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In this episode, you’ll discover… 

  • The “Spiritual Balance” secret to winning at work and at home (1:51) 
  • How spiritual warfare beefs up its attacks on you when you’re trying to do good (and how to prevent it from sabotaging your life and marriage) (6:12) 
  • Why spending time in scripture before doing anything else “primes” your brain to reach its full potential (15:15) 
  • The simple “One Verse” exercise that makes diving into scripture less overwhelming (15:55) 
  • How to keep your teenagers engaged spiritually instead of rolling their eyes whenever you bring up God (17:59) 
  • The “date-at-home” approach for connecting with your wife without going to fancy restaurants every week (23:17) 
  • How God transforms your most humiliating failures into your most epic successes (28:47) 

If you’d like to get in touch with Jamahal and learn more about The Crossroads Center, you can call him at (513) 475-5300 or visit their website at https://www.thecrossroadscenter.org/

Are you crushing it at work but struggling at home? If you want to learn how to win at home, then go to https://CoryMCarlson.com and download your free copy of “10 Ways To Win At Home.”

If you're looking for a resource to help you with these times when your work is now in your home, check out my book Win At Home First on Amazon. Forbes Magazine rated it one of 7 books everyone on your team should read.

Read Full Transcript

Welcome to the win at home first podcast. I'm your host, Cory Carlson. This podcast is where we talk about how successful business leaders win, not only at work, but also at home. On this podcast, we will go behind the scenes with great leaders to hear stories of how they win. Thank you for listening and on to today's episode.

(00:26): Hello, this is Corey today's episode. Jamal Boyd is an inspiring one today. He CEO of crossroads, a nonprofit that helps with mental health and addictions, but just eight years ago, he had a minimum wage job just trying to make ends meet was finding a loom cans and selling them because he's been unemployed for a couple of years. So great story, how he remained patient, how remain calm. He's a very strong man of faith is you'll hear throughout different scripture references. He has, Hey, Allie leads well at home.

(00:55): And then we have a great discussion about the things that they've done to retain their employees. So we, we cover home. We cover work. It's a great episode. Jamal's is a very inspiring individual though, on to today's episode. Hello, you're listening to the winter home first podcast today. I'm joined by Jamal Boyd and he is CEO of crossroads and nonprofit focused on helping with mental health and addictions and helping people just get back in the right direction. He's married, he's got three kids and he is winning both at work and winning at home and want to invite them on the podcast today to share. He's got some great story going from for-profit world now, CEO of a nonprofit and just those dynamics and just a strong man in his faith. So Jamal, thank you very much for being on the podcast today.

(01:46): Thank you Corey, for having me to be a part of it's, they're very honored and humbled to be here. Jamal, what is that key trait to win at work? And when at home Spiritual balance, man, you know, I, I attribute any success to the Lord. First of all, because it is for his glory that, you know, we do what we do and I have a foundational devotional that I try to live by, but also share with folks around, you know, God's agenda, which is bigger than my agenda, but that's focused out of Matthew 6 33, where that scripture says seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto me. So, you know, the things that I aim to do every day to win at home and at work are focused around God telling me what I'm supposed to be doing and providing every resource for me to do that and be successful in not saying that I get it right every day, man. But you know, if I can focus on that scripture and live that out every day, 99% of the time, I'll, I'll be successful in both of those spaces.

(02:56): Matthew 6 33 is one of my favorite as well. You said the word spiritual balance. I mean, what do I guess, what did that mean? As opposed to saying strong, spiritual or strong in your faith? You had a strong, I guess conviction, you said that were spiritual balance. So just curious if I'm missing something even in that word. Yeah.

(03:16): So the, the spiritual balance piece for me is being able to understand, you know, first I'll say, you know, putting the whole Bible together, you know, not just grabbing scripture, making it, you know, applicable to the certain same situation, but the Bible teaches us that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and spirits and principalities. And in that, that spiritual balance is important because we are fighting against self every day. And you know, we want to do what's right by the Lord. That's why I say I don't get it right every day. But you know, sometimes the flesh will creep up and try to take over, you know, and we also, I think in that struggle against, you know, different spirits, you know, if we're not functioning in his spirit, we're functioning in another spirit. So that spiritual balance for me is being able to understand what God says that we fight against, but also understanding what he wants to do through us. And when you are able to deal more to the spirit that is within him, you know, I think that that's where you win because when you're out of balance, you're off balance and you have to understand where that spiritual balance comes from to get you reset. Again,

