't really moved yet. Right? Last time we had foreclosure rates in the double digits and boy does that affect values of homes. And that affects the economy as a whole. So that may end up happening in a little smaller bit and quarter three, quarter four with, we'll see when these furloughed employees come back and how many of them get to come back. But I think as far as I'm lending or regulation, they really tightened things up, which is a really smart move when things got a little bit tedious,

(06:32): Right. They definitely, definitely wanted to, to protect people. And so I'm going to get into something a little later on in the show about, you know, what people can do to protect themselves and to protect the equity and their home. Because I think that's going to be a very big issue going down the road. But before I get into some of that stuff, Matt, I want you to talk about your educational background and then how you actually got into the business that you're in right now.

(07:01): Yeah. So as far as educational background, you know, high school graduate, of course, what the college, I went to a school in Virginia Liberty university, which is actually an evangelical Christian university. So I was not fit to be a pastor, never was going to be one, but all my roommates ended up being them. I was the only guy that got a finance degree and always loved you know, finance even in high school, took classes in finance and accounting and really enjoyed it. My father had been a financial advisor before, you know, mortgage company for 30 years. I kind of grew up around the industry. You've got uncles that do it. I was just always been interested in finances. And I happened to graduate college in 2008, which if you can remember back then was about the worst year. You could ever try to graduate college with a finance degree.

(07:49): It was right that you're getting the upcoming recession. And so my options were pretty limited. Luckily my dad had a mortgage company and it was not the plan for me to work there. He's my plan. But when I graduated, I kind of looked around and I thought I'm going to go to grad school, but I was kind of at that stage, just over it it's for her. I didn't really want to go get my MBA, maybe come back later. But at that stage, Joseph's burnt out with school. And so I moved home and started working for my father full time. And, you know, he did not give me any kind of a throne to come home to. I was answering phones. I was making copies. I was learning the business from the inside out of the bottom up. You know, my, my first six months was still with insurance calls and VOE calls and no answering the phone. I was nowhere near a sales opportunity for a long time.

(08:44): Right. So you had to hustle and learn it from the ground up.

(08:46): Yeah. Well, the big thing for my dad was I think he wanted to test me. He was like, you're not getting a free ride. Yup. And so if you're going to come in here and just be like the boss's kid, you're going to wash out because I'm never going to give you anything important. Well, over time I think I gained his trust and started talking and started. The big thing was he let me travel. And that's, you know, where I met you there at these conferences. My dad would speak at, you know, it started with me just going and, you know, setting up the table. And then over the years he would start, you know, Hey, you know what, here's 10 minutes go. You get to talk these 10 minutes or the hour. And now we're at the point really where I, I speak predominant amount of time.

(09:23): And remember my dad's in his mid sixties. And of course, so our president with me, but he has allowed me to really take the reigns as far as the marketing of the company and speaking. And I'm really, you know, of course, forever grateful for that opportunity. But yeah, you know, I was, I was lucky in one sense to have in, in for a job. But once I got that job, but wasn't, I was not given anything fun for a long, long time to grind out about a year to 16 months before I'd even, he'd even let me take my licensing exam because he just didn't want to waste money on somebody that was just gonna leave. As soon as a job came in right now, I look at it. It's the only profession I ever want to work in. I feel lucky that I've gotten to know, you know, people like Harold and financial advisors all over the country.

(10:12): I've had, I have friends in almost every state. It seems like, and it's been a really a a blessing to have this company, for sure. Right. So I have this, I have the sprays mat. You can't shine until you grind. Yeah. You know, and, and, and for the young people out there, you know, you gotta put in the hard work, the blood, the sweat, the tears, you gotta hustle. And then eventually everything is going to turn in and go your way. But you definitely, you definitely have to put in the work. So Matt degree in finance, let's talk a little bit about the different types of loans that are out there. You got the 10 year loan, the 15 year loan, you got the 30 year loan, the 20 year loan, you got the adjustable rate mortgages. You got the, the one your arm, the three year arm, the seven year arm, the 10 year arm.

