0:10 Hey guys, welcome back. You're listening to the second part of last week's episode. Let's jump back in. But I want to go back to like, the decision to you're saying like, you're in bed, you're essentially drinking yourself to death. Yeah. I mean, I'd wake up, it'd be whiskey shots, bong rips, until it passed out, basically,yeah. And that, like, ironically, right? I think in our cultural perception of like, what that experience would be like, That makes more sense than the decision to be, like, I'm giving a talk. So I'm curious, like, where do you think the turnaround moment? Why? Why do you think that you made that turnaround moment when I think a lot of people wouldn't have Right? Like, I think a lot of people that trajectory would be their trajectory, and maybe they, they come back out, right? But you, you, you really want, it seems like you really wanted to build something with it, which is sort of a it's different than just surviving it, right? So, like, do you, do you attribute that to, like, your life before? Do you attribute that to something in your upbringing, like, where do you think that comes from? I
1:22 don't know if I fully know, because I people ask me, like, how do you do it? And I'm I don't know, honestly, but here I am. But I think who you are before a traumatic event does matter. And I had great parents growing up. I played. I was a college basketball player, so work ethic and doing hard things was very much a part of my upbringing. My wife, Courtney, she Yeah, she was amazing, and she loved helping people. She was a nurse, and I just knew, like, Courtney wouldn't be doing this. I mean, she dad, she'd be devastated, obviously, like me, but she would help people. My brother race, he was a state championship wrestler, and, I mean, that guy never would give up on anything. And so I know race wouldn't be doing this, right? And then my son blew my son, blue, survived the car accident, and he was probably the number one thing, number one reason why I couldn't do I mean, I can't be a bad dad to blue. I mean, blue just lost his mom, his older brother, younger sister, his uncle, his nephew. He can't have a drunk dad that just wants to die. So for blue, I knew I had to make some changes. And then also I think it's important. And like I I still struggle with alcohol, and I still smoke weed. And I don't know if I'm out of necessarily, out of that phase into this phase of being this guy. I I have bad days and weeks, and I do think if everyone saw my day to day life, I don't think I have as many followers as I do, they'd be like this. I follow this guy. I think that's true of most people. I'm listening to this guy, it's 11 o'clock, he's still in bed crying. I do think that, but my son do. It was, it was blue. My love for him, and I had such a good dad growing up. And I think one of the goals of any dad is to be a better dad than your dad, and that's a tough task for me. I have a really good dad, and I knew what I was doing was not good. So yeah, I tried a lot harder because of blue and and now because of that, I fall in love again with Sammy, a different girl, and that's been great for blue, and that's helped us a lot. But yeah, I'd say that would be my answer. Is it was blue my son, bless the wife I had, and my brother and my dad's example, I think, was a collection of all those things. I mean,
3:51 you really, you think about, you know, like time travel movies, where they go back and they change one thing, and it changes everything, where it's like the decision to do what you're doing now, rather than kind of just continue on the path you're on in terms of your son's life, right? It's such a massive shift in terms of what he has to remember and think about and look up to. I mean, it's just such a monumental thing, like, that's the thing, ironically too, you're saying, like, if people saw your everyday life, you probably have less Instagram followers. Ironically, I think the reason that it's I don't know about the people that talk to you on the podcast, right? I can only talk about my experience with you, which is this long, right? But you're the reason I wanted to have you on the show, and the reason I wanted to talk to you is specifically because you seem like a regular person, right? Like, if you had gotten up on stage, and you were like, yes, you know, I had this terrible thing, and now I love all people, and I give grain to the needy. And, you know, I mean, it's like, okay, okay, you know, I get it, but it's not you can't relate to that right to people who really put on that. I don't want to. Called a front necessarily, I'm not judging anybody, but it's like, I personally can't relate to that, right? But you're like, so honest about the actual lived experience of what you go through that I think people actually can take a lot more from that, right? So, you know, I'm not saying you have to put up a webcam like a 24/7 live stream. You know. You know
5:21 one of the gifts that you get from grief is that person, I used to care what people think Dawn i and it's not, it's just you don't. You don't have the time or energy like you just, I can't. I mean, I barely have enough time and energy dealing with the old, my own voices in my own head, like I don't have time and energy to deal with anyone else's anymore. And I think that has really helped me relate to other people is but I think that, I think that's just a common thing everyone going through grief has is just this shift to like, what truly matters isn't there anymore, and so then all the bullshit is just completely bullshit. Now, like, you just, like, who cares about the stocks and Donald Trump's ear or whatever? Oh my god. Like, I don't know what's going on, so it just totally outside of the context of your grief and everything. Like you're set the supermarket right or whatever, random small talk with strangers. Do you find that you interact with people differently now, where it's just like, you're like, I don't really have time to I'm sorry You look terrible in that dress, and, you know, or whatever, like, do you find that it's kind of changed the way that you just see those, like, typical interactions?