(04:41): I heard the illustration said once before, like spiritual balance and cause you said, you know, off balance is driving with a flat tire. You're just, you're off bound. You're just kind of wobbling through the day. You're wobbling through life. You're just not all,

(04:57): I think you either intentionally or unintentionally yield to that other spirit or those other spirits that take you out of that balance space, that the Lord would have you to function in. And it impacts, you know, your interactions, your functionality, the work that you do, or how you go about doing it because you then, you know, there's a number of things that occur, I think, and I know I can speak from experience. You know, you try to get the glory that belongs to God, you know, or you try to carry out things on your own. And there's, you know, the scriptures replete with things that I try to live by, you know, John 15 five is another one that I love, you know, it is that he is divine. I am the branch abiding me as I abide in you and you will bear much fruit. And in that, apart from him, we can do nothing. Right? So that means that I need him for everything. So that spiritual connects there for me as well, because I know that if I'm disconnected from him because of my attitude or my sin or whatever it might be, then I'm off bounds. I'm out of kilter. I can't bear the fruit that he wants me to bear because I'm in a space that he's never intended for me to be in.

(06:15): I'm very good. Holly and I had some breakthrough in our marriage years ago. I'm not even, I mean, I don't know, five, 10 years ago. And we really started learning and understanding spiritual warfare. As you made that comment Jamal about, you know, the battle is not against flesh as Paul talks about. I think a lot of times, if I would go on a trip or things would just seem to not go well at home, you know, Holly and I could get mad at each other. She could get mad at me because I went on this trip, but we started learning about spiritual warfare. It is unbelievable how things happen when one is out doing some good. It seems that at home, the dishwasher breaks or, and I know maintenance, I know stuff happens and I'm not necessarily saying that the devil makes stuff break, but it is so interesting how things just go array and you know, early in our marriage, they call it, I'd get, get mad at each other. And then the breakthrough has been that, no, it's the not Megan's flesh. There's some other stuff going on here. And let's just realize that and come together and fight it together as opposed to each other.

(07:19): Well, you know, one of the things that I've experienced and learned in this process, men of trying to be, you know, again, successful at home and professionally, it is that the devil is very cunning and how he tries to distract us from the things that God wants us to enjoy. Because God says, I came that you might have life and have it more abundantly. And the devil's job is to seek movie, may devour, kill, steal, and destroy that's his job. But God said that, you know, we have victory over there, right? But the marital issues or the car breaking down, all those things are distractions. And again, like you said, not necessarily meaning that the devil controls how those things happen, but we have to be mindful. I think of what his job is to distract us from enjoying what God told us to enjoy.

(08:18): So yeah, you know, when things are going great for one of you, you're the devil because of what he did in the garden, where Eve is going to attack maybe the woman or tack you and try to get you to focus on things that you should be enjoying. You know, it's like you go on vacation, you supposed to be enjoying being away in the sand and the beach and the sun and you know, all of that. But the argument breaks out about not, you know, doing something because you took too long to get dressed up in this. Like, no God wanted you to enjoy being away with each other. But the devil was using these circumstances to try to drive the wedge away from the moment that God prepared for you to enjoy it. So it happens. But you know, I think we have to be smarter than a fifth grader as they say.

(09:04): And for me, it's just being able to dial back and rely on the word, put on the whole armor of God that you might be able to live, stand. Cause you know, the attacks are going to come. So if you notice they're going to come, try to be smarter than what his tactics are because you've already gotten the victory and, you know, be able to say to the wife or, or, you know, the children, not now, we're not going, that's not even going to penetrate this moment where we're supposed to be enjoying the gifts of God.

(09:33): Jamal. When do you find your quiet time in the day? Obviously you spend time in the word. And so what does that look like? What's a rhythm that has you have found to be successful for you,

(09:42): Man, you know, and I, it's a funny thing, but it's a reality when I'm in the shower, men are in the bathroom. So like I have my am devotions when I'm up, you know, early in the morning and get a little bit of word and prayer and FA you know, kind of set the tone for the day, but that's my quiet time. Like nobody's around, I'm in the bathroom, you know, I'm getting shaved and showered and all of that stuff. And you know, that is my time of peace, you know, for about 45 minutes to an hour or so. And you know, that really sets my, gives me my space for the day. And, you know, I notice a difference to Corey, like if I'm rushed or, you know, it's on a weekend and I'm not dedicating that same amount of time that might do during the week, the days flow and feel a little bit different.