(11:03): You know, a lot of people are confused when it comes time to, to take out a mortgage. And one of the things that I love about my clients that are out there for the most part in anytime they want to take on a new loan or, or take on a new asset, they always give me a call and say, Harold, what do you think? They send me over copies of the loan agreements. And I get to read through all these different things and to help protect them, Matt, Matt. So if you could give people a word of advice in regards to what they should be looking for in regards to taking out a loan, just have at it. Yeah. You know, a lot of times I'll harken lending. The environment of lending sometimes turned it, it turns into almost like car buying. All right. You know, one of the things that I do with my company and my loan officers is the word knows is very powerful.

(11:53): Yup. And not the clients thing that us actually us telling the client. No. And because a lot of times what people do, the average American family refinances, or buys a home every seven to eight years on average. And I would say probably half of them didn't need to do it. Well, why don't you say that again, Matt, that's a very important thing. You just said, say that one more time because I don't, I don't know if people call it the gravity of what you just said one more time. Well, the average American family is going to refinance or purchase a home every seven, eight years, seven, eight years. That's just the average. And so I would say about half, I mean, my, in, in my opinion, about half of them probably didn't need to do it. It wasn't a need based thing. A lot of them either did it because they were bored.

(12:38): I'll get it because they got sold. Meaning I called them out of the blue and said, Hey, I'll do this and that. And this and that skip a month payment. And we could do, you know, and really when you play out the costings of loan, it didn't make, it's more of a sideways move. And some people just, it's kind of like people who don't need to buy a car, but they go to a car dealership. And even though it doesn't make sense, they can make the payments. So they do it. And we see a lot of people who just like to be the part of the excitement of refinancing. You know, I've heard Rachel Lowe, should I do something? And I'll look at somebody with like a 3.7, five rate are 3.8, seven five rate. And it's like, you know, do all this paperwork to have this cost to go to three and a half percent.

(13:20): Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I know it's I know that's a, you be okay with a little bit higher rate, but when you add in the cost, when you added maybe, Hey, they're in their mid fifties are ready to downsize when their kids go to school or, or whatever, you know, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. So a lot of times the power of no, for my loan officers that I want to, I always tell them as to say, if you want to be the, that advisors, strategic partner, it isn't about every loan. It's about the relationship. And so being honest, being saying, Hey, you know what if after you run the figures, I don't know if they'd save enough. Here's what we found. You know, of course, if they want to do it, you know, you can't stop them.

(14:02): But a lot of times we'll say, Hey, you know what? I don't, no, if there's a great value for this, I know you want to do something. You may be better served to wait a year or two being able to say that's really important because a lot of times people get sold. Bye. And I don't want to name names, but there's some big companies out there that are pretty aggressive in how they do so, loans, loans on just, you know, dropping your rate at eight, but skipping two mortgage payments and through the closing. And, and that's really an ancillary benefit of a refinance. To me, it's like telling somebody that should go have surgery because they get a vacation day, right. That doesn't make, don't have unneeded surgery just cause you don't want to work that week. Like there's a lot of pain and recovery and scar tissue that builds up like closing costs, but you don't need, unless you need to do it.

(14:54): Now, somebody needs to do a thing to consolidate debt. We'll work with Harold. We're paying for trying to figure out college or retirement. I'm all for it. Of course I'm a salesman. But when somebody comes to us and heroin, he knows it. I've talked to him and said a couple of times, so many things that are like, you know, they're working with this mortgage bank. I can beat that rate. But even if I did it still doesn't make sense for them. You need to tell him this, hold off completely. And that's really more people need to hear that. And so these are big loans or 30 year loans or 25 year loans and 20 year loans, sometimes 15 year olds. These are not things to be done lightly. And I think people sometimes get sold on the wrong value proposition. We'll call it.

(15:35): Right. And you've worked with my clients here in Hawaii. And what is about the average loan size you've seen, it's been a wrong what? Six, seven, $800,000.

(15:43): Yeah. Yeah. In that range completely

(15:45): That's these are some big numbers people, and anytime you're refinancing loans of that magnitude or purchasing of that magnitude, you definitely want to sit down and make sure that you don't end up in this situation where you house rich and then your, your income poor. And because of that, Matt talked to people about the reverse mortgage and what that whole crazy thing is all about.