6:37 Yeah, and it's very, uh, like I was saying earlier, with with grief, it's very, there's nothing linear, like, it's up, down, left, right? So sometimes I'll be interacting with people, and I'll be so sympathetic, like, oh my like, even if there was their dog, like, my dog died, I'm like, oh my god, your dog died. Like, really, just feeling it for him, right? If you catch me on a different day, different hour? I'm like, You're fucking dog time. Like, what? Like, so angry and that, I think that's, yeah, I it has changed, but it's very polarizing and different. But I've caught myself like, dude, like you need to chill out. Like, don't need to be so mad at these people. And then other times I'm just overly sympathetic. So I think, yeah, I think it's just kind of what emotion I'm experiencing in that moment. And I also try to, I don't put myself in a whole lot of public settings where that stuff happens, just because it is frustrating, and I don't know how I react sometimes, but I'm getting better at that. I'm getting back into the real world. But yeah, man, those conversations are funny now. They can be hard. They can be hard on the best day where you're just like the weather or whatever it is, you know what I mean, like whatever people say to kind of fill this I remember, I remember that my son's soccer practice, and I heard other parents complaining about traffic, and I'm just like, Oh my God. Like, I can't and they're like, looking at me, like, why don't you jump in the conversation? Like, energy to talk about traffic? Like,
8:17 yeah, it sucks, I bet. Well, okay, so I really wanted to ask this. So we talked about the decision. You were, like, I really want to build something with this, right? And you go to say, I'm giving a talk at, you know, I'm giving a public speech, which is like, when you first told that story, I thought you were saying, like you went on, like, Instagram Live, and that was, like, your first day. No, so I have to know what that was like. So there's like, 250 people in this room, and you're like, I imagine, like, getting ready to walk out. Like, so did you like, prepare a talk? Like, did you have like, notes? Like, what was it like? Yeah, so I, uh, well, let me give you a little context. So I went, I went to therapy, and I hated it, and saw four or five therapists, and was like, like, whatever. And then I went to this guy named Matt Quackenbush, and he was so good man, like, no pen and paper wasn't taking notes. Didn't ask me how many hours a night I was sleeping, like we're just talking. And he opened up about some anyway, he opened me up, and I told him what happened and and he said, Mason, no one would blame you if if you drank yourself to death or wanted to kill yourself, which took me by surprise. I'm like, holy shit. I don't know if you can say that legally to me, but then he's like, but mace. You can help so many people, and this is an opportunity for you. And tomorrow, someone's going to lose a spouse or a son or a daughter, a niece or a nephew or a brother or a sister, and you can help all of them. And I'm like, Well, how do I like? How do I help and like? And he's like, talk about it. And so that kind of led me down the road of where we're at now is okay, well, how do I talk about it? Right? I'm like, I'll start a podcast, and then I'm out. I'm like. Also do this speaking gig. So I reached out to my buddies. I played college basketball at the school called Utah tech, and I reached out to them. I'm like, Hey, I just want to talk maybe for an hour. Can you guys help me, like, find a spot, put this together? I'm like, yeah, absolutely. So they, like, just they found the place and the room, and they help, like, get the word out, which was very nice of them. But no, like, Dan, yeah. Like, you're right. Like, I showed up to this thing, not knowing how many people will come, or if anyone will come. And so I get there. I get there about 30 minutes early, and it's just me couple buddies. And then people start trickling in. I'm like, okay, and and more people start trickling in. And then I did pretty cool. And by the time we start going like it is a full room, yeah, it was really cool. And a lot of people needed that night, because I got pretty specific about what happened that night, and my parents and my in laws and my brothers and sisters, I think they they needed to hear it too, like, because we're no one was talking about it, and my whole family, no, how did I feel? Like that was just a big, monumental moment for a lot of people to start talking about it, and then the reaction surprised me with being asked to keep talking. And I thought I was just going to relate to people in grief, but I've talked to sports teams, agencies, construction companies. I've spoken to the most random group of people you would think of. I didn't, I didn't really expect that at