(10:35): Absolutely. So before you do that, quiet time shower, get ready. No one around is kind of all quiet before you dive into that. You're reading some scripture. Yeah. I mean, every day I had a devotional that I read and I'm a fan of our daily bread just to hear, you know, the different scriptures and recommendations that they have through that. And a lot of times it's very parallel with either something that I've experienced or something I've gone through, or again, it sets a different tone. And I've been doing that since man, I, for as long as I can remember, it's been awhile that I've used that con kind of as a catalyst for some devotion and some prayer and some word, but you know, the thing that I can honestly say I do need to do more of is really reading and divert, you know, delving into the word of God in terms of some things that where you read the whole chapter and you've learned and gone back and looked at the context of that time, but then how it applies to your life or your circumstance, or now I just recently did that with the book of revelations, but just off of a whim.

(11:52): And it amazing how I was challenged by so much in reading the book of revelations. And it sparked from a social media conferences and it sparked from someone saying, you know, I know that we're in the, in towns, but where are we in the book of revelation? And I said, wow, you know, that's kind of an interesting question. Let me jump in. I'm sitting on my deck, I'm having a glass of wine, I'm smoking a cigar. And I'm like, this is a good, quiet time for me to read the word, not being jumped into the word. And a man, it just blew my mind court on a quick read and I've read the whole book, but it was just certain parts that jumped out to me about, you know, life and where we are right now. And what God's word is and how that applies to our current time and how gracious God is. I mean, net, if I could pull one word out of revelations is Greece and how Greece, how much grace got extended. Even up until when he said, you know what, that's enough is done. He's given us all so much grace to get it right. And we don't have time, you know, but that's what I learned from that. But that's what I need to do more as it relates to my devotion.

(13:09): Yeah. Doing that deep study is so helpful. I love the days I do that, where I'm reading scripture, then I've got my phone next to me and I'm going to look at all the different translations. And then I'm either reading some commentary and I really enjoy those. But when you share with anyone thinking about quiet time or expanding, quiet time, that's, that's what they think they got to do every single day. And it would be great if we could do it every single day, because the days I do it, I love it. I mean, it's awesome, but you know, that's an hour. I mean, it could be an hour and a half. I mean, one benefit out of 2020 I had was I had a lot of those hour and a half, two hours studies. I had no meetings to go to, but doing a study whenever that is, man, it is nice to get some of that in, but for sure, just starting the day with the scripture, I had a mentor share with me the idea.

(13:56): I used to go to the gym, work out, and then I would do my quiet time. And I still majority of time do it that way you sit there. The one thing I've done differently is now before I go work out, I'll read a couple verses whether it's through a devotion or through like YouVersion app, what happens is while I'm working out, I maybe listen to a podcast whether it's or music, but that verse still keeps kind of ringing through my head. And man, that is seek first the kingdom. I mean, the first thing we should do instead of looking at Facebook, social media, whatever it's grabbed that verse. And what's God talking to you about today and how's that, how are you going to apply that in your life?

(14:34): You know, it's just like looking at your phone to figure out where you supposed to be for today. When you seek first, the kingdom, you make his agenda, your agenda, you make his priorities, your priorities, and you trust him. As he says in that latter part of the verse for every resource that you're going to need to be successful. And I think that that's what we negate because we, you know, again, we either turnover, pillow, talk to the wife, or, you know, you reach out to dad or mom or a friend that you trust and you, you know, those are our sources for the stuff that they can provide that he can, you know, and that it's out of order. It's not right. You know, and even like you said, you know, in terms of the going to the gym part, it's, you know, what's more important first before I start, my day is getting to the gym or is it getting that little scripture that is now embedded in me for the day? And while I'm at the gym, it is resonating or, you know, revealing some things to me that helped me to, like you said, be successful both personally. And otherwise

(15:44): I do this challenge at business leaders every couple months. And we just had a call before you and I got on and you know, I think there's like 12 business leaders that are on it. One of them is a married couple and they're talking about how they have a date coming up. It's like a full day date. And they're like, you know, the kids are going to be at school and, you know, they took, they organized it and they were talking about how they don't go on a lot of dates. I said, that's why you don't go on dates because you need the full day to do a date. And it goes a little bit to how some of us view scripture reading, getting the word is we think perfection, like I've got to have, if I'm going to do the word, I better have it perfectly.