(16:09): Yeah. You know, reverse mortgage has been around a long time. I would say in the lending world, reverse mortgages are about as misunderstood as like modified endowment, you know, cash value, life insurances, right. Bunch of planning world, because it is different. It is set up, you know, different than other things. It does have some fees to it, but what a reverse mortgage really does, it solves a lot of problems for people who are underfunded in their retirement, meaning, you know, what their pension took a hit or, you know, maybe they had to retire early because of an injury or something unforeseen. And now they're struggling to, to have the money to make it to the finish line. But in Hawaii, a lot of people are blessed with a great amount of home equity because values live on a beautiful Island and it's very desirable.

(16:55): And so values are always going to be high. And so we look at a reverse mortgages as a case by case basis for families, because it really is a meeting of needs and not meeting of a lack of a sale. And we really want to make sure that we are placing people in the proper loans so that they can either extended retirement, protect other assets, or just be set up to that. They don't have to retire out of place. They can retire in place. So, you know, the reverse mortgage for me, it's a passion. I actually spent a lot of time training other loan officers on it because I do feel like we, as an industry should be very good at the product, meaning we should know who should get one and we should know who shouldn't get one very, so it's very per case basis, but it's a product that I have a great, great passion for, right.

Because we have used it for people in $2 million houses and $40,000 houses. And the benefit for both has been just as important. Yeah. I know you did one for one of my clients, I'll be about two or three years ago and it's probably been one of the best things, you know, for them because their situation, it was very complicated. And so if it perfectly for them, but I'm just not going to recommend it for everybody that's sitting out there. And the next thing that I want to kind of get into is this train of thought of, you know, people who say, I hate debt. I don't want a mortgage. I want it all gone. I want it gone before I retired, because that's what I was told to do. And as you know, I built my own retirement planning system called rapid retire. That basically helps people retire seven to 10 years sooner than they, than they otherwise would just based on how we do things.

(18:34): And one of the biggest things we have in there is we, you know, we talk about creating income. We talk about income that can serve as debt versus completely paying off debt. And so if you can kind of talk to the two trains of thought out there of, you know, I should have my house completely paid off before I retire, or, you know what, I don't care about my house being paid off because I have so much money coming in that it's not going to hurt me. And as a matter of fact, I have more coming in, that's going to last me longer because I took that extra money and then invested it in the market versus threw it in my house. So can you kind of talk to those two individuals out there? Oh wow. This is such a big topic. And I really want to be able to explain this in a way that doesn't come off as a sale or anything, but really as a, as a hard position, right.

(19:21): I would go back to my college professor, my senior year in our global global economics class. And he was really kind of an odd guy and he was awesome, but he would always make us at the top of every paper, right? Two phrases. I love leverage and I love liquidity. And his basic thing was, I want to drill in those two phrases in your mind. And it worked cause it, 15 years later, I'm still talking about it. Yup. His hypothesis was most businesses. And we can even transfer that into people are under leveraged and under liquid under, I want to say liquified, they have under, they have less than sufficient liquidity and they're under leveraged, meaning they don't have cash on the sideline in case something happens. You know, quiddity when the heater goes out, when the roof has a leak, when something like that happens, what do they do?

(20:09): Their savings account is chase capital one and American express. So they don't have the liquidity to handle those needs because the other issue is they have is they're under leveraged. And what that means is yes, they have a 401k that's funded and that's awesome. I'm not against 401ks, but if all your money is there, they're not diversified. And they're trying to pay their house down. Yep. You're paying money to prepay something that the value of it is controlled completely by your neighbors. That's right. That's a really responsible thing. What I mean by that? Is this your value of your house? I know we watch HGTV and we taught you see those two tall twin guys come and rip out walls and put a new kitchens in, or, you know, you've got your chip and Joe stuff and everything looks like a farmhouse. Now everybody's loves this stuff.