11:30 all. I mean, it's so interesting, right? Because I saw you, so I saw you on stage at like, a business event, and there's like 1500 I mean, everyone's in suits, right? Which is not how I literally had to have someone tie my tie there, like, I don't know how to tie time. So it's like I was feeling very out of place that whole week, or whatever I was at this thing, and you got up on stage, you're basically dressed the way you dress right now. And I was like, Oh my God, a real person. Thank God. You know, I was like, please Jesus, like and thank you for that. But I was very impressed with, like, your ability to just have that conversation on stage, because you're right that, like, we don't normally talk about grief. Generally, we almost never talk about it in front of a group of people. It's like a very abnormal in that. And JP, even, like everyone else was talking about business, at least the talks I saw, it was so it was such a weird, yeah, I felt it too. I'm like, Dude, what? Why am I here? And like, this is a business. But I it was you because, kind of because what you mentioned, where it's like, I was like, Oh, this, a lot of the, a lot of this doesn't really matter, right? Or, like, most of this doesn't really matter, right? Like, and it really made me kind of feel that in that moment. That's where I was, like, I really wanted to have you on the show. So okay, so I know we're, we're coming up on time, and I want to keep you super late, but I'm curious for people, well, let's talk about the speaking do you view this as a business? Like, is the speaking thing? The podcast is a business for you? Or, like, Where does this fit in your life? Like, do you want people to do you want to have a career as a speaker? Where do you see this going? If any, I just have this weird thing with guilt and making money off of it, yeah, which is not a problem podcasting, because you don't make any money on your podcast.
13:25 I lose money every month with my podcast. Well, not me too public speaking. I don't know why it took me so long, but I just flipped it into a nonprofit. So all the money, all the money I raised from public speaking, I gave away to someone at the end of my speaking year, which for me, that's july 25 so every so that's the beginning, and then that next July 25 that would be one year of me speaking, whatever money I raise, I would give to someone, that's kind of what I'm doing. So I don't know. I don't know, dude, and it's been so hard because so many people have been so nice to me about this is how you start a business, is what you could do about and I'm just, I don't, I that's not, that's not what I want to do. Yeah, I don't even have ads I get. I mean, I used to, but I don't do ads for my podcast anymore. We just hit record. I talked to this person, we shut it down, and we're done. I mean, it's hard to have a podcast where someone's like, opening up about the worst thing that ever happened, and you're like, mattress Jimmy John. Like, okay, now, Samantha, tell us about your dead daughter. Like, yes, I'm not doing that.
14:33 No, my long term plan is my dad was a therapist, and I got my bachelor's degree in psychology, so I want to do a master's program and become like a certified grief counselor therapist. Yeah, that that's kind of my long term goal. I have to go back to school. I'm trying to apply in January, but, yeah, it's just podcasting and public speaking kind of until hopefully I can. I think I can do a master's program. I don't know. Maybe I can't yet. Why wouldn't you? Be able to my brain. Man, is just, Oh, your brain. I still have some, some grief fog going on and, yeah, I can see me waking up on a Wednesday like, Fuck this. I'm not going to program you. Just kind of like, leave a note with, like, the registrar and be like, Look, if I, if I, like, unenroll from school, just give it 72 hours, yeah, I'll be back, you know, three days and, yeah, the other Mason will be back, yeah, but no, I mean, but I get that, dude, because it's, like, it must be, because you were saying, like, it's, it's different depending on the day, right? It's up and down. So it's, it must be at least a little daunting to think about, like, Well, I gotta show up every day, and I gotta have homework, and I gotta have all that stuff. I get that, yeah, yeah, for sure, but I think I can do it so but that's kind of my long term plan. I hope, hope to become like a certified, licensed therapist one day. I think
15:50 that's beautiful, man. You clearly have a knack for it. I mean, it's funny, you mentioned the therapist that made the biggest impact on you was specifically not you. Specifically is not taking notes, right? It's like the ability to just connect to another person rather than being like you're a patient. And let me put you in the box. Which box do you go into? Are you how many hours tonight are you sleeping? Are you eating? Do you get sunlight every day? Like, dude, like, what are we talking about? Right now, it's very high up on the grief pyramid. I'm in the the the Abyss part, the bottomless abyss part, that's the part. Um, that's funny, man, I mean, but it's, I think it's, yeah, I've been to a lot of therapists, and I'm guilty of, I'd, you know, if therapists, my therapists were like, my girlfriends, I'd be quite the gigolo. I like, yeah, an intense relationship, and then move on, but, but it's like, it can feel cognitive in a lot of ways. And I think the ability to just connect personally is that's not something you learn, is something you can just do or not. I mean, I really, I'm sure you people could get better at it, but, yeah, you're obviously very good at it. So, I mean, that's a huge and you have the thing where it's like, you could be like, well, your thing isn't worse than my thing, which kind of like what you're saying, the ego thing that comes into it. That's not nothing for helping people, which is, strangely enough, so I don't know, man, I think that's beautiful. I think that would be a really nice I don't know way to use what you have somehow. No, I that. I think too. Let me ask you the most important question, what's your favorite Metallica album? It's gonna