(16:23): I've got to have quiet time for an hour and a half on the deck, you know, or it's gotta be in the morning just as this couple have seen about the date. It's gotta be, you know, if we're going to do a date and it's like, no, it's progress over perfection. So grab a verse, do a verse for a few weeks, a few quarters, and then maybe do a deeper dive into a chapter. But I think so many people get intimidated because they think of what the end goal should be. And they forget about one yard, two or three yard at a time.

(16:51): And you know, that, that applies to the struggle with people accepting Christ as their savior too, you know, because they feel, we feel that you have to be perfect or you got to stop doing this to get to him, or, you know, before you do that, you want to stop or put those things aside. And it's no, it's a step in the direction of righteousness and accepting Christ as your savior. And, you know, he wants you to come as you are so that he can work out and show you why you shouldn't be doing certain things or how to apply to his word to your walk in. But we put us in the mix and say, you know, no, I, I want to do this for him. And it's like, no, I've already done this for you at the cross, which means it, that's why you can come the way that you are so that we can fix was broken and you don't have to fix what's broken because I already had, and helping people understand that, you know, in terms of not just reading the word, but you know, at a higher level, I think around the whole piece of south salvation is important.

(17:59): Jamal, you have three kids, 17, 13, and 10. So great ages to roll your eyes. When you talk about God, great. Ain't just to get frustrated, wanting to do so. How have you led your house with faith? Have you encouraged them to read scripture or pray or whatever that looks like? Because I know a lot of listeners and including myself, it's some days I get a write and they want to talk about it other days. I totally miss. And they're annoyed and you're ready to move on to some other topic. How have you done it in your home?

(18:34): A number of ways first, a lot of prayer, man, because it's, you know, it's hard, especially having children at that age range, keeping them engaged spiritually, but you know, again, live by and die by Joshua 24 15, you know, as for me and my house, we are going to serve the Lord, you know, and whether it was my children or, you know, when my mother was living with us God rest her soul. You know, we have, I have as the spiritual leader of my home, the accountability to make sure that the Lord is in the home and that the Lord is leading the firm and that the Lord guides what happens in the home and, you know, for years and, you know, at the birth and raising of our children, when we were in Philadelphia, we had a fairly strong church foundation, you know, and, and spiritual foundation and that good word preached and, you know, good process for families and individuals at our church.

(19:41): So our children have always been exposed to a good strong foundation spiritually. And, you know, we nurture that in my home, you know, and one of the things that I, you know, as an individual live by, and I thank God for the stewardship over my family and not ownership over my family and also trust, like I said, the John 15 five latter part of that, where it says apart from knew I could do nothing, but Philippians four 13, you know, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. So just making that my personal mission, one that I would serve God individually and be the example that my family, wife and children need to see, but also don't just lip it, but living, you know, so in that my children, you know, have they know where we are going to be on Sunday. That's, non-negotiable, you know, they know what that means in terms of them not just going to church, but getting something from church and bringing something to the worship experience as well.

(20:46): So, you know, the youth services, they're engaged, they're, they're ushers, you know, at church. So they're involved not just in, what am I learning? What am I bringing to the church, but how do I serve? So I think that bigger than us, they see that they get it, you know, and then they're involved in a church where other children, their ages are engaged as well. So I think that that helps a tremendous amount Corey, because we can't do it alone, you know, and they don't want to just hear the message from mom and dad. But I think because we have that, you know, circle of support and then there's also, you know, we've made it cool to be Christian, you know, is like not, we've made it. God has made a cool person. It's not like we're looked at as outcast because, you know, we were trying to dress differently or talk differently or be different.

(21:41): No, we are who we are, but we are who we are in Christ. And it doesn't change the way that we dress. It doesn't change, you know, change the way that we talk or interact with folks. We can have a civil conversation and agree to disagree, but we're going to promote the fact that the Lord is our shepherd. We shall not one, you know, and all of those things that are in that scripture as well. So you know that, that's, I think the answer to your question, but man, you know, it, it's not easy and I'll say, you know, it ain't easy. No,

(22:11): No, it is not at different times For sure. I just, I'm just kind of laughing because even just even this morning and kids don't have school, so I thought I'll take advantage of this, man. That's not what they want to do on their day off, but a previous conversation you and I talked about just you and your wife, very good about dates. What does that look like? As far as your intentionality with keeping your guys's marriage and,

(22:39): Oh man, again, you know, a lot of prayer and it just, I think growing together and understanding the space that each other is in is important with that, man, because you know, one of the things that I have always been an outgoing person, you know, Mr. Socialite and, you know, work the room and that all of that kind of stuff, my wife is the total opposite. You know, she could care less about certain things or, you know, is less engaging and less is genuine. She's not a small talk person, but you know, it's just like understanding those different dynamics play into the whole dating part. And you know, one of the many, many blessings that came out of the COVID era was that, you know, we can do a lot at home and, you know, just be okay with, you know, what we do within our space.