(20:58): Right. But in the real world, real world evaluation, that stuff doesn't have a carry, the value you put into it. We have people all the time, timestamp put a hundred thousand dollars in my kitchen. That's right in my living room. And, and the value only gave me $20,000 on my appraisal. That's right. And so that stuff doesn't have as big of a value as you think, what has the biggest value is and what we're going to see? I think in the next few months, two years, my next door neighbor got laid off. And instead of foreclosing, he sold his house. Now his house really is worth 800,000, but because he wants to get out, he sold it for seven 20, just cause he wanted to find the F he wanted to be aggressive and have a low price because he needed that money to stay alive.

(21:41): Right. That's going to directly impact your value of your home. And, and so why we feel like paying your home off early, you're paying extra down on your house. Is it risky? Or what I'll say is it's a less efficient use of your money, right? I'm not here to tell you if you do that, you're wrong. Or if you do that, you're going to screw something up, right. What it is is you're under leveraged. So what would happen is I've actually had, this is a real life story. We had a dear friend of ours who goes to our church and he was, he ascribed to, to one of the talking heads, you know, financial advisors. That's like, you know, on the radio all the time. And it's like pay everything off number, you know, eat rice and beans until you're debt free. And then you can whatever.

(22:25): And so him and his wife were really strict on it and, you know, commend them. That's great. And so he's in a 15 year mortgage, he was paying extra on it. Even after that, you know, just everything and what happened. He had about $9,000 left on his mortgage. He got laid off. Wow. And his wife was a homemaker. Wow. And so what happened in that situation? She actually came to us and he's a great guy. And he's like, Hey, not for nothing. I just, you know, I got laid off, but at the same, you know, company for 20 something years, and I only owe like eight or $9,000 zero, and I can just like, get a line of credit or something for 30 grand just to, you know, get me through, I got a little severance package, but it may take me a while to get into the job because you know, it was a C level per employee at a company.

(23:10): Right. You don't just go indeed and get a, you know executive vice president job in two weeks. It takes a little those people to get placed. And, and the sad thing was of course, cause he didn't have any income and no job prospects that couldn't do a loan for them. So that's just a great picture of being under leveraged because yeah, he had a $300,000 house in Ohio. That's a nice house. And he only owed, he had 94% equity position in his house, but he had no access to it because he had no leverage. No. And so while he had this almost paid off house, he could see the finish line,

(23:46): Something bad happened, unforeseen happened. And now that threw him into it, he had to get credit cards to pay for stuff until you get to know him and you know what, Matt, even if he would have pay the house off, he would have been in the same boat, you know, helped them anyway, you don't have a mortgage payment, but yet you don't have any money sitting on the side. You know? And so that's my thing. I think it's very important for people to understand that when they start taking out these loans or when they start listening to people on the radio, on the TV, on the internet, I did a show. Don't take advice from the internet. Like you have to be careful who you talk to and if you're not, you know, basing your loans on your long term financial plan and you're not creating the proper amount of leverage or liquidity, which in the rapid retire program, we have something called the four eight cash reserves, adequate accessible after tax, always there.

(24:30): And if you want to know more about rapid retire, please go to my website, retire now, retire wild.com, download the game changer forum, download rep retire brochure. And then I'll be in touch with you guys. But you know, putting all of this money into places where I think you were saying earlier, Matt, you know, you're putting money in places where the value is controlled by what your neighbors do for me, that's a very uncomfortable position. I'll tell you what I did for myself. I think we bought our place at five 15 and it went up to almost $800,000. And when I did, I got the biggest line of credit that I could, and I took the monies out and I put it in my life insurance policy. And I did that so that if the values ever started to go backwards, I had access to the money, you know, to, to pay the mortgage if anything were to happen.

(25:16): And I think back in 2008, people had all this equity in their homes and then, you know, the market just went backwards on them. And so some of them went from a positive position to a negative position. And so you really got to understand what you are getting yourself into when you get into these types of loans. So, Matt, I definitely appreciate you talking about that. Cause that was a big one. So in wrapping up in regards to buying a home or buying a condo or buying an investment property, you know, is now a good time or should people kind of like sit on their cash a little bit and look for other things versus property. So I moved to think about that. So, you know, it really depends because you're talking about a couple of different types of people. Like if you're looking to buy a house and you just got married and, or maybe you just get, get into your career and you're looking for that first house and you find something you love and it's in your price range, I see you go get it at that.