17:24 be a little controversial with the older Metallica fans, but it's the Black Album, dude. Black Album. All right, I thought you were when you said it was controversial. I was like, Oh my God. Are you gonna say that? Like, Saint anger. Like, how controversial are we going to take this podcast down, edit this part out. Hey, no, that's, that's, that's totally respectable. That's like, their big, you know, they, I thought that totally get that. That's like, you know, they get more orchestral, not quite, but you know what I mean, like, I think it's, I get that, yeah. I mean, obviously, ride the lightnings up there. Justice for All is up there. And then obviously, Master of Puppets, yeah, yeah. But St anger, nah. Like the unnamed feeling off that album. I That song is good, but I don't even know I have to listen. I think I listed that record once, and I was like, okay, best, not their best load and better. I mean, they gotta, I kind of, I'm guilty of, I mean, guilty, but I've definitely started tooting them out as I I was like, there's this band back here, and I could just kind of ignore this watch with my kids. I was like, Oh, check this out. We watched this video of Metallica. I must, must have been like, the early 90s or something, playing in the Soviet Union or something. You're playing in Russia, like a million people there, like a million. And
18:45 I was like, if fires blown up? And my son is like, what is this? And I was like, yeah. So now he is, he is like, yeah, he's he's playing drums, and he's in School of Rock, where they can join, like bands, and he wants to join the Metallica band, where they all play Metallica songs. So I'm hoping that this happens. And I'm hoping that happens too. That sounds sweet. I wish I would do it now. I mean, you, if they have adult classes, you could sign up. No, I just step right into it. I mean, all right. Mason Sawyer, obviously, we talked about the 1090 podcast, which people can find anywhere that find podcasts are sold. You're also on Instagram. It's 1090 rule, and 90 is spelled out. So the number 1090 rule on Instagram, anywhere else that people can look it up, if people want to reach out to you for speaking gigs, be on the show, anything like that. Where can people find you? No, those are our main ones. We do have a tick tock and a website and a YouTube channel. Again, if you just type in 1090 I'm sure you can find it if you scroll a little bit cool, yeah, all right. So 1090 on YouTube, tick tock, Instagram, all the things Mason Sawyer, which is spelled s, a, W, y. Er, anybody wants to Google that as well? I highly recommend that they do show's awesome. I've listened to a bunch of episodes, and it's really, really dude. It would be so easy to do a show like that and have it come across as exploitative or shitty or just not meaningful, and it's everything. But it is an incredible, incredible listen. So I highly recommend that people check it out. Jason Sawyer, thank you so much for being here. Man, this is absolute blast. Yeah, enjoy it. Thanks. Man, all right, that's gonna do it for this week's episode. Hope you got a ton out of it. I know I did. And definitely go and find Mason everywhere you can find him. He's on Instagram at 1090 rule 90 is spelled out. 10 is the number, so 1090 rule. And you can find them on Tiktok. You can find them all over the web. Just Google Mason Sawyer, and you will find them. And I really appreciate and respect people who are willing to have those difficult conversations. Someone told me once, and I'm not sure where exactly this comes from, but the quality of your life is directly related to the willingness you have to have difficult conversations. I believe that's definitely the case. And it's rare to find someone who's willing to talk about stuff like this in such an unvarnished and sort of open way. And Mason's just an awesome dude. It's just fun to spend some time with. So I hope you got a ton of that conversation, just like I did. You can always find me over at better questions.co. That's the blog where I'm writing every week about the best of what I'm learning. Please do give a subscribe there so I can stay in touch. I send exactly one email a week, and I think they're pretty cool. So I would like you to go check that out. Better questions.co. Go check it out and let me know what you think. As always, I appreciate you spending some time with me this week. I will see you next time. Have a good one you.