(23:30): So, you know, again, that, that, you know, what I could to make home as comfortable, you know, for that, you know, just if it's, you know, we know the week is winding down, we have everything that we need in the house Friday night looks like this Saturday night looks like this and prepare for church on Sunday. You know, it's like, that's our date and we are okay with it. You know, it doesn't have to be that we're running out the rubies, you know, steakhouse every week because we got three kids that's expensive, but we've learned if we buy this stuff and she's a great cook and we have this and she's like, what do you want Friday night? Are we going to order pizza? And then we just Netflix and sit on the couch and vege, or, you know, the kids are in their rooms or they're with it.

(24:18): That's date night for us, that's dating for us. And then, you know, when we are out, we've planned for that. And we enjoy that too. But you know, it's just the little stuff that you pay attention to and you build around what's important mutually, you know, not one-sided lopsided, you know, because like I said, if I want to go out and say, Hey, you know, you want to go out and she'll accommodate, you know, but it's, it's gotta be neutral and it's got to be mindful of the things I think that are important to her and to eyes so that we're both not seeking something that you know, is uncomfortable or unreasonable.

(25:01): Yeah. God made everyone opposite to track. I mean, the, the extrovert loves the introvert and the Holly and I am the expert. I want to, I kind of want to bar hop or restaurant hop. I love going to one and then go and get another drink and another one, and she didn't need to do that. And, and so it's not an either, or it's a both. And just like you said, we, we have my nights where we kind of get to go bounce around and then there's other nights where it's let's, she w wants to watch a show. Right. So doing a little bit of both of those Jamal part big part of my story, a phrase that I heard, you know, years ago was you need a hand over your story for a greater story. I mean, I need a hand over my small kind of Cory story to something bigger that God was doing. When I say that phrase, do you, Jamal, is there a time in your life where you had a handover Jamal's story, whether it's your career, whether it was something you were doing that you're like, ah, I gotta hand this over and be obedient to what God's calling me to do.

(26:02): Oh, man, it has happened more than once, but it happened years ago. And I think I was at a space where God had given me options and I didn't know which option to take. And I wanted to do the right thing because of what the options look like. And I had to step out on faith and it's this crazy story, or a man, I was looking at job transition and I had about three or four offers on the table. And one was having a job working for the state of Pennsylvania with a three hour commute attached to it. Either way I had to, I was living in Philly, needed to be in Harrisburg if I took this job and it was an hour and a half, either on a train and a car every day. So three hours of my day would be consumed circumstance.

(26:55): Right? Then I had an offer for a job working in a hospital health system, making more money than working for the state, but the scope of responsibility was smaller. And I, and a couple other opportunities that I don't need to mention, but it was just so interesting. So I prayed about it, which, you know, wasn't, patternicity for how we do, you know, normally we chase the money and the prestigious title and all of those things, but I prayed and said, Lord, I'm struggling with this decision. Let me be where I can have the greatest impact for you. That was a pivotal part for me. And went to church the next day. And they were having a black art sale and guy who's selling the art good friend of mine. He says, Hey man, I got a picture. I want you to sit, walk over to where he shows me this picture.

(27:54): And a picture had a woman standing over the ocean on God's hand. And at the bottom, the caption says, stepping out on faith. I bought the picture. I think it was about 300 bucks. I didn't even have the money like that, but I bought the picture for our home. And still had that picture till this day. But it was me stepping out on faith and God gave me my decision to take the job in Harrisburg because I went to take a job that allowed me to have an impact for God in the state of Pennsylvania, touching the lives of 18 million people versus a couple thousand people. And in the role was able to be successful, you know, doing many things, but that was one of those points where it got said, you know, give it to me. And if you give it to me, I'll show you why he gave it to me. Now a couple years into that job, I got laid off. But if I had not been laid off, I wouldn't be sitting in the seat of a CEO role right now. And that was another, you know, at being laid off, you know, one of those situations where, you know, had to allow his story to be my story so that it could be a blessing for many who needed to hear that story.