(26:07): That's something that I really wouldn't. I don't think the market's going to shift that much where it's like, Oh my goodness, we're going to have 40% drops in value. And if you buy in June, instead of December, you really made a mistake. I don't see that. What I do think is there is going to be on the investor side of things. I think you're going to see some opportunity in the purchase of the investment properties, those one to four unit properties, condos, things of that nature. Because I feel like the people who may be overly diversified

(26:45): Real estate in the short term, if they can't, if they're losing either renters or they're just over leveraged other places, they can sell so real estate and help them fund other areas of their business. We're seeing a lot of our guys that I work with that are real estate investors. They're kind of getting in that mode of like, I gotta get back out there and really be cash positive because I think to properties may pop up that you can take down quickly at good value. Premiums were really in the last five years, it was pretty tough to buy a house at a good value premium with everything, just kind of soaring up and up. You're buying at the height of the market always. And so I think in the investment side of things, I think opportunity is going to show up here, not right away.

(27:30): I think the ripple effect of the forbearance stuff and some of these economic things that we've done, like these bailouts, these furloughs people not coming back on a point of being high. I think there's an opportunity there where some homes are going to go up for auction, not in a big way back then, but there's gonna be some opportunities. I always caution people who are primary home buyers that like Del meat. I like to look at the Sheriff's sale or I look to look at this. A lot of times those sales have to be really cash heavy. And also it's kind of like going to the auto auction it's as is, you don't know if that house like you don't get to look at it. You don't know if there's a basement. It's like you go buy a car because it gets, it rolls past you at an auto auction.

(28:14): You don't know if they pulled that out of the Lake two weeks ago. Right? And so you gotta be buyer beware really big there. And an investor is knowing, you know, understands how houses are built a little bit better. Maybe even can do the work themselves, or has really great teams to help, you know, rehab properties. You know, I know we love the HGTV. I watch all the time. I'm not bagging on it. And they'll post program. That's like, I bought this house for 12 cents and I put 15 cents in it and now it's worth $10. And it's like that those people are professionals, right? They're obviously very good at their job. They're on TV 90% of time. That's not you mr. Ray homeowner. So the Pat, you know, it's, it's really it strike out home run. Sometimes it's never middle of the road. You can really hit a home run if you get lucky, but you could also have the money pit, the destroys you find out that electrical's bad and plumbing's bad foundation bad.

(29:09): And that's $75,000 before you even knock on a wall or panic cabinet. And so I would say if you're looking to buy a home, honestly, what you need to do before anything is in my advice is figure out in your budget, talk to your planner like heroin. Don't look at loan amounts, look at monthly payments. What comes out of your bank every month? What can you tolerate where you're still saving. He's still got a couple pennies to go out, to eat and do the fun things that's in your budget comfortably. If that number is $1,800, or if that number is $2,500, then we start building out what kind of loan you can get for that. If you start looking at, I want to buy a $450,000 house, you start making concessions in your budget to make it so that you can do that. Well go out to eat.

(29:59): Well, maybe I'll, I'll give you give less to my retirement. And you know, but in a couple of years I'll get a raise. So I'll even it out. If you fall in love with a property, I say, fall in love with the budget first phone payment and find something that is in that line. You're going to feel a lot better. And I know a lot of younger people, you know, it used to be, you bought a starter home about a second home. Maybe you built your third home and then you sold it and downsize. And it seems to be the generation millennials. And even past millennials, they kind of want to skip that starter home step a lot of times, right?

(30:38): They want they're both, both of them are working and the budget's a little higher and they've got pain tastes. And well, just like you said earlier, heroin, don't blow things up. Don't don't be house poor, right? Or house rich and, and budget poor, whatever the term is, make sure that the payment is what you fall in love with and then find a house that fits that payment. Not the other way around, because the other way around a lot of times ends up with people just over buying and then that stress and Amy, how many times do you sense arrow? A lot, especially in the marriage stress in every area because, and bills are expensive, bills are high and it's a stressful thing.