(29:12): Yeah. I love where I love that. Where are you stepping out on faith? It's just a, it's just a good life challenge each day, each day, every day, as we think through cause so easy, get comfortable in the known. Thank you very much for listening to today's episode. I hope you are joining us so far before we go back to the rest of this episode. I want to share with you my book when at home first, some of you have read it. So thank you very much for others of you. You have not. And I encourage if you're for a resource to help you with these times of your work is now in your home and your home is now in your work and what this looks like. This book is being helpful to many leaders like you whores magazine said it was one of seven books. Everyone on your team should read in the book is broken up into four different sections to help you versus about you. Understand who you are. The second is marriage in ideas and tips to help with your marriage. Third is parenting and the last is work. So these four different sections to help you recalibrate during this time and to help move forward. So if you are needing additional resource, I encourage you to check out my book went home first. It is available on Amazon as well as audible and so on to the rest of the episode. Thank you very much

(30:32): Back to the, just that whole story for you. Stepping out on faith. That was why was that the Pennsylvania, why to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, when that answer out of everything, where was the faith in that?

(30:44): Because it was an opportunity for me to, like I said, be at a place where I could represent the Lord more impactfully then in, within the full walls of a hospital, you know, and being able to work at a state level, the representative for him in that seat, in which I said working for the department of health and the governor of the state at the time gave me a platform to serve differently. And also the scope of work was working with, you know, all of the, I was the director for the office of health equity and dealing with the underserved underrepresented and, you know, population who had a greater need than, again, those individuals, I may have been working with a foreign hospital system, a gave me an opportunity to serve differently, great and represent him at a higher level for, you know, again, 18 and a half million plus people versus a couple of thousand people.

(31:55): And that that's part of the reason why that went out and, you know, again, it it's a blessing to be able to help people get insured, you know, make sure that they had food on the table connected to programs and resources that they would not have been connected to if it weren't for the work that came out of the office in which I led, you know, and then they connected to a lot of national platforms as well, because we created a lot of things that led to the affordable care act during that time. So, you know, it was just that ability to trust God for, I got something greater than the couple of opportunities and the options that you had, you know, as a good challenge to have, but let me see which one you're thinking you want to chase the money. Are you going to taste the opportunity?

(32:46): I like that prayer you had going into those options, have a, let me know where I can be of greater impact God. And you know, it looks like Harrison Harrisburg, one out, which is a neat story. So Jamal, I guess going back to that two and a half year span where you were unemployed, you were obedient, went to Harrisburg. There's listeners. There's been moments in my life where I have been in that waiting room and it gets frustrating. So what, what's your wisdom? How did you handle those two and a half years where you're like, Hey God, I, I went to Harrisburg, like you said, and I'm there and now I'm fired. This is awful. I shouldn't have listened to your, where did I go wrong? So what's some of the wisdom that you got during that two and a half year years that you could share with just that listener who is either unemployed or stuck in a job that they just aren't satisfied with. And the old statement of, you know, God's time is on our timing, you know, which is obviously be very fun,

(33:49): Man. I tell you is a couple of words that I use and I am not saying I was perfect at all, man, but it just blew my mind how much peace God gave me. So I would say peace first, but prayer, you know, and confidence and trust were things that resonated throughout that entire time. And it built my faith. The first phone call I made when the HR person said, you know, there's no, we no longer need your services. You know, all of the things that they say, you know, legally and all as I was on my way back to catch the train back to Philadelphia. Cause I, you know, I was very cynical at the time. I said, well, you know, they did it on a Monday and I was off the Friday before I said, well, you guys could have called me at home and not made me waste an hour and a half catching the train up here this morning.

(34:47): I said, I could have driven up and got my stuff. I said, but I'll come back and pick up my stuff later. But I called my wife and I told her what was going down. And she said, you know, she starts crying. She's pregnant with my youngest son at the time. And I said to her, she said, you know, why you and not me? And I said, God gave me that verbatim. I say, God gave me that job. He'll give me another one. We'll be fine. We won't miss a beat. God honored that throughout that entire two and a half years bills were paid a little bit late, but they were paid. I had a part-time job. I went from making a six figure salary to $7 and 50 cents an hour at a part-time job at Saks fifth avenue off Saks fifth avenue. And I collected aluminum cans and sold those things.

(35:35): And I hosted parties and events and did what I needed to do to take care of my family, but God provided. But he gave me peace. During that time I applied for over a thousand jobs, no exaggeration and probably got 10% of a response rate. If I went on a hundred interviews as being generous in that timeframe I even had during that process, Corey, where I interviewed for one job and the person who interviewed me, sent me the email that she was supposed to send to the team that says he's overqualified. We can't give them the opportunity because we think he'll either move out or move up after we've given him the opportunity. And you know, I kindly responded the way that the Lord wanted me to another way my flesh wanted me to and said, thank you very much for your transparency, but I don't think that this message was from me and the HR person that, you know, she apologized and everything.

(36:31): But you know, the Lord taught me so much during that time and allowed me to only, not only, you know, grow spiritually, but you know, learn humility, learn patience. And ironically, you know, I was a part of a healthcare of a professional affiliation of one of my mentors who just recently passed and said we, well, a couple of things happened. The Lord saw fit through some friends and they say, well, you need to go to this conference. And I said, but I'm broke. I don't have money. You know, I, what do I look like? Like you said, going on a trip and I'm unemployed and you know, how's that going to look to my wife and kids? And they said, no, we'll pay for everything. We'll pay for you to get here. You need to be at this conference, go to the healthcare conference.

(37:15): And my former boss who was starting a new job, said, I'm building a team, need to talk to you about an opportunity. And my mentor said, you need to hire him. He said, let me get you out to Ohio in a couple months. And you take a look at this opportunity, if, is what you think it is, then let's talk further, flew me out. You know, I'm thinking they're talking trash, get to a couple months back. I said, I haven't heard anything. So I let it go. Finally gets to me and flies me out to Ohio. I come and check out the opportunity a month goes by. And then he says, are you serious about this job? I said, yeah, never lived outside of Philadelphia before. But with, from July, I'm sorry, from June to July, everything changed in a heartbeat. And I got an offer the day before my wife's birthday in July and was in Ohio by August 13th to start a new role and relocate my family. So all that to say, you know, again, during that process, God gave me so much to learn, but so much peace even being laid off and just trusting God for the opportunity that he had for me that will come. I didn't know when, but it's like soon as August 13th, it, everything that wasn't right. This.

(38:41): And so you make in seven half dollars an hour, aluminum cans that's that four or five years ago is that right? Eight plus years because I moved, I moved in 2013. So it's been about eight years since that experience, right? Years ago, minimum wage collecting cans and then fast forward, and now able to be CEO of crossroads

(39:06): As got that's got, I mean, you know, it went I've even shared that I was just talking to one of my team members here. You know, I, at that time had a credit score of about 3 15, 3 50, something like that. And over the course of time and getting those things cleaned up and correct that, you know, 800 plus credit score now, you know, not bragging about that, but just, you know, again, giving God the glory for how he can take whatever your situation is and in his timing, turn it around or put it where it's supposed to be at that time. You know? And you throw nothing out because God is not a God of coincidence, everything that is supposed to happen the way that it does happen. And, you know, again, we can't just believe part of the Bible or make the scripture convenient.

(39:59): He says that, you know, all things work together. So, you know, if it's the flat tire, the lay off the $7 and 50 cents an hour, three 15 credit score, all things work together for the good of those work on affordances purpose. Those who love me, love them, you know? And that is, I think what my life's testimony is, all of those things led to the right now, you know, and not that God is finished with me, but I wouldn't be a CEO being able to do the things that I've done had I not had those experiences that brought me here.

(40:34): That's a great story. What is that high level overview of crossroads, just for the listeners who are familiar, we'll put the crossroads in the show notes and help point people in the right direction, but just how would you describe the crossroads for the listener?

(40:49): So the crossroads center is a mental behavioral health and substance use disorder facility that provides both outpatient and residential care and treatment to those in need. And summary for me is we, our tagline rather is helping people turn their lives around, but the sub tagline for me and for our team is that we save lives every day. And we take it that seriously, the work that we do, because every person that comes to us at their most vulnerable point has need. And if we can help meet that need that's our goal every day. But in when that need is not met, it could be life or death for someone and, you know, consciously I can't sleep well, knowing that we didn't provide the need that someone had and it led to their fatalities. So we take seriously the work that we do, we're ranked number two in the state by newsweek.com as one of the top drug and alcohol treatment centers out of 300 that they ranked in the nation. So we take again a very humble appreciation of the work that we do. And we're also number one on help.org, who is a credible website agency that is used to drive people who seek the type of treatment and care that we provide to top rated agencies. And we're pleased and humble that we're ranked number one by them as well.