(31:21): Well, Matt, it sounds like you love what you do. You don't hate it. And tell me why you love. And you know, my whole show is about stop doing what you hate and you know, do what you love. Tell me why you love what you do.

(31:35): You know, the corny canned answer is, you know, you get to help people, help families. It is true. The other answer that's really great about it is, is I get a chance to earn a decent living. You know, I'm not a millionaire or I don't, I don't drive fancy cars or do crazy things, but this job affords me a lifestyle that is allows my family and my kids, my wife and I like gets to stay at home. Those things are important. I mean, those things may not be important to you. You may not be somebody who wants to marry anybody, but when I look at why I love, what I do is I do get to help people everyday, right. Solve problems, or I get to help people buy houses. And that's a really great feeling. But my biggest thing is I, and I work a little bit differently than most guys in the mortgage industry with all my licenses and the fact that I'm sitting outside of Cleveland, Ohio, and I'm talking to Harold and in Honolulu is that I get to meet people.

(32:27): I get to have friendships with guys like you, Harold, and get to hear about you're here, your kids and where they're going to college and their careers. And, you know, I have friends that, you know, I'm always checking out on their kids' sports and you know, yeah, they're referral partners, you know, if you want to call them that, but really it transcends that over time because we together get to help solve problems for families. And when you connect and you get to find a relationship with somebody like that and advisors like that, I get to work with, it's exciting to go to work, because I know that, you know, the 50 or 60 families that you work with a year or any given time, we're doing some really great things. And I get to dive bomb into all those different areas throughout the country and help advisors.

(33:11): That's so great. And you know, I like to get up and do something, go to work every day. And this is a job that really afforded me that, you know, I feel lucky through this pandemic that we didn't have any job interruptions. We worked hard through it and got everything kept working and, or is able to, to not have any disruptions there except for kind of working from home for a little while. But just having a heart of appreciation is what I have for this industry and for my job, because, you know, I really would not want to be doing anything else. I wouldn't even want to do it. Harold dos. I actually feel like I'm specifically built to work with Harold, not be here. And I feel great about that.

(33:50): Well, it's a team effort, Matt, and I'm glad to have you as part of my team and what I'd like for the people out there to understand is that teamwork makes the dream work. I know that's a corny thing. Everybody says teamwork does propel the dream. You know, when we're sitting here putting together the financial plan, Matt stone, the mortgage, as if we're pulling monies out of the house to help pay for college, the students have their part to play. You know, every and the parents have their parts to play. We're all a team. And we, and we're all in this together. And I don't think anybody out there, you know, has to go at it alone. But if you're a student out there and you're thinking about different careers, you know, I'm a financial planner, financial advisor, fiduciary advisor, you know, I produce this podcast show every single week.

(34:29): And you know, I really enjoy what I do. And my path has allowed me to, you know, meet up with Matt. I know his dad, I know his mom. I know his sisters. I know as uncle, you know, we've gotten together, we've had dinner, we we've traveled. We played golf in Mexico right now. Yet you played golf in Mexico. And so these are great careers, but you have to, you have to, you have to grind. So you can't shine until you grind. I know I just talked about some of the shine of it, Mac too, but there's work that you have to put into itself with all that being said, Matt, I want to thank you very much for joining me today in the successful professional series, do what you love and not what you hate. And so thank you very much for joining the show. And if anybody out there has questions, they can get in contact with me through the website. And if you want to talk to Matt about a mortgage, get in contact with me and I'll, I'll forward you Madison information. And you know, he'll take a look at things for you and see how he can help you out and mass license. And pretty much all 50 States with the exception of what Alaska or somewhere like that or New York state is the only one day that I don't blame you.

(35:44): I'm not licensed in New York either. It's a very tough state, but thanks Madigan for joining us. And again until next time, everybody, one, two, three less, get it.

(35:58): This is ThePodcastFactory.com.

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