(42:27): Well, congrats on those rankings. Nothing I thought I was interested in our first conversation is you're in the healthcare space, which was an industry that was hit hard with that great resignation. It's hard on the employees and there's always an opportunity to maybe go somewhere else, make more money. But yet you said the crossroads has not been affected by their great resignation. Matter of fact, your rent retention has been very strong throughout all this. So what are you guys doing that is maybe different than other folks? And we can learn from you.

(42:58): Well, we've had turnover, but it hasn't been to the degree of certain other organizations in our industry. And similarly, but what we've been able to do successfully is, and I live by this motto is take care of the people who take care of the people. You know, one of the things we've learned during the pandemic is that, you know, everyone has been hit no matter what your economic status is financially or socially or mentally or otherwise. And what we've done as an organization is, you know, pay attention to just like, like I said, about the marriage, you know, you pay attention to the things that are important. And we listen and we were able to respond. And one of the things is CEO as my executive team, I challenged us to make sure that we were making the right decisions and the right decisions may not be the best decisions for everybody because you can't please everybody.

(44:01): But I sleep comfortable by making the right decision. And one of the, several of those right decisions where one, you know, what do our people need to be able to provide care and treatment to people in need? They want secure. They want, you know, to make sure that they have outlet. So, you know, we noticed through our, in our paid for employee assistance services to be ramped up so that they had a go-to for either counseling therapy, benefits and things that they needed from a neutral organization where they can get the help that they needed for that. We also looked at finances, man, because I did instead of hosting a Christmas or holiday event, last year, we gave away $25 gift cards. And then the distribution of $25 gift cards. I had a number of my team members come and say, thank you. You put meals on our table for the holiday.

(44:54): I said, what a $25 gift card, you know, and understanding the significance of that. It translated to we have within our organization, people who are the working for, or who are one paycheck or a tire, you know, flat tire or HPAC system going out away from being on the street. I can't consciously accept that knowing that our organization has a reserve. So we looked at how can we make this right for our team members financially? And we provided cost of living allowance. We also did a vacation pay out to get people, to take their time and embrace their wellness, but also cash out on what was being banked because you were working so hard that you didn't get to take the time. We just recently did a compensation analysis and did another equity market adjustment for all of our eligible team members. So looking at those things are what helped us to be successful around retention as well as recruitment. And again, I think, you know, by doing the right thing, we've carved a niche for ourselves. If you will, that's a little different than what a lot of employers in other CEOs are doing.

(46:10): I just love to take care of the people who take care of the people and they felt seen and heard by you. They just, weren't a kind of a number and where some people were cutting costs during all of this, you actually were spending more money, elevating salaries doing the $25 times X amount of employees. Others are cutting costs in order to preserve, you actually were spending money in the fact of this is going to help our organization. Yeah.

(46:34): Better without them. We can't do what we need to do for the people that we're to serve. So you got to take care of the people who take care of the people. And we also take care of the people, but why would in a most critical time where we need essential workers, we would lay off the clinical people in the folks that are essential to the care that we provide. And that's what I think is also now crippling and hurting our industry because of the fact that those folks that were laid off, they're saying, Hey, you know, I don't have to go back to work because my value wasn't appreciated then and there. And I could probably make more money by doing it on my own. Now that I've been awakened around my value. And there are certain things that COVID has taught me as a nurse or as a doctor that I can do this from home and enjoy a different quality of life spent with my family, you know, that kind of stuff. So that's why that was important to me.

(47:31): Yeah. Take care of the people at is for sure. Cause people will figure things out on their own. If, I mean, as they say, they don't necessarily leave a company, they leave a leader, they don't feel like their leader is helping and serving and loving them. Then they're off Jamal. This is fantastic. What is a best way for listeners to get ahold of you?

(47:53): Sure. So the best way to get in contact with me is by contacting our agency and we can always be reached at 4 7, 5 5300 and either myself or my assistant Beth hall will be more than willing to assist and help with whatever we can be of assistance with this. Great. Well, thank you very much for the conversation. I, once again, I enjoy talking to you. Nah, likewise, Corey, and please don't let this be the last compensation. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Thanks. All right. No problem.

(48:28): I want to thank you for listening to my podcast. When at home first, I am so grateful to hear from listeners like you, that this content has been helpful. So now I would love for you to pay it forward. I want to get this message in the hands of more listeners. We need leaders to be winning both at home and at work, especially during this time. So please take a minute to share this episode with somebody you think would find value in it, as well as rate and subscribe as a thank you, please visit my website@coriumcarlson.com to download a free resource that people are finding value in. Thank you very much. This is the podcast factory.com.

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